Just another commercial football club....

[lets all have a disco]

LAHAD and twosips, i couldn't agree more, what's gone wrong?

and kinky, just checked my spam and i also have a very similar email from emirates, offering me arsenal stoke tickets!

It's never been the same since we moved to the Etihad. I was in my teens while we were at Maine Road, and I remember enough to know that it was just really, really entertaining and very fucking loud. It's like moving into a new home I guess..its nice and all, but it just doesn't have the same memories. It's so pristine, so shiny and so expensive looking that you can't help but be on your best behaviour. Put even the loudest of creatures in a fancy restaurant and most of them will end up shutting up, to an extent. It's happened to the fans... the old home comforts of Maine Road just aren't there, and there was definitely a feeling of 'we're guests at this place' when we initially moved to it, and that feeling has never really faded away. People kind of just sat and gazed in wonder at the wide opened excellence of it all. Felt rather formal, and not up close, a bit grotty and ultimately it just didn't feel like it was ours...time has passed a bit now, and I guess after everything we're used to it, and it is home, but it just doesn't incite the same passion sadly. All the fans have been separated, new routines have been set in place, and all that tribalism that practically seeped through the cracks of Maine Road has just not found its way over to the new gaff. It's a shame.

yes ;-(

I do prefer not getting as much dog shit on my shoes though.

[john68]

LAHAD and twosips, i couldn't agree more, what's gone wrong?

and kinky, just checked my spam and i also have a very similar email from emirates, offering me arsenal stoke tickets!

It's never been the same since we moved to the Etihad. I was in my teens while we were at Maine Road, and I remember enough to know that it was just really, really entertaining and very fucking loud. It's like moving into a new home I guess..its nice and all, but it just doesn't have the same memories. It's so pristine, so shiny and so expensive looking that you can't help but be on your best behaviour. Put even the loudest of creatures in a fancy restaurant and most of them will end up shutting up, to an extent. It's happened to the fans... the old home comforts of Maine Road just aren't there, and there was definitely a feeling of 'we're guests at this place' when we initially moved to it, and that feeling has never really faded away. People kind of just sat and gazed in wonder at the wide opened excellence of it all. Felt rather formal, and not up close, a bit grotty and ultimately it just didn't feel like it was ours...time has passed a bit now, and I guess after everything we're used to it, and it is home, but it just doesn't incite the same passion sadly. All the fans have been separated, new routines have been set in place, and all that tribalism that practically seeped through the cracks of Maine Road has just not found its way over to the new gaff. It's a shame.

yes ;-(

NO!
A compelling argument, dripping with sentimentalism...but I am not convinced. I loved Maine Road and agree that the "Old Lady" had her own atmosphere but I can also remember too many pre 1965 games, when she was near empty on match days and the Kippax echoed like an empty cathedral. Crowds singing, dancing, jumping and chanting make atmospheres, not concrete.

Our pristine stadium didn't stop the Commonwealth Games crowds of only around 28,000 from buzzing. Nor did it stop the bouncing, cheering Ranger's fans from doing the same....and how many times have City fans sat and watched as some of our European visitors made their away section bounce with energy?

[john68]

Arjan......Thank fucl a kindred spirit.

It worries me that almost every City fan I speak to on the subject seems to be so grateful for the money that has funded our rise that they refuse to acknowledge some of the more unsavoury realities that are creeping into our club.

We have the perfect example just down the road of what happened to them, many many years before the Glazers trotted across the pond. As much as I can't stand them, even I must admit that many years ago,they were an FC rather than a PLC. City fans have to keep a watchful eye on our own club.

The ADUG Group were not City fans, nor did they buy the club to further the cause of MCFC for the sake of the club. For them it was simply an investment. Their reason? To use our club as a vehicle to promote their country and their financial interests. As grateful as we may be, we should never ever EVER forget that fact.

