IS Bobby Mancini THE MAN?

[BobKowalski]

The owners have shown their impatience already and I do hope they don't do it again.Whoever we were to get and I mean whoever including Jose is not a guarantee of immediate success. They have to back the decision they have taken and allow it/him to deliver.

Actually I disagree with this. Usually when new owners take over a business middle and senior management is culled yet they showed restraint and good sense by keeping Hughes and his team in place for the remainder of the season and that was despite some shocking results along the way.

They also didn't sack him in the summer despite us finishing 10th and not even qualifying for Europe and then backed him to the tune of £200m. This 'impatient' arguement stems from the fact that people thought or felt Hughes was making progress however the people who had shelled out the £200m clearly did not and decided a change was necessary.

You can criticise the decision to sack Hughes but to level the charge of 'impatience' is I think wrong. Hughes was judged over 18 months and ultimately was found wanting by the owners.

We can all agree however that ADUG have to identify the right man for the job and stick with him. Given the way they stuck with Hughes makes me think they will do exactly that. The current speculation arises because people think that ADUG do not yet have their preferred man in charge. Personally I think that is also incorrect and that Mancini will be here for the long term even if we don't finish 4th.

[carl_feedthegoat]

The owners have shown their impatience already and I do hope they don't do it again.Whoever we were to get and I mean whoever including Jose is not a guarantee of immediate success. They have to back the decision they have taken and allow it/him to deliver.

Actually I disagree with this. Usually when new owners take over a business middle and senior management is culled yet they showed restraint and good sense by keeping Hughes and his team in place for the remainder of the season and that was despite some shocking results along the way.

They also didn't sack him in the summer despite us finishing 10th and not even qualifying for Europe and then backed him to the tune of £200m. This 'impatient' arguement stems from the fact that people thought or felt Hughes was making progress however the people who had shelled out the £200m clearly did not and decided a change was necessary.

You can criticise the decision to sack Hughes but to level the charge of 'impatience' is I think wrong. Hughes was judged over 18 months and ultimately was found wanting by the owners.

We can all agree however that ADUG have to identify the right man for the job and stick with him. Given the way they stuck with Hughes makes me think they will do exactly that. The current speculation arises because people think that ADUG do not yet have their preferred man in charge. Personally I think that is also incorrect and that Mancini will be here for the long term even if we don't finish 4th.

Spot on.

It really makes me chuckle when I hear this, especially in our case - I believe they have shown enormous patience considering they invested 100,s of million into the club without bringing in their own man in the first place (Noone would have begrudged them that).

When a takeover happens by any large corporation then it is the norm to assess most of your management, when you take over, and have a plan B to bring in your own.
The top man in a previous corporation is normally taken out by the new owners as they would have already earmarked one "of their own"..thats normally the first decision that is made............Hughes was given half a season to show the new owners there was no need to bring in their own guy.It is their perogative to decide if his results (and management style) were what they wanted for their company.

And IMO Jose would bring us immediate success , the guy,s a cunt but a fucking very good cunt as he has shown time and time again.

[brite blu sky]

The owners have shown their impatience already and I do hope they don't do it again.Whoever we were to get and I mean whoever including Jose is not a guarantee of immediate success. They have to back the decision they have taken and allow it/him to deliver.

Actually I disagree with this. Usually when new owners take over a business middle and senior management is culled yet they showed restraint and good sense by keeping Hughes and his team in place for the remainder of the season and that was despite some shocking results along the way.

They also didn't sack him in the summer despite us finishing 10th and not even qualifying for Europe and then backed him to the tune of £200m. This 'impatient' arguement stems from the fact that people thought or felt Hughes was making progress however the people who had shelled out the £200m clearly did not and decided a change was necessary.

You can criticise the decision to sack Hughes but to level the charge of 'impatience' is I think wrong. Hughes was judged over 18 months and ultimately was found wanting by the owners.

We can all agree however that ADUG have to identify the right man for the job and stick with him. Given the way they stuck with Hughes makes me think they will do exactly that. The current speculation arises because people think that ADUG do not yet have their preferred man in charge. Personally I think that is also incorrect and that Mancini will be here for the long term even if we don't finish 4th.

