IS Bobby Mancini THE MAN?

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Here are some straightforward facts: U***d are among the top 4 teams in the world. Mancini's tactics against them were not inept they were correct - we were just unlucky.

You make your own luck. We can't continually just keep missing out to last minute goals. That's 3 times this season. They fight until the end and we need to do the same.

I don't personally think we looked like scoring in open play. That was that goalmouth scramble and a penalty shout. Nothing else. Would've been happy with 0-0.

I remain concerned that we , whoever we is, would have been happy with a nil nil draw. U***d are in the top teams in the world but they are not in good form.If we go for victory and draw then fine but it did seem that we didnt set our stall out for a win. Many of the pundits and almost all football fans I have spoken too after the match were confused by City's lack of ambition.

Were our tactics correct? What exactly were they?Were we unlucky?

I certainly thought the team selection was right. It looked an attacking set up but attacking isn't just about giving it to 4 attacking players and saying go on then. For me it's about pressing the opposition as high as possible , pushing them back and supporting the attcking quality that we have. I didn't see us pressing much or certainly not as a team. NDJ had a very good game but the rest seemed off the pace. Seeing that pass to Scholes early on when he was given so much time and space to approach the box and shoot was quite alarming but symptomatic of our lack of energy and positivity on the day.

I don't think we were unlucky

Once again I saw the game very differently to you. I thought we were easily the better team in second half and I don't think Rags had proper shot at goal until they scored. The way were playing I felt convinced we'd score at some stage or at very at least take a point. That's why their winner was such suckerpunch. I spent good hour or so sitting on my chair mouth open before it sink in.

This was very different to previous Derby losses this season. I didn't think we deserved to lose that game at all and felt we were playing quite well considering the opposition and how important it was for both sides. That was one of the most gutting Derby losses ever and there have been fair few to choose from.

As I am sure you have said so often it doesn't matter how well you play or how badly it's the result that counts. I havent found anyone else yet that thought " The way were playing I felt convinced we'd score at some stage " Just a matter of opinion I know but I just don't see it. I simply don't think we played well, okish but not well. I did think we would take a point obviously as the game wore on but as I said I don't think we were unlucky , we sort of invited what happened and guess what it happened.

I do agree though it was more gutting then almost all other losses. We need to go for Arsenal from the start as we can beat them but approach it with full caution and I don't think we will win.

Of course it's result that counts. THAT is why it was so gutting as we were playing well.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Gutting yes, playing well is your opinion.It was going the way of the Liverpool home game with just a few more chances in this one but with the majority being for the scum.

[Original Dub]

I don't feel like we played well at all. From I was sitting it looked like we were on the pitch to make sure we didn't lose. I can't remember how many shots we had on target, but it felt like it was only Tevez' free kick...

I felt the most we were going to get out of the game was a point, so I didn't find it as gutting that we dropped that point in the last minute. Don't get me wrong, it was horrible, but I feel we dropped points because of how cagey we played.

I was hoping Mancini would shake this monkey off, because under him in the league, we've only beaten Chelsea out of ALL the top 8 teams and that to me says so far he's finding it difficult to beat the better sides in the league, which is worrying with our run in.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

I don't feel like we played well at all. From I was sitting it looked like we were on the pitch to make sure we didn't lose. I can't remember how many shots we had on target, but it felt like it was only Tevez' free kick...
I felt the most we were going to get out of the game was a point, so I didn't find it as gutting that we dropped that point in the last minute. Don't get me wrong, it was horrible, but I feel we dropped points because of how cagey we played.

I was hoping Mancini would shake this monkey off, because under him in the league, we've only beaten Chelsea out of ALL the top 8 teams and that to me says so far he's finding it difficult to beat the better sides in the league, which is worrying with our run in.

Five or six I believe. Rags had only one in second half. Shame it was goal.

Regarding the last column, we desperately lack WINNERS. People who raise their hand up when pushes come to shovels and LEAD the time to win. They had that ginger twat scoring for them and there's a prototype of a winner. Not really particularily good at anything but simply has that winning aura about him. We got good players gathered from teams that have won fuck all and therefore they lack the winning mentality.

THAT is why I said it will take at least another 200m to turn this group of players into group of players who are genuine winners.

