View from the Rags

Here is the place to talk about all things city and football!

View from the Rags

Postby CuteMancs » Sat Mar 05, 2022 3:01 pm

I never look forward to this game and nothing that has happened in the last few weeks has changed my mind. Pep said in the press conference, something like, this is just one more game on the way to the title and that’s the priority. I totally agree with this, but the derby is not just another game, and sad to say Pep has never understood that. It’s brilliant so see the rags in so much pain, but I am not at all confident, in fact I feel sick thinking about it. I will do my best and wear my lucky socks and keep everything crossed…COME ON CITY!!!

Referee: Michael Oliver
Assistants: Simon Bennett, Scott Ledger
Fourth official: Andy Madley
VAR: Stuart Attwell
Assistant VAR: Darren Cann

Team Selection

De Gea
AWB Lindelof Varane Telles
Pogba Matic Fred
Elanga Bruno Sancho

And the rest…


We’ll finally get the pasting we have had coming for months.

City will wipe their shit-stained boots on us.

They won't have to play high gear football…2:0 after some relaxing game from them, full of correct passing & positioning.

Park the bus Ralf. Looking forward to this actually because this is Ralf's first big premier league game (i think) and I want to see how he does in the big games.
I'm hopeful that we might pull off a surprise.

Just want this campaign to end.

You know what the worst thing is about this game? There is nothing we can do to influence the outcome. No formation we can try, no line up. They can score whatever number of goals they desire, and we can’t do anything about it. They can score one and save energy for the next game or they can utterly demolish us. All we can do is hope Guardiola lets us off easy, like in the first game this season. Ralf better rest key players for games that matter…3:0 after the first half.

To make matters worse, if we get any type of result, it ultimately will benefit Liverpool for the title race.

Big performance incoming 1-2.

I could see us sneaking a win or a draw, rolling over like bitches at Anfield and fecking a load of other matches up before the end of the season so that Liverpool win the title and we're grateful for an EL spot. This season has been like being constantly kicked in the bollocks while barefoot on a pile of Lego.

Rangnicks first real test. We're going to get slaughtered.

City haven’t exactly been on top form recently. Could be a good time to play them.

Fortunately city don’t look great at the moment, they’ll still win and fairly comfortably, but I don’t see it being an absolute walk over.

Pep could rest his best players in this one and they would still take us apart.

The lads will try their best and still get embarrassed. Hard to see this one going our way.

2-0, first goal will come in first 15', then they'll have 80% possession, and score another one in second half when we are already logged out of the game and Ronaldo is throwing arms. I hate playing Pep teams.

If we play Ronaldo then City players will be dancing in the dressing room. We can't compete with City playing with 10 men.I'd play Sancho Elanga and probably Rashford (begrudgingly just because of his pace) as a front 3 and look to counter attack. That's our only hope.Ronaldo needs to retire. This isn't the league for a 37 yr old. He's done at this level.

Make no mistake we'll twat them and then drop points to norwich whilst handing the title to the dippers and missing out on CL.

City have struggled recently, an easy win for UTD, put yer house on it!

Cannot start Pogba. He wont get near the city players.

The game which will kill our top 4 chances.

We need to drop Ronaldo to have a chance I think. Go 4 central midfielders and then Elanga and Sancho on the counter.

Ok. I’m gonna go against the grain on this thread and say United will have their game of the season. 1-2 United.

I don’t want the scousers to win the title, so I’m fine taking a beating here.

5-1 Citeh. And Ronaldo to throw a strop at the end.

It's a game for discipline, hard work and energy - that's why Ronaldo, Shaw, Maguire and Matic should be starting on the bench.

Michael Liverpool Oliver the ref. Don't be surprised United get a penalty or two in this game and left to wonder how and why it was awarded.

This will be the game that will cause us to collectively realize we are now Arsenal.

First properly good team we will have played under Ragnick and feel we’ll get shredded unless he drops our older and slower players here. They are susceptible against counters, no need to try anything special against them given how bad we’ve looked too often this season.

Every year we get predictions here about getting smashed away to City. Never happens.

Just don't play Maguire…There... Tactical brilliance for free.

Wow it’s amazing how far we have fallen if you look at the odds. It’s like Man City are playing Stoke city. Man Utd 13/2 to win, what a joke of a football team we have become. They are already almost 30 pts clear of us with loads of games left to play…The Glazers should hang their head in shame but I know they couldn’t give a damn.
Image


I usually treat my body like a temple. Last night I treated mine like a whorehouse above a liquor store next to a motherfucking Taco Bell.
CuteMancs
De Jong's Tackle
 
Posts: 1244
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:24 am
Location: Manchester
Supporter of: MCFC

Re: View from the Rags

Postby nottsblue » Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:17 pm

Cheers CM.