I would also agree with this.

however New management dont always cull everyone, if they are sensible they take stock and then do the adjusting.
They have now brought in their choice of manager, which as you say is their right to do. The timing could be questioned, but maybe they felt Mancini would go somewhere else if they waited until summer, maybe he told them he would!
Now they have their man, i think the evidence is they will back their own decision within certain parameters, and give Bob the time to at least implement what he has said he can achieve with the team. The parameters may well be what they have said about no new wholesale spending.

this would seem pretty sensible to me, and even if we didnt achieve a CL spot, but came very close, they would quite possibly have a good chat with Bobby, maybe take soundings off potential replacements ( including Jose ) and make a balanced judgement on basis of what the managers say about the team, its requirements and weak points and also an understanding of the context ( the Prem ).

Im getting the sense that they will stick with Mancini, i think the six months contract thing is there so they can make exactly this kind of assessment at the end of the season without any obligations.. ( smart thinking to me ).

You can imagine it like Bobby has to re-apply for his post and will be in competition with whoever else is up for having a go with City.

However if Bobby does well then he will be in prime position anyway, due to the simple fact that he has 6 months experience with the team and has done well.

To all intents and purposes we brought in a caretaker manager, that what a 6 month contract in football is.
The question is, Is Bobby Manc the one they wanted and just acted when they did cos hey had to?

the answer might lie in what you imagine that contract to have looked like..

1. if you achieve a trophy or a CL spot, you stay. but we will review the managers post anyway
2. otherwise we will review with the attitude the managers post is up for grabs ( as per normal ). we would expect you to be a prime candidate in this.

[BobKowalski]

Im getting the sense that they will stick with Mancini, i think the six months contract thing is there so they can make exactly this kind of assessment at the end of the season without any obligations.. ( smart thinking to me ).

You can imagine it like Bobby has to re-apply for his post and will be in competition with whoever else is up for having a go with City.

However if Bobby does well then he will be in prime position anyway, due to the simple fact that he has 6 months experience with the team and has done well.

To all intents and purposes we brought in a caretaker manager, that what a 6 month contract in football is.
The question is, Is Bobby Manc the one they wanted and just acted when they did cos hey had to?

the answer might lie in what you imagine that contract to have looked like..

1. if you achieve a trophy or a CL spot, you stay. but we will review the managers post anyway
2. otherwise we will review with the attitude the managers post is up for grabs ( as per normal ). we would expect you to be a prime candidate in this.

I get the sense that Mancini is staying as well. I also get the sense that a CL spot this season is not the deal breaker it may have been when Mancini took the job. As you say it made sense to build some form of summer review into the Mancini deal given he is new to the PL and English football as a whole. I now get the impression that the board is comfortable that Mancini can do the job and he has in effect got the green light for next season.

No evidence for this just a feeling.

[Beefymcfc]

Just for the books, I've changed my vote to 'Yes'. May as well give him my full backing now ;-)

[john@staustell]

It is clear that 'work in progress' is definitely the phrase. You can see that Bobby knows what he wants, trains hard at it, and yet the players haven't got there yet, some of them probably never will and need replacing. So getting rid this summer and starting again would be madness. Sometimes it's said in his detriment that the first Inter title was 'given to him' by the corruption problems. But then again you could say that, given time, he proved he could bring Inter deservedly to the top and stay there. Cant be done in 4 months though.

[Alex Sapphire]

His most recent assessment of Sunday's opponents, Fulham:

“Juve are, by far, stronger than Fulham and can’t lose,” the tactician told Tuttosport newspaper.
“They will progress. They will have to beware of the atmosphere, but [Alberto] Zaccheroni knows how to prepare the team for this clash."

Let's hope Bobby knows how to prepare HIS team, cos it looks like his judgement is a little off

[john@staustell]

His most recent assessment of Sunday's opponents, Fulham:

“Juve are, by far, stronger than Fulham and can’t lose,” the tactician told Tuttosport newspaper.
“They will progress. They will have to beware of the atmosphere, but [Alberto] Zaccheroni knows how to prepare the team for this clash."

