Pot 2

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

When was the last time a team outside of Pot 1 mafia won the thing?

Cheers

Next year. That'll be the last time they let it happen. When we win it they'll tighten up their rules.

[DoomMerchant]

When was the last time a team outside of Pot 1 mafia won the thing?

Cheers

Next year. That'll be the last time they let it happen. When we win it they'll tighten up their rules.

i've looked back over the last 15 years and only Porto in ca. 2003 and Dortmund in 97 are outside Pot 1 candidates unless somehow Milan or Scouse filth were maybe Pot 2 when they did it. i couldn't really find anything that showed winners and their pots in one view, because apparently it's one of the most boring fucking questions in the world perhaps.

I wonder if SpartyAbacus has something he can titrate for me?

cheers

[Im_Spartacus]

When was the last time a team outside of Pot 1 mafia won the thing?

Cheers

Next year. That'll be the last time they let it happen. When we win it they'll tighten up their rules.

i've looked back over the last 15 years and only Porto in ca. 2003 and Dortmund in 97 are outside Pot 1 candidates unless somehow Milan or Scouse filth were maybe Pot 2 when they did it. i couldn't really find anything that showed winners and their pots in one view, because apparently it's one of the most boring fucking questions in the world perhaps.

I wonder if SpartyAbacus has something he can titrate for me?

cheers

I think the coefficient system only started in 2003

Porto were definitely not pot 1, and I suspect Liverpool probably weren't but the uefa tables seem to only start in 2005/6 on their website.

Inter were 11th in the coefficients the year they won it so they probably were in pot 2

Just change the year in the link to find the historic numbers

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/ ... ason=2005/

[I Just Blue Myself]

I recommend this website for seeding/coefficient information:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Porto were in pot 2, as were Liverpool according to these tables:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2003.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2004.html

Also, Dortmund were in pot 1 according to this website:

http://www.mogiel.net/EC/seed9697.php

[DoomMerchant]

I recommend this website for seeding/coefficient information:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Porto were in pot 2, as were Liverpool according to these tables:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2003.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2004.html

Also, Dortmund were in pot 1 according to this website:

http://www.mogiel.net/EC/seed9697.php

cheers for that guys....i appreciate your ability to use Google way way better than me. Fuck. I should start doing furniture refinishing for a line of work perhaps. I love to take an old dresser and strip it, etc.

So when i look at that we're 18th as of right now. Dortmund won't qualify for CL, but Schalke won't make it either so i guess that's us into 16th then, right? Germany will get four spots but the other 3 are far below us coefficient-wise. What pot does Sevilla go into if they win Europa? Can they actually leapfrog us or does the Europa League winner just trickle into the comp at qual stages?

also, i'd assume that these specific spots could shift a big depending on the last few weeks of league play, obvs, right?

Anyway, the basic premise i was making was....has anyone from outside Pot 1 won the comp recently, and it looks like the answer is yes, and it's just 2 teams from Pot 2.

They've stitched this up really tightly, the cunts. Until we can get into Pot 1 regularly, winning this is an absolute crapshoot and once a decade thing that MIGHT happen if we're amazing and lucky.

cheers

[Plain Speaking]

I recommend this website for seeding/coefficient information:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Porto were in pot 2, as were Liverpool according to these tables:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2003.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2004.html

Also, Dortmund were in pot 1 according to this website:

http://www.mogiel.net/EC/seed9697.php

cheers for that guys....i appreciate your ability to use Google way way better than me. Fuck. I should start doing furniture refinishing for a line of work perhaps. I love to take an old dresser and strip it, etc.

So when i look at that we're 18th as of right now. Dortmund won't qualify for CL, but Schalke won't make it either so i guess that's us into 16th then, right? Germany will get four spots but the other 3 are far below us coefficient-wise. What pot does Sevilla go into if they win Europa? Can they actually leapfrog us or does the Europa League winner just trickle into the comp at qual stages?

also, i'd assume that these specific spots could shift a big depending on the last few weeks of league play, obvs, right?

Anyway, the basic premise i was making was....has anyone from outside Pot 1 won the comp recently, and it looks like the answer is yes, and it's just 2 teams from Pot 2.

