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I'm sorry but it is impossible Angelino and Maffeo are more of a liability than the far past it Zabba and shithouse cunt Kolarov. Why the hell did we send them out on loan? Was excited to see Pep give some youngsters the chance, but so far he's done less than Pellers in that department

Also with a little forward thinking we, knew Zabs time was running short and could have started blooding a couple of right backs to replace him long term. He's been shit for 2 seasons at least, could have given 2-3 youthies a good chance.

I disagree with Zabaleta being past it. However if you want your fullbacks to charge forward as both our previous two managers wanted you need to have rock solid central defenders who can cover. When Vinny was behind Zabaleta they both were ace. Can't expect that from Stones yet and ahouldn't ever expect that from Otamendi.

Kolarov is one of the great mysteries to me. I didn't like him from day one as you could instantly see he can NOT defend. How on earth has he survived SIX years with the club. Mancini bought Clichy the following summer clearly admitting his mistake with Kolarov yet somehow he is still here. I don't get it.

Re: Angelino and Maffeo, they are WAY too young to be thrown into defensive set up we have right now. If we had solid defence I could've seen them being given ten games or so this year being slowly introduced. Loan is absolutely best thing for them right now. They need competitive games against grown men regularily now. And if they are as good as you thinkmthey will absolutely dominate Spanish second division.

I would really like a full back that actually defends and tries to cut out a cross. Far too often our defenders stand off and allow the cross to come in, last night Zaba stands off gives time and space to pick the cross and we lose match. Regardless of how poor Kolarov is on the challenge for header stop the ball coming in and we don't concede. Put in a challenge least if a winger beats you and puts ball in fair enough but standing off annoys the hell out of me. There is a real shortage of decent full backs around, how much would a Lee Dixon be worth in today's market

Zaba has constantly been standing off for about 2 years now, cos he's too slow. It's painful to watch his decline.

In short...Yes.

Angelino is nowhere near good enough to get into this team and may never play for us again.

Maffeo could, one day. Was good against Utd in the League Cup match, but was fairly invisible/poor in the dead rubber against Celtic and subbed off fairly early.

We just sent them on loan to the 2nd division of Spain.

They will help fight for promotion to La Liga vs. helping us fight for the title in the Prem.

Still think we should have tried to bring Trippier back he was leaving Burnley, home grown club trained and would have been a valuable back up player

I don't think any of our fullbacks actually try to stop crosses coming in to the box. A constant source of irritation for me.

PrezIke wrote:In short...Yes.

Angelino is nowhere near good enough to get into this team and may never play for us again.

Maffeo could, one day. Was good against Utd in the League Cup match, but was fairly invisible/poor in the dead rubber against Celtic and subbed off fairly early.

We just sent them on loan to the 2nd division of Spain.

They will help fight for promotion to La Liga vs. helping us fight for the title in the Prem.

The reality is, there is no way of knowing how good these youngsters are until they have a run in the side.

As others have mentioned, they cannot possibly be any worse than how our current defenders are performing.

Look at other clubs, over the years some very average have performed regularly for top clubs - Jonny Evans, Mikael Silvestre etc. But if you have a settled defence and a system in place then you can build a strong defence.

There is no guarantee Maffeo, Angelino, Tosin etc. will be a success for us in the Premier League. But we have to give them a shot, especially considering all of our defenders (Sagna aside) are pretty shite.

Dub City wrote:Still think we should have tried to bring Trippier back he was leaving Burnley, home grown club trained and would have been a valuable back up player

I remember going to watch Man City v Swansea in the FA Youth Cup at the Liberty and Trippier was playing in midfield then I think and he was head and shoulders above any other player on the pitch...I think City won three nil. Even my Swans friend agreed that he was a cut above !
How do we let players like that slip through our fingers ?

aaron bond wrote:

PrezIke wrote:In short...Yes.

Angelino is nowhere near good enough to get into this team and may never play for us again.

Maffeo could, one day. Was good against Utd in the League Cup match, but was fairly invisible/poor in the dead rubber against Celtic and subbed off fairly early.

We just sent them on loan to the 2nd division of Spain.