Let's hope Bobby knows how to prepare HIS team, cos it looks like his judgement is a little off

I actually dont believe a word he says to reporters now. This is a man who said Wayne Bridge wasn't injured (when he clearly was) a few hours before he had a hernia operation - and that the Sunderland pitch was fine. Think he's on a big wind-up mission with the press myself.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I have dipped into this thread for a read from time to time and watched the % figure to say Mancini is the man hover around and just below the 50% mark. So it's pretty well a total split amongst the fans as to those who say yes and those who are unsure or worse.

I was just wondering , as I don't really think I have seen the answers in this thread , what the yes voters would point to as the reasons why they have voted yes. What has he actually done since he has been here at City to suggest or prove that he is the man? Or is the yes vote mostly about the " fact" that he has done it before in Italy? Or is some of the yes vote just a reaction to your belief that the last manager wasn't the man and this one just has to be?

I am one of the unsure ones from the beginning and have seen nothing to change that opinion. I am though desperate that he does succeed and even if we don't make the CL this time do not think he should be replaced as I feel that would be a disruption we wouldn't want and would again show the owners in a very bad light.

[Im_Spartacus]

I have dipped into this thread for a read from time to time and watched the % figure to say Mancini is the man hover around and just below the 50% mark. So it's pretty well a total split amongst the fans as to those who say yes and those who are unsure or worse.

I was just wondering , as I don't really think I have seen the answers in this thread , what the yes voters would point to as the reasons why they have voted yes. What has he actually done since he has been here at City to suggest or prove that he is the man? Or is the yes vote mostly about the " fact" that he has done it before in Italy? Or is some of the yes vote just a reaction to your belief that the last manager wasn't the man and this one just has to be?

I am one of the unsure ones from the beginning and have seen nothing to change that opinion. I am though desperate that he does succeed and even if we don't make the CL this time do not think he should be replaced as I feel that would be a disruption we wouldn't want and would again show the owners in a very bad light.

One of the most frustrating aspects of being a football fan of any club, is that a large proportion of fans think they are taking the moral high ground will blindly support any manager that occupies the chair at present, regardless of the situation. That is the only possible explanation I can think of as to why people at this stage feel he is the right man for the job.

Fair enough, some like Beefy have explained their reasons recently which is great, but from some of the comments in the early days of this thread, this "i'll support the current manager regardless" syndrome is still as true now as it was under the last manager, and the one before etc etc. Some people were saying yes at the start of this thread who most likely didnt have a fucking clue who he was other than what they had heard on here.

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I have dipped into this thread for a read from time to time and watched the % figure to say Mancini is the man hover around and just below the 50% mark. So it's pretty well a total split amongst the fans as to those who say yes and those who are unsure or worse.

I was just wondering , as I don't really think I have seen the answers in this thread , what the yes voters would point to as the reasons why they have voted yes. What has he actually done since he has been here at City to suggest or prove that he is the man? Or is the yes vote mostly about the " fact" that he has done it before in Italy? Or is some of the yes vote just a reaction to your belief that the last manager wasn't the man and this one just has to be?

I am one of the unsure ones from the beginning and have seen nothing to change that opinion. I am though desperate that he does succeed and even if we don't make the CL this time do not think he should be replaced as I feel that would be a disruption we wouldn't want and would again show the owners in a very bad light.

One of the most frustrating aspects of being a football fan of any club, is that a large proportion of fans think they are taking the moral high ground will blindly support any manager that occupies the chair at present, regardless of the situation. That is the only possible explanation I can think of as to why people at this stage feel he is the right man for the job.

Fair enough, some like Beefy have explained their reasons recently which is great, but from some of the comments in the early days of this thread, this "i'll support the current manager regardless" syndrome is still as true now as it was under the last manager, and the one before etc etc. Some people were saying yes at the start of this thread who most likely didnt have a fucking clue who he was other than what they had heard on here.

I agree with what you say hence my reason for asking those who did and do back Mancini totally what he has done with City to deserve that support.

[Im_Spartacus]

I have dipped into this thread for a read from time to time and watched the % figure to say Mancini is the man hover around and just below the 50% mark. So it's pretty well a total split amongst the fans as to those who say yes and those who are unsure or worse.

