Squad Depth

[edge275]

Just want to get this off my chest.

Hughes in the summer and through last year kept mentioning squad depth. We need a vast array of talented players to fill in for others so that we can change like for like and switch things round without having a weaker 11.

Well what I don't understand is why is Barry continuing to play when he's clearly lost form and is in need of surgery?

We learned a week ago or so that both Adebayor and Toure are carrying knocks as well. If that's the case why not replace them and let them heal up?

Unfortunately this is where we fall short because RSC is no replacement for Adebayor (whether Hughes has noticed this or not I don't know) and both Onouha and Kompany have been a bit of a liability the last few games.

We're in need of both left and right back being upgraded with the current incumbents being demoted to back ups. We need another top class defender. a top class striker (not second striker, but proper forward) and an attacking midfielder.

In my opinion RSC is not even good enough as a back up and should be sold back to fat sam. As said in another thread by Nick I'd go for Fabiano who would suit our play well. Out of him and Adebayor whoever is on form plays.

Attacking midfielder I'd love the dream purchase of Xavi but don't think Barcelona would sell. Another unlikely option is Fabregas who I'd love to have but again would be difficult to get him. A more realistic option in my opinion would be Benayoun. A great player who can open up defences wich is what we've lacked at times against teams who've parked the bus. Whilst I'm on this subject Ireland should still be first choice but played as an attacking midfielder behind the strikers not as an anchor man shielding the defence.

Right back - I'd go all out for Maicon. He is a big upgrade on Richards.

Left back -Not rated by some on here but Lahm. Great player.

Defender - I would go balls out for Carvalho. Chelsea would sell for 15m and he would come for 150k a week.


That's what I personally would do but I'm sure Hughes would/will sign different players, the only thing being he needs to start using them when needed. We have an array of midfielders who are more than capable for filling in for Barry whilst he has his surgery but not only does he not send him in for it but also keeps playing him!

As also mentioned above there's Adebayor and Toure as well who have a niggling injury each, why play them if it's going to hinder their performances which it quite clearly seems to have?

We're playing with 8 fully fit players no wonder we can't beat Bolton.

[ronk]

If you're referencing a thread suggesting January signings and talking almost exclusively about January signings, maybe it might be better to actually post in that thread rather than starting a new one.

Squad depth isn't something that can happen overnight. It's a waste of time if the team, isn't pretty close to right. We have a few players who we could probably do with giving games to because they need a run of games, especially in the new system.

It's not really feasible to have another player like Adebayor, there aren't many of him around, and they wouldn't want to be on the bench. We'll always be better off with someone who's not just a carbon copy. I think the problem of dealing with a missing or off form Adebayor isn't necessarily one of personnel, it's one of time and experience. Chelsea didn't buy another Drogba, they got Anelka. Both can play on their own but can play together too.

That said, there might be areas where we could strengthen, having lost Johnson for what's likely the season and with Barry not 100% and Ireland missing matches reasonably often there might be a case for a midfielder. I'd be thinking someone who can cross, play either wing and play effectively in the centre too when needed and who isn't David Bentley. But we do have options anyway in terms of doing things like moving SWP into the centre as an attacking mid and putting Weiss on.

[edge275]

If you're referencing a thread suggesting January signings and talking almost exclusively about January signings, maybe it might be better to actually post in that thread rather than starting a new one.

Squad depth isn't something that can happen overnight. It's a waste of time if the team, isn't pretty close to right. We have a few players who we could probably do with giving games to because they need a run of games, especially in the new system.

It's not really feasible to have another player like Adebayor, there aren't many of him around, and they wouldn't want to be on the bench. We'll always be better off with someone who's not just a carbon copy. I think the problem of dealing with a missing or off form Adebayor isn't necessarily one of personnel, it's one of time and experience. Chelsea didn't buy another Drogba, they got Anelka. Both can play on their own but can play together too.

That said, there might be areas where we could strengthen, having lost Johnson for what's likely the season and with Barry not 100% and Ireland missing matches reasonably often there might be a case for a midfielder. I'd be thinking someone who can cross, play either wing and play effectively in the centre too when needed and who isn't David Bentley. But we do have options anyway in terms of doing things like moving SWP into the centre as an attacking mid and putting Weiss on.