TBH I'm a bit surprised at the general feeling of doom and gloom amongst their fans. This deffo is not going to be the slaughtering a fair few are predicting

Take any old win any old how
nottsblue
Anna Connell's Vision
 
Posts: 32462
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:17 pm
Location: Nottingham
Supporter of: manchester city
My favourite player is: niall Quinn & Kun

Re: View from the Rags

Postby Harry Dowd scored » Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:23 pm

Cheers CM, I agree with you on the Pep doesn’t get the passion of the local Derby just another PL game to him, I am not confident at all, but we will see.
This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.
Harry Dowd scored
Neil Young's FA Cup Winning Goal
 
Posts: 11359
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:01 pm
Location: Derry/Londonderry/Doire/Maiden City - Originally from Hyde Cheshire
Supporter of: Manchester City
My favourite player is: David Silva

Re: View from the Rags

Postby CTID Hants » Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:58 pm

Cheers CM

Firstly thank you for having to go anywhere rat infested site you have gone above and beyond your duties required.

That said I was fully expecting to be reading the usual bile

I can only assume they are all attempting reverse physcology.

But despite them becoming less relevant as each year goes by, I will always get nervous playing these shit shows in the Derby.
Born A Blue

Image
User avatar
CTID Hants
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Kaptain Kompany's Komposure
 
Posts: 14757
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire

Re: View from the Rags

Postby brite blu sky » Sat Mar 05, 2022 7:15 pm

CTID Hants wrote:Cheers CM

Firstly thank you for having to go anywhere rat infested site you have gone above and beyond your duties required.

That said I was fully expecting to be reading the usual bile

I can only assume they are all attempting reverse physcology.

But despite them becoming less relevant as each year goes by, I will always get nervous playing these shit shows in the Derby.


I got the sense that after their last delutional hurrah under ole they have pretty much accepted who they now are. poorly run club, mismatched overblown players and nobody manager.

I prefered the delutional myself it was funnier
User avatar
brite blu sky
Dickov's Injury Time Equaliser
 
Posts: 4995
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:23 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: View from the Rags

Postby Dimples » Sat Mar 05, 2022 8:22 pm

Realistic comments from Rag fans, who would have thought?
I am still worried about this game tbh.
User avatar
Dimples
Kinky's Mazy Dribbles
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:05 am
Supporter of: Manchester city
My favourite player is: Sterling

Re: View from the Rags

Postby johnny crossan » Sat Mar 05, 2022 9:22 pm

As Slimy & Ratboy will remind us at 30 second intervals until we score our recent home record against the scum is not encouraging.
Image
User avatar
johnny crossan
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Bert Trautmann's Neck
 
Posts: 12222
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:25 am
Location: The Barcelona of The North
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: Merlin

Re: View from the Rags

Postby brite blu sky » Sun Mar 06, 2022 12:36 pm

Just had a look in the caf

wall to wall defeatism, totally.
Also as one noted only 8 pages of comments, where normally would 20 or 30 by now.

Saying Varane is out with hamstring also.
User avatar
brite blu sky
Dickov's Injury Time Equaliser
 
Posts: 4995
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:23 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: View from the Rags

Postby john68 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 11:59 am

brite blu sky wrote:Just had a look in the caf

wall to wall defeatism, totally.
Also as one noted only 8 pages of comments, where normally would 20 or 30 by now.

Saying Varane is out with hamstring also.


In fairness to the rags on their caff BBS, they weren't wrong with their defeatism were they!!!!!
God Bless their little broken hearts
I KNOW THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU THINK I WROTE, BUT I AM NOT SURE YOU REALISE THAT WHAT YOU READ IS NOT WHAT I MEANT
User avatar
john68
Kaptain Kompany's Komposure
 
Posts: 14630
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:47 pm
Location: Sittin' on the dock of the bay...wastin' time.
Supporter of: ST MARKS (W GORTON)
My favourite player is: BERT TRAUTMANN

Re: View from the Rags

Postby stupot » Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:08 pm

john68 wrote:
brite blu sky wrote:Just had a look in the caf

wall to wall defeatism, totally.
Also as one noted only 8 pages of comments, where normally would 20 or 30 by now.

Saying Varane is out with hamstring also.


In fairness to the rags on their caff BBS, they weren't wrong with their defeatism were they!!!!!
God Bless their little broken hearts

They must have had the same blue tinted specs as one or two of us on here before the game :lol:
stupot
Kinky's Mazy Dribbles
 
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:23 pm
Supporter of: Manchester City
My favourite player is: David Silva

Re: View from the Rags

Postby johnny crossan » Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:43 pm

Here's another sad rag lament
The painful lessons Manchester United can learn from City
Image
Daniel Taylor Mar 6, 2022 173

Take a walk around Old Trafford on a match day. Head to the Bishop Blaize pub, the Tollgate or the old Stretford Ex-Servicemen’s Club, with its No Prawn Sandwiches sign on the wall, and tell the fans in these establishments that Manchester United — the mighty Manchester United — need to “aspire” to be more like Manchester City. What do you think the reaction would be?

David Moyes used that word after one Manchester derby and it was held against him by many supporters as the hard evidence he did not understand there was a certain way in which a Manchester United manager ought to speak.

In his time at Everton, Moyes described one game against City as football’s equivalent of “going into a gunfight armed with a knife”. But that, with respect, was Everton. The expectations are different at Old Trafford, where all those years of greedily accumulating trophies with Sir Alex Ferguson, season after season, bred a mentality probably best summed up by the “Not Arrogant, Just Better” banner that used to be seen at games.

