The System we are using

[Dubaimancityfan]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

Are you saying we miss Elano ?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

What is wrong with the system? What system should we play?

One that makes us look at least as good as Birmingham City? 4-2-3-1 is supposed to be the system Hughes was looking to play but for some reason he has reverted to the outdated flat 4-4-2 he used to employ at Dirty Darwen. Maybe the defeat at the Swamp has scarred him in the way that the Liverpool fightback seemed to last season. He needs to stay bold and not retreat.

Exactly.
We started the season well, playing good and fairly adventurous football and I genuinely thought we were building something here. One loss and he started shitting it and changed it to his "good old system". I said from the very beginning that THAT SYSTEM IS NEVER GOING TO WORK IF WE ARE AIMING FOR TOP. I could deal with few losses if we are building something but right now we are regressing by each game (forget Scunthorpe).

[edge275]

What is wrong with the system? What system should we play?

Well it obviously isn't working for starters!?!

where is it going wrong, everyone is carrying on like they have all the answers, then where are they?

Here are the answers:

We need to play a form of 4-3-3 which is 4-1-2-2-1

He needs to play form players and drop out of form players.

Out of form - Lescott, SWP

In form - Petrov

Weiss needs to start playing instead of SWP for now.

He needs to start bringing Michael johnson on towards the end of matches (especially when we're drawing/losing).

Here is the team he should be looking to play once everyone is fit:

-------------------------Given------------------------

Zabaleta--------Toure-------Lescott--------Bridge

--------------------------Barry------------------------

---------------Ireland------------Johnson-----------

---Tevez------------------------------------Robinho--

-------------------------Adebayor----------------------


If any of those are injured or suffer loss of form then replace accordingly.

Also dont put RSC anywhere near the squad.

[bluemoon]

where is it going wrong, everyone is carrying on like they have all the answers, then where are they?

Here are the answers:

We need to play a form of 4-3-3 which is 4-1-2-2-1

He needs to play form players and drop out of form players.

Out of form - Lescott, SWP

In form - Petrov

Weiss needs to start playing instead of SWP for now.

He needs to start bringing Michael johnson on towards the end of matches (especially when we're drawing/losing).

Here is the team he should be looking to play once everyone is fit:

-------------------------Given------------------------

Zabaleta--------Toure-------Lescott--------Bridge

--------------------------Barry------------------------

---------------Ireland------------Johnson-----------

---Tevez------------------------------------Robinho--

-------------------------Adebayor----------------------


If any of those are injured or suffer loss of form then replace accordingly.

Also dont put RSC anywhere near the squad.

Definetly worth a go, but you know Hughes will never go with that.

[Dameerto]

concerning Petrov Im around 90% sure he didnt start today because of that knock that kept him out of our last game - I would bet someone else's mortgage on him starting our next match (assuming he got through today without problems)

[Wonderwall]

Here are the answers:

We need to play a form of 4-3-3 which is 4-1-2-2-1

You want 1 holding midfielder and not 2? Would you play that away from home at places like Stamford bridge and old trafford where we would get passed to death?

He needs to play form players and drop out of form players.

Out of form - Lescott, SWP

In form - Petrov

Weiss needs to start playing instead of SWP for now.

You cannot drop Lescott unless you have a replacement, which we do not, Kompany is not a replacement IMO, he is a stand in.

Petrov was carrying a knock, otherwise he would have started. SWP didnt have a bad game today, he was our best attacking threat. Dropping him for Weiss is an option, but who said Weiss is on form? Weiss will get some minutes soon enough.

He needs to start bringing Michael johnson on towards the end of matches (especially when we're drawing/losing).

Ireland was brought on to be the one to unlock them, who would you have taken off for Johnson?

Here is the team he should be looking to play once everyone is fit:

-------------------------Given------------------------

Zabaleta--------Toure-------Lescott--------Bridge

--------------------------Barry------------------------

---------------Ireland------------Johnson-----------

---Tevez------------------------------------Robinho--

-------------------------Adebayor----------------------


If any of those are injured or suffer loss of form then replace accordingly.

