DoomMerchant wrote:Wonderwall wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:iwasthere2012 wrote:Wonderwall wrote:I dont see any reason why this could not be brought in and used perfectly well. I think that the games of Rugby and Cricket have been enhanced by the review system. There would need to be very clear rules though.*Who can review?
*How long should each review take?
*Should the clock be stopped?
*There should be no appeal on the outcome of the decision, ala JohnTerry and crew surrounding the ref feeling hard done to!
*Rules should be in place for allowing the game to flow until a natural stoppage before review, thus stopping coaches from influencing counter attacks.
*If a flag/review is raised, and the passage of play continues and a goal is scored, this means.
A- the appealing teams goal will count if they win or lose the appeal (unless an infringement is found on the appeal footage that wasnt called for originally.
B- the opposition of the appeals goal will count if the appeal is lost
C- the opposition of the appeals goal will not count if the appeal is upheld
*The opposition is not allowed to intervene in the appeal process, its not their appeal and therefore they have no say in what is being reviewed
Just a few for the list but its all fairly simple and common sense IMO
This is much more in line with what I was thinking. Very Good. Did you come up with this or was it buried somewhere in the BBC article.
This is much more like the Rugby model, which works very well and keeps the game flowing until a natural break. The advantage system works quite well too. This could help eradicate the blight on the game which is, the likes of Terry and team or Rooney/Rio etc in seasons past badgering the ref as a tactic.
A sin bin for this kind of behaviour could sort that out too.
You absolutely can't have the game continuing while a review is taking place. The possibilities for abuse & incompetence are absolutely terrifying.
That list was off the top of my head.
Ted I am not with you?
A flag is raised indicating a review, the 4th official confirms the details of the review and it goes upstairs. They can do the full review and if its upheld, stop the game before the ball goes out of play, what is wrong with that? How can that be abused? The players wont know? If the players know a review is pending, they might want it to e reviewed and kick the ball out? There are endless situations but I dont get where you are coming from?
some cunts will use a review flag to call back a breakaway tackle which leads to the review not being upheld and a breakaway or counter getting muffled out.
I think it has to be very simple....
Any cards can be reviewed. Yellow or red. Not the "absence" of a card in the natural run of play. For example tho, if someone was handed a yellow, but clearly it should have been a red that could be fixed. Or if the video replay judge decides that it was indeed a foul but not worthy of a yellow, then it gets rescinded. But if no call was made you couldn't just simply at the next stoppage of play demand a review and get a card doled out.
Simple as those two things. The hawkeye thingy or whatever takes care of the goal stuff so you don't need to add that into the mix.
I think if you add into it another level regarding things like corners vs goal kicks, or "non-calls" or other factors it just gets far too messy.
cheers
Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
Douglas Higginbottom wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
Sounds like 2 to 1 in City's favour so it's easy you send off Aguero.
And then send Gerrard off for stamping.
Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
Wonderwall wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
It might stop all the WWE moves being performed during every corner!
I agree with iwasthere2012, it will be a defined set of rules, this is for all teams to adhere to and the officials to carry out. You need to take that tin foil hat off Ted.
Blue Since 76 wrote:No thanks. It works in things like cricket and rugby as they are more naturally stop start. Which is why for most games you can count the crowd from a quick scan of the empty stands.
A better idea is every pundit had to call it the first time he sees it in real time. He then had to defend his decision through endless replays, some using 3D graphics. The following night, a group of ex-referees get to go on tv and complain about the shocking punditry and how it's got worse.
My favourite is when they say a player is "just offside", somehow criticising the linesman for a correct decision.
Ted Hughes wrote:Wonderwall wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
It might stop all the WWE moves being performed during every corner!
I agree with iwasthere2012, it will be a defined set of rules, this is for all teams to adhere to and the officials to carry out. You need to take that tin foil hat off Ted.
But it won't. The kind of instance I'm talking about is going to happen & it's going to be down to whether the video ref, decides to pick City, Liverpool, Utd, Whinger, Mourinho. How does the video ref decide ? He will give Liverpool the benefit of the doubt, & overturn the ref's decision. Then on Sky, they will all be arguing whether it was right or not, with Carragher saying it was accidental, Alan Smith agreeing & perhaps Neville saying they got away with one. So instead of the ref giving us a pen, we will be arguing why we didn't get one.
