IS Bobby Mancini THE MAN?

[Original Dub]

I wouldn't call the carling cup on its own a good place to start... it'd be nice for supporters but reaching the top four is far more important if we are to attract the best players in the world.

Also, I said emulating Chelsea may be good enough for some, but I want to emulate U***d and they are MILES apart in terms of dominance and U***d have had more success since Abramovich took over... it didn't need to be that way, if they'd have just left Jose do his job... unfotunately, instability normally results in staggered success, rather than consistant success.

On the whole I think Baconface is a once in a lifetime event and a manager like that will not happen again.Someone who is more successful maybe but someone in the job for that long,I dont think it will happen again.
And winning the CC after so many years of drought would be the start of a journey that hopefully will take us to the top.
And for me I am thinking that maybe getting into the CL is not the right way to go and we need the experience and education of the Europa league to start our journey.
Mancini has already failed when it comes to the CL and for me I like the EL and think it is a good competition. I would love for us to win it and I think it will give our young players like Stevie,Nedum,Micah,Vlad a good education as to what Euro comp is about and hopefully they will be coming to their peak when we qualify.
If we make it next year I'd be happy but suprised if we made it past the group stages through lack of experience and think both the team and manager need to learn more before we start trying to mix it with the big boys with no experience.
I may be wrong and we can buy players the quality that is requirred but if we are to do it with the squad we have now then I think the CC and Europa league is the way to go.

Well mate while I'm not quite as scared or threatened by Platini and co, I don't think we did that kind of spending or indeed sacked hughes to start fucking about in the Europa League... both were done to achieve champions league football as soon as possible. I know you're thinking on step by step, but I believe while it would have been nice to win it (which I think we would have done had we scored that extra goal against Hamburg), we have gained enough experience in that competition as a club.

We have players now that have plenty of champions league experience - we'll get a few more top notch ones upon qualification too - the only thing left is to experience that competition as a club.

Getting to the group stages would be vital experience and we have to do it sometime... although I think we'd have every chance of progressing further... we'll just have to wait and see, but I believe in football, you can't progress fast enough. The sooner the big stage arrives, the better and I'm also convinced we're far better equipped to qualify for the champions league because of the extra games we don't have to play in the Europa League.

[Socrates]

You cannot judge a manager's credentials for the Champions League on the basis of two or three seasons. How many times did SBF "fail" in the Champions League/ European Cup before he finally won it?

[Wonderwall]

here we go

[Rag_hater]

I wouldn't call the carling cup on its own a good place to start... it'd be nice for supporters but reaching the top four is far more important if we are to attract the best players in the world.

Also, I said emulating Chelsea may be good enough for some, but I want to emulate U***d and they are MILES apart in terms of dominance and U***d have had more success since Abramovich took over... it didn't need to be that way, if they'd have just left Jose do his job... unfotunately, instability normally results in staggered success, rather than consistant success.

On the whole I think Baconface is a once in a lifetime event and a manager like that will not happen again.Someone who is more successful maybe but someone in the job for that long,I dont think it will happen again.
And winning the CC after so many years of drought would be the start of a journey that hopefully will take us to the top.
And for me I am thinking that maybe getting into the CL is not the right way to go and we need the experience and education of the Europa league to start our journey.
Mancini has already failed when it comes to the CL and for me I like the EL and think it is a good competition. I would love for us to win it and I think it will give our young players like Stevie,Nedum,Micah,Vlad a good education as to what Euro comp is about and hopefully they will be coming to their peak when we qualify.
If we make it next year I'd be happy but suprised if we made it past the group stages through lack of experience and think both the team and manager need to learn more before we start trying to mix it with the big boys with no experience.
I may be wrong and we can buy players the quality that is requirred but if we are to do it with the squad we have now then I think the CC and Europa league is the way to go.

Well mate while I'm not quite as scared or threatened by Platini and co, I don't think we did that kind of spending or indeed sacked hughes to start fucking about in the Europa League... both were done to achieve champions league football as soon as possible. I know you're thinking on step by step, but I believe while it would have been nice to win it (which I think we would have done had we scored that extra goal against Hamburg), we have gained enough experience in that competition as a club.