Since the takeover, the interests of ADUG and the fans have been the same. For us, it has meant better players, better quality football, success and the wonderful gifts of trophies. For our owners, it has meant enhancing the product and furthering the brand. I'm not sure if anybody took any notice when I warned that at some point, the interests of our owners and the interest of the fans may diverge.

The rags have cupboards full of silverware but how many of those old passionate shitford enders have been forced into Sky subscriptions because their tickets have been sold to the global glory hunters? The Etihad will be upgraded to 60,000 capacity. How many of those tickets will be sold via travel agents and agencies throughout the World and not the passionate diehard.

Cheers for being a cynic Arjan Mate...and now we are two....any more?

[Cocacolajojo1]

Let's say there's an option other than knowing about the fact that things will change and enjoying it until they goes that far, what would that be then John and Arjan?

[Cocacolajojo1]

.

[Im_Spartacus]

The single biggest scandal is the continuing allocation for viagogo, which the cheeky cunts at the club had the neck to advertise on facebook the other day. The responses alone should have shown the club just how much they had misjudged the mood of the fans over that one.

They tried to portray the viagogo seats for the Liverpool game as fans tickets returned, when everyone immediately knew what the score was, and that city had sold the allocation on to a ticket reseller to sell at in excess of £100 a ticket. The comments which followed must have woken someone up at city, because they were universally damning

I dont imagine the club make a huge amount from this deal, but they pr damage of it is huge. Hope they see sense and fuck it pff at the end of any contract they may have with viagogo.

[Dunnylad]

Is the problem that we're successful? That everything is geared towards excellence including the ground? Was it not more exciting when we were shit and a win against Liverpool was greeted with a roar or the whole stadium bounced when we held out against Wigan to get to the play off final? We're in a world where standing in seated areas is frowned upon, where the best atmosphere we generate is at away matches, where fans who feel that kindred bond dance & sing during the match & at half time under the stands - the fans that created the atmosphere's of the past are still there, they've just been diluted by all the others and the changes to the match day experience. It's not necessarily about the ground, about not standing, it's about a number of factors that have seen football develop into the sterile atmosphere we get today. Honestly I think tv has ruined it more than any of the other changes, we expect to be entertained, with instant replays, slow-mo's etc and that's why the atmosphere has died we're passive watching a tv match live at the ground.

[Im_Spartacus]

Is the problem that we're successful? That everything is geared towards excellence including the ground? Was it not more exciting when we were shit and a win against Liverpool was greeted with a roar or the whole stadium bounced when we held out against Wigan to get to the play off final? We're in a world where standing in seated areas is frowned upon, where the best atmosphere we generate is at away matches, where fans who feel that kindred bond dance & sing during the match & at half time under the stands - the fans that created the atmosphere's of the past are still there, they've just been diluted by all the others and the changes to the match day experience. It's not necessarily about the ground, about not standing, it's about a number of factors that have seen football develop into the sterile atmosphere we get today. Honestly I think tv has ruined it more than any of the other changes, we expect to be entertained, with instant replays, slow-mo's etc and that's why the atmosphere has died we're passive watching a tv match live at the ground.

There is the dilution in atmosphere you talk about, and most of us accept that as a price for a shiny new stadium and the need to fill it. But stuff like the viagogo deal is entirely unnecessary and nothing other than allowing fans to be ripped off. Thats an entirely different thing.

The club on the one hand listen to the fans and drop the cost of a pint this season, yet then in the next breath allow viagogo to legally tout tickets provided by the club for a sold out game.

Its like the left hand doesnt know what the right is doing, and half pf the good work the club does with fans is undone by someone else

[john@staustell]

There was definitely a change when the Sheik realised Platini was serious with his FFP bollox. Before that the takeover was definitely more altruistic!

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

There were many games when Maine Rd was quiet. All seater killed atmosphere in the main.
The Kippax always felt noisy when you were under that vast low roof, but I take John's point that even the Kippax had bad days.
Maine Rd was not an atmospheric ground when we left it.
I wasn't fond of our new ground for a while but I'm warming to it. And even if you aren't that fond of it, you have to admit that it could be worse. It has a good central location, rather than some out of site godforsaken boring shithole like Pride Park, Reebok or Readings effort.

