so, hughes needs to change it, what options?

[Socrates]

Haha nice to see RIG back he really does raise a laugh when you most need it.

So I decided to post on this thread out of them all. As is well known I like to be positive whenever possible but at the same time I think I am fairly realistic about where we are and what's going on. Obviously on the positive side we are not losing games which we would have done last year when not playing well but I fear there are a few negatives which are getting a full airing on here.

The last 3 away game draws in isolation haven't been bad results really unless you have the belief that just because we have spent zillions we should smash almost any other team.If I remember correctly 3 managers in a row ( O'Neil , Martinez and now McLeish) have heaped praise onto their team saying how excellently that have played etc etc and yet we havent lost!!

What is concerning though is that we haven't posed enough of a threat in these games. OK we have a few chances and some other situations which just lack a final pass. We seem to be fairly ok on the wings but very little is happening down the middle. Ade hasn't been in good form after his lay off , RSC isn't fully ready yet and really needs somebody playing close with him and Tevez... well it isn't quite happening for him yet either. He does some good stuff but if he is to be considered a central strike partner he needs to be up there a lot more.

If the front 2 in a 4.4.2 system arent playing well there is a problem especially when the 2 midfield players don't really get alongside and past them much if at all. As I and many others have said before I don't think 4.4.2 suits our players but if we stick with it we need miles better performances from the front 2 plus I would say a different playmaking central midfielder , namely Stevie.

There has been all the talk about the team gelling but for me the gelling is more about the manager finding out about the players we have and the best way to use them. So far not so good on that front.

And also irrespective of the system we play I want to see braver team selections. Form and fitness should count for a lot. Players out of form should be replaced if the sub is in good form and the same should happen if the player isn't fully fit. Maybe he has to do more of that and we might see Weiss quite soon.

yes, yes and yes! Doug.
On the first - It's the performances that are baffling, if we were creating loads and teams were holding on for draws then I doubt we'd be having much debate.
On the second and third points - we seems to be getting worse not better and it's worrying. RSC's presence just doesn't make sense with the way the rest of the team is put together. Can't work out the Tafia's thinking on this at all.

[dazby]

I think the idea was to outpace them with our speed. Long balls in an attempt to get behind and then find Rocky's head.''

However, the passing just isn't accurate enough. If Sweep zigged when he zags he'd be much better. For some reason he tries to trick players by running back into them.

The tactic. Whatever formation. Keep the ball on the deck. Short passing at a high tempo. The players are skilful enough to do it. Use a high ball to Rocky as an alternative, not the majority ball.

[DoomMerchant]

Kompany was as bad as Lescott today - his passing/distribution was crap.

also looked like Kompany was running in treacle at times, he is quick once he has built up his speed but he is awful from a standing start. We were lucky he didnt cost us a couple of goals today with his poor decision making.

did you see what appeared to be Bellamy freak out at Kompany during the match and the camera flashed at Vinnie who then yells in Bellamy's direction to "shut the fuck up and play"?

im pretty sure that's what happened, but did anyone else catch that? i think it was towards the end when Vinnie made a meal out of a ball in the box and hit it out for a corner. ANyone remember or catch this?

i wasn't impressed with Kompany yesterday. he's going to need sometime to get fit, but that's the story we've been telling in defense of half the sqaud all season so far it seems.

[Original Dub]

forget tactics Hughes needs to go, Hughes and tactics don't go together Hughes tactics put 11 men on the field and hpoe we win

do us all a favour pal and do one......

So you want Hughes to stay you must be a rag, all us true CITY fans want him gone.Our last 6 managers did not have 200m to spend and they got the sack playing shit just like we are playing now.

:)

True city fan indeed.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Haha nice to see RIG back he really does raise a laugh when you most need it.

So I decided to post on this thread out of them all. As is well known I like to be positive whenever possible but at the same time I think I am fairly realistic about where we are and what's going on. Obviously on the positive side we are not losing games which we would have done last year when not playing well but I fear there are a few negatives which are getting a full airing on here.

The last 3 away game draws in isolation haven't been bad results really unless you have the belief that just because we have spent zillions we should smash almost any other team.If I remember correctly 3 managers in a row ( O'Neil , Martinez and now McLeish) have heaped praise onto their team saying how excellently that have played etc etc and yet we havent lost!!