They've stitched this up really tightly, the cunts. Until we can get into Pot 1 regularly, winning this is an absolute crapshoot and once a decade thing that MIGHT happen if we're amazing and lucky.

cheers

Surely traditional pot 1 teams have won the CL, more than the other teams, because generally, pot 1 teams have been the best teams in the competition? Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc. would still challenge even in pot 4.

I agree, there have been "Groups of Death" where 3 or 4 teams can be very good, (usually with us in), and it's harder.

However, if you are good enough, you overcome the higher pot teams, like Porto and Dortmund did.

I certainly don't like the 5 year coefficient rules, and TV scheduling that can favour established clubs, but if you are good enough you still progress.

[DoomMerchant]

I recommend this website for seeding/coefficient information:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Porto were in pot 2, as were Liverpool according to these tables:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2003.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2004.html

Also, Dortmund were in pot 1 according to this website:

http://www.mogiel.net/EC/seed9697.php

cheers for that guys....i appreciate your ability to use Google way way better than me. Fuck. I should start doing furniture refinishing for a line of work perhaps. I love to take an old dresser and strip it, etc.

So when i look at that we're 18th as of right now. Dortmund won't qualify for CL, but Schalke won't make it either so i guess that's us into 16th then, right? Germany will get four spots but the other 3 are far below us coefficient-wise. What pot does Sevilla go into if they win Europa? Can they actually leapfrog us or does the Europa League winner just trickle into the comp at qual stages?

also, i'd assume that these specific spots could shift a big depending on the last few weeks of league play, obvs, right?

Anyway, the basic premise i was making was....has anyone from outside Pot 1 won the comp recently, and it looks like the answer is yes, and it's just 2 teams from Pot 2.

They've stitched this up really tightly, the cunts. Until we can get into Pot 1 regularly, winning this is an absolute crapshoot and once a decade thing that MIGHT happen if we're amazing and lucky.

cheers

Surely traditional pot 1 teams have won the CL, more than the other teams, because generally, pot 1 teams have been the best teams in the competition? Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc. would still challenge even in pot 4.

I agree, there have been "Groups of Death" where 3 or 4 teams can be very good, (usually with us in), and it's harder.

However, if you are good enough, you overcome the higher pot teams, like Porto and Dortmund did.

I certainly don't like the 5 year coefficient rules, and TV scheduling that can favour established clubs, but if you are good enough you still progress.

i'm talking about winning it.

cheers

[kinkylola]

if Barca win the la liga (a formality?), are Real Madrid in Pot 2?

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

I recommend this website for seeding/coefficient information:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Porto were in pot 2, as were Liverpool according to these tables:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2003.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2004.html

Also, Dortmund were in pot 1 according to this website:

http://www.mogiel.net/EC/seed9697.php

cheers for that guys....i appreciate your ability to use Google way way better than me. Fuck. I should start doing furniture refinishing for a line of work perhaps. I love to take an old dresser and strip it, etc.

So when i look at that we're 18th as of right now. Dortmund won't qualify for CL, but Schalke won't make it either so i guess that's us into 16th then, right? Germany will get four spots but the other 3 are far below us coefficient-wise. What pot does Sevilla go into if they win Europa? Can they actually leapfrog us or does the Europa League winner just trickle into the comp at qual stages?

also, i'd assume that these specific spots could shift a big depending on the last few weeks of league play, obvs, right?

Anyway, the basic premise i was making was....has anyone from outside Pot 1 won the comp recently, and it looks like the answer is yes, and it's just 2 teams from Pot 2.

They've stitched this up really tightly, the cunts. Until we can get into Pot 1 regularly, winning this is an absolute crapshoot and once a decade thing that MIGHT happen if we're amazing and lucky.

cheers

Surely traditional pot 1 teams have won the CL, more than the other teams, because generally, pot 1 teams have been the best teams in the competition? Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc. would still challenge even in pot 4.

I agree, there have been "Groups of Death" where 3 or 4 teams can be very good, (usually with us in), and it's harder.

However, if you are good enough, you overcome the higher pot teams, like Porto and Dortmund did.