United’s supporters were accustomed to happier times. They have found it galling to see City having all the fun, particularly when they remember the gulf that existed between the two clubs before September 1, 2008, the date the Abu Dhabi United Group took control on the other side of Mancunian Way.

But football moves quickly. The modern-day City are, once again, enjoying the view from the top of the Premier League. Pep Guardiola is their manager. The last decade, in particular, has seen a full, peacock-like spreading of City’s feathers. They have finished, on average, 20.75 points clear of United in every season since Ferguson’s retirement. City are the champions of England.

Remember those days when Ferguson liked to call City’s stadium “the Temple of Doom” and completely ignored them when he went through the list of clubs — Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Leeds — he considered to be United’s biggest rivals?

This season, United are already 19 points back. They have not managed an authentic title challenge since winning the league in 2013. They have spent over £1 billion in that time. And, painful as it might be, maybe it is time for everyone connected with the club — the fans, the staff, the people in the boardroom and, perhaps more than anyone, the Glazer family — to accept that, yes, United should aspire to be more like City.

Recruitment
The problem in any discussion about City is that the default setting for many is to argue that it is virtually impossible to compete against the immense wealth of Abu Dhabi.

To a point, that is a perfectly reasonable argument. Of course City’s success derives largely from their owners’ resources. Of course it would not have been possible without the money-no-object mentality a decade ago that led to Ferguson complaining about their “kamikaze” spending.

In this case, however, it doesn’t absolutely hold up given that United, throughout Ed Woodward’s time in office, spent some of the most mindboggling sums imaginable and still managed to end up outside the top four as many times as they finished in it.

It was a heck of a feat, if you think about it properly, to have splurged over £1 billion without any tangible reward at the end of it. But Woodward has gone now and that, for United, is not necessarily a bad thing. The more relevant question is whether Richard Arnold, the new chief executive, is an upgrade. Arnold was previously the managing director and United, put bluntly, are stuffed if he is as accident-prone as his predecessor when it comes to the business of buying footballers.

Image
Schweinsteiger was past his best when he arrived at United (Photo: Getty Images)
It is, after all, fundamental to a team’s success. Recruitment is key. Every successful club gets this part of the business right and, as City have shown, it is not just a case of trying to blow everyone out of the water in every transfer window. It is not true that City’s sole tactic is to outbid everybody else. It is not the case that they automatically offer the biggest salaries or pay the agents the most extravagant fees. That is usually what United do.

The reality is that City have put in place a much more sophisticated system that requires wider analysis of the City Football Group (CFG) as a whole and the 11 clubs under its umbrella.

City’s talent-spotters are not just scouting for Guardiola these days but also for New York City, Girona, Yokohama Marinos and all the rest, from Manchester to Montevideo, Melbourne to Mumbai. It is a global operation that means City can develop players throughout their own network. Not all will be good enough to play for Guardiola in the Premier League. But some will, and the ones who come up just short all have their value. Every year, City are banking significant sums from player sales that have been generated this way. City, and CFG, believe they have the most sophisticated database of scouting reports in existence.

All this, of course, is not something that United can just try to replicate given they are a one-club operation looking for talent in the more old-fashioned sense. It is a reminder, however, that the elite clubs should always be looking for new, innovative ideas to get ahead of their rivals.

United have to be cleverer. They have to be better when it comes to the data and analytic work that has helped City and Liverpool leave everyone else behind. Arnold, in particular, has to do better than Woodward because — here’s the thing — some of United’s transfer-window experiences have been more in keeping with the various tragicomedies otherwise known in Manchester as the “Typical City” years.

The time, for example, United signed Bastian Schweinsteiger without being savvy enough to realise that Bayern Munich, of all clubs, would never sell one of their own unless that player was past it. And, boy, Schweinsteiger was past it.

Or the time Marcos Rojo arrived from Sporting Lisbon for £16 million in and nobody at Old Trafford had the slightest idea he was being investigated for an alleged bottle attack on two men in Argentina and had the possibility of a criminal trial ahead of him. United were completely in the dark until after they had announced his five-year contract and a member of staff typed his name into Google to find out more about the new signing.

It is the kind of story that, in another era, would have happened on the blue half of Manchester (to United’s relief, Rojo settled out of court and the case was dropped). Not any more, though. City rarely get it wrong with their recruitment these days whereas, across town, United would dearly wish they could say the same.

Academy
Jose Mourinho did not always give the impression, in his two years as United’s manager, that he was absolutely devoted to the club’s academy. It did trouble him, though, that there was a pattern of United players enrolling their sons in City’s junior system — and he wanted to find out why.

Mourinho sought an explanation from Lee Grant, United’s back-up goalkeeper, whose son, True, was part of City’s academy.

It was a fair question, Grant acknowledged, but the simple explanation was that City had a brilliant reputation for nurturing young talent and, as a father, that was always going to matter the most. Mourinho didn’t necessarily like what he had heard but he did respect it — and it was probably what he expected to hear anyway.

Nor is this anything new. Robin van Persie, Phil Neville and Andy Cole all had their sons in City’s academy. Darren Fletcher, now United’s technical director, is the father of twins, Jack and Tyler, who play in City’s under-15s. “Nothing compares to the set-up City have over there,” says Viv Anderson, another former United player, whose son, Charlie, wore blue rather than red during the years City started investing heavily in talent, as well as its education and coaching programme, to gain the upper hand.