I was just wondering , as I don't really think I have seen the answers in this thread , what the yes voters would point to as the reasons why they have voted yes. What has he actually done since he has been here at City to suggest or prove that he is the man? Or is the yes vote mostly about the " fact" that he has done it before in Italy? Or is some of the yes vote just a reaction to your belief that the last manager wasn't the man and this one just has to be?

I am one of the unsure ones from the beginning and have seen nothing to change that opinion. I am though desperate that he does succeed and even if we don't make the CL this time do not think he should be replaced as I feel that would be a disruption we wouldn't want and would again show the owners in a very bad light.

One of the most frustrating aspects of being a football fan of any club, is that a large proportion of fans think they are taking the moral high ground will blindly support any manager that occupies the chair at present, regardless of the situation. That is the only possible explanation I can think of as to why people at this stage feel he is the right man for the job.

Fair enough, some like Beefy have explained their reasons recently which is great, but from some of the comments in the early days of this thread, this "i'll support the current manager regardless" syndrome is still as true now as it was under the last manager, and the one before etc etc. Some people were saying yes at the start of this thread who most likely didnt have a fucking clue who he was other than what they had heard on here.

I agree with what you say hence my reason for asking those who did and do back Mancini totally what he has done with City to deserve that support.

I think you will be waiting for a long time mate, because most who voted yes were hoping he is the man, rather than actually consciously thinking he is the man.

I've been far from happy with what i've seen, but still sit on dont know /erring to no because there has been nothing tangible for me to hang my hat on.

[Beefymcfc]

I have dipped into this thread for a read from time to time and watched the % figure to say Mancini is the man hover around and just below the 50% mark. So it's pretty well a total split amongst the fans as to those who say yes and those who are unsure or worse.

I was just wondering , as I don't really think I have seen the answers in this thread , what the yes voters would point to as the reasons why they have voted yes. What has he actually done since he has been here at City to suggest or prove that he is the man? Or is the yes vote mostly about the " fact" that he has done it before in Italy? Or is some of the yes vote just a reaction to your belief that the last manager wasn't the man and this one just has to be?

I am one of the unsure ones from the beginning and have seen nothing to change that opinion. I am though desperate that he does succeed and even if we don't make the CL this time do not think he should be replaced as I feel that would be a disruption we wouldn't want and would again show the owners in a very bad light.

One of the most frustrating aspects of being a football fan of any club, is that a large proportion of fans think they are taking the moral high ground will blindly support any manager that occupies the chair at present, regardless of the situation. That is the only possible explanation I can think of as to why people at this stage feel he is the right man for the job.

Fair enough, some like Beefy have explained their reasons recently which is great, but from some of the comments in the early days of this thread, this "i'll support the current manager regardless" syndrome is still as true now as it was under the last manager, and the one before etc etc. Some people were saying yes at the start of this thread who most likely didnt have a fucking clue who he was other than what they had heard on here.

I agree with what you say hence my reason for asking those who did and do back Mancini totally what he has done with City to deserve that support.

I think you will be waiting for a long time mate, because most who voted yes were hoping he is the man, rather than actually consciously thinking he is the man.

I've been far from happy with what i've seen, but still sit on dont know /erring to no because there has been nothing tangible for me to hang my hat on.

Don't have to wait long at all both of you. He is City's manager, so therefore gets my support. Simple isn't it?

[Im_Spartacus]

I have dipped into this thread for a read from time to time and watched the % figure to say Mancini is the man hover around and just below the 50% mark. So it's pretty well a total split amongst the fans as to those who say yes and those who are unsure or worse.

I was just wondering , as I don't really think I have seen the answers in this thread , what the yes voters would point to as the reasons why they have voted yes. What has he actually done since he has been here at City to suggest or prove that he is the man? Or is the yes vote mostly about the " fact" that he has done it before in Italy? Or is some of the yes vote just a reaction to your belief that the last manager wasn't the man and this one just has to be?

I am one of the unsure ones from the beginning and have seen nothing to change that opinion. I am though desperate that he does succeed and even if we don't make the CL this time do not think he should be replaced as I feel that would be a disruption we wouldn't want and would again show the owners in a very bad light.

