Rag_hater wrote:The kind of football that is liked in england sliding into tackles flying around at a 100 miles an hour no time for skill is the reason why we will never win a major tournament.
People in UK seem happy thinking the prem is the best league in the world and the are watching the best quality there is where it is far from the truth.
The rest of the world plays the game in a way that is more skillful so the Uk will not compete with it because it plays the game in a different way that is not good enough to win against good teams.
However it appears that english fans think they have the best but it is nothng more than the strength the money.
Unless there s a change in mentaity on how the game should be played(the englsh fans like it being played by real men as somebody said) there is little hope.
Kladze wrote:Rag_hater wrote:The kind of football that is liked in england sliding into tackles flying around at a 100 miles an hour no time for skill is the reason why we will never win a major tournament.
People in UK seem happy thinking the prem is the best league in the world and the are watching the best quality there is where it is far from the truth.
The rest of the world plays the game in a way that is more skillful so the Uk will not compete with it because it plays the game in a different way that is not good enough to win against good teams.
However it appears that english fans think they have the best but it is nothng more than the strength the money.
Unless there s a change in mentaity on how the game should be played(the englsh fans like it being played by real men as somebody said) there is little hope.
Nice of you to elucidate us as to why English clubs are always so poor in European competitions :-)
Ted Hughes wrote:Kladze wrote:Rag_hater wrote:The kind of football that is liked in england sliding into tackles flying around at a 100 miles an hour no time for skill is the reason why we will never win a major tournament.
People in UK seem happy thinking the prem is the best league in the world and the are watching the best quality there is where it is far from the truth.
The rest of the world plays the game in a way that is more skillful so the Uk will not compete with it because it plays the game in a different way that is not good enough to win against good teams.
However it appears that english fans think they have the best but it is nothng more than the strength the money.
Unless there s a change in mentaity on how the game should be played(the englsh fans like it being played by real men as somebody said) there is little hope.
Nice of you to elucidate us as to why English clubs are always so poor in European competitions :-)
Perhaps one day we'll get the occasional crappy English team into the latter stages of the Champion's league or the Uefa Cup. We can only hope.
Ted Hughes wrote:Kladze wrote:Rag_hater wrote:The kind of football that is liked in england sliding into tackles flying around at a 100 miles an hour no time for skill is the reason why we will never win a major tournament.
People in UK seem happy thinking the prem is the best league in the world and the are watching the best quality there is where it is far from the truth.
The rest of the world plays the game in a way that is more skillful so the Uk will not compete with it because it plays the game in a different way that is not good enough to win against good teams.
However it appears that english fans think they have the best but it is nothng more than the strength the money.
Unless there s a change in mentaity on how the game should be played(the englsh fans like it being played by real men as somebody said) there is little hope.
Nice of you to elucidate us as to why English clubs are always so poor in European competitions :-)
Perhaps one day we'll get the occasional crappy English team into the latter stages of the Champion's league or the Uefa Cup. We can only hope.
johnpb78 wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:Kladze wrote:Rag_hater wrote:The kind of football that is liked in england sliding into tackles flying around at a 100 miles an hour no time for skill is the reason why we will never win a major tournament.
People in UK seem happy thinking the prem is the best league in the world and the are watching the best quality there is where it is far from the truth.
The rest of the world plays the game in a way that is more skillful so the Uk will not compete with it because it plays the game in a different way that is not good enough to win against good teams.
However it appears that english fans think they have the best but it is nothng more than the strength the money.
Unless there s a change in mentaity on how the game should be played(the englsh fans like it being played by real men as somebody said) there is little hope.
Nice of you to elucidate us as to why English clubs are always so poor in European competitions :-)
Perhaps one day we'll get the occasional crappy English team into the latter stages of the Champion's league or the Uefa Cup. We can only hope.
Clearly the clubs involved in the CL have 50% or more foreign players. RH's comments are perhaps relevant to the international side which is where I was heading with the post, as opposed to the academies of PL clubs, although admittedly the two are interlinked.