[SmallTimeCharlie]

Is the problem that we're successful? That everything is geared towards excellence including the ground? Was it not more exciting when we were shit and a win against Liverpool was greeted with a roar or the whole stadium bounced when we held out against Wigan to get to the play off final? We're in a world where standing in seated areas is frowned upon, where the best atmosphere we generate is at away matches, where fans who feel that kindred bond dance & sing during the match & at half time under the stands - the fans that created the atmosphere's of the past are still there, they've just been diluted by all the others and the changes to the match day experience. It's not necessarily about the ground, about not standing, it's about a number of factors that have seen football develop into the sterile atmosphere we get today. Honestly I think tv has ruined it more than any of the other changes, we expect to be entertained, with instant replays, slow-mo's etc and that's why the atmosphere has died we're passive watching a tv match live at the ground.

There is the dilution in atmosphere you talk about, and most of us accept that as a price for a shiny new stadium and the need to fill it. But stuff like the viagogo deal is entirely unnecessary and nothing other than allowing fans to be ripped off. Thats an entirely different thing.

The club on the one hand listen to the fans and drop the cost of a pint this season, yet then in the next breath allow viagogo to legally tout tickets provided by the club for a sold out game.

Its like the left hand doesnt know what the right is doing, and half pf the good work the club does with fans is undone by someone else

Mistakes are always going to be made. If it happens twice, then...

City, football, the world, everything keeps changing, will keep on changing, and nobody's ever going to stop it or turn it round. The good old days were also violent affairs, with grubby stands and grubbier food. Packs of kids insisting they mind your car for you for 50p (with the implied consequences for not doing so.) Oh, and we were mostly shit.
You're all right about the atmosphere and the business side of the club, of course, but I choose to deal with it by concentrating on what's happening on the pitch. That's tiptop, and we still wear sky blue.

[Cocacolajojo1]

If and when they expand the stadium, they should really try to fix the acoustics though. I mean the atmosphere isn't helped by the fact that the sound bounces in a way which creates a delay. In other words, it's pretty hard to maintain a synchronised singing effort. Get it done City.

[Ted Hughes]

People are talking as if this relates to City in particular.

It is not about City at all; this is what top level football in England is. It became this, when we were in the doldrums. It had turned, even before Utd gave Roy K***e £40k per week & pushed all wages through the roof, or spent £28 mil on a centre half.

City were new to it because we were often in the lower leagues whilst it was changing. We came up & we all sang & still had a bit of lower league attitude. After a few seasons, that goes. It's happening to Stoke now; their ground is getting quieter & their away support less enthusiastic. It happened to Portsmouth; their away support went from deafening & sold out to half empty & half arsed. Their home support calmed down & got used to it.

We have just played Stoke away in a half empty stadium where their fans could hardly muster a song.

That is because Stoke are now becoming established Premier League & their attitude is changing because of it. Tony Pulis is even being respectful to City instead of just telling us to fuck ourselves. They are joining the club.

Imo, City do some stuff which is not kosher, but so does everyone else in one way or another. This is what the Premier League is all about & Gill, Platini etc are striving to make it become even moreso.

We either go to games or we don't; it's our choice. I choose to go at the moment. I have hopes that the parts I don't like will decrease, & the parts I do like will increase. I think our bosses will try to achieve a happy medium, but if they can't, they will just operate the same as anyone else.

It's The Premier League & it was invented by rags, scousers & Southern wideboys, in order to make money.

[Swales4ever]

Arjan......Thank fucl a kindred spirit.

It worries me that almost every City fan I speak to on the subject seems to be so grateful for the money that has funded our rise that they refuse to acknowledge some of the more unsavoury realities that are creeping into our club.

We have the perfect example just down the road of what happened to them, many many years before the Glazers trotted across the pond. As much as I can't stand them, even I must admit that many years ago,they were an FC rather than a PLC. City fans have to keep a watchful eye on our own club.

