NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Beefymcfc » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:28 pm

Fish111 wrote:Reports from Italy are suggesting Mourinho is on the brink of walking as he doesn't ''feel appreciated'' or ''loved'' by the fans, plus the fact results have been shite lately apparently. He's also been stated as wanting to come back to England.
Scum job isn't available yet, Chelsea are doing fine with Ancelotti, Liverpool can't afford to sack Benitez, Redknapp is doing fine at Spurs, O'Neill is doing equally well at Villa so that leaves us as a very attractive propect in England. I think he'd snap our hands off and bring a few trophies to Eastlands. I would want a new manager in place before January though, i have gone off the idea that Hughes can do a job for us now and why give him another 50M to spend?

I can't see Jose moving anywhere until the end of the season. Inter are currently 5 points clear in Serie A and are second in their CL group, with only 1 game to play away to bottom placed Zurich whilst 3rd placed Marseille have a big ask against Real who will definately want to finish top of the group. Yes, he has had a public bashing from his bosses, but I'm sure he'll want to prove he is up to the job rather than walking and losing respect within the game!
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby dikdik » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:53 pm

I don't think we have a problem with the players. I think the problem is management. I'm sorry to admit this but I was wrong. I was firmly of the opinion that the only way to progress was through continuity. Sacking managers willy nilly in our past has produced very little and I really really wanted Hughes to come good

BUT

I don't think he can.
It hurts me to say it but he doesn't have the AUTHORITY to dominate big players.
I watched him for a moment yesterday as he approached an injured Adebayor on the near touchline (I sit in row S behind the dugout) THere was no rapport between the two and I could swear the the player seemed to make a point of deliberately ignoring Hughes.
Do these big name players respect him as a manager? If not then he is never going to make it.

Hull like Burnley like Birmingham like Wigan etc etc started off at a hundered miles an hour whilst we warmed up to speed in the following ten minutes. (I know we had two corners in the first three minutes... but SWP's crosses!! that's a different story.)
There is no fire in the belly and certainly no feeling that this is a team playing for each other.
This is something that comes from the manager

As for tactics and substituions
PETROV for TEVEZ against Burnley (and played out of position)
SANTA CRUZ for ADEBAYOR against Hull (oh dear what a mistaken transfer methinks)

WE have the richest owners in the world. We don't have to wait. Ericksson did an excellent job in the first half of his season before Elano fomented revolt against him resulting in the Middlesbrough deabacle. Mark Hughes has had 18 months.
I am TOO OLD to wait another 35 years.
Please please let's change managers now
Hiddink, Mourinho either will do
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Dazzacity » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:20 pm

God, I hope this is true!!!!
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Vhero » Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:44 pm

Fish111 wrote:Reports from Italy are suggesting Mourinho is on the brink of walking as he doesn't ''feel appreciated'' or ''loved'' by the fans, plus the fact results have been shite lately apparently. He's also been stated as wanting to come back to England.
Scum job isn't available yet, Chelsea are doing fine with Ancelotti, Liverpool can't afford to sack Benitez, Redknapp is doing fine at Spurs, O'Neill is doing equally well at Villa so that leaves us as a very attractive propect in England. I think he'd snap our hands off and bring a few trophies to Eastlands. I would want a new manager in place before January though, i have gone off the idea that Hughes can do a job for us now and why give him another 50M to spend?

He has never felt appreciated since he started their whats changed?
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby rick1894citizen » Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:56 pm

Like everyone im hoping we book our place in the semi's and beat chelsea but i actually think if we go out of the cup and get a beating of chelsea then Khaldoon might have had enough and want to get someone in with a few week's to look at squad and have jan to strengthen.

Sounds daft because Arsenal and Chelsea next doesn't get much more difficult but my patience is wearing thin and most blues i know want him gone, although they have had problem with him from the start.

If he does then any of those 3 would do me nicely, Guus looked great with chelsea and Mourinho would guarantee trophies but not exciting football.
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby DoomMerchant » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:25 pm

yesterday was depressing. just watched the match in full after catching just about 1/3 of it yesterday while on the road.

this feels a little like the dying days of SP. I think Hughes has been found out. End of.