What is concerning though is that we haven't posed enough of a threat in these games. OK we have a few chances and some other situations which just lack a final pass. We seem to be fairly ok on the wings but very little is happening down the middle. Ade hasn't been in good form after his lay off , RSC isn't fully ready yet and really needs somebody playing close with him and Tevez... well it isn't quite happening for him yet either. He does some good stuff but if he is to be considered a central strike partner he needs to be up there a lot more.

If the front 2 in a 4.4.2 system arent playing well there is a problem especially when the 2 midfield players don't really get alongside and past them much if at all. As I and many others have said before I don't think 4.4.2 suits our players but if we stick with it we need miles better performances from the front 2 plus I would say a different playmaking central midfielder , namely Stevie.

There has been all the talk about the team gelling but for me the gelling is more about the manager finding out about the players we have and the best way to use them. So far not so good on that front.

And also irrespective of the system we play I want to see braver team selections. Form and fitness should count for a lot. Players out of form should be replaced if the sub is in good form and the same should happen if the player isn't fully fit. Maybe he has to do more of that and we might see Weiss quite soon.

Good post. Agree with all of that.

[Wonderwall]

Haha nice to see RIG back he really does raise a laugh when you most need it.

So I decided to post on this thread out of them all. As is well known I like to be positive whenever possible but at the same time I think I am fairly realistic about where we are and what's going on. Obviously on the positive side we are not losing games which we would have done last year when not playing well but I fear there are a few negatives which are getting a full airing on here.

The last 3 away game draws in isolation haven't been bad results really unless you have the belief that just because we have spent zillions we should smash almost any other team.If I remember correctly 3 managers in a row ( O'Neil , Martinez and now McLeish) have heaped praise onto their team saying how excellently that have played etc etc and yet we havent lost!!

What is concerning though is that we haven't posed enough of a threat in these games. OK we have a few chances and some other situations which just lack a final pass. We seem to be fairly ok on the wings but very little is happening down the middle. Ade hasn't been in good form after his lay off , RSC isn't fully ready yet and really needs somebody playing close with him and Tevez... well it isn't quite happening for him yet either. He does some good stuff but if he is to be considered a central strike partner he needs to be up there a lot more.

If the front 2 in a 4.4.2 system arent playing well there is a problem especially when the 2 midfield players don't really get alongside and past them much if at all. As I and many others have said before I don't think 4.4.2 suits our players but if we stick with it we need miles better performances from the front 2 plus I would say a different playmaking central midfielder , namely Stevie.

There has been all the talk about the team gelling but for me the gelling is more about the manager finding out about the players we have and the best way to use them. So far not so good on that front.

And also irrespective of the system we play I want to see braver team selections. Form and fitness should count for a lot. Players out of form should be replaced if the sub is in good form and the same should happen if the player isn't fully fit. Maybe he has to do more of that and we might see Weiss quite soon.

I think the fact that Ireland and Richards have been benched shows that Hughes thinks their form is not good enough. I would like to think that it is the responsibility of the players as much as the manager to understand their team-mates and how they like to play and what makes them tick on the field.

[AlpsMaster]

I also very much agree with Doug's post above (although I won't requote this time) which makes a refeshing change from all the glass one third empty brigade.

The player I think we missed most yesterday was Toure.

When he captains the side we definitely don't see as much resorting to the long ball as the default option rather than a well considered alternative.

Great sides have great spines and with Given - Toure - Ireland - Adebayor we have got a very firm spine indeed. The converse seems to be that without them we can be somewhat spineless in more ways than one.

[Bluez]

I also very much agree with Doug's post above (although I won't requote this time) which makes a refeshing change from all the glass one third empty brigade.

The player I think we missed most yesterday was Toure.

When he captains the side we definitely don't see as much resorting to the long ball as the default option rather than a well considered alternative.

Great sides have great spines and with Given - Toure - Ireland - Adebayor we have got a very firm spine indeed. The converse seems to be that without them we can be somewhat spineless in more ways than one.

Spot on, and three of those four are injured. The only reason Hughes changed a winning team was because of injuries.