You really thing that all of a sudden, things will change ? Why ?
Can you tell me where you are going to find these people who are going to watch these replays & suddenly start interpreting things correctly & fairly without being influenced by outside pressure?
What exactly has been stopping them from giving Fellaini red cards for elbowing people in the face for instance ? The rules are there already, the video evidence is there, why has he got away with it all season ? They watch a replay of it, & decide there is no case to answer. We all know there is. They get it wrong.
This isn't going to happen during a game ?
Refs will be more inclined to give pens, because it can be overturned, so Rooney, Ashley Young, Sturridge etc, will be over at every touch, & if there is a 'touch' the ref will give it & the video will uphold it, wheras now, the ref may figure it's not enough contact. If he has a backup system, what the fuck, give it anyway.
iwasthere2012 wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:Wonderwall wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
It might stop all the WWE moves being performed during every corner!
I agree with iwasthere2012, it will be a defined set of rules, this is for all teams to adhere to and the officials to carry out. You need to take that tin foil hat off Ted.
But it won't. The kind of instance I'm talking about is going to happen & it's going to be down to whether the video ref, decides to pick City, Liverpool, Utd, Whinger, Mourinho. How does the video ref decide ? He will give Liverpool the benefit of the doubt, & overturn the ref's decision. Then on Sky, they will all be arguing whether it was right or not, with Carragher saying it was accidental, Alan Smith agreeing & perhaps Neville saying they got away with one. So instead of the ref giving us a pen, we will be arguing why we didn't get one.
You really thing that all of a sudden, things will change ? Why ?
Can you tell me where you are going to find these people who are going to watch these replays & suddenly start interpreting things correctly & fairly without being influenced by outside pressure?
What exactly has been stopping them from giving Fellaini red cards for elbowing people in the face for instance ? The rules are there already, the video evidence is there, why has he got away with it all season ? They watch a replay of it, & decide there is no case to answer. We all know there is. They get it wrong.
This isn't going to happen during a game ?
Refs will be more inclined to give pens, because it can be overturned, so Rooney, Ashley Young, Sturridge etc, will be over at every touch, & if there is a 'touch' the ref will give it & the video will uphold it, wheras now, the ref may figure it's not enough contact. If he has a backup system, what the fuck, give it anyway.
In fairness Ted so think what your first paragraph describes is the current way of things. What a form of TMO would do is make the calling immediate, rather than death by punditry.
I agree it is harder to get the balance right in football, but it shouldn't be dismissed as impossible.
Pundits would be irrelevant as they should be. They're all ex players with their allegiances. Part of the problem IMO is the lack of respect for the ref in soccer. Giving respect back and making any form of intimidation of him punishable is not a bad thing in my book.
Ted Hughes wrote:Wonderwall wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
It might stop all the WWE moves being performed during every corner!
I agree with iwasthere2012, it will be a defined set of rules, this is for all teams to adhere to and the officials to carry out. You need to take that tin foil hat off Ted.
But it won't. The kind of instance I'm talking about is going to happen & it's going to be down to whether the video ref, decides to pick City, Liverpool, Utd, Whinger, Mourinho. How does the video ref decide ? He will give Liverpool the benefit of the doubt, & overturn the ref's decision. Then on Sky, they will all be arguing whether it was right or not, with Carragher saying it was accidental, Alan Smith agreeing & perhaps Neville saying they got away with one. So instead of the ref giving us a pen, we will be arguing why we didn't get one.
You really thing that all of a sudden, things will change ? Why ?
Can you tell me where you are going to find these people who are going to watch these replays & suddenly start interpreting things correctly & fairly without being influenced by outside pressure?
What exactly has been stopping them from giving Fellaini red cards for elbowing people in the face for instance ? The rules are there already, the video evidence is there, why has he got away with it all season ? They watch a replay of it, & decide there is no case to answer. We all know there is. They get it wrong.