We have players now that have plenty of champions league experience - we'll get a few more top notch ones upon qualification too - the only thing left is to experience that competition as a club.

Getting to the group stages would be vital experience and we have to do it sometime... although I think we'd have every chance of progressing further... we'll just have to wait and see, but I believe in football, you can't progress fast enough. The sooner the big stage arrives, the better and I'm also convinced we're far better equipped to qualify for the champions league because of the extra games we don't have to play in the Europa League.

Your'e probably right and we have to jump in the deep end.But fourth place means we have to go through qualifiers and what happened to the toffee's(I think due to lack of experience)might happen to us.
And winning the CC this year would give a lot of our lads who haven't won anything yet, that winning mentality.Its becomming even bigger IMO for that reason let alone me seeing it as a good start to the beginning of a dynasty.

[Rag_hater]

You cannot judge a manager's credentials for the Champions League on the basis of two or three seasons. How many times did SBF "fail" in the Champions League/ European Cup before he finally won it?

Yes I can.
And I've judged him to have failed.
Whether he will fail again given maybe another chance is the a point of conjecture.
But he was sacked from Inter for failing to win the CL.
Inter's board decided he wasn't the man to win them the CL so they got someone who they thought could. So it seems they made a judgement which you say they cannot.
Wrong.

[Socrates]

You cannot judge a manager's credentials for the Champions League on the basis of two or three seasons. How many times did SBF "fail" in the Champions League/ European Cup before he finally won it?

Yes I can.
And I've judged him to have failed.
Whether he will fail again given maybe another chance is the a point of conjecture.
But he was sacked from Inter for failing to win the CL.
Inter's board decided he wasn't the man to win them the CL so they got someone who they thought could. So it seems they made a judgement which you say they cannot.
Wrong.

Silly stuff making such judgements on what is essentially a knockout competition. 5 years minimum to form an opinion. Maybe you think we should get Benitez once we qualify?

[Rag_hater]

You cannot judge a manager's credentials for the Champions League on the basis of two or three seasons. How many times did SBF "fail" in the Champions League/ European Cup before he finally won it?

Yes I can.
And I've judged him to have failed.
Whether he will fail again given maybe another chance is the a point of conjecture.
But he was sacked from Inter for failing to win the CL.
Inter's board decided he wasn't the man to win them the CL so they got someone who they thought could. So it seems they made a judgement which you say they cannot.
Wrong.

Silly stuff making such judgements on what is essentially a knockout competition. 5 years minimum to form an opinion. Maybe you think we should get Benitez once we qualify?

Whether its silly or not is not the issue.
You said I can't make a decision whereas I quite obviosly can.

[Original Dub]

I wouldn't call the carling cup on its own a good place to start... it'd be nice for supporters but reaching the top four is far more important if we are to attract the best players in the world.

Also, I said emulating Chelsea may be good enough for some, but I want to emulate U***d and they are MILES apart in terms of dominance and U***d have had more success since Abramovich took over... it didn't need to be that way, if they'd have just left Jose do his job... unfotunately, instability normally results in staggered success, rather than consistant success.

On the whole I think Baconface is a once in a lifetime event and a manager like that will not happen again.Someone who is more successful maybe but someone in the job for that long,I dont think it will happen again.
And winning the CC after so many years of drought would be the start of a journey that hopefully will take us to the top.
And for me I am thinking that maybe getting into the CL is not the right way to go and we need the experience and education of the Europa league to start our journey.
Mancini has already failed when it comes to the CL and for me I like the EL and think it is a good competition. I would love for us to win it and I think it will give our young players like Stevie,Nedum,Micah,Vlad a good education as to what Euro comp is about and hopefully they will be coming to their peak when we qualify.
If we make it next year I'd be happy but suprised if we made it past the group stages through lack of experience and think both the team and manager need to learn more before we start trying to mix it with the big boys with no experience.
I may be wrong and we can buy players the quality that is requirred but if we are to do it with the squad we have now then I think the CC and Europa league is the way to go.

