City's Longball Tactics

[marvin]

The stats suggest that City are Not a long ball team.

Can't reproduce them, but the Sunday Observer carries Tables of data whoch vary from week to week. Recently they've run stats on the number of touches, headers etc. I remember noting that City were right up there with Arsenal Chelsea etc.

Sorry to be a bit vague, but I don't see how you can label City a long ball team at the moment.

[Vhero]

The stats suggest that City are Not a long ball team.

Can't reproduce them, but the Sunday Observer carries Tables of data whoch vary from week to week. Recently they've run stats on the number of touches, headers etc. I remember noting that City were right up there with Arsenal Chelsea etc.

Sorry to be a bit vague, but I don't see how you can label City a long ball team at the moment.

Do you actually fucking watch the game or sit at home looking at stats instead?? We all know we constantly hike the ball up the pitch for about 45 minutes or until the opposition score then we actually start playing some football. It fucking annoys the shit out of me We never played this way under Sven or Pearce so its definitely something Hughes has brought to the team.

[Moonchesteri]

The stats suggest that City are Not a long ball team.

Can't reproduce them, but the Sunday Observer carries Tables of data whoch vary from week to week. Recently they've run stats on the number of touches, headers etc. I remember noting that City were right up there with Arsenal Chelsea etc.

Sorry to be a bit vague, but I don't see how you can label City a long ball team at the moment.

Do you actually fucking watch the game or sit at home looking at stats instead?? We all know we constantly hike the ball up the pitch for about 45 minutes or until the opposition score then we actually start playing some football. It fucking annoys the shit out of me We never played this way under Sven or Pearce so its definitely something Hughes has brought to the team.

I'm with Vhero here. You can't just look at the stats (not saying marvin that you don't watch the games). Yes of course we have lots of touches and passes. Hardly a surprise when we pass the ball around in midfield and defense (around half-way line where the opponents let us to come) going nowhere until, like people have said, someone panics and kicks it upfield somewhere.

A lot more interesting fact would be to see what kind of passing patterns we produce (and compare it to, say rags or Arse).

it seems at times that the players don't even want to make themselves available. We miss some movement and tempo in our game badly. And we need something or someone to link up the play between midfield and attack.

[john68]

Vhero,
To quote you..."Do you actually (fucking) watch the game?"
I can assure you that we don't ALL KNOW that we constantly hike the ball upfield for about 45 mins.

For a start, I for one was NOT aware of that and I suggest that maybe you are exaggerating the issue a little. I have seen us do this sometimes and it annoys me too. I have also seen us play some good football.
There are times when a long clearance is necessary to relieve pressure. There are times when there is space behind the defense for a forward to run on to.

The long ball was used just as much under Sven and certainly under Pearce, maybe you were looking at the stats yourself at the time, or maybe in your words...not actually (fucking) watching the match.

[Colin the King]

The long ball wasn't used under Pearce? Thanks Vhero, you've given me a chuckle with that one.

My own belief is that the players look to have a better understanding of each other and the tactics employed away from home. It's like a reverse of last season. We've kept clean sheets at Blackburn, Birmingham, Palace, Portsmouth and given creditable performances against Liverpool, Villa and the filth, all on the road- yet played poorly (despite winning) against Wolves, and looked completely disorganised against Burnley and Fulham. It's almost, ironically enough given our expenditure on forwards, that we're more comfortable playing a patient, defensive and counter-attacking game and when we need to take the initiative we don't go about it very well at Eastlands.

Maybe we should persevere with that tactic both at home and on our travels- Barry and de Jong holding the fort, with Ireland in an advanced position. When we have SWP and Bellamy operating in the wide areas it with that setup we can break quickly and effectively. It just seems as though we keep the ball on the ground better away from home.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Vhero,
To quote you..."Do you actually (fucking) watch the game?"
I can assure you that we don't ALL KNOW that we constantly hike the ball upfield for about 45 mins.

For a start, I for one was NOT aware of that and I suggest that maybe you are exaggerating the issue a little. I have seen us do this sometimes and it annoys me too. I have also seen us play some good football.
There are times when a long clearance is necessary to relieve pressure. There are times when there is space behind the defense for a forward to run on to.

The long ball was used just as much under Sven and certainly under Pearce, maybe you were looking at the stats yourself at the time, or maybe in your words...not actually (fucking) watching the match.

I both agree and disagree.

We have played good football occasionally as well but only in patches. I've never really thought it to be some great plan though.

Football under Pearce....jesus...I don't particularily rate Hughes but some of the stuff we played under Pearce made me lost my will to live. Under Hughes I've been pissed off when we haven't performed but Pearce's football was so mindnumbing that I didn't even know what to say anymore.