I certainly don't like the 5 year coefficient rules, and TV scheduling that can favour established clubs, but if you are good enough you still progress.

It's a nice idea but a tad naive. It's hard enough to overcome wealthy established teams without having the tables tipped in their favour, and against you.
Let's not forget before the Champions League came into being, the European Cup was won by a greater variety of clubs. It's the system that allowed these clubs to become so successful and powerful.

[blues2win]

Either Barca or Real will be in Pot 2. Obviously it's almost certain to be Real. It doesn't affect our position. As far as I can see we are definitely the eighth and last club in Pot 2 based on our coefficient ranking.

What we do need is 1 more point to guarantee at least third place and avoid a qualifying round and fucked up pre season.

[Plain Speaking]

I recommend this website for seeding/coefficient information:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Porto were in pot 2, as were Liverpool according to these tables:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2003.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2004.html

Also, Dortmund were in pot 1 according to this website:

http://www.mogiel.net/EC/seed9697.php

cheers for that guys....i appreciate your ability to use Google way way better than me. Fuck. I should start doing furniture refinishing for a line of work perhaps. I love to take an old dresser and strip it, etc.

So when i look at that we're 18th as of right now. Dortmund won't qualify for CL, but Schalke won't make it either so i guess that's us into 16th then, right? Germany will get four spots but the other 3 are far below us coefficient-wise. What pot does Sevilla go into if they win Europa? Can they actually leapfrog us or does the Europa League winner just trickle into the comp at qual stages?

also, i'd assume that these specific spots could shift a big depending on the last few weeks of league play, obvs, right?

Anyway, the basic premise i was making was....has anyone from outside Pot 1 won the comp recently, and it looks like the answer is yes, and it's just 2 teams from Pot 2.

They've stitched this up really tightly, the cunts. Until we can get into Pot 1 regularly, winning this is an absolute crapshoot and once a decade thing that MIGHT happen if we're amazing and lucky.

cheers

Surely traditional pot 1 teams have won the CL, more than the other teams, because generally, pot 1 teams have been the best teams in the competition? Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc. would still challenge even in pot 4.

I agree, there have been "Groups of Death" where 3 or 4 teams can be very good, (usually with us in), and it's harder.

However, if you are good enough, you overcome the higher pot teams, like Porto and Dortmund did.

I certainly don't like the 5 year coefficient rules, and TV scheduling that can favour established clubs, but if you are good enough you still progress.

It's a nice idea but a tad naive. It's hard enough to overcome wealthy established teams without having the tables tipped in their favour, and against you.
Let's not forget before the Champions League came into being, the European Cup was won by a greater variety of clubs. It's the system that allowed these clubs to become so successful and powerful.

The old European Cup was a straight knockout competition, where you only had to win a small number of games. Nottingham Forest only had to beat 4 teams to reach the final. It was a lot easier to win that competition.

I don't think it's "naive" to suggest the major reason we we have not won it, is more how well we have been playing, rather than the pot we were drawn in. The best teams over the last 5 years Bayern, Barca, Real and Chelsea would likely be getting to the semifinals even if they started in pot 4. We have just not been good enough.

[Plain Speaking]

cheers for that guys....i appreciate your ability to use Google way way better than me. Fuck. I should start doing furniture refinishing for a line of work perhaps. I love to take an old dresser and strip it, etc.

So when i look at that we're 18th as of right now. Dortmund won't qualify for CL, but Schalke won't make it either so i guess that's us into 16th then, right? Germany will get four spots but the other 3 are far below us coefficient-wise. What pot does Sevilla go into if they win Europa? Can they actually leapfrog us or does the Europa League winner just trickle into the comp at qual stages?

also, i'd assume that these specific spots could shift a big depending on the last few weeks of league play, obvs, right?

Anyway, the basic premise i was making was....has anyone from outside Pot 1 won the comp recently, and it looks like the answer is yes, and it's just 2 teams from Pot 2.