[Original Dub]

I also very much agree with Doug's post above (although I won't requote this time) which makes a refeshing change from all the glass one third empty brigade.

The player I think we missed most yesterday was Toure.

When he captains the side we definitely don't see as much resorting to the long ball as the default option rather than a well considered alternative.

Great sides have great spines and with Given - Toure - Ireland - Adebayor we have got a very firm spine indeed. The converse seems to be that without them we can be somewhat spineless in more ways than one.

Spot on, and three of those four are injured. The only reason Hughes changed a winning team was because of injuries.

some on here would try and tell you that those 2 or 3 injuries don't make a difference and it can't be used for an excuse. Although, I think these people may not like Mark Hughes...

[Bluez]

I also very much agree with Doug's post above (although I won't requote this time) which makes a refeshing change from all the glass one third empty brigade.

The player I think we missed most yesterday was Toure.

When he captains the side we definitely don't see as much resorting to the long ball as the default option rather than a well considered alternative.

Great sides have great spines and with Given - Toure - Ireland - Adebayor we have got a very firm spine indeed. The converse seems to be that without them we can be somewhat spineless in more ways than one.

Spot on, and three of those four are injured. The only reason Hughes changed a winning team was because of injuries.

some on here would try and tell you that those 2 or 3 injuries don't make a difference and it can't be used for an excuse. Although, I think these people may not like Mark Hughes...

I think most sane people would think that losing Toure, Ireland, Robinho and Adebayor would affect most teams.

[Blueboylewis]

He needs to think about playing 4-3-3.

How about this,

Given

Bridge
Lescott
Kolo
Zabaleta

Barry
Ireland
De Jong

Tevez
Adebayor
Bellamy


We would have de jong and Barry supprting the 2 full backs, We would have Ireland making those runs through the middle looking for a ball through and obviously supprting the strikers! Tevez, ade and bellers between them should have more than enough to cause havoc!!

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Haha nice to see RIG back he really does raise a laugh when you most need it.

So I decided to post on this thread out of them all. As is well known I like to be positive whenever possible but at the same time I think I am fairly realistic about where we are and what's going on. Obviously on the positive side we are not losing games which we would have done last year when not playing well but I fear there are a few negatives which are getting a full airing on here.

The last 3 away game draws in isolation haven't been bad results really unless you have the belief that just because we have spent zillions we should smash almost any other team.If I remember correctly 3 managers in a row ( O'Neil , Martinez and now McLeish) have heaped praise onto their team saying how excellently that have played etc etc and yet we havent lost!!

What is concerning though is that we haven't posed enough of a threat in these games. OK we have a few chances and some other situations which just lack a final pass. We seem to be fairly ok on the wings but very little is happening down the middle. Ade hasn't been in good form after his lay off , RSC isn't fully ready yet and really needs somebody playing close with him and Tevez... well it isn't quite happening for him yet either. He does some good stuff but if he is to be considered a central strike partner he needs to be up there a lot more.

If the front 2 in a 4.4.2 system arent playing well there is a problem especially when the 2 midfield players don't really get alongside and past them much if at all. As I and many others have said before I don't think 4.4.2 suits our players but if we stick with it we need miles better performances from the front 2 plus I would say a different playmaking central midfielder , namely Stevie.

There has been all the talk about the team gelling but for me the gelling is more about the manager finding out about the players we have and the best way to use them. So far not so good on that front.

And also irrespective of the system we play I want to see braver team selections. Form and fitness should count for a lot. Players out of form should be replaced if the sub is in good form and the same should happen if the player isn't fully fit. Maybe he has to do more of that and we might see Weiss quite soon.

I think the fact that Ireland and Richards have been benched shows that Hughes thinks their form is not good enough. I would like to think that it is the responsibility of the players as much as the manager to understand their team-mates and how they like to play and what makes them tick on the field.

I agree Richards form is not good enough and that is totally the reason he is now benched but not so sure re Ireland. He was initially left out doe to ilnness/injury and I am not 100% sure he is fully over that yet.If he isn't then maybe a part game is all he can do but if he is fit he should imo be playing.He has the quality in midfield we simply don't have in any other player.

