Platini's Master Plan (Split from the bollox)

[Rag_hater]

We are talking about corporate entities not individuals, it really, really doesn't apply Rag H. It would be like a company applying for a human right to be given a contract by another company!!! Not a prayer. And as UEFA's competitions are invitational, it certainly isn't illegal.

All the statements that have been made raise doubt and can be questioned in a court of law.
This is all just lawyer food and preceedents have already been set with allowing clubs to operate under debt and unless all debt is cleared clubs will have to be allowed to carry on in such a manner.
All the questions that have been raised now can only be arbitrated by a judge and that will take years of litigation.
Platini will not be able to introduce any major changes without legal sanction which will be very hard if not impossible for him to get.

[Fidel Castro]

Can't the Sheikh just buy loads of shirts, mugs and cuddly city bears? That way we've got loads of income from merchandise

[Wonderwall]

Can't the Sheikh just buy loads of shirts, mugs and cuddly city bears? That way we've got loads of income from merchandise

ha ha ha I can imagine every bedroom in the palace having a city duvet and curtains.

[john@staustell]

I think we need to back off the idea that UEFA are out to get City. There are much more enticing English targets, even Spanish targets, for his stupidity.

They have proposals aimed specifically at us, or any club like us. They are acting on behalf of a cartel that are seeking to protect their own positions. Get your head out of the sand.

He said 'Manchester City for example' at one point - based on one big summer spend which he will probably have forgotten about by September 2010. However I doubt he actually knows much about us at all, or what our balance sheet will be by 2000 and whatever.

As others point out - firstly I doubt he could beat us in the European court (legally or financially) and secondly we have to qualify for the bloody thing. Also as soon as we get in this 'cartel' we will be the status quo anyway. Not a threat to them, one of them - for better or for worse.

We could always have him sectioned anyway as he is clearly potty!

[Rag_hater]

I think we need to back off the idea that UEFA are out to get City. There are much more enticing English targets, even Spanish targets, for his stupidity.

They have proposals aimed specifically at us, or any club like us. They are acting on behalf of a cartel that are seeking to protect their own positions. Get your head out of the sand.

Article 81 of the European treaty bans the workings of cartels in the EU.
So if they are acting on behalf of this cartel they are breaking the law.

[john68]

Thanks for raising this thread Socs, I believe it is the single most important threat to the future development of our club.
There can be little doubt that it is being driven by the established old order of European G14 clubs, using UeFA as their vehicle.

It is my belief that its root is most probably here in this country, as we pose the most immediate threat to the "Sky4". Possibly instigated by our near neighbours, due to their very precarious financial position. Proving that may be difficult though.

I am a tad more positive about this situation, in that I cannot see our ownwers standing by and simply allowing this to happen. Our owners are not idiots and I think are already on the case to ensure this particular threat is negated.

This does not mean that the cartel clubs or UeFA may not look at other methods to halt us in particular and others like us who may follow.

[Socrates]

Thanks for raising this thread Socs, I believe it is the single most important threat to the future development of our club.
There can be little doubt that it is being driven by the established old order of European G14 clubs, using UeFA as their vehicle.

It is my belief that its root is most probably here in this country, as we pose the most immediate threat to the "Sky4". Possibly instigated by our near neighbours, due to their very precarious financial position. Proving that may be difficult though.

I am a tad more positive about this situation, in that I cannot see our ownwers standing by and simply allowing this to happen. Our owners are not idiots and I think are already on the case to ensure this particular threat is negated.

This does not mean that the cartel clubs or UeFA may not look at other methods to halt us in particular and others like us who may follow.

The problem may have originated from the old G14 clubs plus Chelsea, but the solution as put forward will appeal to clubs right across the board when it comes to the European Club Association. With the new ECL play off system, individual clubs in many smaller countries are gaining massive financial advantages over their compatriot clubs as even a single year's qualification will give them several years worth income in one lump sum. They too will see this as an opportunity to entrench that new found advantage. I honestly cannot see how this can be stopped.