This is not to say United’s conveyor belt of young talent has stopped rolling. Anthony Elanga is evidence of that. Mason Greenwood was a superstar in the making until his arrest, and subsequent absence, and in this coming week United are hoping to secure a place in the FA Youth Cup final for the first time since 2011.

Their semi-final against Wolverhampton Wanderers is booked in for Wednesday and, if nothing else, that is a sign of progress six years since Woodward announced a “root and branch review” to explore what had gone wrong inside the club’s academy, and what needed to be done about it.

United, lest it be forgotten, have won the FA Youth Cup a record 10 times, seven more than City. Since 1932, more than 200 youth products have broken through at Old Trafford, amassing more than 18,000 senior appearances and 2,500 international caps, as well as World Cups, European Cups, the Ballon d’Or and Footballer of the Year honours, OBEs, knighthoods, league championships and all sorts of other trophies.

Yet Woodward’s 2016 review coincided with a 12-match losing run for United’s under-18s. One defeat, 5-1 to Chelsea, was the heaviest home defeat in their entire history. The club were guilty, undeniably, of having taken their eye off the ball. Just consider another statistic from the time: of 126 players called up by England for a round of games at under-16 to under-21 level, Chelsea provided 17 of them, and City 12, with United contributing two.

The numbers are much more even now. United’s youth team were relegated from their league in 2019, the first time that has ever happened, but returned the following year and like to think they are back on track. It is no longer the concern that it was six years ago.

Still, though, there is plenty of evidence that City have got ahead when it comes to their production line and the emergence of what Gary Neville has described as various David Silva clones.

City have reached five of the past seven FA Youth Cup finals. Their under-23s are eight points clear in a league they romped last season. Their under-18s have a five-point cushion at the top of their league and, on Saturday, they beat United’s under-18s 5-1.

Last season, the club had 45 players on their books who won international caps last season at under-15 to under-20 level. Thirty-one of those played for England but it is probably the next statistic that will hurt United the most. Almost two-thirds of City’s academy players come from Greater Manchester.

Hiring the right people
One question, above all, feels relevant when it comes to the changing of the football landscape in Manchester. Why did Woodward spend so many years talking about appointing a director of football without actually going through with it?

At City, it was Brian Marwood whose work behind the scenes was so influential to what can be seen now. Marwood, City’s director of football, was a supreme planner who put together the bricks to create what he called “one house of football” for the senior team, the women’s team and all the various age levels. Don’t underestimate his part in City’s current superiority.

Woodward, in contrast, delayed and delayed before the various restructuring at Old Trafford over the last year that led to John Murtough being given the title of football director, with Fletcher as technical director and Ralf Rangnick possibly taking up a consultancy role once he finishes as interim first-team manager. Was it because, as many people suspect, Woodward loved going after the superstars himself? Woodward’s strength was in other areas of the business than the transfer market; it just took him far too long to realise this.

All of which has left United with a bit of a jumble compared to the relatively smooth process at City — described inside the Etihad stadium as a “journey of planning” — that has led them to 16 trophies in 13 years.
Image

The presence of Soriano (left) and Begiristain (right) has been vital to City (Photo: Matt McNulty – Manchester City/Manchester City FC via Getty Images)
At City, the chief executive, Ferran Soriano, previously held the same role for Barcelona. Txiki Begiristain, who took over from Marwood as director of football, was with Soriano at the Nou Camp. Together, they formed a powerful alliance as Guardiola assembled possibly the most beautifully constructed Barca side there has ever been.

Anyone who has read Soriano’s 2012 book, Goal — The Ball Doesn’t Go In By Chance, will know this is the guy whose vision, over a decade ago, was for the multi-club model that City now do better than anyone.

One chapter is titled “Innovation.” Others detail his financial strategies, his negotiation techniques, his knowledge of business and, laid out over more than 200 pages, his philosophy for how a football club should be run. Soriano quotes professors, scientists, inventors and various leaders of industry. It is difficult to think of any other CEO in the Premier League who could deliver such a forensic study. He is, in the words of one colleague, a “genius”.

Guardiola speaks even more effusively about Begiristain, the former Barca player who bases his football ideology on everything he learned from Johan Cruyff. But it is not just a Soriano-Begiristain thing. And it is not just Pep. This is what City do: throughout the entire operation, they have brought in highly-skilled, elite performers.

And United? Where is the genius? Who is the visionary who will lead this club to a better place? Who empowers the staff in the way that, say, chairman Khaldoon Al Mubarak does for City?

The answer, unfortunately for United, is that the people at the top of the club have simply not been on the same level as those at City. It is one of the biggest failings of the Glazer family, as United’s owners. And this, perhaps, should be one of the more alarming issues for the millions of United fans who are watching what has turned into a long game of catch-up.

We can all debate what United must strive to do better, how they must learn from their mistakes and adopt new practices, but it is never going to work unless the people in the most important positions have the vision, the talent, the energy and the necessary leadership qualities. And City have been better on that front for longer than United would probably wish to remember.