They've stitched this up really tightly, the cunts. Until we can get into Pot 1 regularly, winning this is an absolute crapshoot and once a decade thing that MIGHT happen if we're amazing and lucky.

cheers

Surely traditional pot 1 teams have won the CL, more than the other teams, because generally, pot 1 teams have been the best teams in the competition? Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc. would still challenge even in pot 4.

I agree, there have been "Groups of Death" where 3 or 4 teams can be very good, (usually with us in), and it's harder.

However, if you are good enough, you overcome the higher pot teams, like Porto and Dortmund did.

I certainly don't like the 5 year coefficient rules, and TV scheduling that can favour established clubs, but if you are good enough you still progress.

i'm talking about winning it.

cheers

So was I, to win it you have to progress, past the other higher pot teams, as necessary.

[Ted Hughes]

I think our failure in Europe is down to the players & managers, not the system ( which stinks like a dead skunk serial killer wearing other dead skunks as clothes).

Our players have panicked under the weight of expectation & been beaten v inferior oppo & managers playing to their own systems rather than just trying to get a result.

But also, unless we have an 'a' list world beating superstar, we are relying on luck, oppo failings etc to actually win it imo. We should get to semis etc.

[Plain Speaking]

I think our failure in Europe is down to the players & managers, not the system ( which stinks like a dead skunk serial killer wearing other dead skunks as clothes).

Our players have panicked under the weight of expectation & been beaten v inferior oppo & managers playing to their own systems rather than just trying to get a result.

But also, unless we have an 'a' list world beating superstar, we are relying on luck, oppo failings etc to actually win it imo. We should get to semis etc.

I agree with that.
A top manager, (like say Mourinho?), can give a lesser team, self belief and confidence to over achieve. Like he did with Porto. Personally, I think our players, over the last few years could maybe have won it, with the right inspirational management, and some luck!

I believe we would have won the PL this season if the teams were the same and the two managers swapped. I don't like the guy but he breeds self belief and confidence.

[Foreverinbluedreams]

I think our failure in Europe is down to the players & managers, not the system ( which stinks like a dead skunk serial killer wearing other dead skunks as clothes).

Our players have panicked under the weight of expectation & been beaten v inferior oppo & managers playing to their own systems rather than just trying to get a result.

But also, unless we have an 'a' list world beating superstar, we are relying on luck, oppo failings etc to actually win it imo. We should get to semis etc.

I agree with that.
A top manager, (like say Mourinho?), can give a lesser team, self belief and confidence to over achieve. Like he did with Porto. Personally, I think our players, over the last few years could maybe have won it, with the right inspirational management, and some luck!

I believe we would have won the PL this season if the teams were the same and the two managers swapped. I don't like the guy but he breeds self belief and confidence.

What happened last season then? For someone that doesn't like the guy you don't half like lauding him.

[Plain Speaking]

I think our failure in Europe is down to the players & managers, not the system ( which stinks like a dead skunk serial killer wearing other dead skunks as clothes).

Our players have panicked under the weight of expectation & been beaten v inferior oppo & managers playing to their own systems rather than just trying to get a result.

But also, unless we have an 'a' list world beating superstar, we are relying on luck, oppo failings etc to actually win it imo. We should get to semis etc.

I agree with that.
A top manager, (like say Mourinho?), can give a lesser team, self belief and confidence to over achieve. Like he did with Porto. Personally, I think our players, over the last few years could maybe have won it, with the right inspirational management, and some luck!

I believe we would have won the PL this season if the teams were the same and the two managers swapped. I don't like the guy but he breeds self belief and confidence.

What happened last season then? For someone that doesn't like the guy you don't half like lauding him.

I think Mourinho is the best manager in World football but I hate his character, he's so arrogant.
Last season he predicted Chelsea wouldn't win the PL, until this season. I believe he wanted to prove to Abramovic, he needed new signings to win the PL. He was almost content not winning it, and saying, "I told you so". With their strong academy and astute activity in the transfer market, we have to get more commercial sponsorship so we can overtake them with better players.
A manager such as Pep, and a Lionel Messi would be perfect, I don't ask for much!

[Foreverinbluedreams]

I think our failure in Europe is down to the players & managers, not the system ( which stinks like a dead skunk serial killer wearing other dead skunks as clothes).