[Ted Hughes]

Here are some straightforward facts: U***d are among the top 4 teams in the world. Mancini's tactics against them were not inept they were correct - we were just unlucky.

You make your own luck. We can't continually just keep missing out to last minute goals. That's 3 times this season. They fight until the end and we need to do the same.

I don't personally think we looked like scoring in open play. That was that goalmouth scramble and a penalty shout. Nothing else. Would've been happy with 0-0.

I remain concerned that we , whoever we is, would have been happy with a nil nil draw. U***d are in the top teams in the world but they are not in good form.If we go for victory and draw then fine but it did seem that we didnt set our stall out for a win. Many of the pundits and almost all football fans I have spoken too after the match were confused by City's lack of ambition.

Were our tactics correct? What exactly were they?Were we unlucky?

I certainly thought the team selection was right. It looked an attacking set up but attacking isn't just about giving it to 4 attacking players and saying go on then. For me it's about pressing the opposition as high as possible , pushing them back and supporting the attcking quality that we have. I didn't see us pressing much or certainly not as a team. NDJ had a very good game but the rest seemed off the pace. Seeing that pass to Scholes early on when he was given so much time and space to approach the box and shoot was quite alarming but symptomatic of our lack of energy and positivity on the day.

I don't think we were unlucky

Once again I saw the game very differently to you. I thought we were easily the better team in second half and I don't think Rags had proper shot at goal until they scored. The way were playing I felt convinced we'd score at some stage or at very at least take a point. That's why their winner was such suckerpunch. I spent good hour or so sitting on my chair mouth open before it sink in.

This was very different to previous Derby losses this season. I didn't think we deserved to lose that game at all and felt we were playing quite well considering the opposition and how important it was for both sides. That was one of the most gutting Derby losses ever and there have been fair few to choose from.

I've been waiting for 30 odd years to actually see City field an 11that's better than Utd's. We did on Saturday but we were nowhere near as good as the teams Keegan & Pearce put out. I could take the defeat but the manner of it I found unacceptable.

I don't think we were unlucky at all. Both Rooney & Giggs missed from positions they normally score from 90% of the time 1st half & Scholes/Fletcher had 2 unnopposed shots from the edge of the box 1st half. Berbatov missed a simple header before the threatened goal came.

From the kick off, it was obvious from the team selection that Scholes would see plenty of the ball but IF we were attacking them then that's fair enough, a worthy gamble which may have paid off. We were sat back though so it was a huge mistake. Not good, not clever.

If he was going to change the team to combat Scholes, it should have been done about 5- 10 minutes into the game. To then bring on an ageing Vieira at the death, when players were knackered, rather than either SWP to attack them or Zabeleta to combat them & close down the game when Ferguson was bringing on speedy wide players was something I find unacceptable at this level. We were there for the taking once that happened. I was trying to discuss it logically with everyone around me, give a reason for it rather than scratch my head like everyone else but in reality I was dumbfounded. We almost got out of jail with a corner kick but alas no. It was nonsense & the whole world of football knows it & are saying so in print & broadcasting. Then bringing on Ireland was baffling to say the least. It failed spectacularly, obviously & depressingly.

They had a glaring weakness in Neville, yet we barely even tried to exploit it. I don't remember once seeing Johnson employed to run at him. Only when he took a corner on that side did they meet. I find that to be incompetent/ uninspired management & I doubt if any run of the mill PL manager would have missed that opportunity given our squad. We similarly failed to play on Wes Brown in the cup game even though his confidence was shot to pieces at the time. That was early in Mancini's time so that's an excuse, this wasn't. No excuse..

The defence was a shambles as bad as anything they've produced all season & relying on luck & effort to see them through but most of it was down to individual mistakes of the kind Hughes suffered from, so I don't blame Mancini for that. For the goal though they should have been pushing out much earlier but weren't so the training ground stuff has still not worked when the chips are down. It may in time if they keep at it.

So far I've seen no evidence that Mancini has ANY ability as a tactician or a motivator. He may be teaching good habits on the training ground, as was Hughes but imo, almost all City's good performances under him have come when he's sent out the team to attack as a 4-4-2. Evey time he's taken on a manager with formations & tactics we've either struggled or lost & he's usually had to change it. I hope he sorts it out & succeeds as he's a likeable bloke & I hate changing managers but his performances against most of the better teams & some of the poorer ones give me grave doubts unfotunately.