He'll end up with some middle-tier club, overachieving with a mixture of clogging and attacking football. it isn't for us. Somehow the team that annihilated sides last season just wasn't him. i think we're seeing him now. I want to see the back of him and fast. I'm sorry...i've had my fill of it...no matter how nice Mark B is to Dougie Higgins, and no matter how much i like how professional Hughes is with the media and how he comports himself and all his world-class football club talk. We need someone who has done this before at the highest level as a manager. it's as simple as that really. Why should we expect different results from him really? Players aren't buying it and neither am i.

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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby ant london » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:55 am

Interesting perspective in this article

http://www.footballfancast.com/football ... City_Blogs)


Football FanCast columnist David Mooney is disappointed with City’s form, but at the same time doesn’t feel that Mark Hughes should be under any such pressure as a result.

I have been known in the past to email the editor of this very website, to ask for ideas on what I can write. And, just after Manchester City had beaten Arsenal, I sent an email and he suggested to me ‘the changing attitude towards Mark Hughes’.

Initially, I was reluctant to write it, since I hadn’t really noticed a change in attitude towards him. What I had noticed was a lot of City fans weren’t chastising him for decisions or teams selections while the team was winning.

But now, after seven draws in seven games, the comments have returned. He’s spent £200m on a team that can’t win a game! He’s making daft substations and will only ever change like for like! He’s proved in 18 months that he’s not a clue how to manage a team of City’s calibre! He’s had the full support of the fans and the board and not produced the goods!

Risking the wrath of many of my fellow blues, I’d like to say one word in response: Crap.

The problem is, people, en masse, are idiots. That a national poster campaign to get people to vote for some talentless noise-polluter on the X Factor generates more votes from young people than it does when applied to political parties in a general election is just one example. Christ, a vote in a general election is important… Making sure something called a Jedward gets into the next round of a reality TV show isn’t, but try explaining that to the youth of Britain.

Let’s just say I’m thankful that the decision to sack Premier League managers isn’t done on the same system; Hughes would have gone long ago, without having had a fair crack of the whip. Just my opinion, but I’d like to explain why.

Many City fans wanted him gone this time last year. And to be honest with you, I was beginning to have my doubts, but I didn’t quite reach the Hughes Out! movement because of one deciding factor. The players that were then underperforming weren’t players that he had brought in; he was stuck with the deadwood from the previous regime.

And the second half of the season picked up; the performances got better, the UEFA Cup run nearly saw us beat Hamburg and that was still with some players Hughes didn’t want. Some questioned his tactics and substitutions, but, more often than not, he was trying to put square pegs in round holes… And, when the players that were neither bought nor wanted by him were neither playing well nor for him, in the eyes of some that was his fault. He can’t motivate the players! No, he couldn’t… How do you motivate someone who doesn’t want to be motivated; someone who doesn’t care about the result? They were duly dispatched in the summer.

One summer spending spree later, and City were in the process of playing excellent football – beating Blackburn, Wolves, Portsmouth and Arsenal, before almost securing a draw at Old Trafford in what was their worst performance up to that point. Scoring three at Old Trafford in your worst performance isn’t exactly a bad day at the office and it should have been enough to secure a point, but for a faulty stopwatch.

Since then, a run of seven draws has masked some good results.

Draws at Villa Park and Anfield were excellent. Wigan was a good point, since Zabaleta got himself sent off and Chelsea, who have destroyed the league so far this season, lost there. But those three good results were overshadowed by poor results against Fulham, Burnley and Hull at home – all draws from winning positions.

It’s disappointing, but it’s not a reason to sack a manager. Teams dip in form – Aston Villa picked up 11 points from their final 13 games of last season and weren’t playing anything like good football, but that wasn’t an excuse to sack Martin O’Neill – and if City’s dip in form is drawing seven on the trot then it’s a pretty good bad run of form to have. It could have been worse.

True it could have been better, but it could have been a lot worse.

The main argument against his management of City is that he’s had one of the best squads in the Premier League and done nothing with them in 18 months. But that comment, in itself, is slightly misleading. In his first season, City’s squad wasn’t exactly one of the best… The take-over came too late in September to truly affect how the team could be built before January and there can be no doubt that, after January, there was a notable improvement in results and performances.