Also dont put RSC anywhere near the squad.

I agree with that line up, what are the odds of all those players being fit at the same time?

[Original Dub]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

I hoped we were wrong about Hughes but I'm starting to fear that the original analysis was accurate :O(

Our good start is keeping us up there but can't help feeling we are 4th by default and that we need to see a huge improvement to keep us there.

Hold on hold on.... you STARTED to fear from the moment you were born I reckon. The only time you show up on here is to grace us with your "my fears are coming true", "it turns out I was right all along".

No mate, you are wrong AGAIN. The facts are that although we haven't yet fully shaped as a team, we are fourth with a game in hand. That is completely the truth.

The rest is just total BULLSHIT from doom and gloom muppets.

[edge275]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

I hoped we were wrong about Hughes but I'm starting to fear that the original analysis was accurate :O(

Our good start is keeping us up there but can't help feeling we are 4th by default and that we need to see a huge improvement to keep us there.

Hold on hold on.... you STARTED to fear from the moment you were born I reckon. The only time you show up on here is to grace us with your "my fears are coming true", "it turns out I was right all along".

No mate, you are wrong AGAIN. The facts are that although we haven't yet fully shaped as a team, we are fourth with a game in hand. That is completely the truth.

The rest is just total BULLSHIT from doom and gloom muppets.

Where is your 4k milestone post?

[Spurge]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

I hoped we were wrong about Hughes but I'm starting to fear that the original analysis was accurate :O(

Our good start is keeping us up there but can't help feeling we are 4th by default and that we need to see a huge improvement to keep us there.

I like that, it's almost sounds like you want us to be shit. We are 4th with a game in hand on most of those around us. Of our 10 league games, 6 have been away from home and we've been beaten once only.

Now that probably makes me a 'happy clapper' as NQDP refers to, that fine by me I doubt in anywalk of lfe I'll ever be as depressing as he is anyway.

Today was a very poor performance and no City fan can call it otherwise. Who's to blame? Well I'm not going to blame Hughes unlike certain people on here, for me the responsibility today lies solely with the players. These are quality players we are talking about (most of you have agreed on this at one time or another) with a wealth of experience, most of them, no all of them with international experience. To keep thumping it long was plain stupidity, there's no way Hughes asked them to do this or gave them the green light to be outmussled in the middle of the pitch or make fundemental errors.

Of course Santa Cruz was disappointing, any player who is returning to fitness and has been ill with a virus is unlikley to be in a postition to show off his full range of talents, but equally he was undeniably poor and showed next to nothing in terms of ability and comitment, also worrying to see him with his knee so heavily strapped. Perhaps there will be a case to say that RSC was a Hughes error over time, it looks like that may be the case but it is still too early to be certain of this.

As someone pointed out after the departure of RSC today, we continued to throw the long ball down the middle, largely because we were either clearing our lines under pressure (which we had brought on ourselves) or becasue we were simply choosing the wrong option - does Hughes tell them to play like this? I seriously doubt it. Hughes would demand that we show for each other, movement off the ball a quick tempo, condense the play where required to do so and ensure that we play with width and use the pace that we undoubtedly have in abundance - the players didn't rise to the challenge simple as.

I think, unlike NQDP that our Arab owners are comitted to give Hughes every chance and will back him, they will be talking and listening to the right people and will want Hughes to be to City what bacon face has become to the rags, they will know from city history that changing your manager every 10 mins is not necessarily the right route to take on the road to success. They will know that we are fourth tonight with a game in hand on most teams on merit and not by default.

[Original Dub]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

I hoped we were wrong about Hughes but I'm starting to fear that the original analysis was accurate :O(

Our good start is keeping us up there but can't help feeling we are 4th by default and that we need to see a huge improvement to keep us there.

Hold on hold on.... you STARTED to fear from the moment you were born I reckon. The only time you show up on here is to grace us with your "my fears are coming true", "it turns out I was right all along".

No mate, you are wrong AGAIN. The facts are that although we haven't yet fully shaped as a team, we are fourth with a game in hand. That is completely the truth.