[dazby]

I don't think we play it any more than anyone else.

Anyway, the majority of long balls get headed out by the opposition and then contested & picked up in midfield. Problem is we're useless at that too!

Bring back Keegan!!

We play it more than Liverpool. Let's face it, if we are to be a top 4 team we need to control the ball and control possession. Being generous to Leslie I think we play 40% long ball on our attacking raids. I have no doubt that the Big 4 and other quality European clubs will play a heck of lot less than that. If we want to play like Barcelona we need to control the ball like Barcelona. I am positive that Pep does not support hopeful longballs as a strategy.

[Vhero]

Yeah I was feeling weird last night I have no idea why I wrote Pearce I apologize for that lol.

[dazby]

Nice one Vhero.

[Moonchesteri]

Vhero,
To quote you..."Do you actually (fucking) watch the game?"
I can assure you that we don't ALL KNOW that we constantly hike the ball upfield for about 45 mins.

For a start, I for one was NOT aware of that and I suggest that maybe you are exaggerating the issue a little. I have seen us do this sometimes and it annoys me too. I have also seen us play some good football.
There are times when a long clearance is necessary to relieve pressure. There are times when there is space behind the defense for a forward to run on to.

The long ball was used just as much under Sven and certainly under Pearce, maybe you were looking at the stats yourself at the time, or maybe in your words...not actually (fucking) watching the match.

I both agree and disagree.

We have played good football occasionally as well but only in patches. I've never really thought it to be some great plan though.

Football under Pearce....jesus...I don't particularily rate Hughes but some of the stuff we played under Pearce made me lost my will to live. Under Hughes I've been pissed off when we haven't performed but Pearce's football was so mindnumbing that I didn't even know what to say anymore.

I don't have a clue how on earth I was even then buzzing before matches, knowing what shite we will be offered.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Vhero,
To quote you..."Do you actually (fucking) watch the game?"
I can assure you that we don't ALL KNOW that we constantly hike the ball upfield for about 45 mins.

For a start, I for one was NOT aware of that and I suggest that maybe you are exaggerating the issue a little. I have seen us do this sometimes and it annoys me too. I have also seen us play some good football.
There are times when a long clearance is necessary to relieve pressure. There are times when there is space behind the defense for a forward to run on to.

The long ball was used just as much under Sven and certainly under Pearce, maybe you were looking at the stats yourself at the time, or maybe in your words...not actually (fucking) watching the match.

I both agree and disagree.

We have played good football occasionally as well but only in patches. I've never really thought it to be some great plan though.

Football under Pearce....jesus...I don't particularily rate Hughes but some of the stuff we played under Pearce made me lost my will to live. Under Hughes I've been pissed off when we haven't performed but Pearce's football was so mindnumbing that I didn't even know what to say anymore.

I don't have a clue how on earth I was even then buzzing before matches, knowing what shite we will be offered.

Well I was buzzing before games as always but usually 10 mins into game felt like shit again. What was worse was when we went behind you KNEW we were NEVER going to get back into the game.....EVER. Spirit crushing to say the least when we are one down after 15 mins and you know that you are going to watch desperate long balls that lead to nothing for next 75 mins.

I know someone will say that we had shit players back then and to some degree it's true BUT you can still try to play football.

[Hazy]

City are not a long ball team.

[dazby]

So how do you explain all the hoofing that's going on then ?

[Moonchesteri]

So how do you explain all the hoofing that's going on then ?

There is a difference between deliberately trying to play long ball football and having to play like that imo. I honestly Hughes doesn't send out the team to hoof it up. Our playmaking is just lacking something which then leads to a situation where they feel their best option to move forward is by playing a long ball to Ade.
How often is there a clear pass line between attackers and NDJ or Barry? and the answer is probably only when the strikers drop deep.

[mr_nool]

So how do you explain all the hoofing that's going on then ?

There is a difference between deliberately trying to play long ball football and having to play like that imo. I honestly Hughes doesn't send out the team to hoof it up. Our playmaking is just lacking something which then leads to a situation where they feel their best option to move forward is by playing a long ball to Ade.
How often is there a clear pass line between attackers and NDJ or Barry? and the answer is probably only when the strikers drop deep.

As someone mentioned in the beginning of the thread, I also think confidence has a lot to do with it.
We haven't been playing great, which naturally affects the players. Instead of chosing the better, but rikier option of playing the ball on the ground, they opt for the lang ball. I don't think it's down only to the confidence of the back for, but when they now that Barry et al are also in a bad patch of form, the short pass in the middle is a risky business, since they're not 100% confident that the player at the other end will be able to receive and control it.

[Mr Miyagi]

So how do you explain all the hoofing that's going on then ?