In fact, you could argue that City have only been playing with Hughes’s team in the Premier League for 13 games, since the end of last season still contained a lot of deadwood. And of those 13, in my opinion eight have been good results [Blackburn, Wolves, Portsmouth, Arsenal, West Ham, Aston Villa, Wigan, Liverpool], one has been a good performance with a (very) unlucky result [Manchester United] and four have been bad results and poor performances [Fulham, Birmingham, Burnley, Hull]. Taking that into consideration, I think it would be quite unfair to sack the manager for drawing three home games from winning positions… It’s not like his team haven’t scored at home in months, which happened to City in very recent history and is still fresh in many City fans’ memories.

When you look at tactics, you can see that Hughes has made some errors in his time at City. But, then again, which manager doesn’t underestimate their opposition from time to time or make a substitution that negatively affects the game for his team? His biggest mistake appears to have been not tightening up the defence in the final few minutes when leading, notably against Fulham, Burnley and Hull (I would have said Liverpool too, but they equalised so quickly even The Doctor with his time manipulation abilities and his flying telephone box wouldn’t have been able to get a sub on in time there) with a defensive midfielder.

But hell, there were enough chances in those games before the equaliser for City to have been out of sight; it should never have come down to that. That we are defending badly in certain situations is a cause for concern, but it’s been getting better since the horror show of Old Trafford, where four defensive errors led to four goals; there have been errors, but they’re getting fewer and fewer… That’s not to say that it doesn’t still need work, but it does mean that some work is clearly being done.

And even in those seven games, City lost three of the corresponding fixtures [Aston Villa, Wigan, Fulham]. Two were against promoted teams, but we didn’t especially excel against promoted teams last season on the road, getting a point at Hull and nothing from West Brom or Stoke. So you could argue a draw with Birmingham isn’t regression from last season, despite an awful performance at St. Andrews.

Incidentally, this article doesn’t mean to say I’m happy having broken a club record for consecutive draws, far from it. I’m as disappointed with the current form as anybody. It just means that I don’t buy that sacking Mark Hughes would improve the team and their performances; after all, the team has lost once this season. The team is sitting in sixth place in the league – and if we finish there, it will be our best ever Premier League finish. That would be a bad season?

I know it’s something of a cliché, but Rome wasn’t built in a day. The City of Atlantis was built in a day, however, and look what happened to that; it sank and the architect was left was a lot of egg on his face. It may be slow and it might have been a bad run recently, but there is certainly improvement on last season for City. And on the season before that. And before that.

We’ve been successless for year on year and it doesn’t just take investment to change that. Problems can’t just be solved by throwing a bundle of cash at them. It takes time, a revamp of everything from the players on the pitch to facilities to the type of tea the tea lady brings around… And after all this time, I’m perfectly willing to wait a little bit longer, it’s not like we haven’t got it; football isn’t going to end in three seasons’ time and, if what I’m hearing about the new owners of City is correct, then they are very patient people, so they’re not likely to sack a manager on a whim of seven draws.

The manager needs time and that is what he should have. I firmly believe that, soon enough, this run of draws will end – rather unfortunately, probably in defeat to Chelsea this coming weekend, given how they have been tearing up everything they play against this season. Nevertheless, this team can get back to winning ways and hopefully it will be sooner rather than later; there needs to be some work done on defending and defending leads, but our season’s certainly not staring down the barrel of a loaded gun, with a man with an itchy trigger finger on the other end… We’re sixth, a point behind fifth with a game in hand on them.

And there’s a hell of a lot more football to play before the fat lady sings.
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Rag_hater » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:56 am

ant london wrote:Interesting perspective in this article

http://www.footballfancast.com/football ... City_Blogs)


Football FanCast columnist David Mooney is disappointed with City’s form, but at the same time doesn’t feel that Mark Hughes should be under any such pressure as a result.

I have been known in the past to email the editor of this very website, to ask for ideas on what I can write. And, just after Manchester City had beaten Arsenal, I sent an email and he suggested to me ‘the changing attitude towards Mark Hughes’.

Initially, I was reluctant to write it, since I hadn’t really noticed a change in attitude towards him. What I had noticed was a lot of City fans weren’t chastising him for decisions or teams selections while the team was winning.

But now, after seven draws in seven games, the comments have returned. He’s spent £200m on a team that can’t win a game! He’s making daft substations and will only ever change like for like! He’s proved in 18 months that he’s not a clue how to manage a team of City’s calibre! He’s had the full support of the fans and the board and not produced the goods!

Risking the wrath of many of my fellow blues, I’d like to say one word in response: Crap.