We already saw our owner's reaction to this threat - spend quickly and spend big. Try to beat them to the punch. Depending how it is introduced, we have a limited time scale to do that. Put simply - we have to get a year in the ECL proper prior to introduction. It's possible that could mean having to be in it next season. At best we have one more season to get there. Possibly Hughes has information indicating we have a season in hand yet, hence the statement. I fucking hope so as I cannot see us getting there this season...

[john68]

I totally agree that this threat is a very real one and that there is a time scale that we have to work to in order to beat them to the punch.
Maybe it is my natural optimism but I don't believe our owners would be foolish enough to put all their eggs in one basket.
I think CL qualification maybe a necessity this season to expand our international profile and increase income opportunities but again, my natural optimism makes me think we will do that.
I think our owners will already be working on several fronts to ensure we have political and financial friends when it comes to the crunch.
If the rag's financial muscle is seen to wain, as i believe it will in the near future, it is quite likely that the established cartel will embrace us and what we have to offer, more readily than the rags who they may identify as being in difficulties.

Should the rags be seen to be financially weaker, I think their "friends" would see them as a carcasse to pick over for players(?) but more certainly their worldwide markets and wavering, fickle fanbase.

Maybe the picture, though threatening, is not as bleak as ot presently looks.

[stinky pete]

were did real madrid get all there money from this summer? the frog loved tranny going there never said anything about £80million for one player then . sep blatter and the frog went ape when we whent for kaka. they hate the english game, bet hes praying that we dont get all four english teams in semi,s. it will happen .

[Wonderwall]

were did real madrid get all there money from this summer? the frog loved tranny going there never said anything about £80million for one player then . sep blatter and the frog went ape when we whent for kaka. they hate the english game, bet hes praying that we dont get all four english teams in semi,s. it will happen .

not this season it wont stinky, liverpool are done for

[Socrates]

I totally agree that this threat is a very real one and that there is a time scale that we have to work to in order to beat them to the punch.
Maybe it is my natural optimism but I don't believe our owners would be foolish enough to put all their eggs in one basket.
I think CL qualification maybe a necessity this season to expand our international profile and increase income opportunities but again, my natural optimism makes me think we will do that.
I think our owners will already be working on several fronts to ensure we have political and financial friends when it comes to the crunch.
If the rag's financial muscle is seen to wain, as i believe it will in the near future, it is quite likely that the established cartel will embrace us and what we have to offer, more readily than the rags who they may identify as being in difficulties.

Should the rags be seen to be financially weaker, I think their "friends" would see them as a carcasse to pick over for players(?) but more certainly their worldwide markets and wavering, fickle fanbase.

Maybe the picture, though threatening, is not as bleak as ot presently looks.

I don't think there is another basket John. These proposals are in the interests of all the G14 AND the vast majority of the 103 clubs in the European Club Association. There is no legal recourse possible, those trying to rely on Article 81 are whistling in the dark as it doesn't effect trade across borders in any way, doesn't fix prices and doesn't in itself limit a market - UEFA can set it's own rules and it would be possible - in theory at least - to access their competitions by cutting our expenditure to meet our income. Quite simply, there is no legal basis to this and no hope at all of finding "friends" to help us stop it.

The mistake you are making is in thinking that clubs will simply weigh up whether they prefer us as a better bet than our English rivals. The reality is that Real and Barca will vote for this as it is a one off opportunity to see off the likes of Valencia once and for all and Bayern will vote for it to see off the threat of clubs like Wolfsberg - and that will go right through to those clubs for smaller countries who have new ECL money and can entrench their position as top dog in their countries.

[john68]

The point you make regarding the cartel clubs seeing it as a way to see off their own domestic rivals is a point well made and one I had not considered.

However, I still believe that our owners have tremendously powerful political and financial muscles on the World stage and having invested many £100Ms, they would quite readily use those muscles to protect their investment at City.

I am certain they could make enough and big enough waves economically to have quite large countries fear them, let alone UeFA and a few rather indebted European football clubs.

What we have seen from our owners is their pleasant side, we have yet to see their claws and I am sure they have them...BIG ONES.

[Socrates]

The point you make regarding the cartel clubs seeing it as a way to see off their own domestic rivals is a point well made and one I had not considered.

