WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED?

[Manx Blue]

I think we're a very different team in a lot of ways compared to last season. We have a good attack and a defence that's mostly solid but is still leaking goals, to be expected. Losing Dunne was always going to involve short term pain but with hopefully long term gain. We're about where I thought we'd be.

Robinho has been a huge loss for us, the changes in the team should have brought out the best in him. We've also had plenty of disruptions in the team, disruptions we can ill afford with the need to bed down. A side effect of that has been that we've also been somewhat less willing to experiment and introduce new players. I can't help thinking that Weiss deserves more of a chance.

If the right players become available then we might be able to strengthen. A midfielder might be a good idea, a winger who can play both sides and as a wide forward would be really useful and would do a lot of damage to opposition teams (even in addition to Robinho). More usefully, we could do with a right back, if there's an option out there who's really world class.

Great Post Ronk! Especially Weiss!

I saw him play Northern Ireland for Slovakia and he skinned Jonny Evans. Evans is a good solid prem defender, and despite Weiss maybe not having that final ball just yet, I can't help but think that he could have changed some of the recent games against the likes of Fulham, Birmingham, Burnley to name but a few.

Lets give him a game against Hull, or a good half hour next week, and we may see him change the game for us (?)

[Vhero]

Beefy,
I have tried to look at where I think weaknesses have been over a periond and looked at options to stregthen them. I can't see any defensive improvement with Zabba or Micah in the short term but I have not given up in the longer term. The same with Lescott, we know he is a class player but his partnership with Toure has proved costly.

I understand that we need patience and that we are still "work in progress" but whatever is decided in the next transfer window, only a few weeks away, will define the rest of the season.

Change and strengthening where necessary and continue working with what we've already got to improve it.

I too agree about patience mate but Zabba and Micah ain't been here for only 6 months so Beefy's argument is flawed.

[Tokyo Blue]

I too agree about patience mate but Zabba and Micah ain't been here for only 6 months so Beefy's argument is flawed.

Toure playing next to him however has only been here for three. So your argument is flawed.

[Socrates]

We've learned that draws are next to useless at the top end of the table! Better to win 3 and lose 3 than draw 6. Simple fact - 6 draws = 4 losses.

[Grob]

We've learnt that if you dont send the team out with the intenton to win a football match, then you wont win a football match.

We've also learnt that a fair few of our players need to come to terms with the fact that teams see us as a big scalp now.

[Alex Sapphire]

CONCLUSION...I would be tempted to look for a truly dominating central defender in the transfer window. At full back, I would look at the availability of A replacement for both Micah and Zabba. Most important, I think we are desperate for a truly World class creative midfielder in the mould of Ali Benarbia, who could control the midfield and lead the team round the field.

Terry and Kaka would have look good in 2 of those positions, wouldn't they, so it looks like City anticipated these needs.
Another fullback would strengthen us I agree.

Eto'o would have made us more potent up top which wouldn't harm and I'd also say that while Given is top, his cover isn't. If we could recall Hart we may be in better shape, otherwise I'd be worried if Shay couldn't play

[carl_feedthegoat]

We've learnt that if you dont send the team out with the intenton to win a football match, then you wont win a football match.

We've also learnt that a fair few of our players need to come to terms with the fact that teams see us as a big scalp now.

SPOT ON GROB !!

WE STARTED OUT TO GET A DRAW -UNTIL WE WENT ONE NIL DOWN WE DIDNT EVEN GET INTO SECOND GEAR.

I FIRMLY BELIEV WE HAVE A TEAM OF WINNERS WHO QUITE EASILY COULD GET INTO THE TOP 4.

HUGHES HAS GOT TO TAKE SOME RISKS - SWP HAS CONSISTENTLY GIVEN THE BALL AWAY...IT,S TIME FOR WEISS TO COME ON AND PETRIFY THE PREM....SWP DID IT YEARS AGO...NOW ITS WEISS,S TURN.

TAKE A PUNT HUGHES.......(ACTUALLY IT,S NOT EVEN A PUNT...WEISS IS CLASS.

[dazby]

We have learnt that money doesn't overcome 33 or whatever-it-is years overnight. The mentality is getting there. We are tough to beat, and undefeated at home. We have gained away points we didn't get last season and are undefeated at home.

I would love Leslie to sacrifice this season by demanding that the players hoof the ball ONLY as a LAST RESORT. The constant hoofing is putting too much pressure on our defence. By playing the ball on the deck, we may concede some goals this season, we can become the European powerhouse that the owners and fans crave. The mentality may have improved but the play has to follow.

[Im_Spartacus]

I have learned that you can have the best collection of players in the world, but if you dont have the tactical nous to put them to best use then you might as well not have bothered buying the stars in the first place.

I have learned that talent alone will not produce results, it is only when the talent is directed competently that the results will come. I dont think we are a million miles away, but defensively we have not progressed from last season and it is this which is holding us back.