The problem is, people, en masse, are idiots. That a national poster campaign to get people to vote for some talentless noise-polluter on the X Factor generates more votes from young people than it does when applied to political parties in a general election is just one example. Christ, a vote in a general election is important… Making sure something called a Jedward gets into the next round of a reality TV show isn’t, but try explaining that to the youth of Britain.

Let’s just say I’m thankful that the decision to sack Premier League managers isn’t done on the same system; Hughes would have gone long ago, without having had a fair crack of the whip. Just my opinion, but I’d like to explain why.

Many City fans wanted him gone this time last year. And to be honest with you, I was beginning to have my doubts, but I didn’t quite reach the Hughes Out! movement because of one deciding factor. The players that were then underperforming weren’t players that he had brought in; he was stuck with the deadwood from the previous regime.

And the second half of the season picked up; the performances got better, the UEFA Cup run nearly saw us beat Hamburg and that was still with some players Hughes didn’t want. Some questioned his tactics and substitutions, but, more often than not, he was trying to put square pegs in round holes… And, when the players that were neither bought nor wanted by him were neither playing well nor for him, in the eyes of some that was his fault. He can’t motivate the players! No, he couldn’t… How do you motivate someone who doesn’t want to be motivated; someone who doesn’t care about the result? They were duly dispatched in the summer.

One summer spending spree later, and City were in the process of playing excellent football – beating Blackburn, Wolves, Portsmouth and Arsenal, before almost securing a draw at Old Trafford in what was their worst performance up to that point. Scoring three at Old Trafford in your worst performance isn’t exactly a bad day at the office and it should have been enough to secure a point, but for a faulty stopwatch.

Since then, a run of seven draws has masked some good results.

Draws at Villa Park and Anfield were excellent. Wigan was a good point, since Zabaleta got himself sent off and Chelsea, who have destroyed the league so far this season, lost there. But those three good results were overshadowed by poor results against Fulham, Burnley and Hull at home – all draws from winning positions.

It’s disappointing, but it’s not a reason to sack a manager. Teams dip in form – Aston Villa picked up 11 points from their final 13 games of last season and weren’t playing anything like good football, but that wasn’t an excuse to sack Martin O’Neill – and if City’s dip in form is drawing seven on the trot then it’s a pretty good bad run of form to have. It could have been worse.

True it could have been better, but it could have been a lot worse.

The main argument against his management of City is that he’s had one of the best squads in the Premier League and done nothing with them in 18 months. But that comment, in itself, is slightly misleading. In his first season, City’s squad wasn’t exactly one of the best… The take-over came too late in September to truly affect how the team could be built before January and there can be no doubt that, after January, there was a notable improvement in results and performances.

In fact, you could argue that City have only been playing with Hughes’s team in the Premier League for 13 games, since the end of last season still contained a lot of deadwood. And of those 13, in my opinion eight have been good results [Blackburn, Wolves, Portsmouth, Arsenal, West Ham, Aston Villa, Wigan, Liverpool], one has been a good performance with a (very) unlucky result [Manchester U***d] and four have been bad results and poor performances [Fulham, Birmingham, Burnley, Hull]. Taking that into consideration, I think it would be quite unfair to sack the manager for drawing three home games from winning positions… It’s not like his team haven’t scored at home in months, which happened to City in very recent history and is still fresh in many City fans’ memories.

When you look at tactics, you can see that Hughes has made some errors in his time at City. But, then again, which manager doesn’t underestimate their opposition from time to time or make a substitution that negatively affects the game for his team? His biggest mistake appears to have been not tightening up the defence in the final few minutes when leading, notably against Fulham, Burnley and Hull (I would have said Liverpool too, but they equalised so quickly even The Doctor with his time manipulation abilities and his flying telephone box wouldn’t have been able to get a sub on in time there) with a defensive midfielder.

But hell, there were enough chances in those games before the equaliser for City to have been out of sight; it should never have come down to that. That we are defending badly in certain situations is a cause for concern, but it’s been getting better since the horror show of Old Trafford, where four defensive errors led to four goals; there have been errors, but they’re getting fewer and fewer… That’s not to say that it doesn’t still need work, but it does mean that some work is clearly being done.

And even in those seven games, City lost three of the corresponding fixtures [Aston Villa, Wigan, Fulham]. Two were against promoted teams, but we didn’t especially excel against promoted teams last season on the road, getting a point at Hull and nothing from West Brom or Stoke. So you could argue a draw with Birmingham isn’t regression from last season, despite an awful performance at St. Andrews.

