Zonal Marking

[zabbadabbado]

What is Garcia ?, I am not joking either, I have never seen such a slow football player. He is not a midfielder he is too slow and 9 times out off 10 resorts to shirt pulling to catch a man. He went for a couple of half pulls today, dire player.

[edge275]

I think it highlights that the back up to Nastasic and Kompany is actually pretty dire.

Lescott is such a weird player, he can be reasonably solid in periods but always seems to have a howler or two in him. Apart from maybe occasional cameos he cannot be relied upon on a consistent basis, in my opinion.

As for Garcia, he is maybe a top 8 midfielder, nevermind playing centre back for a team that is aiming to become Premier League Champions. Circumstances dictate this of course, but we need back up pronto. I would go for Pepe, and maybe offer Everton Lescott plus a bit of cash for Jagielka. Not a classy centre back like Kompany, but does the basics right 99.9% of the time.

[Ted Hughes]

I think it highlights that the back up to Nastasic and Kompany is actually pretty dire.

Lescott is such a weird player, he can be reasonably solid in periods but always seems to have a howler or two in him. Apart from maybe occasional cameos he cannot be relied upon on a consistent basis, in my opinion.

As for Garcia, he is maybe a top 8 midfielder, nevermind playing centre back for a team that is aiming to become Premier League Champions. Circumstances dictate this of course, but we need back up pronto. I would go for Pepe, and maybe offer Everton Lescott plus a bit of cash for Jagielka. Not a classy centre back like Kompany, but does the basics right 99.9% of the time.

We won the fucking league, with Lescott at cb. How in the name of Christ can he not be relied upon ?

I really don't understand how the fuck Lescott is anybody's topic for conversation today.

He didn't play very well at all, but he was better than every other cunt in the defence; we let in 3 goals, none of which were his fault, but he ALMOST cost us on a couple of occasions, so let's bring it up. EVERYONE else in the back 4, plus the goalkeeper, had a FUCKING NIGHTMARE, Lescott had a couple of bad moments.

WHY is Lescott any kind of topic ?
Why not all the useless cunts who cost us goals first, then criticise Lescott 2nd ?

And why the fuck can Aguero & Yaya Toure get away with today's showing ?

[carl_feedthegoat]

I think it highlights that the back up to Nastasic and Kompany is actually pretty dire.

Lescott is such a weird player, he can be reasonably solid in periods but always seems to have a howler or two in him. Apart from maybe occasional cameos he cannot be relied upon on a consistent basis, in my opinion.

As for Garcia, he is maybe a top 8 midfielder, nevermind playing centre back for a team that is aiming to become Premier League Champions. Circumstances dictate this of course, but we need back up pronto. I would go for Pepe, and maybe offer Everton Lescott plus a bit of cash for Jagielka. Not a classy centre back like Kompany, but does the basics right 99.9% of the time.

We won the fucking league, with Lescott at cb. How in the name of Christ can he not be relied upon ?

I really don't understand how the fuck Lescott is anybody's topic for conversation today.

He didn't play very well at all, but he was better than every other cunt in the defence; we let in 3 goals, none of which were his fault, but he ALMOST cost us on a couple of occasions, so let's bring it up. EVERYONE else in the back 4, plus the goalkeeper, had a FUCKING NIGHTMARE, Lescott had a couple of bad moments.

WHY is Lescott any kind of topic ?
Why not all the useless cunts who cost us goals first, then criticise Lescott 2nd ?

And why the fuck can Aguero & Yaya Toure get away with today's showing ?

Because as an old experienced cunt, Lescott should have manned up and rose above the other culprits,but he didnt.
He was fucking dire.

[Ted Hughes]

I think it highlights that the back up to Nastasic and Kompany is actually pretty dire.

Lescott is such a weird player, he can be reasonably solid in periods but always seems to have a howler or two in him. Apart from maybe occasional cameos he cannot be relied upon on a consistent basis, in my opinion.

As for Garcia, he is maybe a top 8 midfielder, nevermind playing centre back for a team that is aiming to become Premier League Champions. Circumstances dictate this of course, but we need back up pronto. I would go for Pepe, and maybe offer Everton Lescott plus a bit of cash for Jagielka. Not a classy centre back like Kompany, but does the basics right 99.9% of the time.

We won the fucking league, with Lescott at cb. How in the name of Christ can he not be relied upon ?

I really don't understand how the fuck Lescott is anybody's topic for conversation today.