I recon someone like David Moyes would have had the team fighting like tigers, storming forward & won us that game comfortably.

[Original Dub]

The fact we've only beaten one in the top 8 of the league is worrying me, but I think he'll get it right. He has to stop with the cagey shit and make teams have to adjust to try to handle us, not the other way around.

[Original Dub]

I don't feel like we played well at all. From I was sitting it looked like we were on the pitch to make sure we didn't lose. I can't remember how many shots we had on target, but it felt like it was only Tevez' free kick...
I felt the most we were going to get out of the game was a point, so I didn't find it as gutting that we dropped that point in the last minute. Don't get me wrong, it was horrible, but I feel we dropped points because of how cagey we played.

I was hoping Mancini would shake this monkey off, because under him in the league, we've only beaten Chelsea out of ALL the top 8 teams and that to me says so far he's finding it difficult to beat the better sides in the league, which is worrying with our run in.

Five or six I believe. Rags had only one in second half. Shame it was goal.

Regarding the last column, we desperately lack WINNERS. People who raise their hand up when pushes come to shovels and LEAD the time to win. They had that ginger twat scoring for them and there's a prototype of a winner. Not really particularily good at anything but simply has that winning aura about him. We got good players gathered from teams that have won fuck all and therefore they lack the winning mentality.

THAT is why I said it will take at least another 200m to turn this group of players into group of players who are genuine winners.

Six shots on target?! Fuck, I definitely had too much to drink in the Townley beforehand!

I honestly thought it was a LOT less than that. Anyway, I spent most of the match feeling very uninspired. Not at all how I thought my first derby would be. I NEVER felt like we were going to win.

[Ted Hughes]

The fact we've only beaten one in the top 8 of the league is worrying me, but I think he'll get it right. He has to stop with the cagey shit and make teams have to adjust to try to handle us, not the other way around.

I hope you're right mate. I want him to do it but he got it so badly wrong on Sat & the trouble is; ALL the media have spotted it. We really need a win at Arsenal or they'll stick the knife right in.

[Original Dub]

The fact we've only beaten one in the top 8 of the league is worrying me, but I think he'll get it right. He has to stop with the cagey shit and make teams have to adjust to try to handle us, not the other way around.

I hope you're right mate. I want him to do it but he got it so badly wrong on Sat & the trouble is; ALL the media have spotted it. We really need a win at Arsenal or they'll stick the knife right in.

We definitely need a win at Arsenal. That would really change the landscape and set us up nicely for the run in. Plus, there is no better time to play them, with their confidence shot and them effectively having nothing to play for.

Fingers crossed we'll just go for it on Saturday. I think we have to and I think Mancini knows this now.

[MaineRoadMemories]

The fact we've only beaten one in the top 8 of the league is worrying me, but I think he'll get it right. He has to stop with the cagey shit and make teams have to adjust to try to handle us, not the other way around.

Doubt it, he got knocked out of the champions league by AC Milan, Liverpool and Valencia in all the knock-out games by giving the opposition too much respect.

He's a great manager and will do well at City, most probably guide us into the Champions League at some point and have a good chance of winning either the FA or League Cup. But is he the man to win the league or the big one? No, unfortunately.

[Mike J]

in absolutely no way did we play well. infact i thought we were bloody awful apart from de jong. shocking passing, no big tackles. we looked scared.

you CANNOT set out to play for a draw against that lot and i think thats what we did.

if we dont get at least a point at arsenal i really think we have fucked it. if we go for it and attack them then i think we will beat them as they are even worse than us at the back. however im worried that he will set out for a draw and nasri, rvp and rosicky will run riot.

[Ted Hughes]

The fact we've only beaten one in the top 8 of the league is worrying me, but I think he'll get it right. He has to stop with the cagey shit and make teams have to adjust to try to handle us, not the other way around.

I hope you're right mate. I want him to do it but he got it so badly wrong on Sat & the trouble is; ALL the media have spotted it. We really need a win at Arsenal or they'll stick the knife right in.

We definitely need a win at Arsenal. That would really change the landscape and set us up nicely for the run in. Plus, there is no better time to play them, with their confidence shot and them effectively having nothing to play for.