[Blue Since 76]

We have learnt that money doesn't overcome 33 or whatever-it-is years overnight. The mentality is getting there. We are tough to beat, and undefeated at home. We have gained away points we didn't get last season and are undefeated at home.

I would love Leslie to sacrifice this season by demanding that the players hoof the ball ONLY as a LAST RESORT. The constant hoofing is putting too much pressure on our defence. By playing the ball on the deck, we may concede some goals this season, we can become the European powerhouse that the owners and fans crave. The mentality may have improved but the play has to follow.

This keeps getting mentioned, but I don't see the link. The stadium is 5 years old, Hughes has been with us for 18 months, the owners slightly less and most of the players less than that. The only constant is the fans, so unless we are to blame for the inability to beat Burnley at home, I don't see what relevance 33 years has to anything.

I do agree with the hoofing the ball though. Just cos Adebayor is tall, doesn't mean he wants the ball 2 foot above his head, especially when he's the only one up front. I remember Sven coming out and criticising Hart for kicking the ball long and yet there were fans around me at the time shouting for defenders to just get the ball forward and get it in the box, rather than the patient build up. Maybe we get what we deserve - a £200M Wimbledon.

[Bluez]

We've learnt that if you dont send the team out with the intenton to win a football match, then you wont win a football match.

We've also learnt that a fair few of our players need to come to terms with the fact that teams see us as a big scalp now.

Two excellent points. Yesterday we didn't start playing till we were 1 goal down.

Right now I actually think we need 1 player. I can't work out yet whether I would go for left back or right back, but the worst thing would be to get 3 new players and start all over again with the team trying to settle. It might also help with some of teh player that they might start to believe they will be around for a while if we don't add too much.

Right now the most critical thing is getting the defence settled and sorted, that way we do not need 2 defensive mids and then we could free up Ireland in a more forward role.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

We've learnt that if you dont send the team out with the intenton to win a football match, then you wont win a football match.

We've also learnt that a fair few of our players need to come to terms with the fact that teams see us as a big scalp now.

That's exactly it!

Eversince introduction of three points for win, draws have been "almost losses" rather than "nearly wins". You have to go to every game with mentality that you are going for win if you are planning to challenge big boys.

[Alex Sapphire]

We've learnt that if you dont send the team out with the intenton to win a football match, then you wont win a football match.

We've also learnt that a fair few of our players need to come to terms with the fact that teams see us as a big scalp now.

That's exactly it!

Eversince introduction of three points for win, draws have been "almost losses" rather than "nearly wins". You have to go to every game with mentality that you are going for win if you are planning to challenge big boys.

while I agree that a draw against a side outside the top six is 2 points dropped (your "nearly loss") a draw against a rival, especially at theirs is 3 points gained (i.e. the game is points neutral rather than 3 points lost).
We haven't been set up to beat the poorer sides as often as I'd like but a point at Anfield is good work.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

We've learnt that if you dont send the team out with the intenton to win a football match, then you wont win a football match.

We've also learnt that a fair few of our players need to come to terms with the fact that teams see us as a big scalp now.

That's exactly it!

Eversince introduction of three points for win, draws have been "almost losses" rather than "nearly wins". You have to go to every game with mentality that you are going for win if you are planning to challenge big boys.

while I agree that a draw against a side outside the top six is 2 points dropped (your "nearly loss") a draw against a rival, especially at theirs is 3 points gained (i.e. the game is points neutral rather than 3 points lost).
We haven't been set up to beat the poorer sides as often as I'd like but a point at Anfield is good work.

I wasn't talking so much about yesterday but this season overall. I was satisfied with a point yesterday although I DID think that with different approach we may have been able to take all three. However there have been games where, in my opinion, we have sort of settled for a point in last ten minutes when I thought we should have been going for a win.

Someone posed a question whether I'd rather take two wins and three losses than five straight draws. Give me those two wins any day as it means one more point.

[Alex Sapphire]

We've learnt that if you dont send the team out with the intenton to win a football match, then you wont win a football match.

We've also learnt that a fair few of our players need to come to terms with the fact that teams see us as a big scalp now.

That's exactly it!

Eversince introduction of three points for win, draws have been "almost losses" rather than "nearly wins". You have to go to every game with mentality that you are going for win if you are planning to challenge big boys.

while I agree that a draw against a side outside the top six is 2 points dropped (your "nearly loss") a draw against a rival, especially at theirs is 3 points gained (i.e. the game is points neutral rather than 3 points lost).
We haven't been set up to beat the poorer sides as often as I'd like but a point at Anfield is good work.

I wasn't talking so much about yesterday but this season overall. I was satisfied with a point yesterday although I DID think that with different approach we may have been able to take all three. However there have been games where, in my opinion, we have sort of settled for a point in last ten minutes when I thought we should have been going for a win.