He didn't play very well at all, but he was better than every other cunt in the defence; we let in 3 goals, none of which were his fault, but he ALMOST cost us on a couple of occasions, so let's bring it up. EVERYONE else in the back 4, plus the goalkeeper, had a FUCKING NIGHTMARE, Lescott had a couple of bad moments.

WHY is Lescott any kind of topic ?
Why not all the useless cunts who cost us goals first, then criticise Lescott 2nd ?

And why the fuck can Aguero & Yaya Toure get away with today's showing ?

Because as an old experienced cunt, Lescott should have manned up and rose above the other culprits,but he didnt.
He was fucking dire.

What you are actually saying is Lescott is better than the other defenders & you would have liked to have seen more from him.

In that, I am in total agreement.

[edge275]

I think it highlights that the back up to Nastasic and Kompany is actually pretty dire.

Lescott is such a weird player, he can be reasonably solid in periods but always seems to have a howler or two in him. Apart from maybe occasional cameos he cannot be relied upon on a consistent basis, in my opinion.

As for Garcia, he is maybe a top 8 midfielder, nevermind playing centre back for a team that is aiming to become Premier League Champions. Circumstances dictate this of course, but we need back up pronto. I would go for Pepe, and maybe offer Everton Lescott plus a bit of cash for Jagielka. Not a classy centre back like Kompany, but does the basics right 99.9% of the time.

We won the fucking league, with Lescott at cb. How in the name of Christ can he not be relied upon ?

I really don't understand how the fuck Lescott is anybody's topic for conversation today.

He didn't play very well at all, but he was better than every other cunt in the defence; we let in 3 goals, none of which were his fault, but he ALMOST cost us on a couple of occasions, so let's bring it up. EVERYONE else in the back 4, plus the goalkeeper, had a FUCKING NIGHTMARE, Lescott had a couple of bad moments.

WHY is Lescott any kind of topic ?
Why not all the useless cunts who cost us goals first, then criticise Lescott 2nd ?

And why the fuck can Aguero & Yaya Toure get away with today's showing ?

For what it's worth, quite a few average players have Premier League champion medals.

Yaya Toure and Zabaleta were poor today no doubt, but it's rare when that happens and it's natural you cut them some slack as they've done amazing for us many times in other matches.

It's only my opinion, but I don't think Lescott is good enough for us going forward, even as back up. And that is not based solely on this game.

[Ted Hughes]

I think it highlights that the back up to Nastasic and Kompany is actually pretty dire.

Lescott is such a weird player, he can be reasonably solid in periods but always seems to have a howler or two in him. Apart from maybe occasional cameos he cannot be relied upon on a consistent basis, in my opinion.

As for Garcia, he is maybe a top 8 midfielder, nevermind playing centre back for a team that is aiming to become Premier League Champions. Circumstances dictate this of course, but we need back up pronto. I would go for Pepe, and maybe offer Everton Lescott plus a bit of cash for Jagielka. Not a classy centre back like Kompany, but does the basics right 99.9% of the time.

We won the fucking league, with Lescott at cb. How in the name of Christ can he not be relied upon ?

I really don't understand how the fuck Lescott is anybody's topic for conversation today.

He didn't play very well at all, but he was better than every other cunt in the defence; we let in 3 goals, none of which were his fault, but he ALMOST cost us on a couple of occasions, so let's bring it up. EVERYONE else in the back 4, plus the goalkeeper, had a FUCKING NIGHTMARE, Lescott had a couple of bad moments.

WHY is Lescott any kind of topic ?
Why not all the useless cunts who cost us goals first, then criticise Lescott 2nd ?

And why the fuck can Aguero & Yaya Toure get away with today's showing ?

For what it's worth, quite a few average players have Premier League champion medals.

Yaya Toure and Zabaleta were poor today no doubt, but it's rare when that happens and it's natural you cut them some slack as they've done amazing for us many times in other matches.

It's only my opinion, but I don't think Lescott is good enough for us going forward, even as back up. And that is not based solely on this game.

I can't agree that Lescott has fucked up more than Zabba or Yaya during his City career, he has been fantastic for us at his job, & has had some bad days, same as they have, but I can agree that he isn't the ideal person we need for the future. But so far, neither is Nastasic imo & Kompany's showing from last season wasn't either.

Imo, each performance by each player should be based on its merit on that day & that rarely happens with Lescott. He has always & it seems will always, be the whipping boy for a bad City performance, or evn one mistake ina good one; it's always his fault, even if he is ten yards away. God help him when he actually does cost us a goal, it comes up every game for a year afterwards.