I only mentioned who I'd sign just for the sake of completion. My main point is that we have players carrying injuries who are kept being played. A bit foolish, wouldn't you say?

[Nick]

Just want to get this off my chest.

Hughes in the summer and through last year kept mentioning squad depth. We need a vast array of talented players to fill in for others so that we can change like for like and switch things round without having a weaker 11.

Well what I don't understand is why is Barry continuing to play when he's clearly lost form and is in need of surgery?

We learned a week ago or so that both Adebayor and Toure are carrying knocks as well. If that's the case why not replace them and let them heal up?

Unfortunately this is where we fall short because RSC is no replacement for Adebayor (whether Hughes has noticed this or not I don't know) and both Onouha and Kompany have been a bit of a liability the last few games.

We're in need of both left and right back being upgraded with the current incumbents being demoted to back ups. We need another top class defender. a top class striker (not second striker, but proper forward) and an attacking midfielder.

In my opinion RSC is not even good enough as a back up and should be sold back to fat sam. As said in another thread by Nick I'd go for Fabiano who would suit our play well. Out of him and Adebayor whoever is on form plays.

Attacking midfielder I'd love the dream purchase of Xavi but don't think Barcelona would sell. Another unlikely option is Fabregas who I'd love to have but again would be difficult to get him. A more realistic option in my opinion would be Benayoun. A great player who can open up defences wich is what we've lacked at times against teams who've parked the bus. Whilst I'm on this subject Ireland should still be first choice but played as an attacking midfielder behind the strikers not as an anchor man shielding the defence.

Right back - I'd go all out for Maicon. He is a big upgrade on Richards.

Left back -Not rated by some on here but Lahm. Great player.

Defender - I would go balls out for Carvalho. Chelsea would sell for 15m and he would come for 150k a week.


That's what I personally would do but I'm sure Hughes would/will sign different players, the only thing being he needs to start using them when needed. We have an array of midfielders who are more than capable for filling in for Barry whilst he has his surgery but not only does he not send him in for it but also keeps playing him!

As also mentioned above there's Adebayor and Toure as well who have a niggling injury each, why play them if it's going to hinder their performances which it quite clearly seems to have?

We're playing with 8 fully fit players no wonder we can't beat Bolton.

I actually agree with everything!! Hughes dropped Barry the other week im sure, forget which game, so he should take him out now. That is the one thing that pisses me off with Hughes. He'll play players until there legs fall off and that just makes them worse. Spot on about the replacements thing. If Ade has a knock, its like even MH knows that an injured ade is better than RSC.

[Kyle]

Good thread edge. I agree about the squad depth and playing with injured players. It is just hard because we can't have superstars as back ups, as it would be near impossible to attract superstars knowing that they are not going to be playing week in and week out. I'm not saying we should sign Benyoun, but we need to atract players of his standing that can come off the bench and give a good run out if needed, but doesn't expect to start every week. I think the key now is to find our starting eleven, once we know that, we can compensate for weaknesses or give some players competition in thier spot. It really frustrates me as well when managers play players injured, and we shouldn't have to be depending on that. When a player has even a small knock or a drop in form, someone else needs to step in until thier knock/head is straight.

[Beefymcfc]

The only thing with the suggestion that we are putting players on the pitch whilst injured, compared to squad depth is that you just cannot factor in certain things. I believe we have a good balance of players in depth with enough decent cover in most areas, however, how can you factor in that 4 players would go down with swine flu, and all midfielders. How do you factor in that Barry gets a groin problem whilst Stevie goes down with some strange disorder. We have the the correct cover as Sylvinho showed against Bolton, so how much cover do you have to hold?

We are not yet big enough to demand top quality cover, but in time, it will surely come when players actually want to come to us for footballing purposes rather than 'The Project' or 'The Money'!

[zuricity]

Barry should have been dropped six weeks ago. I can't be bothered whether he's injured or not. He is slower than a cart horse and he's definitely not performing for city.