Well mate while I'm not quite as scared or threatened by Platini and co, I don't think we did that kind of spending or indeed sacked hughes to start fucking about in the Europa League... both were done to achieve champions league football as soon as possible. I know you're thinking on step by step, but I believe while it would have been nice to win it (which I think we would have done had we scored that extra goal against Hamburg), we have gained enough experience in that competition as a club.

We have players now that have plenty of champions league experience - we'll get a few more top notch ones upon qualification too - the only thing left is to experience that competition as a club.

Getting to the group stages would be vital experience and we have to do it sometime... although I think we'd have every chance of progressing further... we'll just have to wait and see, but I believe in football, you can't progress fast enough. The sooner the big stage arrives, the better and I'm also convinced we're far better equipped to qualify for the champions league because of the extra games we don't have to play in the Europa League.

Your'e probably right and we have to jump in the deep end.But fourth place means we have to go through qualifiers and what happened to the toffee's(I think due to lack of experience)might happen to us.
And winning the CC this year would give a lot of our lads who haven't won anything yet, that winning mentality.Its becomming even bigger IMO for that reason let alone me seeing it as a good start to the beginning of a dynasty.

Funny you should mention that the toffees went out at qualification stage, because I was going to bring up the team that beat them as a reason for just taking on the champions league asap -
Villareal: After establishing themselves in the top flight in Spain (largely due to wealthy owner I believe?), they played in the uefa cup for two seasons (winning the inter toto to get there 2nd time)... they reached semis first time and quarters the next.
In their first run at the champions league they reached the semi final and narrowly lost to Arsenal after knocking out Inter on the way.

There's no reason to think we can't achieve similar.

So in theory, I do understand that you might point out Everton's failure to qualify as being down to inexperience, but on refleciton, I'm sure you'll agree they were very unlucky to meet one of the best teams in the competition at qualification stage?

[Socrates]

Everton went on to lose in thie UEFA Cup tie as well that year so I'd just put it down to them being crap in Europe, prior to this season that is. That said, Dub's point about them being unlucky in their Champs League qualifying draw should send out an alarm bell given the seeding system that has since been introduced whereby clubs from smaller countries are now seeded to meet each other - means we will have to play someone from one of the other big leagues:O(

[Original Dub]

Everton went on to lose in thie UEFA Cup tie as well that year so I'd just put it down to them being crap in Europe, prior to this season that is. That said, Dub's point about them being unlucky in their Champs League qualifying draw should send out an alarm bell given the seeding system that has since been introduced whereby clubs from smaller countries are now seeded to meet each other - means we will have to play someone from one of the other big leagues:O(

True. One way or the other, and we all have our own fears/needs- from Platini/player patience/financial stability/finally being introduced as a top club/drawing the best players in the world/competing agains the best clubs.... the list is almost endless.... but we need to get there AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

In that regard, I'd imagine the vast vast majority would agree?

[Cityfan]

If we make it next year I'd be happy but suprised if we made it past the group stages through lack of experience and think both the team and manager need to learn more before we start trying to mix it with the big boys with no experience.
I may be wrong and we can buy players the quality that is requirred but if we are to do it with the squad we have now then I think the CC and Europa league is the way to go.

The trouble is with the Europa cup is that it is another obstacle put in the way by the big boys to stop other teams attaining parity.
It brings in little revenue.
It is played on a thursday as opposed to tue/wed therefore leaving the club less able to recover for their league commitments.
There are far more far flung teams giving longer travelling times, having a similar affect on teams.

The champions league is basically the only way of generating success even though it generates a lot of very tedious football in the early stages.

[Rag_hater]

If we make it next year I'd be happy but suprised if we made it past the group stages through lack of experience and think both the team and manager need to learn more before we start trying to mix it with the big boys with no experience.
I may be wrong and we can buy players the quality that is requirred but if we are to do it with the squad we have now then I think the CC and Europa league is the way to go.