Our players have panicked under the weight of expectation & been beaten v inferior oppo & managers playing to their own systems rather than just trying to get a result.

But also, unless we have an 'a' list world beating superstar, we are relying on luck, oppo failings etc to actually win it imo. We should get to semis etc.

I agree with that.
A top manager, (like say Mourinho?), can give a lesser team, self belief and confidence to over achieve. Like he did with Porto. Personally, I think our players, over the last few years could maybe have won it, with the right inspirational management, and some luck!

I believe we would have won the PL this season if the teams were the same and the two managers swapped. I don't like the guy but he breeds self belief and confidence.

What happened last season then? For someone that doesn't like the guy you don't half like lauding him.

I think Mourinho is the best manager in World football but I hate his character, he's so arrogant.
Last season he predicted Chelsea wouldn't win the PL, until this season. I believe he wanted to prove to Abramovic, he needed new signings to win the PL. He was almost content not winning it, and saying, "I told you so". With their strong academy and astute activity in the transfer market, we have to get more commercial sponsorship so we can overtake them with better players.
A manager such as Pep, and a Lionel Messi would be perfect, I don't ask for much!

So he didn't win it last season on purpose?

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

You are igoring twenty odd years of CL and G14 cementing those clubs at the top of the game. Of course they became dominant because they have been snafffling all the TV cash! They take it back to their domestic leagues, have the advantage, qualify again, get more cash and so it goes on. Yes, a team had less games to get through to win it, but that is not the only reason a variety of clubs won it he European Cup. Money and G14 dictated that.

[Plain Speaking]

I think our failure in Europe is down to the players & managers, not the system ( which stinks like a dead skunk serial killer wearing other dead skunks as clothes).

Our players have panicked under the weight of expectation & been beaten v inferior oppo & managers playing to their own systems rather than just trying to get a result.

But also, unless we have an 'a' list world beating superstar, we are relying on luck, oppo failings etc to actually win it imo. We should get to semis etc.

I agree with that.
A top manager, (like say Mourinho?), can give a lesser team, self belief and confidence to over achieve. Like he did with Porto. Personally, I think our players, over the last few years could maybe have won it, with the right inspirational management, and some luck!

I believe we would have won the PL this season if the teams were the same and the two managers swapped. I don't like the guy but he breeds self belief and confidence.

What happened last season then? For someone that doesn't like the guy you don't half like lauding him.

I think Mourinho is the best manager in World football but I hate his character, he's so arrogant.
Last season he predicted Chelsea wouldn't win the PL, until this season. I believe he wanted to prove to Abramovic, he needed new signings to win the PL. He was almost content not winning it, and saying, "I told you so". With their strong academy and astute activity in the transfer market, we have to get more commercial sponsorship so we can overtake them with better players.
A manager such as Pep, and a Lionel Messi would be perfect, I don't ask for much!

So he didn't win it last season on purpose?

I don't believe he deliberately "didn't win it on purpose". However he was content, not to win it last year. This forced Abramovic, to give him the players he wanted in the summer.
He took the pressure off his players, telling them "I don't expect you to win it this year" and concentrated on coaching them in the way he wanted them to play. He is a keen strategist and psychologist. I believe he was playing the "long game".

[Plain Speaking]

You are igoring twenty odd years of CL and G14 cementing those clubs at the top of the game. Of course they became dominant because they have been snafffling all the TV cash! They take it back to their domestic leagues, have the advantage, qualify again, get more cash and so it goes on. Yes, a team had less games to get through to win it, but that is not the only reason a variety of clubs won it he European Cup. Money and G14 dictated that.

I agree with your comments about finance.

I accept, throughout the history of football, money has bought success. Spanish domestic TV deals for Barca and Real have certainly distorted La Liga. It is much harder now for the Nottingham Forests of this world, to conquer Europe. That's what makes Simeone's achievements with Athletico last year, so remarkable.

Both Chelsea and ourselves have had to have enormous financial inputs to break into the elite. Now the introduction of FFP, to protect the cartel.

I'm simply saying a position in one pot or another doesn't necessarily determine who will win the CL.