Getting the right manager
Here’s another key question: why have City been so much better when it comes to changing their manager, from Mark Hughes to Roberto Mancini, Manuel Pellegrini and Guardiola, and managing to keep the club on an upward trajectory?

Too often with United, it has been a case of trying one thing, then going for another style, then changing again and hoping it will work out. Moyes was given a six-year contract and lasted ten months. Louis van Gaal seldom lived up to the “genius” tag that Woodward gave him (Woodward was not convinced Guardiola would suit the Premier League). Mourinho seemed embittered and past his peak years when he replaced Van Gaal and, though United desperately wanted it to work for Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, there were too many occasions when it felt like a five-star club had employed a three-star coach.

“What United need most is a brilliant manager,” Gary Neville, who speaks a lot of sense on these subjects, said recently. “The one thing that has been proven is that if you have a great manager — Jurgen Klopp, Pep, even Thomas Tuchel at Chelsea — they sort the whole club out. You might be in disarray but the manager comes in, gets control, knows exactly what he wants.”

Rangnick made a similar point at his news conference on Friday. “City and Liverpool have continuity and consistency for the past five or six years. They have a very clear identity of how they want to play. This is the secret behind their success, they know exactly how they want to play, a corporate identity. This is what all the top clubs have in common. This is something that needs to be developed at Manchester United.”

The bad news is that it is not easy to find someone of this calibre. One senior figure at Old Trafford confided recently that, whoever comes next, it still feels far-fetched to imagine United winning the league for as long as Guardiola and Klopp are around.

Rangnick, too, sounds like he knows it is going to be a long haul. “They’re the best two coaches on the planet,” he said. “It’s pretty easy in football. You need to have the best possible people, a clear idea of football, stick to that idea and make decisions with that in mind.”

All the other important things
Head along John Gilbert Way, then over the bridge towards Old Trafford, and you get some kind of idea about the amount of land that United own at the back of the stadium and that, for reasons never fully explained, is never put to better use.

A more progressive club might have copied what City have done with their 7,000-capacity academy stadium, or Barcelona previously with the Mini Estadi, to have a place where their reserves, youth and women’s teams can base themselves. A big project, of course. Expensive, too. And, realistically, we probably know enough about the Glazers to realise the chances of this happening are somewhere between minimal and non-existent.

Is it unreasonable, though, to think United’s long-distance owners might sanction whatever it would cost to extend the Sir Bobby Charlton stand? This is the oldest stand at Old Trafford and is probably best known on social media these days for its notoriously leaky roof. Architects have apparently been brought in to explore the possibilities (it is no longer thought to be such a problem that there is a railway line at the back of the stand) and we all know, if it was the other way round, City would have big plans. United should, too, because Old Trafford is looking tired. It needs modernising.

It is certainly revealing that United have not carried any major work on their stadium since 2005, while City have been expanding the Etihad, opening a village-sized training complex, creating a plaza outside the ground and winning awards for providing the best match-day experience.

Last night, City’s women beat Chelsea in the final of the FA WSL Cup. They share City’s academy stadium, train at the same complex as Guardiola’s team and have the most sophisticated facilities in the sport. OK, they would probably have liked to have won the WSL more than once, as six-time runners-up in the last seven years, but seven trophies since 2014 is not too shabby.

United’s women’s team have done pretty well, therefore, to be third in the WSL table, two places above City. But why did it take until 2018 for United to join the party by launching a women’s team? Why have United, as a whole, become a club who follow others rather than lead from the front?

These are the sort of questions that probably explain why Woodward never went through with his promise to hold regular “town hall meetings” in which he intended to meet supporters face to face. It never happened, almost certainly because it would have turned into an interrogation.

Have the club got lazy? Is it too easy to trot out the excuse that the decline is all because Ferguson is no longer around? Have the club been guilty, under the ownership of the Glazers, of blurring their priorities?


At United’s training ground on Friday, it was Rangnick’s turn to talk about the gulf with City and face questions from journalists about how long, realistically, it might be before this changes. Solskjaer had been in that position a few times and, before him, Mourinho, Van Gaal and Moyes. But perhaps these questions would be better put to Joel, Bryan, Avi and all the other members of United’s ruling family.

The little things, too, that might not matter hugely but all contribute to the sense that the club needs a shake-up. Why does United’s social media operation seem so inferior to City’s? Why is United’s website so impenetrable? Their digital marketing, their branding, their understanding of the modern football fan — all these things, City seem to do so much better.

To clarify, we all know about United’s ability to pull in lucrative sponsorship deals and global tie-ups. This, perhaps, is why the Glazers are not more proactive. The money keeps rolling in. The rich get richer. This will always be the case because United are such a giant of a club, with the kind of global fanbase and internet reach that City can only dream of.

To go back to the original point, however, who can really say United should not “aspire” to be more like the club that Ferguson depicted as “noisy neighbours” and is now, quietly, without making too much fuss, going about the business of trying to win their fourth league title in five years?