The rest is just total BULLSHIT from doom and gloom muppets.

Where is your 4k milestone post?

Ah bollox, forgot all about it.

Thanks to everyone.

There. Done.

[Socrates]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

I hoped we were wrong about Hughes but I'm starting to fear that the original analysis was accurate :O(

Our good start is keeping us up there but can't help feeling we are 4th by default and that we need to see a huge improvement to keep us there.

Hold on hold on.... you STARTED to fear from the moment you were born I reckon. The only time you show up on here is to grace us with your "my fears are coming true", "it turns out I was right all along".

No mate, you are wrong AGAIN. The facts are that although we haven't yet fully shaped as a team, we are fourth with a game in hand. That is completely the truth.

The rest is just total BULLSHIT from doom and gloom muppets.

Utter cobblers old chap, I've always been a natural optimist and always will be. Doesn't mean I cannot manage a rational analysis though. 7 points in 6 games and a few drab performances indicate that we are very unlikely to maintain 4th place for long. I hope I am wrong. Sadly, I rarely am!

[zuricity]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

You're joking. Hughes doesn't have a system. Otherwise we would be systematic and produce results.

This team does not play football.

[M147WN]

Title of the thread is about the system we're playing and imo whatever it is looks pretty disjointed to be honest but I'd like to offer a few points for discussion on various aspects of what need looking at.

Deep in his own half, time and again Lescott finds himself with 10-15 yds clear in front of him and instead of heading into this space which promotes movement ahead from midfield and offers him an option, he plays the ball long which is mostly intercepted and we lose posession. Is the reason for this that no midfielder really wants the ball short with a view to building from the centre of the park? Last few games has seen no creative player with enough confidence to take on that role & give defence an option for building from a central point. Or is Lescotts confidence level at a low ebb and he feels safer getting the ball down field "route 1". Or is Lescott not capable of seeing 2 or 3 moves ahead which move us forward without playing route 1? All 3 apply recently!

Next one is so schoolboy its untrue but we lose posession because of it 8-10 times during a game! Throw ins! More often than not go long down the line and because we have wide players who won't win this ball in the air it drags forward players across and out of position from their more central roles - cruz did this all day and won fuck all wide and we created nothing!
Sure the thrower gives it "the eyes" down the line but if a midfielder hangs a little deeper then moves level with the thrower the square ball is a far better option! hardly ever employed but works 9 times out of 10! There's nothing in the rule book which says it must go down the line! We lose so much valuable possession because there's no thought given at throws!

Full backs overlapping the winger? It hardly ever happens when we go down either flank! gives the wide player so many more options as the full back takes a defender with him, even if its a well marshelled back line that step up, the defending full back often drops (or hesitates and thinks about it) and goes with an overlapping atacking fullback with opens up all kinds of options for the wide man with the ball!

I can think of a few more but just a few observations of late which don't make things any easier for us!
Oh and as for what system we're playing? I can't see any well founded recognised 'system'! No creative player in central midfield role but 2 (1 very) defensive mids against Birmingham? And a la Fulham when Ireland was introduced was completely bypassed by 60yrd balls flying over his head?
You tell me!

[Vantage]

Good Points

Playing like shite and 4th in the Premier League - drawing games we would have lost last season.

Bad Points

Ireland and SWP have gone off the boil and need to sit a few games out.
Our players and Hughes's system doesn't work - I can sort of see what he's trying to do but the opposition have got him sussed i.e. we attack with wingers and strikers with support from the wing backs, which makes a waste of Barry as a mid field playmaker.
The back four haven't gelled at all most improved player award goes to Bridge though.
If Santa Cruz was a car he'd be two wrecks welded together with a dodgy chassis plate and 275,000 miles passed off as a minter - he makes Corradi look like Usain Bolt. Rolando Bianchi would be ideal in this role

I think this will be Hughes last season in charge. It's not that I don't like him but i think the tactics are beyond him (like Sven no plan B) and his coaching staff. The owners will expect top 6 minimum and if we don't get our shit together we could go into free fall.