I think RH is right as you were about the way we coach our kids. I remember not long ago hearing that we were changing the rules for kids football as the pitches were too big until age 12, or some other bollocks.
If I think back to my formative days, the best players stuck out like a sore thumb. I was at Bury from 10-14, and some of the players there were fucking awesome, but of them all, only Phil Neville got a career out of it, when I swear at 12/13/14 there were many better players who given the right development would have progressed into players just as good if not better. Our training was shite, no concentration on skills, but lots on fitness and physicality. Multiply that around the country, where the best players at all the lower league clubs are just wasted by 13/14 and are told by their parents to concentrate solely on their exams so let the football slip.
Someone should be stepping in for these kids who are borderline but not uber talented (like Beckham was for example), having an academy/school of maybe 150 kids per year and even the ones signed upto top clubs have to attend the academy until they have completed their education (school leaving age is going upto 18 in a couple of years) to age 18 so the FA can ensure that the ENGLISH players get the coaching the national association wants, wheras the clubs import talent, and the best english players are pushed aside without getting the attention they deserve
Lev Bronstein wrote:Despite the fact that the Sky 4 have done OK in the CL, the layer below haven't pulled up many trees in the Europa/UEFA/whatever cup. Underlining what we all know - the massive gap between the top 4 and the rest (at least up to now).
Whatever happens after the WC, I can see the need to replace quite a few of the England squad in preparation for Euro 2012. I can't see Lampard, Ferdinand, Gerrard or James lasting the pace.
The temptation must be to wipe the slate clean and start the campaign in autumn with a squad that will be mostly under 25. Sure there'll be venom from the press, sure they'll be given little chance, sure they'll struggle, but in four years time there's a chance that England, with the right manager, will be a team.
Ted Hughes wrote:Lev Bronstein wrote:Despite the fact that the Sky 4 have done OK in the CL, the layer below haven't pulled up many trees in the Europa/UEFA/whatever cup. Underlining what we all know - the massive gap between the top 4 and the rest (at least up to now).
Whatever happens after the WC, I can see the need to replace quite a few of the England squad in preparation for Euro 2012. I can't see Lampard, Ferdinand, Gerrard or James lasting the pace.
The temptation must be to wipe the slate clean and start the campaign in autumn with a squad that will be mostly under 25. Sure there'll be venom from the press, sure they'll be given little chance, sure they'll struggle, but in four years time there's a chance that England, with the right manager, will be a team.
Fair point about creating a 'team'. That could make up for the lack of many brilliant individuals but unfortunately we have to qualify for the Euros & it's likely that Gerrard, Lampard & Co will be wheeled out on zimmer frames along with 97 year old Beckham, anyone Harry recommends & a plethora of talentless raglets the press get suckered into believing are world beaters.
Can't agree about our teams in the Uefa. Some of course have ducked out almost deliberately, not wanting to tire players, but teams like Fulham & Everton have competed in spite of having no resources to speak of.
Rag_hater wrote:The kind of football that is liked in england sliding into tackles flying around at a 100 miles an hour no time for skill is the reason why we will never win a major tournament.
People in UK seem happy thinking the prem is the best league in the world and the are watching the best quality there is where it is far from the truth.
The rest of the world plays the game in a way that is more skillful so the Uk will not compete with it because it plays the game in a different way that is not good enough to win against good teams.
However it appears that english fans think they have the best but it is nothng more than the strength the money.
Unless there s a change in mentaity on how the game should be played(the englsh fans like it being played by real men as somebody said) there is little hope.
Lev Bronstein wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:Lev Bronstein wrote:Despite the fact that the Sky 4 have done OK in the CL, the layer below haven't pulled up many trees in the Europa/UEFA/whatever cup. Underlining what we all know - the massive gap between the top 4 and the rest (at least up to now).
Whatever happens after the WC, I can see the need to replace quite a few of the England squad in preparation for Euro 2012. I can't see Lampard, Ferdinand, Gerrard or James lasting the pace.
The temptation must be to wipe the slate clean and start the campaign in autumn with a squad that will be mostly under 25. Sure there'll be venom from the press, sure they'll be given little chance, sure they'll struggle, but in four years time there's a chance that England, with the right manager, will be a team.