[Colin the King]

You can't just spend money in an attempt to paper over the cracks every time something goes wrong. What we do have already is a tremendous squad of players- many of whom cost a lot of money to bring to the club. What we don't have is the advantage Chelsea and the filth, as front runners do- and that's time. Look at Chelsea's spine for example- Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Essien, Drogba. It hasn't changed in years and as a consequence they know each other inside out. We could potentially spend another £300million to further strengthen our squad but that issue would still remain.

Yes, it's frustrating at times watching us and yes, we should be performing better against the league's lower lights, but patience is still important. A year down the line these players will be much more aware of and confident among each other and I think we'll reap the rewards of that. In any case I don't see too many problem areas. It's silly mistakes rather than generally being poor that's costing us. Maybe we could benefit from a natural leader, as I don't think Touré fits that description, but after that I really think it's just a case of letting these players develop.

[10.Goater_Legend]

You can't just spend money in an attempt to paper over the cracks every time something goes wrong. What we do have already is a tremendous squad of players- many of whom cost a lot of money to bring to the club. What we don't have is the advantage Chelsea and the filth, as front runners do- and that's time. Look at Chelsea's spine for example- Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Essien, Drogba. It hasn't changed in years and as a consequence they know each other inside out. We could potentially spend another £300million to further strengthen our squad but that issue would still remain.

Yes, it's frustrating at times watching us and yes, we should be performing better against the league's lower lights, but patience is still important. A year down the line these players will be much more aware of and confident among each other and I think we'll reap the rewards of that. In any case I don't see too many problem areas. It's silly mistakes rather than generally being poor that's costing us. Maybe we could benefit from a natural leader, as I don't think Touré fits that description, but after that I really think it's just a case of letting these players develop.

Top post agree with all of it, in future years it looks as though our spine will be Shay, Kolo, NdJ, Ireland, Robinho, Tevez and Ade. Three of those players wern't even at the club a few months ago, once they all find an understanding we will be running riot against the likes of Bolton. You can already see from yesterday that Tevez, Ireland, Robson and Bellamy had abit of an understanding going on and we looked lethel going forward as a result.

[ian494]

Why should we drop Ade and Toure to help them recover when they will be going to the ACN in January?

Play them now and let them recover during their spell in Africa, so they are fresh for us in Feb.

[john68]

Eoin,
Once again a top top top post.
This squad has only been going for a few months and history shows that teams are built over seasons.
For fans, I think the major problem is that we are now so near...almost within touching distance and we ca can smell the impending success.

[DoomMerchant]

Eoin,
Once again a top top top post.
This squad has only been going for a few months and history shows that teams are built over seasons.
For fans, I think the major problem is that we are now so near...almost within touching distance and we ca can smell the impending success.

are you sure someone hasn't just farted in your cab?

cheers

[Socrates]

Why should we drop Ade and Toure to help them recover when they will be going to the ACN in January?

Play them now and let them recover during their spell in Africa, so they are fresh for us in Feb.

Hmmmm. More likely that playing them nowmeans they are still carrying injuries when they go to Nations Cup and their countries then play them 90 minutes a game and manage to finish them off for the rest of the season :O(

[Rag_hater]

You can't just spend money in an attempt to paper over the cracks every time something goes wrong. What we do have already is a tremendous squad of players- many of whom cost a lot of money to bring to the club. What we don't have is the advantage Chelsea and the filth, as front runners do- and that's time. Look at Chelsea's spine for example- Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Essien, Drogba. It hasn't changed in years and as a consequence they know each other inside out. We could potentially spend another £300million to further strengthen our squad but that issue would still remain.

Yes, it's frustrating at times watching us and yes, we should be performing better against the league's lower lights, but patience is still important. A year down the line these players will be much more aware of and confident among each other and I think we'll reap the rewards of that. In any case I don't see too many problem areas. It's silly mistakes rather than generally being poor that's costing us. Maybe we could benefit from a natural leader, as I don't think Touré fits that description, but after that I really think it's just a case of letting these players develop.