This isn't going to happen during a game ?
Refs will be more inclined to give pens, because it can be overturned, so Rooney, Ashley Young, Sturridge etc, will be over at every touch, & if there is a 'touch' the ref will give it & the video will uphold it, wheras now, the ref may figure it's not enough contact. If he has a backup system, what the fuck, give it anyway.
Wonderwall wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:Wonderwall wrote:Ted Hughes wrote:So a corner kick comes in, Dzeko heads it toward goal, but it hits Henderson on the arm on it's way into the net & deflects out. Ref gives a pen.
Liverpool appeal. On the replay we see that it's possible Henderson handled accidentally. As we are watching the replay, we also see that before the ball reached Dzeko, Kompany went to head it & was hauled back by Skrotal, but in the same picture, Aguero was pulling Johnson's shirt.
What decision does the video judge give ?
It might stop all the WWE moves being performed during every corner!
I agree with iwasthere2012, it will be a defined set of rules, this is for all teams to adhere to and the officials to carry out. You need to take that tin foil hat off Ted.
But it won't. The kind of instance I'm talking about is going to happen & it's going to be down to whether the video ref, decides to pick City, Liverpool, Utd, Whinger, Mourinho. How does the video ref decide ? He will give Liverpool the benefit of the doubt, & overturn the ref's decision. Then on Sky, they will all be arguing whether it was right or not, with Carragher saying it was accidental, Alan Smith agreeing & perhaps Neville saying they got away with one. So instead of the ref giving us a pen, we will be arguing why we didn't get one.
You really thing that all of a sudden, things will change ? Why ?
Can you tell me where you are going to find these people who are going to watch these replays & suddenly start interpreting things correctly & fairly without being influenced by outside pressure?
What exactly has been stopping them from giving Fellaini red cards for elbowing people in the face for instance ? The rules are there already, the video evidence is there, why has he got away with it all season ? They watch a replay of it, & decide there is no case to answer. We all know there is. They get it wrong.
This isn't going to happen during a game ?
Refs will be more inclined to give pens, because it can be overturned, so Rooney, Ashley Young, Sturridge etc, will be over at every touch, & if there is a 'touch' the ref will give it & the video will uphold it, wheras now, the ref may figure it's not enough contact. If he has a backup system, what the fuck, give it anyway.
With regards to who are they going to find. How about Ex Pros? The F1 stewards now have an Ex F1 Driver as the decision maker at each race and its different drivers all the time. There are enough GOOD ex pro's who could/would like to do this. They can also give rationale for their decision. The FA and Ref association are always going back to the point that ex pro's should be fast tracked into reffing, well here is an alternative.
On your point about Refs being inclined to give more pens, what would this achieve? If it isnt a pen, then its a yellow or 2nd yellow for simulation. The players you mention will know that if they dive, they will be caught out and punished.
There will always be a debate Ted, That's the beauty of the game. Sometimes there would be a decision and we could debate it on this board and have several different views on it. We have to accept that sometimes, it isn't possible to get that black and white clarity. However, what technology will do, is clear a lot of mistakes and ambiguity up.
Pretty Boy Lee wrote:Ted has hit the nail on the head for me.
Just as an example rugby league here has it and the wait for a decusion is so slow and boring it's a joke. When I 1st came to the country league was the game over here and everybody had a side. Since then year in year out they've chopped it up bit by bit and ruined it. Constant rule changes, teams in and out, league restructures, video replays. It no longer resembles what I watched as a Ali and I don't watch anymore. I'm not alone. It's dying a slow death here. Let's not tamper with football. It's the best sport in the world. Leave it be
Pretty Boy Lee wrote:Ted has hit the nail on the head for me.
Just as an example rugby league here has it and the wait for a decusion is so slow and boring it's a joke. When I 1st came to the country league was the game over here and everybody had a side. Since then year in year out they've chopped it up bit by bit and ruined it. Constant rule changes, teams in and out, league restructures, video replays. It no longer resembles what I watched as a Ali and I don't watch anymore. I'm not alone. It's dying a slow death here. Let's not tamper with football. It's the best sport in the world. Leave it be
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