The ADUG Group were not City fans, nor did they buy the club to further the cause of MCFC for the sake of the club. For them it was simply an investment. Their reason? To use our club as a vehicle to promote their country and their financial interests. As grateful as we may be, we should never ever EVER forget that fact.

Since the takeover, the interests of ADUG and the fans have been the same. For us, it has meant better players, better quality football, success and the wonderful gifts of trophies. For our owners, it has meant enhancing the product and furthering the brand. I'm not sure if anybody took any notice when I warned that at some point, the interests of our owners and the interest of the fans may diverge.

The rags have cupboards full of silverware but how many of those old passionate shitford enders have been forced into Sky subscriptions because their tickets have been sold to the global glory hunters? The Etihad will be upgraded to 60,000 capacity. How many of those tickets will be sold via travel agents and agencies throughout the World and not the passionate diehard.

Cheers for being a cynic Arjan Mate...and now we are two....any more?

Cheers for that.
It seems we are witnessing the rebirth of the Rotten Clone of a previously revered open mind, here.... hopefully not.

God save FFP, anyway, it might save City from plastic tourists.

[john68]

Cocacolajojo,
Sorry mate but I didn't fully understand the point you were making Mate.

There are two distinct and separate issues raised here.
1...The atmosphere.
2...The future of our club and how the interests of our owners in the future may affect and possibly even oppose the interests of we fans.

Of the 2 issues, I think the 2nd is by far the most important. We have only to look over the road at what happened there under Edwards, led by Kenyon many years ago and the subsequent changes they brought in to the detriment of their fans. Changes deliberately designed to maximise profit from each seat that was sold. The change from fans to customers, the changes in the way the rags sold tickets, where and why and how those changes disenfranchised long standing fans.

[Cocacolajojo1]

Cocacolajojo,
Sorry mate but I didn't fully understand the point you were making Mate.

There are two distinct and separate issues raised here.
1...The atmosphere.
2...The future of our club and how the interests of our owners in the future may affect and possibly even oppose the interests of we fans.

Of the 2 issues, I think the 2nd is by far the most important. We have only to look over the road at what happened there under Edwards, led by Kenyon many years ago and the subsequent changes they brought in to the detriment of their fans. Changes deliberately designed to maximise profit from each seat that was sold. The change from fans to customers, the changes in the way the rags sold tickets, where and why and how those changes disenfranchised long standing fans.

I wasn't making a point, I was asking a question. It'd be number two I am asking about.

[john68]

There was definitely a change when the Sheik realised Platini was serious with his FFP bollox. Before that the takeover was definitely more altruistic!

I agree that there were changes made because of the FFPR bollox John, the club stated that publicly several times. particularly around the time Hughes was sacked, when they gave his failure to meet the NEW targets set and given to him at his well publicised meeting with Sheik Mansour in Abu Dhabi, as the major reason for his dismissal.

I am not sure about the altruism though mate. I can't deny we as a club and fans have benefited well beyond our wildest dreams because of the project, but was it altruism, or was it a necessary path our owners had to take to realise their own ambitions and interests?

Their interests and our interests have undoubtedly matched until now. But I am not convinced that the altruism led the project. I think the project as the project and the benefits we have gained can be translated as altruism.

[Chinners]

It's The Premier League & it was invented by rags, scousers & Southern wideboys, in order to make money.

If I remember correctly, Swales was one of the main players when the Prem was set up ... so it was us as well!

[Ted Hughes]

It's The Premier League & it was invented by rags, scousers & Southern wideboys, in order to make money.

If I remember correctly, Swales was one of the main players when the Prem was set up ... so it was us as well!

Swales sniffed around everything that was evil in football but it was pushed through by the same mob who are trying to shit on us now, plus Everton. In those days they liked to call themselves the 'Big Five'.

Now, the same group is the 'Big One', plus a bunch of fucking losers & no Everton.