Fair point about creating a 'team'. That could make up for the lack of many brilliant individuals but unfortunately we have to qualify for the Euros & it's likely that Gerrard, Lampard & Co will be wheeled out on zimmer frames along with 97 year old Beckham, anyone Harry recommends & a plethora of talentless raglets the press get suckered into believing are world beaters.
Can't agree about our teams in the Uefa. Some of course have ducked out almost deliberately, not wanting to tire players, but teams like Fulham & Everton have competed in spite of having no resources to speak of.
I sort of see your point, re uefa but I'm sort of sticking to mine. Put it another way, if the PL was so good we'd see more efforts like Fulham's - which suggests a gap between the second layer of the PL and the second layer of other leagues. (Mind you we could get into a discussion about the lack of genuine competition in the PL -up to now anyway. And we've had that one a million times)
One of the problems at the moment is that England have one or two class players. They are built up to be world beaters, "Rooney . can win us the World Cup" sort of thing. To my mind this has two effects. First, too much pressure is placed on too few shoulders. Second, Rooney, for example, starts thinking the entire team, structure and tactics revolve around their over-inflated talents. Either way, the strength of the team, the group is diminished.
You, like myself, has spent many a year watching football. We've seen a team of eleven talented individuals play like eleven individuals and get beat by a team that plays like a team. I think that the national squad have forgotten that.
Dazzacity wrote:Rag_hater wrote:The kind of football that is liked in england sliding into tackles flying around at a 100 miles an hour no time for skill is the reason why we will never win a major tournament.
People in UK seem happy thinking the prem is the best league in the world and the are watching the best quality there is where it is far from the truth.
The rest of the world plays the game in a way that is more skillful so the Uk will not compete with it because it plays the game in a different way that is not good enough to win against good teams.
However it appears that english fans think they have the best but it is nothng more than the strength the money.
Unless there s a change in mentaity on how the game should be played(the englsh fans like it being played by real men as somebody said) there is little hope.
Was it your aim to type complete shite??
Bianchi on Ice wrote:I wouldnt say we were on a different planet to Croatia Ted. Who would you rather play needing to win tomorrow? Croatia or Slovenia?. In Zagreb, England scored first, game turned on its head, Croatia ripe for the counter. Its 50/50 that game. Little details. So far, its been the huge details like passing, movement and intelligence that have let England down, with a bit of nerves thrown in.
I said in another post the system should have been radically overhauled during the eighties but the odd exceptional result delayed it all. Its sad we are still talking about whats wrong now, when you could rewind 30 years and many were saying the same things.
If England go out tomorrow its below par, but not the biggest shock. Italy drawing with the Kiwis is.
Bianchi on Ice wrote:I understand your point Ted, but maybe by beating Croatia 9-2 over 2 legs it distorted things. Just like if England come out of the blocks early against Slovenia, win 3-0 and gain some much needed confidence. That would distort things too, especially in the minds of the press, who are creating these molehills then standing back pontificating about it. England would then be under just as much pressure to perform in the second round, which, even if they went out then, to a much more accomplished side, would still arguably be the most abject campaign since before I was born(If you don't include not actually qualifying for the finals, which has happened far too often). I totally agree with the point that other than this "Golden generation"(I thought the price of Gold was sky high?) the players to come in don't, on the face of it, seem to be anything other than functional fit-ins in the premier league.
Is this the result of a faulty amateur, schools and youth system? Yes.
Will the FA do anything about it? maybe. I think they are making tortoise-like steps to change it but how long does this take? 20 years? minimum. You are also looking at a change in attitudes, top to bottom.
England CAN suddenly spring to life, win a couple of games and get into the nitty-gritty. But as far as I can see the ball is not round when we play its a hot potato and it will not carry them further than last eight on a regular basis. With almost 60 million inhabitants AND a high profile league structure (there are larger countries than England without one so thats their excuse) there is an underlying problem. I could say I was a victim of the system but I wasn't because I was shit!
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