[Wooders]

Whichever tactics you use, if you play that badly you're gonna ship goals
I think the key "difference" in the defence that has the best record for the last 3 seasons was kompany wasnt playing

[Ted Hughes]

Whichever tactics you use, if you play that badly you're gonna ship goals
I think the key "difference" in the defence that has the best record for the last 3 seasons was kompany wasnt playing

It was 'a' difference, but we defended just as badly v Arsenal pre season, & he was playing, & indeed a main culprit, in that.

He would have cut out the cross which led to the first goal, but so normally would Lescott & Zabba, & even Garcia tbf. There seemed to be complete confusion, with 3 players all running toward the same area, all thinking the others had it covered, & Clichy just let the bloke cross it. I find the whole thing pretty worrying.

There were a lot of elementary defensive fuckups pre season, such as fullbacks being stood too far away from the central defenders & allowing passes through the gap, stuff Mancini would not have accepted, & now we see this horrendous mess on set pieces.

I am all for attacking football, but the defence, as a team, has to be organised if it's to work & so far the Count has shown no sign of achieving that. He needs to sort it very quickly or he will be gone by Christmas.

[sheblue]

Whichever tactics you use, if you play that badly you're gonna ship goals
I think the key "difference" in the defence that has the best record for the last 3 seasons was kompany wasnt playing

It was 'a' difference, but we defended just as badly v Arsenal pre season, & he was playing, & indeed a main culprit, in that.

He would have cut out the cross which led to the first goal, but so normally would Lescott & Zabba, & even Garcia tbf. There seemed to be complete confusion, with 3 players all running toward the same area, all thinking the others had it covered, & Clichy just let the bloke cross it. I find the whole thing pretty worrying.

There were a lot of elementary defensive fuckups pre season, such as fullbacks being stood too far away from the central defenders & allowing passes through the gap, stuff Mancini would not have accepted, & now we see this horrendous mess on set pieces.

I am all for attacking football, but the defence, as a team, has to be organised if it's to work & so far the Count has shown no sign of achieving that. He needs to sort it very quickly or he will be gone by Christmas.

The defensive display yesterday was very worrying, against a better side we could have given more away. despite the lack of orginisation or co-ordination garcia and lescott cant play high up the field. They just cant and it has to stop or we will leak plenty of goals. If we have to stick with them two in the short term surely leave less room behind them.
The lack of tackling and poor defending set plays is purely down to coaching.
We have to hope that pelligrini and Co sees the problems and will act on them, act fast.
Gone by christmas? No, think he will sort it.

[Hazy2]

Whichever tactics you use, if you play that badly you're gonna ship goals
I think the key "difference" in the defence that has the best record for the last 3 seasons was kompany wasnt playing

It was 'a' difference, but we defended just as badly v Arsenal pre season, & he was playing, & indeed a main culprit, in that.

He would have cut out the cross which led to the first goal, but so normally would Lescott & Zabba, & even Garcia tbf. There seemed to be complete confusion, with 3 players all running toward the same area, all thinking the others had it covered, & Clichy just let the bloke cross it. I find the whole thing pretty worrying.

There were a lot of elementary defensive fuckups pre season, such as fullbacks being stood too far away from the central defenders & allowing passes through the gap, stuff Mancini would not have accepted, & now we see this horrendous mess on set pieces.

I am all for attacking football, but the defence, as a team, has to be organised if it's to work & so far the Count has shown no sign of achieving that. He needs to sort it very quickly or he will be gone by Christmas.

The performance has to be a one off or as you say, he will be in trouble, we cannot and will not pose any problems over a season to the rags or Champs league unless he gets the systems sorted, Hart has been flaky for 12 months, we lack a leaders even Vinny is not immune to some calling out, Zabba, Glichy were worse than Lescott yesterday. I think we need at least 2 more defenders, they are all no more than decent, Zabba is all action but lacks a pass, Glichy needs competion, Lescott getting bye, We looked imo like Arsenal pretty but always going to get done. Tons of work needed which could end up with a dodgy few months. Better teams might mean major problems away from home based on that shambles. We need more goals on days like yesterday to mask issues just as the rags do.

[kinkylola]

i think yesterday's performance simply outlined how dependent we are on Kompany to organize and lead our side. I don't think for one second that with kompany on the pitch we would have shipped any of those goals ... and i'm not saying that kompany would have been the one to stop them, but he certainly would have kept the team better organized than that.

We were a mess, and to me it looked exactly like not just a defence without a leader, but an entire team without a leader. Making yaya captain is a joke by the way and that should never happen again.