One of the most frustrating aspects of being a football fan of any club, is that a large proportion of fans think they are taking the moral high ground will blindly support any manager that occupies the chair at present, regardless of the situation. That is the only possible explanation I can think of as to why people at this stage feel he is the right man for the job.

Fair enough, some like Beefy have explained their reasons recently which is great, but from some of the comments in the early days of this thread, this "i'll support the current manager regardless" syndrome is still as true now as it was under the last manager, and the one before etc etc. Some people were saying yes at the start of this thread who most likely didnt have a fucking clue who he was other than what they had heard on here.

I agree with what you say hence my reason for asking those who did and do back Mancini totally what he has done with City to deserve that support.

I think you will be waiting for a long time mate, because most who voted yes were hoping he is the man, rather than actually consciously thinking he is the man.

I've been far from happy with what i've seen, but still sit on dont know /erring to no because there has been nothing tangible for me to hang my hat on.

Don't have to wait long at all both of you. He is City's manager, so therefore gets my support. Simple isn't it?

I think that was exactly Doug's point - that is not answering the question. The question at the start of the thread was, "Is Bobby Mancini the MAN?" The point I made is that just because he is the present incumbent, doesnt mean that he is the right one, yet people will say he is under a sense of loyalty JUST because he is our manager.

I know you have recently changed your vote to yes based on some specific observations you made, I think that is what Doug is more interested in, rather than just the general sheep response of most that "he is our manager so I support him" - as that doesnt answer the question.

[john68]

I support Mancini and desperately want him to succeed, simply because if he does, then City do.
Having said that, I have yet to be convinced that he is the man to do the job. If anything I am currently in the don't know camp, edging towards no but am hoping that given time, he will eventually get it right.

[Swales4ever]

I think this is mancityfans.net, not bluemoon: hence is populated by adults rather than children.
What mostly differs adults from children is the experience/ability to part facts and reason from feelings/desires/preferences/hopes.
Everyone is entitled to have his own idea of football in terms of effectiveness/entertainement: thus some have plain reason to stand for the preference of the traditional 2 wingers array football personified, in our case, by Mark Hughes.
Given those assumptions, to me, what should be adult are:
a) to say Mancini is still far to prove he is the man - when it is to say the man who will bring league titles and/or CL protagonism;
b) to say an intelligent (prior than fair) assessment of such a fact (he is the man) might be effected only upon a full season and a main summer window to get players needed to play his football and help the existing team to properly fit with the gear;
c) to say " just because he is the present incumbent, doesnt mean he will deliver necessarely success (very TRUE)" - but adding straight and acting accordingly - "because he is the present incumbent (the City manager) he deserve to be supported", because to support the City manager is support City.
d) What support? Not that uncritical as per wise explamples from Douglas and johnpb78: thus not to say because he is in charge it means he will deliver. But Yes stop belittling his efforts to drive some organization in to the team, stop sizing his quotes to say he's an idiot because he praise the commitment of a less gifted Lad (Zaba), because he supports a countryman before a game of massive importance for his (Zaccheroni) reputation, because the result had gone on the opposite of what pitch told (last Stoke game/Sunderland) and so on...
And this mean of support, should not be intended because he is a "poor human being who deserve respect" - RM, same as MH, are 2 rich enough gentlemen which had been gifted enough to earn millions by making what we all pretend to do as an hobby of our free time and will continue to be so (gifted, lucky, rich) after their appearance at MCFC - No, that mean of support. should be intended because to make easy the City manager's life is to make easier City to grab the platform Owner needs to spend efficently his money, as highlighted by john68.
Everybody knows that one thing is an entitled good moan aimed to fight frustration after a disappointing result/not entertaining enough display, another one is when fans opinion leaders feed constantly the idea an inept moroon is in charge. This means of refused support, far from affect whatsoever a manager reputation, only drive the whole atmosphere surrounding the Team to uneffective standards and may result in kind of attendance's attitude like happened to be versus Liverpool, where a Team missing key players had not been supported as loud and passionatedly as it could had been given different circumstances.
This is a personal, arguable opinion of a foreigner fan and it must not be intended driven by the will of patronizing or sermonizing anyboby!