However, I still believe that our owners have tremendously powerful political and financial muscles on the World stage and having invested many £100Ms, they would quite readily use those muscles to protect their investment at City.

I am certain they could make enough and big enough waves economically to have quite large countries fear them, let alone UeFA and a few rather indebted European football clubs.

What we have seen from our owners is their pleasant side, we have yet to see their claws and I am sure they have them...BIG ONES.

No way will they see us as worth ruining their international image for John. They will continue to conduct themselves with a calm dignity, same as their cousin does when his horses come 2nd to the Irish. They have much bigger deals than us to protect and, don't forget, we are privately owned by Mansour not by the Government as a whole. If the plan doesn't come to full fruition they will just smile and make the best of it. It is only the likes of us that will be in tears.

[john68]

Not wholly convinced of that Mate.
I wouldn't suggest for one moment that they would do anything that was anything less than above board. I simply think they have the muscle to exert without the need for anything underhand.

However, all of that is mere conjecture and we have to live with the reality that we are presently under threat.

[Rag_hater]

Until debt actually becomes illegal,Platini and his supporters in Europe can have as many grand and noble ideas about there being financial fairness as they want.The fact of the matter is they cannot regulate how clubs get there money and how they spend it.
It may be a private members club but they have to adhere to the legislation of the country they are operating in.
And it will never become illegal to borrow money.

[Socrates]

Until debt actually becomes illegal,Platini and his supporters in Europe can have as many grand and noble ideas about there being financial fairness as they want.The fact of the matter is they cannot regulate how clubs get there money and how they spend it.
It may be a private members club but they have to adhere to the legislation of the country they are operating in.
And it will never become illegal to borrow money.

Has nothing to do with debt. They cannot regulate where anyone gets money from, no one is saying that. But they can say whether the rules have met for entering their own competitions! If we spend more than our qualifying earnings, under their rules, they will disqualify us, simple as that.

[Socrates]

Not wholly convinced of that Mate.
I wouldn't suggest for one moment that they would do anything that was anything less than above board. I simply think they have the muscle to exert without the need for anything underhand.

However, all of that is mere conjecture and we have to live with the reality that we are presently under threat.

Just not their way mate, honestly it isn't. And they just have no muscle to flex when it comes to owners of other football clubs. If they were afraid they wouldn't be taking them on in the first place!

[Rag_hater]

Until debt actually becomes illegal,Platini and his supporters in Europe can have as many grand and noble ideas about there being financial fairness as they want.The fact of the matter is they cannot regulate how clubs get there money and how they spend it.
It may be a private members club but they have to adhere to the legislation of the country they are operating in.
And it will never become illegal to borrow money.

Has nothing to do with debt. They cannot regulate where anyone gets money from, no one is saying that. But they can say whether the rules have met for entering their own competitions! If we spend more than our qualifying earnings, under their rules, they will disqualify us, simple as that.

Has everything to do with debt.Platini's gripe is that clubs are borrowing to much money and living beyond their means.
And if he thinks he can change the laws on finance he is mistaken.

[john@staustell]

Until debt actually becomes illegal,Platini and his supporters in Europe can have as many grand and noble ideas about there being financial fairness as they want.The fact of the matter is they cannot regulate how clubs get there money and how they spend it.
It may be a private members club but they have to adhere to the legislation of the country they are operating in.
And it will never become illegal to borrow money.

Has nothing to do with debt. They cannot regulate where anyone gets money from, no one is saying that. But they can say whether the rules have met for entering their own competitions! If we spend more than our qualifying earnings, under their rules, they will disqualify us, simple as that.

Has everything to do with debt.Platini's gripe is that clubs are borrowing to much money and living beyond their means.
And if he thinks he can change the laws on finance he is mistaken.

The Mad Frog's gripe seems to be ENGLISH clubs that are borrowing too much money etc. This obviously does not apply to Spanish or Italian clubs. When we came along he added a further gripe for the benefit of us and Chelsea - clubs shouldn't have a rich owner if they're English.

[Slim]

Probably stems from the fact that there's not a slew of rich billionaires looking to buy up french clubs.