City's Longball Tactics

[Burt]

Excellent analysis mate. I just can't believe it's all down to what Hughes tells them to do (the pattern). Surely he must see what everone on this board can see as well?

Yes, he can see what everyone else on the board can see.... but what if he looks down upon his new creation, and decides it pleases him ?

And what if all his new players start to gel and the long term injured ones like Robinho, Crocky, Johnson and Ned etc make his new creation a really top team?

The (biblical) reference to his "creation" referred to tactics and style of play. The personnel are irrelevant, and not part of the discussion. The thread is about the long ball tactics. It's not a thread about giving Hughes time for his personnel to get together. Plus I suspect a plot to draw me into a Hughes In/Out debate.... there is another thread for that.... and I don't want to be banned.... :-)

With respect mate, I avoid the Leslie in/out threads like the plague usually and am not trying to draw you into that debate.

I think that with the players at our disposal, when we're a few more games down the line, will be playing a game more pleasing to the eye than you suggest. Even if Leslie tells em to hoof it (and only a fool would think that he does), these players are too good for that and will eventually start playing some decent stuff IMO.

We are closer to being top 4 challengers than I had hoped to think before this season started and when (not if) we go on a good run of results, there will be a couple of big clubs shittin themselves.

[simon12]

Thanks everyone for collectively saving me the need to type so much...

Players panicking
Defence and attack too far apartDe Jong needs to do more off the ball running
De Jong needs to learn to pass forwards occasionally
De Jong

Do you remember the days when everyone blamed Dunne (me included) and said "if Hughes could replace Dunne with better ball-playing defenders we wouldn't have this problem".... so we have Toure (ex-midfielder) and we are still hoofing the ball hopefully to a target man....

Answer = A playmaker

[Beefymcfc]

I'm sure they're not tactics, but are part of the game!

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

So how do you explain all the hoofing that's going on then ?

There is a difference between deliberately trying to play long ball football and having to play like that imo. I honestly Hughes doesn't send out the team to hoof it up. Our playmaking is just lacking something which then leads to a situation where they feel their best option to move forward is by playing a long ball to Ade.
How often is there a clear pass line between attackers and NDJ or Barry? and the answer is probably only when the strikers drop deep.

But the manager does set the pattern for the team. At the moment when a central defender has the ball our current shape looks a bit like this (here follows a very basic attempt at a diagram :-)

____________Toure&ball_______Lescott
Zabba____________De Jong____________
________________________ Barry ____________ Bridge


SWP
____________Tevez ___________________ Bellamy

_____________________ Adebayor____________

De Jong comes so deep he is like a third central defender. Barry wants to play deep because he is used to it. Bellamy is not a natural wide midfielder so he drifts up the rather than trying to make himself available to defenders. There is a big gap in the middle of the pitch. The only progressive passes for a defender are to the full backs to run on to. De Jong is usually so deep that the opposition strikers are marking him (sometimes because he himself stands on the shoulder of opposition strikers making it even easier for them).
All that is down to the manager. They have tactics boards. Some managers even use Powerpoint and Barco Projectors these days. They shows diagrams to the team. I think Hughes should be showing a diagram that looks a bit like this. Then we could pass our way out of defence:
____________Toure&ball______ Lescott

Zabba ______________ De Jong ______Bridge
____________ Barry____________
___________________________Bellamy
_____SWP _________Tevez ____________

____________Adebayor____________

Miyagi for manager!

See! It's not that bloody difficult.

[Hazy]

So how do you explain all the hoofing that's going on then ?

There is a difference between deliberately trying to play long ball football and having to play like that imo. I honestly Hughes doesn't send out the team to hoof it up. Our playmaking is just lacking something which then leads to a situation where they feel their best option to move forward is by playing a long ball to Ade.
How often is there a clear pass line between attackers and NDJ or Barry? and the answer is probably only when the strikers drop deep.

But the manager does set the pattern for the team. At the moment when a central defender has the ball our current shape looks a bit like this (here follows a very basic attempt at a diagram :-)

____________Toure&ball_______Lescott
Zabba____________De Jong____________
________________________ Barry ____________ Bridge


SWP
____________Tevez ___________________ Bellamy

_____________________ Adebayor____________

De Jong comes so deep he is like a third central defender. Barry wants to play deep because he is used to it. Bellamy is not a natural wide midfielder so he drifts up the rather than trying to make himself available to defenders. There is a big gap in the middle of the pitch. The only progressive passes for a defender are to the full backs to run on to. De Jong is usually so deep that the opposition strikers are marking him (sometimes because he himself stands on the shoulder of opposition strikers making it even easier for them).
All that is down to the manager. They have tactics boards. Some managers even use Powerpoint and Barco Projectors these days. They shows diagrams to the team. I think Hughes should be showing a diagram that looks a bit like this. Then we could pass our way out of defence:
____________Toure&ball______ Lescott

Zabba ______________ De Jong ______Bridge
____________ Barry____________
___________________________Bellamy
_____SWP _________Tevez ____________

____________Adebayor____________

Miyagi for manager!