Incidentally, this article doesn’t mean to say I’m happy having broken a club record for consecutive draws, far from it. I’m as disappointed with the current form as anybody. It just means that I don’t buy that sacking Mark Hughes would improve the team and their performances; after all, the team has lost once this season. The team is sitting in sixth place in the league – and if we finish there, it will be our best ever Premier League finish. That would be a bad season?

I know it’s something of a cliché, but Rome wasn’t built in a day. The City of Atlantis was built in a day, however, and look what happened to that; it sank and the architect was left was a lot of egg on his face. It may be slow and it might have been a bad run recently, but there is certainly improvement on last season for City. And on the season before that. And before that.

We’ve been successless for year on year and it doesn’t just take investment to change that. Problems can’t just be solved by throwing a bundle of cash at them. It takes time, a revamp of everything from the players on the pitch to facilities to the type of tea the tea lady brings around… And after all this time, I’m perfectly willing to wait a little bit longer, it’s not like we haven’t got it; football isn’t going to end in three seasons’ time and, if what I’m hearing about the new owners of City is correct, then they are very patient people, so they’re not likely to sack a manager on a whim of seven draws.

The manager needs time and that is what he should have. I firmly believe that, soon enough, this run of draws will end – rather unfortunately, probably in defeat to Chelsea this coming weekend, given how they have been tearing up everything they play against this season. Nevertheless, this team can get back to winning ways and hopefully it will be sooner rather than later; there needs to be some work done on defending and defending leads, but our season’s certainly not staring down the barrel of a loaded gun, with a man with an itchy trigger finger on the other end… We’re sixth, a point behind fifth with a game in hand on them.

And there’s a hell of a lot more football to play before the fat lady sings.



He says he has one word to say on the issue and that is "Crap" and then goes on to write an essay that is "Crap".

What a load of BS.
If he thinks that its only 13 games that the clueless one can be judged on he is surely deluded.
I've never heard a regime blame the previous set up as much as this one for its own shortcomings.
And if we have ideas of being the best in the conntry surley beating Chelski next week is the kind of thing we should be aiming for not saying our drawing run will come to an end by losing to them.
All this deadwood he keeps referring to got us more points and less loses than the clueless ones deadwood.
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby BobKowalski » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:29 am

Rag_hater wrote:
I've never heard a regime blame the previous set up as much as this one for its own shortcomings.


I know it drives me insane as well. Get a grip and take responsibility appears to be absent from the Hughes school of management. I am tired of the endless excuses as to why we cannot perform. I am alarmed by the recurring pattern with City under Hughes. Buy new players; they start well; then gradual and terminal decline in their performances save for the odd stirring display which papers over the cracks. Hamburg last year and I expect the same on Wednesday (fingers crossed!).

There comes a time when you have to stop beating your head against the wall and wonder if there is a better solution out there.
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby pepsi_dave » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:09 pm

I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Rag_hater » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:26 pm

pepsi_dave wrote:I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!


You make excuses for him like he is new to the job.He has been taking us backwards for 18 months now and with vast sums of money. He managed to tread water with BB for a long time before us, so to me it looks like I can judge where his niche is, and its no better than where we are now.
I'm not impressed with the fact that we have a state of the art training facilty.Hardly cause for a wankfest considering the money we have.Anybody can get whats needed if they have the money.
And I've never seen the benefit of stability if you dont have the right thing in the first place.
Stability on here is vastly overrated.
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Original Dub » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:31 pm

Rag_hater wrote:
pepsi_dave wrote:I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!


You make excuses for him like he is new to the job.He has been taking us backwards for 18 months now and with vast sums of money. He managed to tread water with BB for a long time before us, so to me it looks like I can judge where his niche is, and its no better than where we are now.
I'm not impressed with the fact that we have a state of the art training facilty.Hardly cause for a wankfest considering the money we have.Anybody can get whats needed if they have the money.
And I've never seen the benefit of stability if you dont have the right thing in the first place.
Stability on here is vastly overrated.


Whatever about him being the right man for the future, saying he has taken us backwards when we're 3 points off fourth with a game in hand is a bit silly would you not agree?
Original Dub
 

Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby pepsi_dave » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:40 pm

Rag_hater wrote:
pepsi_dave wrote:I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!