Fingers crossed we'll just go for it on Saturday. I think we have to and I think Mancini knows this now.

Well it's not neccessarily over if we lose there so we may as well just steam into them. Obviously we can't be stupid about it but as you say, their weakness is at the back so lets hit them there, even if it's on the break. You can still be positive counter attacking as long as you're not scared & more worried about the oppo, like we were Sat.

[mcfc1632]

- but the tactics yesterday were inept - we made Scholes look like the player he was 15 years ago - in fact better than he has ever actually been. We needed to stop all this 'showing them too much respect' crap and giving them so much space in MF - the scum are not a great team nowadays at all and fall apart when you get at them from the off -

The pair of you should prepare to eat these words in a couple of weeks.

There is no scenario in which those words could require eating!!

I have been behind Bobby - I still am - lets all hope he learns from yesterday - lets hope that we win the next 4 and get 4th - but that will not change what is a fact - that yesterday's tactics were big time wrong - and unfortunately repeated the mistake he made in the semi - and I would have hoped he would learn from mistakes

Does not mean that I am 'against' him though - you should be able to point out straight forward facts

Here are some straightforward facts: U***d are among the top 4 teams in the world. Mancini's tactics against them were not inept they were correct - we were just unlucky.

I do not agree with your first fact at all - and the goal could have come much earlier - loads of the fans around me could seen the poor tactics from about 5 mins in - what was poor ( I will row away from inept) was to set us out so badly against a MF 5 and then when it was obvious that it was failing badly not change earlier - much earlier

Why does everything on this site have to be black or white - I am not against Mancini - I support him - just pointing out that in this game he got his tactics badly wrong - not point in deluding ourselves on that - lets hope we do not abdicate MF against Arsenal

[btajim]

The fact we've only beaten one in the top 8 of the league is worrying me, but I think he'll get it right. He has to stop with the cagey shit and make teams have to adjust to try to handle us, not the other way around.

Doubt it, he got knocked out of the champions league by AC Milan, Liverpool and Valencia in all the knock-out games by giving the opposition too much respect.

He's a great manager and will do well at City, most probably guide us into the Champions League at some point and have a good chance of winning either the FA or League Cup. But is he the man to win the league or the big one? No, unfortunately.

Definitely. I don't recall Inter Milan being there or thereabouts in the Champions League when he was in charge. He might improve in Europe as he progresses as a Manager - but why take that risk if there's someone else available?

This poll on this thread is specifically asking whether he'll take us to the Premiership Title. I'm struggling to find anything to convince me that he will. Top 4, Carling Cup etc - I expect so.

[Socrates]

Never read so much shite in my life as in the last few posts!

The tactics were wrong just like the semi final? - you mean the home semi final that we won?
If the tactics were so terrible how come we were one good Bellamy pass away shutting them out for what would have been a reasonable 0-0 draw? Why hadn't they hammered us already?
Can you really define a young manager on 3 defeats in the Champions League? Lots of successful managers have lost 3 years in a row in that competition!
He cannot get results against top sides as he shows them too much respect. Erm, Chelsea didn't happen then? Ok.
He isn't up to winning titles? Ok Serie A doesn't count then. Funny how it was a walkover when all he had to beat was Roma. Look at the table now and see how Mourinho is doing against Roma?

Utter kneejerk hysterical nonsense wrapped up in false logic based on a small results samples by people who think Mourinho is some sort of sky fairy who would magic us to titles. Mourinho of course, would have attacked, attacked, attacked on Saturday. just like he always does?

[Cocacolajojo1]

The fact we've only beaten one in the top 8 of the league is worrying me, but I think he'll get it right. He has to stop with the cagey shit and make teams have to adjust to try to handle us, not the other way around.

Doubt it, he got knocked out of the champions league by AC Milan, Liverpool and Valencia in all the knock-out games by giving the opposition too much respect.

He's a great manager and will do well at City, most probably guide us into the Champions League at some point and have a good chance of winning either the FA or League Cup. But is he the man to win the league or the big one? No, unfortunately.

In which League does AC Milan play?

[mcfc1632]

Never read so much shite in my life as in the last few posts!