See! It's not that bloody difficult.

Easy that's why we are here on a website and they are pro's, Face it fans have a vision of how it is, if we knew jack shit would we be sat in offices, vans, casinos, were fans face it we all no better, The teams Hughes has played for the players he has brought and got rid off, have not been long ball teams. City are still evolving from M. Ball on the left peg "woosh up the Line", Dunne, 1st time back where it came from, City now have long ball specialists like Petrov who can switch play from touch line to touch line but that is a tactic used by Barca with Midfielders joining in from the switch, City against he Scousers faced Gerrard who is deployed to win the ball high up the pitch with little thought to defensive duties, Carragher will hit a long ball and Torres fights for it Gerrard picks up the loose ball, with all that the team at the top Chelsea play both short and long game, but have had yrs to perfect it we have had months.

[Mr Miyagi]

The teams Hughes has played for the players he has brought and got rid off, have not been long ball teams.

I disagree when it comes to Wales: their tactic was simply long ball to Hartson and fight for the loose ball. It took them so far (the play off) but no further. Blackburn also used that tactic. Less frequently than Wales but it was their main route forward, with players like Savage and David Dunne fighting for the loose ball.

City are still evolving from M. Ball on the left peg "woosh up the Line", Dunne, 1st time back where it came from,

I agree this is what we were told. Get rid of the likes of Dunne for better skilled defenders and we won't need to hoof it. Well Dunne has gone and we have defenders like Toure and Lescott. But we are still hoofing it up.

City now have long ball specialists like Petrov who can switch play from touch line to touch line but that is a tactic used by Barca with Midfielders joining in from the switch,

The Barca style comes from the old Ajax system, and they would never miss out the midfield. There is a grid pattern and the focus is on passing to the people next to you in the grid. They would not risk a long ball from one side of the pitch to the other. Also while the ball is in the air it gives the defence time to readjust themselves.

Just some thoughts...

[john@staustell]

This is an uncomfortable thread. It's more or less comparing us to Bolton & Stoke, yet we play some bloody good football as acknowledged by many 'independents' in the press. Dont think we kick it more than Scum, Chelski (certainly) or the Dippers (again certainly). So why all the criticism all the time?

Much of what I remember from playing Blackburn is them pissing through us time and again - on the floor mostly.

There is a time to kick it and a time to play it. And if you have to kick it, at least we've got some people to hold it up.

Fans are strange types. If a player boxes himself into a position and slightly misplaces a pass or gets closed down it's "KICK THE BLOODY THING", if they kick it it's "PLAY IT ON THE FLOOR".

LOL

[dazby]

Let's get one thing straight John. The only time I condone a hoof is when it's a defensive clearance under pressure, and it has to be real pressure. I don't mind a cross field long ball to a lone player. However, long ball to a contest? Not on.

[Hazy]

The teams Hughes has played for the players he has brought and got rid off, have not been long ball teams.

I disagree when it comes to Wales: their tactic was simply long ball to Hartson and fight for the loose ball. It took them so far (the play off) but no further. Blackburn also used that tactic. Less frequently than Wales but it was their main route forward, with players like Savage and David Dunne fighting for the loose ball.

City are still evolving from M. Ball on the left peg "woosh up the Line", Dunne, 1st time back where it came from,

I agree this is what we were told. Get rid of the likes of Dunne for better skilled defenders and we won't need to hoof it. Well Dunne has gone and we have defenders like Toure and Lescott. But we are still hoofing it up.

City now have long ball specialists like Petrov who can switch play from touch line to touch line but that is a tactic used by Barca with Midfielders joining in from the switch,

The Barca style comes from the old Ajax system, and they would never miss out the midfield. There is a grid pattern and the focus is on passing to the people next to you in the grid. They would not risk a long ball from one side of the pitch to the other. Also while the ball is in the air it gives the defence time to readjust themselves.

Just some thoughts...