We need more leader types on the field, more influential personalities and people who are focused and committed to perfection each and every second. I would doubt the commitment and focus of several of our 'key' players after that loss and that's not something said easily. We need people willing to go out their and give 200% on the field, and it doesn't have to be because they love city ... let's be honest, there is no reason for any player who comes from outside manchester to 'love city' ... but they should do it for pride in their own performance and the refusal to lose. That is what makes a winner, and looking at what happened yesterday, I would say the last one left that can still hold on to that title is Vinnie.

[london blue 2]

Pelligrini fucked up yesterday. If a tactical genius cannot see that Garcia and lescott are too slow (and shit) to be played alongside each other then he needs help. We all saw this, every single one of us. And most of us know fuck all about the games tactics.

[kinkylola]

Pelligrini fucked up yesterday. If a tactical genius cannot see that Garcia and lescott are too slow (and shit) to be played alongside each other then he needs help. We all saw this, every single one of us. And most of us know fuck all about the games tactics.

i think this was a harsh lesson to be learned ... but a cb pair of lescott and garcia is so dangerous against speedy forwards, especially with the way we push our fb's up. Cardiff happen to have an extremely pacy forward in Campbell, but they aren't the only ones. Thank god he's a shit striker, or else he could have bagged a hatrick not including his fucking headers. He was through 1v1 with hart how many times with lescott and garcia helpless. We pretty much left their only means of applying pressure to us available for the entire game. We didn't just make it available, we fucking put a target on the middle of our defense with the caption "run past us" on it. It doesn't matter how good a defender lescott is, his strength is not in his speed, and that's just a fact. I don't even have to mention garcia's pace, but we really have a lack of options and at the moment, no other all-round excellent defender like kompany.

[london blue 2]

Pelligrini fucked up yesterday. If a tactical genius cannot see that Garcia and lescott are too slow (and shit) to be played alongside each other then he needs help. We all saw this, every single one of us. And most of us know fuck all about the games tactics.

i think this was a harsh lesson to be learned ... but a cb pair of lescott and garcia is so dangerous against speedy forwards, especially with the way we push our fb's up. Cardiff happen to have an extremely pacy forward in Campbell, but they aren't the only ones. Thank god he's a shit striker, or else he could have bagged a hatrick not including his fucking headers. He was through 1v1 with hart how many times with lescott and garcia helpless. We pretty much left their only means of applying pressure to us available for the entire game. We didn't just make it available, we fucking put a target on the middle of our defense with the caption "run past us" on it. It doesn't matter how good a defender lescott is, his strength is not in his speed, and that's just a fact. I don't even have to mention garcia's pace, but we really have a lack of options and at the moment, no other all-round excellent defender like kompany.

Surely just one quicker defensive player would have killed the long ball option. Boyata, Rodwell, yaya (if he'd defend properly), either that or play a more deeper tactic. As I say none of us are experts but we knew what was going to happen, it happens time and time again with us. It's not rocket science and the count coming from la liga is no excuse.

[Ted Hughes]

Whichever tactics you use, if you play that badly you're gonna ship goals
I think the key "difference" in the defence that has the best record for the last 3 seasons was kompany wasnt playing

It was 'a' difference, but we defended just as badly v Arsenal pre season, & he was playing, & indeed a main culprit, in that.

He would have cut out the cross which led to the first goal, but so normally would Lescott & Zabba, & even Garcia tbf. There seemed to be complete confusion, with 3 players all running toward the same area, all thinking the others had it covered, & Clichy just let the bloke cross it. I find the whole thing pretty worrying.

There were a lot of elementary defensive fuckups pre season, such as fullbacks being stood too far away from the central defenders & allowing passes through the gap, stuff Mancini would not have accepted, & now we see this horrendous mess on set pieces.

I am all for attacking football, but the defence, as a team, has to be organised if it's to work & so far the Count has shown no sign of achieving that. He needs to sort it very quickly or he will be gone by Christmas.

The defensive display yesterday was very worrying, against a better side we could have given more away. despite the lack of orginisation or co-ordination garcia and lescott cant play high up the field. They just cant and it has to stop or we will leak plenty of goals. If we have to stick with them two in the short term surely leave less room behind them.
The lack of tackling and poor defending set plays is purely down to coaching.
We have to hope that pelligrini and Co sees the problems and will act on them, act fast.
Gone by christmas? No, think he will sort it.