The tactics were wrong just like the semi final? - you mean the home semi final that we won?
If the tactics were so terrible how come we were one good Bellamy pass away shutting them out for what would have been a reasonable 0-0 draw? Why hadn't they hammered us already?
Can you really define a young manager on 3 defeats in the Champions League? Lots of successful managers have lost 3 years in a row in that competition!
He cannot get results against top sides as he shows them too much respect. Erm, Chelsea didn't happen then? Ok.
He isn't up to winning titles? Ok Serie A doesn't count then. Funny how it was a walkover when all he had to beat was Roma. Look at the table now and see how Mourinho is doing against Roma?

Utter kneejerk hysterical nonsense wrapped up in false logic based on a small results samples by people who think Mourinho is some sort of sky fairy who would magic us to titles. Mourinho of course, would have attacked, attacked, attacked on Saturday. just like he always does?

Socs - you have lost the plot mate - you see any criticism as people being 'against' Mancini - which I most certainly am not - stop whistling in the wind - stop defending Mancini - because people are not attacking him FFS - I was there - and I can tell you we looked much better on the TV recording I saw later - truth is he was absolutely 'mugged. by the that purple nose twat - just forget all the - 'last minute bollocks' - we were the opposite of spuds against Chelsea - totally timid - poor poor tactics

...no shouting can change those facts - and if you really believe differently - well you need glasses - lets move on and hope that he learns for Saturday - because we cannot expect to play defensive against Arse, Villa and Spuds and get lucky on the break 3 times

Ps and forget all that Mourinho comparison - I am a big fan of Mancini for 2 reasons - 1/ He is the CITY manager - 2/ Him succeeding keeps that egotist away from my club - but I can be pro-Mancini and still see faults

[Im_Spartacus]

Never read so much shite in my life as in the last few posts!

The tactics were wrong just like the semi final? - you mean the home semi final that we won?

The semi-final tactics were wrong for the exact same reason the tactics were wrong on Saturday. Had we set about United in either game, we would have beaten them comfortably both times, and would have had a league cup final day out as the 2nd leg would have been irrelevant.

If you want to use the Chelsea game as an example, fair enough, play on the counter away from home - BUT YOU DO NOT DO THAT AT HOME. A draw was NOT an acceptable result on Saturday, regardless who the opposition were. We should have been going for it in our 3 remaining cup finals at home, and any points away from home would have been a bonus - the arsenal game is the time to pull out the cagey shit and try to sneak a draw, not against a side struggling for confidence, with the fervent backing of 45,000.

[john68]

My big worry about all this supposes playing cagey stuff is that it hands control of the game to the opposition. Though it contains the statement..."Do whatever you wish...and we will deal with it", it allows opposition to dictate the pace and even the sets the location on the pitch that the main action takes place. Usually in our half.
It does not contain the statement "This is what we do, can you deal with us?"

It is always easier to attack than defend. By attacking and being proactive, you choose the manner, speed and point of attack, you dictate the flow of the game and just because you are attacking, it doesn't mean that you have to weaken your defence.
We have the creative players and the energy within the City team to be successful going forward, rather than hiiting teams on the break.

I will add that it is still early days yet in the evolution of our team. Instant success was never a reality We demanded that from hughes and I see those same demands now of Mancini. We have to remain patient and allow our team to grow and learn and to allow our weaknesses to be strengthened. It will take time...and we do have time.

[Niall Quinns Discopants]

Never read so much shite in my life as in the last few posts!

The tactics were wrong just like the semi final? - you mean the home semi final that we won?

The semi-final tactics were wrong for the exact same reason the tactics were wrong on Saturday. Had we set about U***d in either game, we would have beaten them comfortably both times, and would have had a league cup final day out as the 2nd leg would have been irrelevant.

If you want to use the Chelsea game as an example, fair enough, play on the counter away from home - BUT YOU DO NOT DO THAT AT HOME. A draw was NOT an acceptable result on Saturday, regardless who the opposition were. We should have been going for it in our 3 remaining cup finals at home, and any points away from home would have been a bonus - the arsenal game is the time to pull out the cagey shit and try to sneak a draw, not against a side struggling for confidence, with the fervent backing of 45,000.

OR there's the slight chance that Rags are simply better team than us and we have maybe 20% chance of winning any given game against them anyway.