You make excuses for him like he is new to the job.He has been taking us backwards for 18 months now and with vast sums of money. He managed to tread water with BB for a long time before us, so to me it looks like I can judge where his niche is, and its no better than where we are now.
I'm not impressed with the fact that we have a state of the art training facilty.Hardly cause for a wankfest considering the money we have.Anybody can get whats needed if they have the money.
And I've never seen the benefit of stability if you dont have the right thing in the first place.
Stability on here is vastly overrated.


How can you possibly make such a comment this time last season where were we??? This time last season we were 15th with 16 points, at the moment we are 3 points away from the Champions League, how can the ever be classed as taking us backwards!!!

I don't make excuses, I openly admitted that we are on a terrible run, and I am, as you are, pretty pissed off, but I maintain perspective and I think I give an honest assessment of our current position. I say things as I see them without blinkered vision based purely on the fact he used to play for "them"...... I really do think some people need to get over it/themselves and grow up a little bit.

To think of pressing the panic button and getting rid of a Manager who currently has us 3 points away from 4th is ludicrous in my opinion.

Stability is overrated, and you can't see the benefit of it...... U***d and Arsenal is all I need to say on that matter!!!!
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Rag_hater » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:41 pm

Original Dub wrote:
Rag_hater wrote:
pepsi_dave wrote:I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!


You make excuses for him like he is new to the job.He has been taking us backwards for 18 months now and with vast sums of money. He managed to tread water with BB for a long time before us, so to me it looks like I can judge where his niche is, and its no better than where we are now.
I'm not impressed with the fact that we have a state of the art training facilty.Hardly cause for a wankfest considering the money we have.Anybody can get whats needed if they have the money.
And I've never seen the benefit of stability if you dont have the right thing in the first place.
Stability on here is vastly overrated.


Whatever about him being the right man for the future, saying he has taken us backwards when we're 3 points off fourth with a game in hand is a bit silly would you not agree?


So far from what I have seen so far this season he has taken us backwards but the season isnt over yet.
Last season was a backwards step in the fact that we finished lower in the league with fewer points and more losses than the year before.
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Original Dub » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:45 pm

Rag_hater wrote:
Original Dub wrote:
Rag_hater wrote:
pepsi_dave wrote:I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!


You make excuses for him like he is new to the job.He has been taking us backwards for 18 months now and with vast sums of money. He managed to tread water with BB for a long time before us, so to me it looks like I can judge where his niche is, and its no better than where we are now.
I'm not impressed with the fact that we have a state of the art training facilty.Hardly cause for a wankfest considering the money we have.Anybody can get whats needed if they have the money.
And I've never seen the benefit of stability if you dont have the right thing in the first place.
Stability on here is vastly overrated.


Whatever about him being the right man for the future, saying he has taken us backwards when we're 3 points off fourth with a game in hand is a bit silly would you not agree?


So far from what I have seen so far this season he has taken us backwards but the season isnt over yet.
Last season was a backwards step in the fact that we finished lower in the league with fewer points and more losses than the year before.


So you think we're worse this season than we were last season then? Because you said we have been going "backwards for 18 months now", yet we are 3 points off fourth with a game in hand and one game away from the semi final of the cup.

Unless I've lost my marbles, he has taken us forward over the last 18 months. Granted, the season isn't over but you did say months rather than full seasons.

No, there's no doubt about it that at this moment in time he has taken us forward from last season in pretty much all aspects.

The only problem people have is that he may not be taking us forwards at a quick enough pace.
Original Dub
 

Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby pepsi_dave » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:50 pm

Original Dub wrote:
Rag_hater wrote:
Original Dub wrote:
Rag_hater wrote:
pepsi_dave wrote:I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!


You make excuses for him like he is new to the job.He has been taking us backwards for 18 months now and with vast sums of money. He managed to tread water with BB for a long time before us, so to me it looks like I can judge where his niche is, and its no better than where we are now.
I'm not impressed with the fact that we have a state of the art training facilty.Hardly cause for a wankfest considering the money we have.Anybody can get whats needed if they have the money.
And I've never seen the benefit of stability if you dont have the right thing in the first place.
Stability on here is vastly overrated.


Whatever about him being the right man for the future, saying he has taken us backwards when we're 3 points off fourth with a game in hand is a bit silly would you not agree?