I think you can spend money and get out of any predicament you find yourself in.
This argument of a team needing time to gel doesn't wash with me.Given time the team will improve but the whole point of buying players the quality of Tevez and Robson is to have them perform at a standard that is above what the majority of teams have so therefore us to be better than them.
Why would Real and the big clubs spend money od players like Kaka,Tranny Barca on Ibramovich.To have them gel with the side in couple of years or to start performing straight away.
Surely the idea of spending 20 or 30 mil on a player is to get one that can do the bizz straight away.

[carl_feedthegoat]

You can't just spend money in an attempt to paper over the cracks every time something goes wrong. What we do have already is a tremendous squad of players- many of whom cost a lot of money to bring to the club. What we don't have is the advantage Chelsea and the filth, as front runners do- and that's time. Look at Chelsea's spine for example- Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Essien, Drogba. It hasn't changed in years and as a consequence they know each other inside out. We could potentially spend another £300million to further strengthen our squad but that issue would still remain.

Yes, it's frustrating at times watching us and yes, we should be performing better against the league's lower lights, but patience is still important. A year down the line these players will be much more aware of and confident among each other and I think we'll reap the rewards of that. In any case I don't see too many problem areas. It's silly mistakes rather than generally being poor that's costing us. Maybe we could benefit from a natural leader, as I don't think Touré fits that description, but after that I really think it's just a case of letting these players develop.

I think you can spend money and get out of any predicament you find yourself in.
This argument of a team needing time to gel doesn't wash with me.Given time the team will improve but the whole point of buying players the quality of Tevez and Robson is to have them perform at a standard that is above what the majority of teams have so therefore us to be better than them.
Why would Real and the big clubs spend money od players like Kaka,Tranny Barca on Ibramovich.To have them gel with the side in couple of years or to start performing straight away.
Surely the idea of spending 20 or 30 mil on a player is to get one that can do the bizz straight away.

YOUR RIGHT.
WE BOUGHT PREMIERSHIP PROVEN TOP PLAYERS SO THAT THEY COULD PERFORM FROM DAY ONE.....AS A TEAM THEY NEED TIME TO GEL WHICH IS FAIR ENOUGH BUT AS SEASONED PREM PLAYERS THEY SHOULD PERFORM FROM THE OFF AND NOT BE FUCKING UP INDIVIDUALY LIKE THE BENNY HILL SHOW AT THE BACK.

[Guy Debord]

You can't just spend money in an attempt to paper over the cracks every time something goes wrong. What we do have already is a tremendous squad of players- many of whom cost a lot of money to bring to the club. What we don't have is the advantage Chelsea and the filth, as front runners do- and that's time. Look at Chelsea's spine for example- Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Essien, Drogba. It hasn't changed in years and as a consequence they know each other inside out. We could potentially spend another £300million to further strengthen our squad but that issue would still remain.

Yes, it's frustrating at times watching us and yes, we should be performing better against the league's lower lights, but patience is still important. A year down the line these players will be much more aware of and confident among each other and I think we'll reap the rewards of that. In any case I don't see too many problem areas. It's silly mistakes rather than generally being poor that's costing us. Maybe we could benefit from a natural leader, as I don't think Touré fits that description, but after that I really think it's just a case of letting these players develop.

Great response, constantly searching for replacements every time someone has a bad game will get us nowhere.

[Tokyo Blue]

I think you can spend money and get out of any predicament you find yourself in.
This argument of a team needing time to gel doesn't wash with me.Given time the team will improve but the whole point of buying players the quality of Tevez and Robson is to have them perform at a standard that is above what the majority of teams have so therefore us to be better than them.
Why would Real and the big clubs spend money od players like Kaka,Tranny Barca on Ibramovich.To have them gel with the side in couple of years or to start performing straight away.
Surely the idea of spending 20 or 30 mil on a player is to get one that can do the bizz straight away.

I think you can spend money to get out of situations at the bottom of the table but at the top end it's a bit different.

The OP is talking about defenders. Not one of the players you mention is a defender. Can you remember any defenders signed by top clubs dropping straight in and looking world class immediately? I am struggling.