Pellegrini has already had the team working on set pieces though. They have shown it on the OS. So far he has failed to get his method accross. Better get his shit together.

The performance has to be a one off or as you say, he will be in trouble, we cannot and will not pose any problems over a season to the rags or Champs league unless he gets the systems sorted, Hart has been flaky for 12 months, we lack a leaders even Vinny is not immune to some calling out, Zabba, Glichy were worse than Lescott yesterday. I think we need at least 2 more defenders, they are all no more than decent, Zabba is all action but lacks a pass, Glichy needs competion, Lescott getting bye, We looked imo like Arsenal pretty but always going to get done. Tons of work needed which could end up with a dodgy few months. Better teams might mean major problems away from home based on that shambles. We need more goals on days like yesterday to mask issues just as the rags do.

The Count is trying to make big changes to every area of our play, at the same time. What we ended up with at Cardiff, was a Pellekini; a mixture of two managers' crap.

Against Newcastle some of it worked, & tbf we did get a few decent crosses in v Cardiff, but for most of the game, when Cardiff pressed, we reverted to the same unimaginitive, slow, crap Mancini had us playing, but with Hughes' defence.

When we did get it right, Silva Aguero etc made terrible decisions & fucked up the openings. The one positive was the crosses, we scored one & had Negredo been on longer, probably would have got a few more away.

But the whole Pellegrini defensive system failed completely. Not just at the back; Yaya & Fernandinho left huge holes behind them & the rest of the players totally failed to press the ball, leaving Cardiff plenty of time to do what they liked.

A top side would have put 5 or 6 goals past us, even a 5th/ 6th place side; try giving Gerrard or Bale the time & space to pick out a free shot whenever he likes, or let Sturridege or DeFoe run in behind the defence like Campbell did.


I don't know what they have told the Count; perhaps they have told him he will be allowed the time to change over to his system, & not be held accountable this season. But it's a hell of a lot for the players to take on board, especially after being brainwashed & beaten into playing another way for 3 years.

The Count is fucking good if he can make that many changes & get away with it successfully in one season imo.

[steveo_88]

It would be irrelevant if the goalkeeper came and caught the ball and not give the centre-forward free headers a yard or two from goal. If the ball is that close to the goal, it is not unreasonable for defenders to expect the goalkeeper to claim it.

At least you were watching the game closely!

From day one we have always known Zabba's weakness is marking, once a player is not in front of him Pablo can be easily lost. I love the guy but remember he's a jack of all trades player, he's never going to be a Clichy, Nastasic or Richards. Taking Zabba's main vulnerability into account both corner goals were scored in the six yard box, with no pressure on the goalie and the first made Benjani's at the swamp look like a header!

Joe Hart is to blame. A defence starts and ends at the keeper. He has little to no command of his area and cannot catch let alone punch to save his life. Even the first goal conceded is questionable, why was there no attempt at a second save? If you can get down to it why can't you smother the ball up like your taught as a kid?
As a comparison Marshall for Cardiff had two balls in his six yard box from corners which he caught cleanly under the same amount of pressure! Also when Marshall came for a ball after clearly shouting only to have a donkey defender clear it for a corner out of is hands he then proceeded to bollock his defence for not listening to their number one. Joe is a good keeper but if there's no improvement in his game we have to ask, is he reliable or a liability? Cech is always beatable but he commands his area better and works closer with his defence.

I'll leave out the useless kicking in the second half that wasted possession to a weak Cardiff team who weren't good enough to make a chance from it for every other week this year.

Zabba did enough to make Campbell work for his goals, yes he made mistakes but where was the keeper when called upon? Our major weak point in defence yesterday was Garcia yet the defence survived that, when the keeper was called into action he let his team down.

[TheReturnOfTheSpecialOne]

I liked it, it worked better than whatever that was that I just witnessed.

I seem to recall it worked best when it was a combination of zonal and man-marking; i.e., main threats being man-marked.

[Ted Hughes]

I liked it, it worked better than whatever that was that I just witnessed.

I seem to recall it worked best when it was a combination of zonal and man-marking; i.e., main threats being man-marked.

This & depending on who is assigned which job. Boateng & Savic for instance, totally failed both jobs.

[PeterParker]

The last i did some diging about Pelle and there was a thing about his defence. Last season at Malaga, he concided 50 goals, two years ago 53, three years ago 68 and four years ago, at Madrid, 38.

I remember some heavy beatings that they got, even at Real, but still they score a shitload of goals. We migh have this problem in this year, many goals, and 4-3 and 5-4 type of games.