So far from what I have seen so far this season he has taken us backwards but the season isnt over yet.
Last season was a backwards step in the fact that we finished lower in the league with fewer points and more losses than the year before.


So you think we're worse this season than we were last season then? Because you said we have been going "backwards for 18 months now", yet we are 3 points off fourth with a game in hand and one game away from the semi final of the cup.

Unless I've lost my marbles, he has taken us forward over the last 18 months. Granted, the season isn't over but you did say months rather than full seasons.

No, there's no doubt about it that at this moment in time he has taken us forward from last season in pretty much all aspects.

The only problem people have is that he may not be taking us forwards at a quick enough pace.


Agreed, just because we have spent money and have got money doesn't give us immediate right to go out and win every competition we enter. We are making progress, and we are still more than in reach of that coveted top 4 spot, and as you rightly say within reach of a semi final which we have not reached in years. I just wish more of our "fans" would share that Point of view!
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Rag_hater » Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:56 pm

Original Dub wrote:
Rag_hater wrote:
Original Dub wrote:
Rag_hater wrote:
pepsi_dave wrote:I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!


You make excuses for him like he is new to the job.He has been taking us backwards for 18 months now and with vast sums of money. He managed to tread water with BB for a long time before us, so to me it looks like I can judge where his niche is, and its no better than where we are now.
I'm not impressed with the fact that we have a state of the art training facilty.Hardly cause for a wankfest considering the money we have.Anybody can get whats needed if they have the money.
And I've never seen the benefit of stability if you dont have the right thing in the first place.
Stability on here is vastly overrated.


Whatever about him being the right man for the future, saying he has taken us backwards when we're 3 points off fourth with a game in hand is a bit silly would you not agree?


So far from what I have seen so far this season he has taken us backwards but the season isnt over yet.
Last season was a backwards step in the fact that we finished lower in the league with fewer points and more losses than the year before.


So you think we're worse this season than we were last season then? Because you said we have been going "backwards for 18 months now", yet we are 3 points off fourth with a game in hand and one game away from the semi final of the cup.

Unless I've lost my marbles, he has taken us forward over the last 18 months. Granted, the season isn't over but you did say months rather than full seasons.

No, there's no doubt about it that at this moment in time he has taken us forward from last season in pretty much all aspects.

The only problem people have is that he may not be taking us forwards at a quick enough pace.


He has Superman playing worse,the defense is worse,we are not as creative as we were last year.
According to those who go to the games SWP is getting worse along with Barry.
All signs of going backwards in my book along with some other things.
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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Original Dub » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:07 pm

Mr Hater:

You should really list off the "some other things" mate...

But I'll try deal with the major ones you listed:

Superman - was originally told to play in a different role/system which didn't suit him, as confirmed by both hughes and Ireland. He was then played in his normal position against Scunthorp, Liverpool and Hull where I think he looked like the player of last season. You also forget to mention that Ireland improved dramatically under Hughes as he confirmed himself, since hughes took over, but that doesn't "suit" your argument...

SWP - you have argued up and down the board that SWP has been playing very well this season. And surely its your opinion you should be giving? So we'll rule that one out as well then, or else admit he has been shit? Up to you...

The defence - are we leaking a lot more goals than last season? You're the stat man, let me know?

Overall mate, you're reasons for proclaiming that we have gone backwards in the last 18 months are weak as hell. We are 3 points off fourth with a game in hand. Hardly a disaster for a team who, if finishes in fourth, will have had a fantastic season by anyone's standards... we are a game away from our first cup semi final in years... hardly a disaster.

In fact, and I do like facts, there is NO DOUBT we have come forward in the last 18 months. I would like us to have moved further forward, but forward we have most definitely come.
Original Dub
 

Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby DoomMerchant » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:22 pm

Original Dub wrote:Mr Hater:

You should really list off the "some other things" mate...

But I'll try deal with the major ones you listed:

Superman - was originally told to play in a different role/system which didn't suit him, as confirmed by both hughes and Ireland. He was then played in his normal position against Scunthorp, Liverpool and Hull where I think he looked like the player of last season. You also forget to mention that Ireland improved dramatically under Hughes as he confirmed himself, since hughes took over, but that doesn't "suit" your argument...