[Rag_hater]

I think you can spend money and get out of any predicament you find yourself in.
This argument of a team needing time to gel doesn't wash with me.Given time the team will improve but the whole point of buying players the quality of Tevez and Robson is to have them perform at a standard that is above what the majority of teams have so therefore us to be better than them.
Why would Real and the big clubs spend money od players like Kaka,Tranny Barca on Ibramovich.To have them gel with the side in couple of years or to start performing straight away.
Surely the idea of spending 20 or 30 mil on a player is to get one that can do the bizz straight away.

I think you can spend money to get out of situations at the bottom of the table but at the top end it's a bit different.

The OP is talking about defenders. Not one of the players you mention is a defender. Can you remember any defenders signed by top clubs dropping straight in and looking world class immediately? I am struggling.

I can't think of any myself and I don't think that question could be answered unless one was to watch other teams and judge how a defender had affected the team.With a midfielder or striker one can judge by the number of goals and assists.
However I go back to the point that I have watched JL play in more or less every prem game he has played for us and for me it is not a reason that he is unfamiliar with his team mates and surroundings for the mistakes he is making.It is the level of player that he is and the instruction he is being given by his seniors.
For me he is not the quality of Vidic,Terry,Carragher,Gallas who are the level of players we should be aiming for.

[Original Dub]

I think you can spend money and get out of any predicament you find yourself in.
This argument of a team needing time to gel doesn't wash with me.Given time the team will improve but the whole point of buying players the quality of Tevez and Robson is to have them perform at a standard that is above what the majority of teams have so therefore us to be better than them.
Why would Real and the big clubs spend money od players like Kaka,Tranny Barca on Ibramovich.To have them gel with the side in couple of years or to start performing straight away.
Surely the idea of spending 20 or 30 mil on a player is to get one that can do the bizz straight away.

I think you can spend money to get out of situations at the bottom of the table but at the top end it's a bit different.

The OP is talking about defenders. Not one of the players you mention is a defender. Can you remember any defenders signed by top clubs dropping straight in and looking world class immediately? I am struggling.

I can't think of any myself and I don't think that question could be answered unless one was to watch other teams and judge how a defender had affected the team.With a midfielder or striker one can judge by the number of goals and assists.
However I go back to the point that I have watched JL play in more or less every prem game he has played for us and for me it is not a reason that he is unfamiliar with his team mates and surroundings for the mistakes he is making.It is the level of player that he is and the instruction he is being given by his seniors.
For me he is not the quality of Vidic,Terry,Carragher,Gallas who are the level of players we should be aiming for.

How are Real getting on? How much have they pushed on from least season after they bought all those players?

For the record, I believe Barca will win the league this season.

I'm not as sure they'll win it next season and less sure the season after... because it takes more than money to mount a challenge. It takes time to gel whenever you buy a lot of players in one go.

Especially if your trying to go from midtable to the top four. You really do believe all it takes is money and the club DESERVES to win.

I would have thought with you watching football and the progress of football clubs for a far longer time than I have done, that you'd know there's a lot more factors than just buying success.

[Nick]

You can't just spend money in an attempt to paper over the cracks every time something goes wrong. What we do have already is a tremendous squad of players- many of whom cost a lot of money to bring to the club. What we don't have is the advantage Chelsea and the filth, as front runners do- and that's time. Look at Chelsea's spine for example- Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Essien, Drogba. It hasn't changed in years and as a consequence they know each other inside out. We could potentially spend another £300million to further strengthen our squad but that issue would still remain.

Yes, it's frustrating at times watching us and yes, we should be performing better against the league's lower lights, but patience is still important. A year down the line these players will be much more aware of and confident among each other and I think we'll reap the rewards of that. In any case I don't see too many problem areas. It's silly mistakes rather than generally being poor that's costing us. Maybe we could benefit from a natural leader, as I don't think Touré fits that description, but after that I really think it's just a case of letting these players develop.

Great response, constantly searching for replacements every time someone has a bad game will get us nowhere.

True, but thats all we (As fans can debate). Otherwise we'd either be slagging players off for not taking note of training or talking about improving the coaches (which counts as negative and hughes-bashing. I personally think that hughes should get in some of the best coaches in the world. Fair enough, he can keep his mates. But we are after the best youth/squad/players in the world and your telling me theres not a single defensive coach that cannot improve us?!I doubt that the taffia are the best defensive coaches in the country.