OK smart arse what would you do? - Injuries permitting. I would play Kompany as the holding midfielder with Barry playing behind Tevez and Adebayour as strikers, Robbie on the right wing and Bellamy/Petrov on the left wing. I'd also mount huge bids for Torres and Hangeland in January. I'd also stop Bridge and Zabs overlapping, they'd be banned from crossing the halfway line unless springing a break from an opposition corner. If we need a goal with 15 mins to go I'd also chuck Weiss on.

With the players we have we should be killing teams like Birmingham. Wigan and Fulham, but it seems we are still very much in transition.

[Colin the King]

My issue with the current system is that it's not conducive to possession orientated, fluent football- which is the kind of football our players are born to play. We have players with excellent spacial awareness and good ability on the ball- Adebayor, Ireland, Tevez, Robinho. Playing a one dimensional 4-4-2 is OK in certain circumstances- like at the Emirates or Old Trafford where you concede possession and look to win/draw games on the counterattack. When at home or in 'easier' away games like Birmingham this afternoon we need to completely dictate the play and have the opposition trying to snatch a sneaky goal.

When Ireland's on the pitch, his strong points are not utilised because half the time the ball is going from the defence straight to either our striker(s) or the other team's defence. We can be much more effective through keeping the ball on the deck and Ireland, Tevez, Robinho and creating opportunities and making penetrating runs. Like I said in a different thread a few days ago, carelessness in possession is causing a lot of the pressure we see the defenders put under. If they are instructed to keep it simple and pass it to the nearest available player, we'll see a lot of that pressure vanish.

I'm not arguing against physicality, because it and counterattacking tactics can be crucial- but only in certain circumstances.

[Original Dub]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

I hoped we were wrong about Hughes but I'm starting to fear that the original analysis was accurate :O(

Our good start is keeping us up there but can't help feeling we are 4th by default and that we need to see a huge improvement to keep us there.

Hold on hold on.... you STARTED to fear from the moment you were born I reckon. The only time you show up on here is to grace us with your "my fears are coming true", "it turns out I was right all along".

No mate, you are wrong AGAIN. The facts are that although we haven't yet fully shaped as a team, we are fourth with a game in hand. That is completely the truth.

The rest is just total BULLSHIT from doom and gloom muppets.

Utter cobblers old chap, I've always been a natural optimist and always will be. Doesn't mean I cannot manage a rational analysis though. 7 points in 6 games and a few drab performances indicate that we are very unlikely to maintain 4th place for long. I hope I am wrong. Sadly, I rarely am!

Mate you've been wrong with pretty much every prediction so far. We'll play like the butchers of Blackburn? We won't draw big names under hughes? Our academy is ruined?

I agree, we've had bad performances, time to get some form going.

there, now THAT's rationality in its finest form.

[Original Dub]

Pretty crap I'd say.

I'm not saying Hughes out, eventhough I think this will be his final season in charge. Let's face it, the system he insist on playing will never get us consistently results on places like this and to get where Sheik is aiming that is a must. He made all the excuses last season and promised to deliver this season. I see individually better players in system Blackburn were using. Absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park. The distances between attack and defence are constantly too long. And now that we got Santa Cruz there, it was clear why he was bought.

I'm sure the usual happy clappers will be here telling what a massive result this was and had it not been ref/Barry Ferguson/ McLEish's dog we would've won.

You're joking. Hughes doesn't have a system. Otherwise we would be systematic and produce results.

This team does not play football.

That's right, the team doesn't play football. We beat Arsenal with abuse and bad language, not fluent football.

Stop being so fucking silly and ungrateful for our league position.

[Blueboylewis]

We NEED TO USE A 4-3-3!!

4-4-2 just doesnt suit city! We have attacking players and they can not benefit from a 4-4-2. With 4-3-3, We will be able to have 3 front men moving around wanting the ball. We can have two wide strikers e.g. Bellamy, Robinho, Tevez, Roque? Hopefully when they have the ball at there feet they will be able to put in a DECENT cross to our Target man Ade or Roque who can hopefully head it in. IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE lol.