They will help fight for promotion to La Liga vs. helping us fight for the title in the Prem.

The reality is, there is no way of knowing how good these youngsters are until they have a run in the side.

As others have mentioned, they cannot possibly be any worse than how our current defenders are performing.

Look at other clubs, over the years some very average have performed regularly for top clubs - Jonny Evans, Mikael Silvestre etc. But if you have a settled defence and a system in place then you can build a strong defence.

There is no guarantee Maffeo, Angelino, Tosin etc. will be a success for us in the Premier League. But we have to give them a shot, especially considering all of our defenders (Sagna aside) are pretty shite.

If Tosin or Garcia or another of the young talent aren't playing against Burnley at home TWO DAYS after the 'first team' has 'slogged its guts out' at Candlefield, I also will be calling for Mr So-so's head.

Championship, Spanish 2nd division or u23s, no one will EVER know the quality of the youths until they get a decent chance at a top game. Remember Chelsea in the FA Cup last season and who from that game is still getting game time in the first team squad...

Just a thought. If we had young versions of either of the chuckle brothers or Beckham or Scholes, would they even get a run in our side at the moment let alone turn into full Internationals?

How do we know we haven't got future Internationals in our midst if we don't try them? Dele Ali is not yet 21 yet is now a fixture in the spuds first eleven and a full England International to boot. Is he any better than say Garcia?

aaron bond wrote:

PrezIke wrote:In short...Yes.

Angelino is nowhere near good enough to get into this team and may never play for us again.

Maffeo could, one day. Was good against Utd in the League Cup match, but was fairly invisible/poor in the dead rubber against Celtic and subbed off fairly early.

We just sent them on loan to the 2nd division of Spain.

They will help fight for promotion to La Liga vs. helping us fight for the title in the Prem.

The reality is, there is no way of knowing how good these youngsters are until they have a run in the side.

As others have mentioned, they cannot possibly be any worse than how our current defenders are performing.

Look at other clubs, over the years some very average have performed regularly for top clubs - Jonny Evans, Mikael Silvestre etc. But if you have a settled defence and a system in place then you can build a strong defence.

There is no guarantee Maffeo, Angelino, Tosin etc. will be a success for us in the Premier League. But we have to give them a shot, especially considering all of our defenders (Sagna aside) are pretty shite.

"They cannot possibly be worse."

You sure about that? Go watch Swansea's defending and tell me if you think we cannot do worse. That's in our own league.

We lost by and conceded one goal. So, just throw in a bunch of unproven defenders at this level (who have never even started a game in the Prem or more than 1 or 2 at a comparable level where they have very mixed results) over players who play regularly in a top 4 PL and CL side, and have won titles (even if old, slow, flawed, on the decline) and the logical conclusion is we cannot do worse?

Please explain.

Maybe we should ask our director of football, or what ever his fancy fucking name is why we haven’t signed a full back since 2011.And are relying on 3 30 something’s in our high pressing game.

And I agree, the kids at least will be able to track back without blowing out their arses.

zabbadabbado wrote:Maybe we should ask our director of football, or what ever his fancy fucking name is why we haven’t signed a full back since 2011.And are relying on 3 30 something’s in our high pressing game.

And I agree, the kids at least will be able to track back without blowing out their arses.

We tried to sign Laporte to address this and later Bonucci. We missed out because of a wild last minute change of heart by one, and then the other decided he didn't want to join for whatever reason.

We also decided to use much our transfer kitty on other players who were available and we did not want to miss on (Stones, Sane, Jesus). That's £110m right there. And we also signed Gundogan and a bunch of youth talent.

Pep does not necessarily need "fullbacks." He needs defenders (ideally one who is a leader) who can do enough of what Pep wants/needs with the ball, and have other attributes necessary (mentally tough, intelligent). Conte has 3 at the back mixed with fullbacks and centre halves. We could see that if we had the right players to do the job.

There are really not that many great fullbacks out there. We need one who can play on on the left in some way with some pace.

We have been interested in Alex Sandro for a while supposedly. Another Juve player, but hard to get. Alaba would also be crazy expensive, but his value is down a bit.