Someone posed a question whether I'd rather take two wins and three losses than five straight draws. Give me those two wins any day as it means one more point.

we're basically in agreement but I'm trying to make the point that if you get your 2 wins you may be 1 point better off, but 3 teams are opening up a 3 point gap on you. If that happens home and away your giving your near rivals 6 points. Draws are not that bad a thing

[john68]

I totally agree about the mentality issue.
The one thing I think was the most important factor when we last won the League was an attitude of "NO FEAR".
It didn't always work for us but we knew every time a City side went on the field, they were setting out to rip the other team to bits.

We need a bit of "SWAGGER"...With the talent available, we need to frighten teams. After '68 the European Champs (rags) were frightened to death of us and it showed.

At the moment, nobody really fears us...We have the talent to do this.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I totally agree about the mentality issue.
The one thing I think was the most important factor when we last won the League was an attitude of "NO FEAR".
It didn't always work for us but we knew every time a City side went on the field, they were setting out to rip the other team to bits.

We need a bit of "SWAGGER"...With the talent available, we need to frighten teams. After '68 the European Champs (rags) were frightened to death of us and it showed.

At the moment, nobody really fears us...We have the talent to do this.

Spot on John.

To some extent I was shocked at how little respect Burnley showed for us and it worked for them fine and dandy. We need to instill some fear to inferior opposition by some good results but frst and foremost playing good quick football our lads are individually well capable of doing.

[john68]

Hahahahaha...are we agreeing about something mate?.....that made me chuckle....:-)

I know I have been critical of some posters on here for carrying the baggage of City's past underachievement but maybe the club itself is still carrying that baggage too.
Maybe the weight of the cost of our squad, the expectation and possibly fear of media criticism is weighing too heavily on our club's shoulders.
Against the likes of Hull I would love to hear Hughes say...."JUST GERROUT THERE AND DESTROY 'EM...TEAR THEIR ARSES OUT"

[Blue Since 76]

I totally agree about the mentality issue.
The one thing I think was the most important factor when we last won the League was an attitude of "NO FEAR".
It didn't always work for us but we knew every time a City side went on the field, they were setting out to rip the other team to bits.

We need a bit of "SWAGGER"...With the talent available, we need to frighten teams. After '68 the European Champs (rags) were frightened to death of us and it showed.

At the moment, nobody really fears us...We have the talent to do this.

Spot on John.

To some extent I was shocked at how little respect Burnley showed for us and it worked for them fine and dandy. We need to instill some fear to inferior opposition by some good results but frst and foremost playing good quick football our lads are individually well capable of doing.

Agree with you both on this. Teams used to be afraid to go to the swamp, as they knew if they weren't at 100%, they could easily get 5 put past them. They would therefore go accepting a 1-0 defeat as a decent result. We haven't earned that right yet, but too many teams are still willing to go at us (Wolves, Fulham, Burnley), whereas the likes of Ireland, SWP, Tevez, Adebayor, Bellamy, RSC and Robinho should be enough for them to play 11 centre halves.

Once teams park the bus, we'll need to work out how to break them down, but lets terrorise a few first, starting with Hull and then moving onto Arsenal's crèche.

[Original Dub]

12 games gone, around a third of the season played, a transfer window opening in a matter of weeks. An opportune time to look at the 1st third and assess "WHAT WE'VE LEARNED", CHANGES WE'D MAKE" and "AREAS WE NEED TO STRENGTHEN"

GOAL... No major critique for me here, GIVEN has done the job pretty well. Some great saves and the expected couple of mistakes.

DEFENCE...TOURE and LESCOTT have not gelled into a unit that dominates and we have been woeful defending set pieces. Toure seems less at fault but Lescott sometimes seems to switch off and we have been badly punished. Both seem to be similar players and maybe we need a Watson type player to take control. I'm not calling time on Lescott, but think we need to accept he hasn't yet done it for us.
I'm reasonably happy with BRIDGE, he seems to have improved of late and hopefully that will continue. Neither MICAH nor ZABBA seem to have been defensively secure and Zabba particularly has been costly, giving free kicks (at much cost) away.

MIDFIELD...BARRY has gone backward recently and doesn't seem to be quite the same player that started the season so securely. Maybe it time to start to give JOHNNO some game time to build up his fitness and give us options. IRELAND needs to be put back into the role he played last season when he was out of this World. Playing the deeper role leaves a huge creative gap for us.
On the wings, SWP has suffered a loss of impact, lots hard work but relatively less final product than we would have expected. On the other wing, we have lost both ROBBIE and his replacement PETROV. Hopefully that problem will be solved shortly.

ATTACK...We have always scored goals so there are no major worries up front.

CONCLUSION...I would be tempted to look for a truly dominating central defender in the transfer window. At full back, I would look at the availability of A replacement for both Micah and Zabba. Most important, I think we are desperate for a truly World class creative midfielder in the mould of Ali Benarbia, who could control the midfield and lead the team round the field.

Given has done "pretty well"?

You knob.

Besides that, I agree completely!