Wales is a no brainer, harder at home when you r expected to make the running. Limited wow factor players,Bellamy and Giggs were the only players you could rely on. So yes upto Hartson and work of the 2nd ball. City are evolving and also seeing the tempo higher because of the draw we are now, so it will be a litle rushed but to say long ball is ott. Barca will always play through you if poss this season with a lot of changes they have not until this week with Inter had the same tempo slow slow quick quick pass and move Xavi and Iniesta have been injured and Messi looks knackered so they have switched it upto Henry to hold it,only last week at Bilbao did they go long as the tempo was such that time on the ball meant losing it in the areas they were pressed. Result 1-1 listen you and I could talk all day but the reality is we are not a long ball team we are a new team, having to learn in the Premier which is not ideal. All teams have to mix it up. AS for the grid PEP uses that will be yesterdays chip paper with him he knows the personal he has dictates and a static Inter, would be ideal, week in week out, however say Chelsea, who I hate will press and work on a 0-0 and a set piece goal to win it Pep will mix it up to suit him and the switch play long pass is to the wide areas is the way forward as Iba will hold it up for Messi and others to flood forward counter attack part 2. Brazil dit against England, Liverpool did for Torres 2 long passes 2 gaols in 2 did games. One being Vidic at fault. Front players love a 1on1 and if played right looks great.

[john68]

Let's get one thing straight John. The only time I condone a hoof is when it's a defensive clearance under pressure, and it has to be real pressure. I don't mind a cross field long ball to a lone player. However, long ball to a contest? Not on.

I don't disagree dazzler but I just don't think we play the long ball as much as some on here. When we do and it isn't necessary, it annoys me too.
I have seen us play some excellent football. Sometimes we play a passing game but too slowly, allowing defences to regroup. That pisses me off a bit too.
I also think that as a counterattacking team, it is legitimate to knock the ball long into forward space. We have the energy and pace up front to get those ball, in behind defences.

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

I watched the game today with this very topic in mind. I counted two what I'd call long balls. I'm not saying that we don't have a problem, but playing long ball tactics definitely isn't it.

[edge275]

I watched the game today with this very topic in mind. I counted two what I'd call long balls. I'm not saying that we don't have a problem, but playing long ball tactics definitely isn't it.

There was loads more than 2 long balls. I also had this topic in mind myself.

[LookMumImOnMCF.net]

I watched the game today with this very topic in mind. I counted two what I'd call long balls. I'm not saying that we don't have a problem, but playing long ball tactics definitely isn't it.

There was loads more than 2 long balls. I also had this topic in mind myself.

There were two long balls. Lescott two minutes in & Toure towards the end.

[Hazy]

The teams Hughes has played for the players he has brought and got rid off, have not been long ball teams.

I disagree when it comes to Wales: their tactic was simply long ball to Hartson and fight for the loose ball. It took them so far (the play off) but no further. Blackburn also used that tactic. Less frequently than Wales but it was their main route forward, with players like Savage and David Dunne fighting for the loose ball.

City are still evolving from M. Ball on the left peg "woosh up the Line", Dunne, 1st time back where it came from,

I agree this is what we were told. Get rid of the likes of Dunne for better skilled defenders and we won't need to hoof it. Well Dunne has gone and we have defenders like Toure and Lescott. But we are still hoofing it up.

City now have long ball specialists like Petrov who can switch play from touch line to touch line but that is a tactic used by Barca with Midfielders joining in from the switch,

The Barca style comes from the old Ajax system, and they would never miss out the midfield. There is a grid pattern and the focus is on passing to the people next to you in the grid. They would not risk a long ball from one side of the pitch to the other. Also while the ball is in the air it gives the defence time to readjust themselves.

Just some thoughts...

Wales is a no brainer, harder at home when you r expected to make the running. Limited wow factor players,Bellamy and Giggs were the only players you could rely on. So yes upto Hartson and work of the 2nd ball. City are evolving and also seeing the tempo higher because of the draw we are now, so it will be a litle rushed but to say long ball is ott. Barca will always play through you if poss this season with a lot of changes they have not until this week with Inter had the same tempo slow slow quick quick pass and move Xavi and Iniesta have been injured and Messi looks knackered so they have switched it upto Henry to hold it,only last week at Bilbao did they go long as the tempo was such that time on the ball meant losing it in the areas they were pressed. Result 1-1 listen you and I could talk all day but the reality is we are not a long ball team we are a new team, having to learn in the Premier which is not ideal. All teams have to mix it up. AS for the grid PEP uses that will be yesterdays chip paper with him he knows the personal he has dictates and a static Inter, would be ideal, week in week out, however say Chelsea, who I hate will press and work on a 0-0 and a set piece goal to win it Pep will mix it up to suit him and the switch play long pass is to the wide areas is the way forward as Iba will hold it up for Messi and others to flood forward counter attack part 2. Brazil dit against England, Liverpool did for Torres 2 long passes 2 gaols in 2 did games. One being Vidic at fault. Front players love a 1on1 and if played right looks great.

Ironic Barca, should score a goal depite all the pass and Move, it is the back post ball and who was there, please take it the right way u could not have scripted it mate Just a thought !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!