There is a difference between deliberately trying to play long ball football and having to play like that imo. I honestly Hughes doesn't send out the team to hoof it up. Our playmaking is just lacking something which then leads to a situation where they feel their best option to move forward is by playing a long ball to Ade.
How often is there a clear pass line between attackers and NDJ or Barry? and the answer is probably only when the strikers drop deep.

But the manager does set the pattern for the team. At the moment when a central defender has the ball our current shape looks a bit like this (here follows a very basic attempt at a diagram :-)

____________Toure&ball_______Lescott
Zabba____________De Jong____________
________________________ Barry ____________ Bridge


SWP
____________Tevez ___________________ Bellamy

_____________________ Adebayor____________

De Jong comes so deep he is like a third central defender. Barry wants to play deep because he is used to it. Bellamy is not a natural wide midfielder so he drifts up the rather than trying to make himself available to defenders. There is a big gap in the middle of the pitch. The only progressive passes for a defender are to the full backs to run on to. De Jong is usually so deep that the opposition strikers are marking him (sometimes because he himself stands on the shoulder of opposition strikers making it even easier for them).
All that is down to the manager. They have tactics boards. Some managers even use Powerpoint and Barco Projectors these days. They shows diagrams to the team. I think Hughes should be showing a diagram that looks a bit like this. Then we could pass our way out of defence:
____________Toure&ball______ Lescott

Zabba ______________ De Jong ______Bridge
____________ Barry____________
___________________________Bellamy
_____SWP _________Tevez ____________

____________Adebayor____________

[Moonchesteri]

So how do you explain all the hoofing that's going on then ?

There is a difference between deliberately trying to play long ball football and having to play like that imo. I honestly Hughes doesn't send out the team to hoof it up. Our playmaking is just lacking something which then leads to a situation where they feel their best option to move forward is by playing a long ball to Ade.
How often is there a clear pass line between attackers and NDJ or Barry? and the answer is probably only when the strikers drop deep.

But the manager does set the pattern for the team. At the moment when a central defender has the ball our current shape looks a bit like this (here follows a very basic attempt at a diagram :-)

____________Toure&ball_______Lescott
Zabba____________De Jong____________
________________________ Barry ____________ Bridge


SWP
____________Tevez ___________________ Bellamy

_____________________ Adebayor____________

De Jong comes so deep he is like a third central defender. Barry wants to play deep because he is used to it. Bellamy is not a natural wide midfielder so he drifts up the rather than trying to make himself available to defenders. There is a big gap in the middle of the pitch. The only progressive passes for a defender are to the full backs to run on to. De Jong is usually so deep that the opposition strikers are marking him (sometimes because he himself stands on the shoulder of opposition strikers making it even easier for them).
All that is down to the manager. They have tactics boards. Some managers even use Powerpoint and Barco Projectors these days. They shows diagrams to the team. I think Hughes should be showing a diagram that looks a bit like this. Then we could pass our way out of defence:
____________Toure&ball______ Lescott

Zabba ______________ De Jong ______Bridge
____________ Barry____________
___________________________Bellamy
_____SWP _________Tevez ____________

____________Adebayor____________

Excellent analysis mate. I just can't believe it's all down to what Hughes tells them to do (the pattern). Surely he must see what everone on this board can see as well?

[Mr Miyagi]

Excellent analysis mate. I just can't believe it's all down to what Hughes tells them to do (the pattern). Surely he must see what everone on this board can see as well?

Yes, he can see what everyone else on the board can see.... but what if he looks down upon his new creation, and decides it pleases him ?

[Burt]

Excellent analysis mate. I just can't believe it's all down to what Hughes tells them to do (the pattern). Surely he must see what everone on this board can see as well?

Yes, he can see what everyone else on the board can see.... but what if he looks down upon his new creation, and decides it pleases him ?

And what if all his new players start to gel and the long term injured ones like Robinho, Crocky, Johnson and Ned etc make his new creation a really top team?

[Mr Miyagi]

Excellent analysis mate. I just can't believe it's all down to what Hughes tells them to do (the pattern). Surely he must see what everone on this board can see as well?

Yes, he can see what everyone else on the board can see.... but what if he looks down upon his new creation, and decides it pleases him ?

And what if all his new players start to gel and the long term injured ones like Robinho, Crocky, Johnson and Ned etc make his new creation a really top team?

The (biblical) reference to his "creation" referred to tactics and style of play. The personnel are irrelevant, and not part of the discussion. The thread is about the long ball tactics. It's not a thread about giving Hughes time for his personnel to get together. Plus I suspect a plot to draw me into a Hughes In/Out debate.... there is another thread for that.... and I don't want to be banned.... :-)