The problem for Moyes when he used that word was this: United were champions at the time. They aren’t now, though, and it will be a long time before they are again unless they acknowledge exactly what it is their opponents this weekend do so much better.
Image
User avatar
johnny crossan
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Bert Trautmann's Neck
 
Posts: 12222
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:25 am
Location: The Barcelona of The North
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: Merlin

Re: View from the Rags

Postby brite blu sky » Mon Mar 07, 2022 2:36 pm

Almost any single paragraph in that explains all you need to know - if you're a rag.

It is extremely doubtful that many of them have the humility to actually read it though.
User avatar
brite blu sky
Dickov's Injury Time Equaliser
 
Posts: 4995
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:23 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: View from the Rags

Postby john@staustell » Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:53 pm

brite blu sky wrote:Almost any single paragraph in that explains all you need to know - if you're a rag.

It is extremely doubtful that many of them have the humility to actually read it though.


Or the time, to be fair
“I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly.”
User avatar
john@staustell
Roberto Mancini's Scarf
 
Posts: 20272
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:35 am
Location: St Austell
Supporter of: City

Re: View from the Rags

Postby john68 » Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:07 pm

The big problem for the rags, Dippers and Tarquins is that they have been spoonfed shite and hype by the media for so long that they have absorbed it totally.

It's the belief that they have to be successful because they are who they are. They have some form of divine right to win things because of their name or because of what they may have achieved in the past.

When Luton scored at Maine Rd to send us down, it was a huge shock for City but we learned to deal with it, as do most relegated clubs.
Most rags have only ever known the Taggrt years and they have no idea of how to handle their recent demise. Many are just in denial.

Their successes, on the back of their G14 coercion of UeFA and the media support for their own profit has somehow become a thing in their heads that it is forever. It has bred a horrible arrogance.

The UNITED WAY as a success was only ever a temporary thing but they never understood that.
I KNOW THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU THINK I WROTE, BUT I AM NOT SURE YOU REALISE THAT WHAT YOU READ IS NOT WHAT I MEANT
User avatar
john68
Kaptain Kompany's Komposure
 
Posts: 14630
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:47 pm
Location: Sittin' on the dock of the bay...wastin' time.
Supporter of: ST MARKS (W GORTON)
My favourite player is: BERT TRAUTMANN

Re: View from the Rags

Postby johnny crossan » Tue Mar 08, 2022 2:06 pm

Ode To A Louse - R Burns:"To see ourselves as others see us," :lol: :lol:
Analysing United’s defensive failings: ultra-cautious at corners, poor positioning, timid passing
Image

By Stuart James Mar 7, 2022 69
Oh to be a fly on the wall in Manchester United’s post-match analysis session this week — that’s if Ralf Rangnick is brave enough to put his players through the ordeal of watching the Manchester City game back.

Going over that footage makes for uncomfortable viewing as a neutral, never mind as a Manchester United player, and highlights an alarming number of collective and individual failings. In some cases over and over again.

There has been a lot of talk — with plenty of justification — about a lack of hunger, desire and pride among the United players in their 4-1 defeat at City. Arguably every bit as damning, though, was United’s inability to apply the most basic defensive principles.

With a critical eye, we went back over the four goals that United conceded on Sunday, breaking them down in detail, including trying to understand why, and how, City thought they could score a goal via a floated corner and a first-time shot inside the area, even though their opponents had every player inside that 18-yard box.

If the art of defending is your thing, look away now.

Goal 1: Manchester City 1-0 Manchester United, De Bruyne (5 min)
Joao Cancelo takes the throw-in midway inside his own half. The next time United touched the ball, David de Gea was retrieving it from the back of their net, 13 City passes, one Kevin De Bruyne shot, and 59 seconds later.

Ralf Rangnick spoke before the game about his United team needing to be compact and not allowing City to play through them, but their shape seems too narrow here, almost as if the players have got their distances wrong. Anthony Elanga is tucked in so far on the right that Guardiola’s team can easily play around their opponents to “get out”.

Aymeric Laporte feeds Cancelo wide on the left and the full-back is able to take a touch before passing forward to Bernardo Silva, who has run off the back of Scott McTominay. It seems remarkable that such a simple passage of play can leave United in a four-v-four situation.
Image


United’s midfield press (if you can call it a press), has been beaten by a pass from a left-sided centre-back, stationed 10 yards inside his own half, to the left-back on the halfway line, followed by a 10-yard diagonal ball to a breaking midfielder.

City slow things down afterwards, rather than breaking at speed, allowing United’s midfield to get back into position. Bernardo Silva exchanges passes with Jack Grealish on the left, and three United players — McTominay, Aaron Wan-Bissaka and Victor Lindelof — are all drawn to the Portuguese.

Image

In theory, it should be impossible for Bernardo to find the room to cross. In practice, it is straightforward because United have not put any City player under pressure ever since Cancelo threw the ball back into play — and nothing changes here.

Alex Telles, the United left-back, points to De Bruyne, just before Bernardo prepares to cross. He has been aware of the Belgian throughout the move and has got himself back into a good area of the pitch to defend; the problem is his body position. Rather than having his shoulders open and being able to see both the ball and De Bruyne, Telles is facing his own goal. He needs to turn 180 degrees.

Image

He eventually turns 90 degrees, which means that he would still have no chance if the ball was crossed to the back post, where Riyad Mahrez is lurking; Telles can’t see the City winger.