[Douglas Higginbottom]

I think this is mancityfans.net, not bluemoon: hence is populated by adults rather than children.
What mostly differs adults from children is the experience/ability to part facts and reason from feelings/desires/preferences/hopes.
Everyone is entitled to have his own idea of football in terms of effectiveness/entertainement: thus some have plain reason to stand for the preference of the traditional 2 wingers array football personified, in our case, by Mark Hughes.
Given those assumptions, to me, what should be adult are:
a) to say Mancini is still far to prove he is the man - when it is to say the man who will bring league titles and/or CL protagonism;
b) to say an intelligent (prior than fair) assessment of such a fact (he is the man) might be effected only upon a full season and a main summer window to get players needed to play his football and help the existing team to properly fit with the gear;
c) to say " just because he is the present incumbent, doesnt mean he will deliver necessarely success (very TRUE)" - but adding straight and acting accordingly - "because he is the present incumbent (the City manager) he deserve to be supported", because to support the City manager is support City.
d) What support? Not that uncritical as per wise explamples from Douglas and johnpb78: thus not to say because he is in charge it means he will deliver. But Yes stop belittling his efforts to drive some organization in to the team, stop sizing his quotes to say he's an idiot because he praise the commitment of a less gifted Lad (Zaba), because he supports a countryman before a game of massive importance for his (Zaccheroni) reputation, because the result had gone on the opposite of what pitch told (last Stoke game/Sunderland) and so on...
And this mean of support, should not be intended because he is a "poor human being who deserve respect" - RM, same as MH, are 2 rich enough gentlemen which had been gifted enough to earn millions by making what we all pretend to do as an hobby of our free time and will continue to be so (gifted, lucky, rich) after their appearance at MCFC - No, that mean of support. should be intended because to make easy the City manager's life is to make easier City to grab the platform Owner needs to spend efficently his money, as highlighted by john68.
Everybody knows that one thing is an entitled good moan aimed to fight frustration after a disappointing result/not entertaining enough display, another one is when fans opinion leaders feed constantly the idea an inept moroon is in charge. This means of refused support, far from affect whatsoever a manager reputation, only drive the whole atmosphere surrounding the Team to uneffective standards and may result in kind of attendance's attitude like happened to be versus Liverpool, where a Team missing key players had not been supported as loud and passionatedly as it could had been given different circumstances.
This is a personal, arguable opinion of a foreigner fan and it must not be intended driven by the will of patronizing or sermonizing anyboby!

Forgive me for not really understanding all you have said here but it does seem that in a) you are basically saying that so far at City he has done nothing to show you that he actually is the man for the job here.

[Swales4ever]

Forgive me for not really understanding all you have said here but it does seem that in a) you are basically saying that so far at City he has done nothing to show you that he actually is the man for the job here.

I do apologize for driving You, Mate, some headache in reading what is definitely not a fluent english. Sorry.
I am as well sure You have understood the meaning of each and every line I dropped, not only what You like..
I like to debate with You as much as I don't like to rift/feud with You.
I hope and expect You to act - even when debating with me - for what You are: a MCFC huge and true fan.

Cheers Dough... :-)

[Renato_CTID]

As I wrote yesterday on my website, there will be ten finals from today since the hammers game on May for telling is Mancio would be the man for us!

[Douglas Higginbottom]

Hmmm I don't think there is any rift or feud but little more than a difference of opinion probably. I will try to comment more on what you wrote and see if I do understand.
a) it does sound from your comment that you agree he has done nothing yet to show he is the man for City?
b) yes of course it's fairer and easier to say if he is the man after at least a year rather than 6 months. I was just asking ANYONE if they thought he had done anything yet to confirm the view.
c) of course I agree that there is no guarantee of success just because he is the manager and of course he deserves our support. And he has got mine but I am allowed to ask questions aren't I?
d) you make the same point as c) here I thnk. But re the Zaba comment has somebody actually said he is an idiot for saying what he did? I haven't even though I think he is wrong though to say that his best position is in midfield. Just my opinion and it worries me to think that Manicini thinks that is his best position.

The rest of what you said does lose me I am afraid. I will just wait to see what others might say to explain to me what M has done so far to confirm to them that he is the man.