Rose? Not so sure that's where we want to go.

The price for top defenders is beyond steep right now, especially one who can play well on the left and meets our requirements skill wise.

PrezIke wrote:

aaron bond wrote:

PrezIke wrote:In short...Yes.

Angelino is nowhere near good enough to get into this team and may never play for us again.

Maffeo could, one day. Was good against Utd in the League Cup match, but was fairly invisible/poor in the dead rubber against Celtic and subbed off fairly early.

We just sent them on loan to the 2nd division of Spain.

They will help fight for promotion to La Liga vs. helping us fight for the title in the Prem.

The reality is, there is no way of knowing how good these youngsters are until they have a run in the side.

As others have mentioned, they cannot possibly be any worse than how our current defenders are performing.

Look at other clubs, over the years some very average have performed regularly for top clubs - Jonny Evans, Mikael Silvestre etc. But if you have a settled defence and a system in place then you can build a strong defence.

There is no guarantee Maffeo, Angelino, Tosin etc. will be a success for us in the Premier League. But we have to give them a shot, especially considering all of our defenders (Sagna aside) are pretty shite.

"They cannot possibly be worse."

You sure about that? Go watch Swansea's defending and tell me if you think we cannot do worse. That's in our own league.

We lost by and conceded one goal. So, just throw in a bunch of unproven defenders at this level (who have never even started a game in the Prem or more than 1 or 2 at a comparable level where they have very mixed results) over players who play regularly in a top 4 PL and CL side, and have won titles (even if old, slow, flawed, on the decline) and the logical conclusion is we cannot do worse?

Please explain.

Don't think anyone is wanting a bunch of them thrown in at the same time it has to be phased one in with the other regulars to help them through the initial adjustment, throwing 3/4 into a nothing game like Celtic won't give a true reflection on their ability to step up. Maffeo played with a more established back 4 at swamp didn't look out of place that for me is how it should be done

Maybe Pep envisages not actually playing with fullbacks?

If we had three competent defenders at the back and a decent holding midfielder then we could accommodate six attackers. The opening day formation gave us a hint of this with both fullbacks on the day tucking into the centre of midfield. Most fullbacks who are deemed decent these days and relatively recently seem to do most of their better work in the opposition half anyway, Alba, Alaba, Carvahal, Marcelo, dani Alves, Ashley Cole, Roberto Carlos to name a few. None of these above players are what you'd deem "solid" defenders.

We would then play a 3-1-4-2 formation which would allow for more room for attack minded players whilst finding room for Peps beloved midfielders

nottsblue wrote:Maybe Pep envisages not actually playing with fullbacks?
If we had three competent defenders at the back and a decent holding midfielder then we could accommodate six attackers. The opening day formation gave us a hint of this with both fullbacks on the day tucking into the centre of midfield. Most fullbacks who are deemed decent these days and relatively recently seem to do most of their better work in the opposition half anyway, Alba, Alaba, Carvahal, Marcelo, dani Alves, Ashley Cole, Roberto Carlos to name a few. None of these above players are what you'd deem "solid" defenders.

We would then play a 3-1-4-2 formation which would allow for more room for attack minded players whilst finding room for Peps beloved midfielders

+1

Dub City wrote:

PrezIke wrote:
Please explain.

Don't think anyone is wanting a bunch of them thrown in at the same time it has to be phased one in with the other regulars to help them through the initial adjustment, throwing 3/4 into a nothing game like Celtic won't give a true reflection on their ability to step up. Maffeo played with a more established back 4 at swamp didn't look out of place that for me is how it should be done

Pep is very much pro-youth. He's not Pellegrini. He signed 3 players for the 1st team who are between 19-22 years old.

You have to be good enough. That's just it.

We are assuming he cannot judge their abilities. We don't watch them in training.

We lack leadership in the squad. I think Zaba is in there, in part, because he bleeds (literally) for the club. Pep likes that and that talk they had to keep Zaba around meant something. Sanga is also here.

It's not ideal, but it is what it is.

Simple fact is the best 4 full backs on our books are Sagna, Zaba, Kolarov and Clichy, end of. Need to buy two more