On the other point yes of course the players should know what is expected of them within a system or team and what makes teamates tick but somehow at the moment that understanding just isn't showing.They do work on it in training ,albeit fleetingly of late, due to international breaks and injuries and no doubt will do planty more as one thing I am totally sure of is that Hughes and co can see what we are seeing. They seem to differ on how to resolve it at the moment but we will see if/how things change.

[M147WN]

I don't think Hughes can see what we see!
That's not having a go ... A seat in the stand and it's a different game compared to watching at pitch level.
He should seriously sit in the stand on a regular basis!

[Grob]

Last years system worked quite well on the whole for me. We just didnt have enough good players in key positions.

Now we've bought those players we have started to use a different, more negative, and more confusing system.

Get back to what we were doing last season with Stevie in attack, Barry at quarterback, so to speak, maybe Zabs gettng around midfield breaking things up and moving the play on, Petrov/Robinho/Tevez/Bellemy/SWP in the wide striker roles and RSC or Ade down the middle.

Simples.

On a side note, I wish we had an Elano that could tackle/fully fit Johnson. That player would fit in with Barry and Stevie perfectly.

[FA cup winners 2006]

hughes seems to be limiting the amount of work required of some players. Barry for example was required to run villas midfield and help out all over the pitch. with us he seems to sit back alot (obviously under instruction) and it is effecting his game.

________________Given

Zabeleta-----toure------Lescott------Bridge

-----Ireland-------De Jong-------Barry

-----------Tevez----------Bellemy

------------------Ade

i would like to see hughes going with a 433, and leave the midfield work to Ireland - De Jong - Barry, with De Jong to sit a bit deeper and stevie and barry to control the tempo and do the box to box stuff. also i would like to see the wide men (Bellemy & Tevez) to have a free role behind Ade and concentrate on probing the defence.

A worry i would have with this formation is how exposed the full backs would be but if De Jong can sit that bit deeper he can help out at CB and push toure and lescott out to help the full backs. also with Bellemy, Tevez and Ade (Robbie) when fit sitting up front i dont think we will see many opposing full backs charging forward.

this formation also lends itself to be easily changed without drastically changing tactics. SWP and Petrov on for Tevez and Bellemy with Ireland to Play of Ade should see us be able to protect a lead and still be a threat on the counter.

the major thing i would like to see change is us to attack from the start and not let teams to get settled into games, build up our lead and then see a game out

[mcfc1632]

My ideal line up – would be:

-------------------------------Given

New RB---------------------------------------------------------------------Bridge

--------------Toure--------------------------------Lescott

-----De Jong--------------------------------------------------------Barry

----Tevez-------------------------------------------------------Bellamy

--------------------------------Robinho

--------------------------------Ade

The system will require the width to come from full backs – which is why a new one is required – world class that can be a genuine wing back – must be able to link up play – must be able to get past players and down the wing – must be a very good crosser of the ball (Petrov level) – and must be of a mindset to get back to defend (unlike Micah) and be a good tackler.

When the wingback move forward you can have the confidence that Toure / De Jong – Lescott / Barry are providing excellent cover – leaving Tevez and Bellers to get lots of room with the distraction Ade causes and Rob will just sit there for fun laying in perfectly weighted balls for Bellers and Tevez or popping it in himself if the opportunity is there.

I would then rotate in Stevie for De Jong during games when we are comfortable or need more creativity with the starting place going to whoever is playing best. I would use Petrov on a regular basis to replace Bellers directly or another player if the match position means we need to push Bellers up front.

Until we get the new RB, I would try SWP at RB and if Hughes is not brave enough for that, Zab.

After the new RB arrives, I would use Zab, SWP, Johnson, Kompany and others as genuine squad players and find them sub roles to keep them involved – I would put Micah in the reserves until he finds his form and brain.

[DoomMerchant]

I don't think Hughes can see what we see!
That's not having a go ... A seat in the stand and it's a different game compared to watching at pitch level.
He should seriously sit in the stand on a regular basis!

there are actually cameras all over the stadium which give Hughes an even better view of the team. When i went on the tour of COMS i was told that it was pretty common for Hughes to even have video of the first half which he would highlight and point out things during the halftime break of a match from what he and his coaches had seen. He's extremely into video reviews and technology apparently.

Galaga, Pac-Man, etc as well maybe.

cheers