The trouble is with the Europa cup is that it is another obstacle put in the way by the big boys to stop other teams attaining parity.
It brings in little revenue.
It is played on a thursday as opposed to tue/wed therefore leaving the club less able to recover for their league commitments.
There are far more far flung teams giving longer travelling times, having a similar affect on teams.

The champions league is basically the only way of generating success even though it generates a lot of very tedious football in the early stages.

I'm beginning to think that the CL is the way to go although the fact that it raises more income is not really an issue for us except in the aspect of increasing our turnover.And unless we got quite far into it how much would it generate.
But I dont want it to be a damp squib with us just sampling the tedious football that is in the early stages.Whereas I think we would have a good chance of going all the way in the EL whilst playing some half decent teams along the way.
I am still not convinced that our manager and majority of our team have enough top end European experience to be taking on teams who are the Euro giants in knockout competition with any success.
Basically I'm saying if we qualify for it this year will we be ready for it.

[Cityfan]

I'm beginning to think that the CL is the way to go although the fact that it raises more income is not really an issue for us except in the aspect of increasing our turnover.And unless we got quite far into it how much would it generate.
But I dont want it to be a damp squib with us just sampling the tedious football that is in the early stages.Whereas I think we would have a good chance of going all the way in the EL whilst playing some half decent teams along the way.
I am still not convinced that our manager and majority of our team have enough top end European experience to be taking on teams who are the Euro giants in knockout competition with any success.
Basically I'm saying if we qualify for it this year will we be ready for it.

Know what you mean but I do think that CL gives you an extra days rest forthe league which is important and it will almost certainly mean attracting a better quality players. Though I think we have done reasonably well so far with our buys.

[Beefymcfc]

I know this thread will get into the ten thousands, but isn't it time to let it go? Mancio is the manager (and has done well), so why do well dwell on old and future times when the reality is.................now?

[Socrates]

I know this thread will get into the ten thousands, but isn't it time to let it go? Mancio is the manager (and has done well), so why do well dwell on old and future times when the reality is.................now?

Arguments now done to death but it's still interesting to see the poll change, finally tipped to 51% just a day or 2 ago.

[DoomMerchant]

now i know why i've been ignoring this thread for like a month or so. Glad i stopped in to say hi tho.

cheers

[Lee_R]

Mancini last 7 games:
Won 6 lost 1
Scored 16 Con 6
4 games away 3 at home

Hughes last 7 games:
Won 3 draw 3 lost 1
Scored 15 Con 13
3 games away 4 at home

You can argue that Hughes's games were more difficult but considering Mancini has lost (supposedly) key players and didnt know the team... overall for me its an improvement. Is he 'The Man'..? more so than Hughes.

[MaineRoadMemories]

'Everything is on track,' said Robinho. 'Santos are looking at the duration of my loan. They want a year, but City only want six months. It is 90 per cent sure. In two or three days we should close the deal.'

Robinho quoted yesterday. This SIX MONTHS lark is appearing more and more and getting harder to ignore. Giving a manager six months is not fair IMO. Unless completely out of his depth I believe a manager should always be given two full seasons.

[crossan]

For me he will lead us to the title next season,we may get into the top 4 this time but with his obvious talents the title is ours next year.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

'Everything is on track,' said Robinho. 'Santos are looking at the duration of my loan. They want a year, but City only want six months. It is 90 per cent sure. In two or three days we should close the deal.'

Robinho quoted yesterday. This SIX MONTHS lark is appearing more and more and getting harder to ignore. Giving a manager six months is not fair IMO. Unless completely out of his depth I believe a manager should always be given two full seasons.

Even more so, we could be shooting ourselves in the leg big time here. IF, as I expect, Robbie Manc will turn out to be succesfull appointment in the future, he will always remember whole ultimatum episode and it's quite possible he will never see us as long term career option. IF he turned out to be succesfull and then left after a while it would be heart breaking.