SWP - you have argued up and down the board that SWP has been playing very well this season. And surely its your opinion you should be giving? So we'll rule that one out as well then, or else admit he has been shit? Up to you...

The defence - are we leaking a lot more goals than last season? You're the stat man, let me know?

Overall mate, you're reasons for proclaiming that we have gone backwards in the last 18 months are weak as hell. We are 3 points off fourth with a game in hand. Hardly a disaster for a team who, if finishes in fourth, will have had a fantastic season by anyone's standards... we are a game away from our first cup semi final in years... hardly a disaster.

In fact, and I do like facts, there is NO DOUBT we have come forward in the last 18 months. I would like us to have moved further forward, but forward we have most definitely come.


i would agree that we've taken big strides forward in the last 18 months. Should we expect anything different being the richest fuclin club in the world? I'm not impatient. But at some point you have to ask the hard question about what Hughes is proving and how he'll make this club competitive with the best in the world. Won't happen overnight. But surely won't happen drawing against the likes of Hull and Burnley at home. And the players just don't look convinced. If my team at my job loses faith in me and stops working on my behalf i can replace all of them all day, but eventually unless i get it sorted i will be the one sacked. That's simply business.

When you have a job at a level you've never had any experience at previously, your management and ownership are taking a serious gamble. If you were to predict results you'd have to say odds are in favor of Hughes failing to get us into CL or win anything beyond maybe a League or FA Cup. I'd be happy with the latter of course, but i think we're fooling ourselves if we think Hughes experience with Wales or Blackburn has groomed him for what our new expectations are for City. That's how i feel after 16 months of Hughes. I'm willing to let December run it's course, but i just can't see anything incredibly positive happening. Hope i'm wrong.

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Re: NOTW - Taxi for Hughes

Postby Socrates » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:24 pm

pepsi_dave wrote:I am honestly shocked, but not surprised ar everyones reactions!

FFS we are still only 3 points of 4th..... yes we all know we have had a terrible run of results..... is it really the Managers fault the penalty was given regardless of how soft it was. Ok i know we didn't play great and we should have put the game to bed.

But I really think people need to get a sense of perspective, 3 points of 4th with another 25 games to go!!!! It's hardly panic stations is it, I know that because he is an ex-rag people seem intent on trying to stir up trouble and have the manager sacked because of a poor run of form, but lets be honest, is it really right to get rid when you look at our current league position and situation?

Also everyone seems to forget that this is a long term project, and to accomplish this we need stability.... in fact I'd be really interested to find out how many of the "outers" were calling for stability when we seemed to have a revolving door of managers!!!

I heard on Talk Shite with Stan Dogging Collymore that at Blackburn Hughes used to get results, and ANY result was a good result, the same for Wales, but these results are not good enough for City. While agree with what he said, the main sentiment was for a change in Management, but IMO as much as what Collymore said was correct, this is also a new venture for Hughes and he himself will need to find his "Niche" at this level. I am of the opinion that he will do, and hopefully sooner rather than later.

The likes of Baconface, Mourinho, Ancelotti, Wenger etc didnt start out as great managers, they had to learn their trade, and they had the presence of mind to assess what they needed to change, the did that, and now look at them. We all have commented in the past about how professional Hughes comes accross with his assessments in the media about a number of subject, in particular the state of the club when he joined - when you look at the facilities now, and structure of Higher Management/Executives I think it's fair to say that he knows what is needed.

If this turns out to be our poor run, and we go on a run of something like 10 games won in a row (which isn't impossible by any stretch) then we will look back and think about how good our poor run actually turned out to be!!!


Perspective people, Perspective!!!


Let's be honest though, he has shown no real sign yet that he has what it takes to make that step up. He may have a clue what the organisation needed to make it more like the Bayern Munich setup he admired so much - though I think you are clutching at straws to try and credit him with changes at executive level! - but it's on the field that he seems to be falling woefully short. I've always been sceptical that he has what it takes but always accepted the possibility that the step up may not be beyond him. But as time goes on, it is looking even less likely that he can do it. He starts the season looking to be more adventurous on the pitch but he minute something goes wrong he just reverts to type. He doesn't have the courage. Simple as that.

You are right to a point with your last point - he has to produce something pretty spectacular now to make up for 2 whole calendar months without a Premier League win!

And while I would never lower myself to listen to TalkShite, Collydog has a point. It's wins that count at the top end of the table not just avoiding losses.
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