The thing which i am starting to get worried about is that we dont have a provider that is capable of crossing a ball past the first man. Petrov is a good crosser yes but isnt really in Hughes's plans for first team at the moment. Weiss can cross yes but he isnt getting a chance to show what he can do!!

If i was Hughes i would have a sit down and think about playing 4-3-3 and what players would fit that formation and pick players that will be able to make an impact!! Have barry,ireland and de jong in midfield, That would be a solid midfield and they are capable pf covering the 2 full backs. Give bellers, ade and tevez a go again and have tevez and bellers cutting inside and supporting Ade.

The next thing is that at times we do not look creative. We sit back knocking it about looking for an opening and then when we are in our own quarter we have to boot it all the way upfield and we have to start again!! We need people to use the flanks to make runs and creative runs through the middle that will eventually catch out there defense!

Any comments?

[Vantage]

We NEED TO USE A 4-3-3!!

4-4-2 just doesnt suit city! We have attacking players and they can not benefit from a 4-4-2. With 4-3-3, We will be able to have 3 front men moving around wanting the ball. We can have two wide strikers e.g. Bellamy, Robinho, Tevez, Roque? Hopefully when they have the ball at there feet they will be able to put in a DECENT cross to our Target man Ade or Roque who can hopefully head it in. IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE lol.

The thing which i am starting to get worried about is that we dont have a provider that is capable of crossing a ball past the first man. Petrov is a good crosser yes but isnt really in Hughes's plans for first team at the moment. Weiss can cross yes but he isnt getting a chance to show what he can do!!

If i was Hughes i would have a sit down and think about playing 4-3-3 and what players would fit that formation and pick players that will be able to make an impact!! Have barry,ireland and de jong in midfield, That would be a solid midfield and they are capable pf covering the 2 full backs. Give bellers, ade and tevez a go again and have tevez and bellers cutting inside and supporting Ade.

The next thing is that at times we do not look creative. We sit back knocking it about looking for an opening and then when we are in our own quarter we have to boot it all the way upfield and we have to start again!! We need people to use the flanks to make runs and creative runs through the middle that will eventually catch out there defense!

Any comments?

Lewis in, Leslie Out

The only tweak is I'd have Kompany playing the holding role with Barry and De Jong, Ireland to come off the bench for the strikers

[Blueboylewis]

We NEED TO USE A 4-3-3!!

4-4-2 just doesnt suit city! We have attacking players and they can not benefit from a 4-4-2. With 4-3-3, We will be able to have 3 front men moving around wanting the ball. We can have two wide strikers e.g. Bellamy, Robinho, Tevez, Roque? Hopefully when they have the ball at there feet they will be able to put in a DECENT cross to our Target man Ade or Roque who can hopefully head it in. IT IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE lol.

The thing which i am starting to get worried about is that we dont have a provider that is capable of crossing a ball past the first man. Petrov is a good crosser yes but isnt really in Hughes's plans for first team at the moment. Weiss can cross yes but he isnt getting a chance to show what he can do!!

If i was Hughes i would have a sit down and think about playing 4-3-3 and what players would fit that formation and pick players that will be able to make an impact!! Have barry,ireland and de jong in midfield, That would be a solid midfield and they are capable pf covering the 2 full backs. Give bellers, ade and tevez a go again and have tevez and bellers cutting inside and supporting Ade.

The next thing is that at times we do not look creative. We sit back knocking it about looking for an opening and then when we are in our own quarter we have to boot it all the way upfield and we have to start again!! We need people to use the flanks to make runs and creative runs through the middle that will eventually catch out there defense!

Any comments?

Lewis in, Leslie Out

The only tweak is I'd have Kompany playing the holding role with Barry and De Jong, Ireland to come off the bench for the strikers

Haha cheers pal, I would gladly take the role lol.

You make a fair point. I just think to myself, Have we got anything creative in midfield?? To me that looks like a bit of a defensive midfield. A great midfield to use if we are playing against a big team e.g chelsea but against the likes of hull,burnley, blackburn, e.g e.g, We need Ireland on so he can spark up the midfield and support the strikers!