To compound things, Telles takes two steps to his right, away from De Bruyne, and that means he is, in football parlance, “on his heels” when Bernardo cuts the ball back. Telles realises his mistake as the ball travels towards De Bruyne. He panics and makes a desperate lunge in an attempt to make up the lost ground and block.
Image
Image


It’s too late though. De Bruyne is there first and fires a left-footed shot from nine yards through the legs of Harry Maguire and past De Gea.

Goal 2: Man City 2-1 Manchester United, De Bruyne (28 min)
A comedy of errors from start to finish.

Elanga, level with his own penalty area, plays a one-two with Paul Pogba and tries to pick out Bruno Fernandes, who has made a run in behind. Guardiola’s team had been on the offensive, so much so that nine of their 10 outfield players are ahead of Fernandes. Indeed, if Elanga gets this pass right, United, who had scored a brilliant counter-attacking goal courtesy of Jadon Sancho six minutes earlier, will have a chance to break again.
Image


Equally, if Elanga gets the execution wrong, it is a pass that needs to be overhit rather than underhit because of the area where he will be giving away possession. Unfortunately for Elanga, it is underhit and looks casual; he doesn’t get enough lift on the ball and Cancelo easily cuts it out.

Image

Cancelo’s header finds Grealish, who nods it inside. Wan-Bissaka thinks about competing for the ball with Grealish but takes a step back. Victor Lindelof then attempts to win the ball ahead of Foden, but his challenge lacks conviction — picture Nemanja Vidic in that scenario for a moment — and the City forward gets their first, lifting the ball over his head after initially running off the back of McTominay. Foden is now bearing down on goal and Maguire starts to run across but hesitates for a split second, rather than sprinting to try to make a block.

Image

De Gea repels Foden’s close-range effort and Maguire could turn the ball behind for a corner. Instead, the United captain allows it to run through his legs and turns in the same way that a striker might on the halfway line to try to lose a defender.
Image

Bernardo Silva pounces, his shot is half-blocked by Maguire, it ricochets off Telles and falls to De Bruyne, who sweeps home — all after Fred had earlier let the City captain drift past him in the build-up.

As for Lindelof, he watches the whole episode unfold from the edge of the penalty area, never making any attempt to recover or to pick up De Bruyne. Lindelof bends over, holding his head in his hands. De Gea kicks the ball into the back of the net again in frustration. Maguire picks himself up off the floor (literally), Wan-Bissaka is prone in the six-yard box and Telles is face down too — a picture that says it all.

Image

Goal 3: Manchester City 3-1 Manchester United, Mahrez (68 min)
“Straight off the training ground” Manchester City tweeted on Sunday night. Presumably, straight from their analysis room too. Looking back at United’s defensive corners in their previous games, two things are striking: first, the fact that they bring every player back, even with little more than two minutes on the clock against Watford; and second, the space that they leave free on the edge of the penalty area.

Watford won two corners inside the opening three minutes against United at Old Trafford nine days ago and Telles was the only United player who took up a position in advance of the penalty spot. His role was to stop the cut-back to the Watford player (Ismaila Sarr) lurking on the edge of the box on the same side as the corner taker.

Curiously, United had four players around the near post against Watford. On the third and final Watford corner in the same game, you can clearly see the space that opens up on the edge of the area, where Sarr is completely free for the sort of routine that Mahrez scored from for City.

Image

Watford was not a one-off. This is how United set up against Atletico Madrid in the game before. You can see Angel Correa, hands aloft, calling for the ball after realising that he is totally free.

Image

The question for opponents to consider is whether you are bold enough, and good enough, to try to exploit that space on the edge of the area. City clearly have the technical quality to be able to do that, but De Bruyne and Mahrez also needed others to get their movement patterns right to make everything work.

Interestingly, City waited until corner No 7 against United, midway through the second half, before giving it a go, perhaps reasoning that by that point their opponents were likely to be complacent about what to expect when defending set-pieces.

United’s approach on defensive corners is to mix zonal marking with man-to-marking. As with a lot of clubs now, they set up in an “L” shape in the case of their zonal marking. Typically, that entails stationing three players across the six-yard box (McTominay in line with the near post, Wan-Bissaka in line with the back post, and Maguire in the middle in this instance) and another on the byline at the near post (Lindelof).

Three United players — Jesse Lingard, Telles and Marcus Rashford — are tasked with man-to-man marking or, more likely, blocking City’s powerful headers of the ball. Jadon Sancho is closest to the corner-taker, in case De Bruyne takes it short. Fernandes is about five yards in front of Lindelof and the same distance from Bernardo. That leaves Fred, who is about 14 yards out, the most advanced United player and dealing with Cancelo on the edge of the area and in line with the near post. Has anyone even noticed Mahrez, who is about 25 yards out and free?

Image

The fact that John Stones and Laporte enter the penalty area late is all part of the routine that City set up. De Bruyne raises an arm and then gestures again, almost as if he is waiting for something to happen — Stones then trots into the six-yard box belatedly, taking Telles with him. The middle of the penalty area is now no longer so crowded. As De Bruyne prepares to take his kick, Laporte makes a run towards the six-yard box and Rashford follows.

Image

Rodri is now the only City player left in the centre of the penalty area. His job is to stand his ground and prevent his marker, in this case Lingard, from getting closer to Mahrez.

Image
Image

Of course, all of this would be irrelevant without the pinpoint accuracy of De Bruyne, who picks out Mahrez beautifully. That said, the ball from De Bruyne is clipped rather than pinged, more of an 8-iron than a driver, and that means that United’s players should have time to get across and, at the very least, put Mahrez under some sort of pressure when they see what is unfolding. Damningly, nobody manages to do that.

To put it another way, United have allowed a player to have a free shot from inside their 18-yard box, from a flighted corner, despite all 11 of them being in the penalty area. Eight of them are in a line.

Image

That Mahrez’s shot takes a deflection off Maguire on the way into the net is in keeping with the United captain’s day.

Although it is a brilliantly-executed routine, it raises questions about United’s setup defensively. Do they need to bring every player back on defensive corners? Why do they neglect the edge of the penalty area? Do they really need so many players marking space? And, in the case of Mahrez’s goal, why didn’t the players — Maguire and Wan-Bissaka were close enough to hold hands at the far post at one stage — take responsibility, identify the danger quicker, and urge a player to push out and put the City winger under genuine pressure?

Goal 4: Manchester City 4-1 Manchester United, Mahrez (90+1 min)
By now it is exhibition stuff from City and United cannot wait for the sound of the final whistle. Ilkay Gundogan should make it 4-1 in the 89th minute, when United were caught ball-watching for the umpteenth time.

It is seven-v-five in the United penalty area in the favour of the defending team as Grealish breaks forward on the left but a numerical advantage is irrelevant when players are so preoccupied with the ball rather than picking up opponents. Maguire, body closed, has no idea that Gundogan is standing behind him when Grealish cuts the ball back. Luckily for him, Gundogan screws his shot wide.

Image

City’s fourth goal actually starts with United winning a throw midway inside the City half. United, via Rashford, Lingard, Wan-Bissaka and Lindelof, go all the way back to De Gea. The United goalkeeper passes infield to McTominay, who goes backwards to Lindelof, who returns the ball to De Gea. In short, United’s players want De Gea to solve the problem — how to play forward — for them.

Image
Image

Three City players are now pressing, led by Foden and Bernardo (imagine if United had closed down Mahrez with this sort of intensity on the third goal), and De Gea, in some discomfort, is unable to get any distance on his clearance. From a United point of view, this whole passage of play feels uncomfortable to watch. United players seem to be passing responsibility every time they pass the ball. They made five passes and each one was backwards.

After City win possession in the middle of the United half, Gundogan skips past McTominay as if he is not there and threads a ball between Maguire and Lindelof for Mahrez’s diagonal run in behind.

Image

Telles is caught in two minds, whether to stay with his runner or to step up and play offside. The left-back plumps for the latter but leaves it far too late. He is a full two yards behind Maguire and Lindelof.
Image

As Telles turns and belatedly raises his right arm, he almost runs into Maguire. Mahrez, meanwhile, is through on goal and thumps a left-footed shot that De Gea is unable to keep out.

Although initially ruled out for offside, VAR intervened after replays showed that Telles had played Mahrez onside with his right boot.

For United, their misery was complete.

What did you think of this story?
Last edited by johnny crossan on Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
johnny crossan
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Bert Trautmann's Neck
 
Posts: 12222
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:25 am
Location: The Barcelona of The North
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: Merlin

Re: View from the Rags

Postby Dimples » Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:11 pm

Good enough to ensure I watch the game again, just to be sure I agree with the analysis. I never tire of watching the Rags in pain, especially when inflicted by us :)
User avatar
Dimples
Kinky's Mazy Dribbles
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:05 am
Supporter of: Manchester city
My favourite player is: Sterling

Re: View from the Rags

Postby john68 » Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:20 pm

Aaaaaaand we all lived happily ever after....AGAIN

For the rag's defenders the word 'marking' is just something a dog with a hair lip does.

Looooong may it continue.
I KNOW THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU THINK I WROTE, BUT I AM NOT SURE YOU REALISE THAT WHAT YOU READ IS NOT WHAT I MEANT
User avatar
john68
Kaptain Kompany's Komposure
 
Posts: 14630
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:47 pm
Location: Sittin' on the dock of the bay...wastin' time.
Supporter of: ST MARKS (W GORTON)
My favourite player is: BERT TRAUTMANN

Re: View from the Rags

Postby zuricity » Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:20 pm

Ah that's why we won ! the Rags brought their Subbuteo team
"Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs."
zuricity
Allison's Big Fat Cigar
 
Posts: 18391
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:54 pm
Location: Zuerich,ch

Re: View from the Rags

Postby patrickblue » Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:38 pm

Dimples wrote: I never tire of watching the Rags in pain, especially when inflicted by us :)


Me too, it's very soothing.
[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7qDYcso3azifQVyg/html5[/img]
User avatar
patrickblue
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Shaun Goater's 103 Goals
 
Posts: 7440
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: Newbury Berks
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: The one and only Goat


Return to The Maine Football forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: rosbif cuisson 'bleu', Scatman and 143 guests