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Got to be for the betterment of the long run. Take the short term pain. Bed it in. Be future awesome.

More mistakes will come. Accept it.

Beefymcfc wrote:

Dimples wrote:This is a NEW system, NEW players, NEW manager, NEW ideas.
What do people expect?
Perfection from the word GO?

No, not at all. It's a matter of you accept that the manager does his thing for the betterment in the long run or you don't accept it because you believe the manager should be able to do that but give appreciation to the players he's got.

Where are you in this?

I hope I understand the question correctly.
Betterment in the long run is the most important thing for me.
Because it will be sustainable and fantastic to watch that type of football.

In the short term, Pep has not got the players he needs.
He is short on full backs, centre half, a mid fielder and a forward.
So the players he will keep are learning the new stuff, Brown, Sterling, Sane........
If we win stuff while we transition that is a bonus.
Barca result is due to players transitioning to new style and being without the players we will buy or promote from academy.
So the Barca result is acceptable to me.

Dimples wrote:This is a NEW system, NEW players, NEW manager, NEW ideas.
What do people expect?
Perfection from the word GO?

Perfection? No.

However, i do expect a keeper who is used to playing out from the back with the ball at his feet to be good at doing so.
he did it last season at Barca and, according to multiple articles, he's been doing it his entire career (which is why people saying Bravo was the perfect fit for Pep's system). Pep shipped out Hart because he didnt think he fit his system--largely if not entirely because of his inability to begin the play from the back. so far Bravo looks the same as Joe did. that's where my problem is.

i understand that its a new league for him, that he's got new teammates & a new manager, and that its a new system for him.
that being said, none of that should affect his ability to play the ball with his feet.

It shouldn't be a "new system" for him because he was bought because he knew the system and Hart didn't.

All players give the ball away. It needs to stop although it is sadly inevitable that upfucks will be made at some point.

He needs backing from fans and teammates because he won't get any favours from the media.

phips wrote:

Dimples wrote:This is a NEW system, NEW players, NEW manager, NEW ideas.
What do people expect?
Perfection from the word GO?

Perfection? No.

However, i do expect a keeper who is used to playing out from the back with the ball at his feet to be good at doing so.
he did it last season at Barca and, according to multiple articles, he's been doing it his entire career (which is why people saying Bravo was the perfect fit for Pep's system). Pep shipped out Hart because he didnt think he fit his system--largely if not entirely because of his inability to begin the play from the back. so far Bravo looks the same as Joe did. that's where my problem is.

i understand that its a new league for him, that he's got new teammates & a new manager, and that its a new system for him.
that being said, none of that should affect his ability to play the ball with his feet.

You can't be serious?

Do some of us understand the word patience?

Bravo has also done a lot of good things that Joe I suspect will never do.

He is considered a top keeper for a reason and I am not saying he has been magnificent either. It's October and we are trying a new style with several new key players.

I'd wager we will only get better.

I'm not even 100% sure what he did (to come out) was necessarily the wrong decision.

PrezIke wrote:Do some of us understand the word patience?

Bravo has also done a lot of good things that Joe I suspect will never do.

He is considered a top keeper for a reason and I am not saying he has been magnificent either. It's October and we are trying a new style with several new key players.

I'd wager we will only get better.

I'm not even 100% sure what he did (to come out) was necessarily the wrong decision.

Why do you believe that? I would have preferred him to concede the goal and stay on the field, even though it would have been 2 down we might have had a better chance with 11.

Leaving out that error on Wednesday he hasn't been impressive so far and as pointed out he is more than familiar with this style of play.

sheblue wrote:

PrezIke wrote:Do some of us understand the word patience?

Bravo has also done a lot of good things that Joe I suspect will never do.

He is considered a top keeper for a reason and I am not saying he has been magnificent either. It's October and we are trying a new style with several new key players.

I'd wager we will only get better.

I'm not even 100% sure what he did (to come out) was necessarily the wrong decision.

Why do you believe that? I would have preferred him to concede the goal and stay on the field, even though it would have been 2 down we might have had a better chance with 11.

Leaving out that error on Wednesday he hasn't been impressive so far and as pointed out he is more than familiar with this style of play.

Yes I think it was one poor decision after another.

BUT - he is here, he aint gonna go. pep is going to stick with him so let's just get on with it eh? De Bruyne and Gundogan also made poor decsions when under the pressure of playing Barca.

PrezIke wrote:Do some of us understand the word patience?

Bravo has also done a lot of good things that Joe I suspect will never do.

He is considered a top keeper for a reason and I am not saying he has been magnificent either. It's October and we are trying a new style with several new key players.

I'd wager we will only get better.

I'm not even 100% sure what he did (to come out) was necessarily the wrong decision.

If he doesn't come out to meet the ball then Suarez is through one on one. The decision to come out was right. The execution of the attempted pass was badly wrong.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if some of us are critical of Bravo or, on the other hand, prepared to make allowances for him because some things, at the moment, are immutable :-

(i) Pep is the Manager our owners have wanted for some time and, on that basis, he has a fairly free hand to go about things as he sees fit.

(ii) Pep will not change, drop or sacrifice his footballing principles.

(iii) Pep wants his goalkeepers to be 'sweeper keepers' and he brought Bravo in, specifically, for this purpose.

(iv) It's highly inconceivable, at the moment, that Joe Hart will ever find a place in a Pep side.

(v) We're not in a process of evolution, we're in a process of Pep's revolution, so we are going to be in for a bumpy ride in many ways. If we don't like it, at the end of the day, we'll just have to lump it and hope all will turn out well.

(vi) Bravo may well only be a short term 'fix' but, under Pep, whomsoever replaces him (Gunn ??) will play in exactly the same way, as required by our Manager.


The only factor which would change any of the above is if our owners decided, for whatever reason, to pull the plug on Pep which, for the time being, is unlikely.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

PrezIke wrote:Do some of us understand the word patience?

Bravo has also done a lot of good things that Joe I suspect will never do.

He is considered a top keeper for a reason and I am not saying he has been magnificent either. It's October and we are trying a new style with several new key players.

I'd wager we will only get better.

I'm not even 100% sure what he did (to come out) was necessarily the wrong decision.

If he doesn't come out to meet the ball then Suarez is through one on one. The decision to come out was right. The execution of the attempted pass was badly wrong.

Spot on. Execution was poor, it was nearly too easy and he got complacent and made a mess of it, he could of just taken the ball in the face after that or let it go in so essentially two poor decisions.

Funnily i was talkin to my mate at half time, a dipper and we were talking about how great bravo is, knew i should of said nothing!

phips wrote:

Dimples wrote:This is a NEW system, NEW players, NEW manager, NEW ideas.
What do people expect?
Perfection from the word GO?

Perfection? No.r

However, i do expect a keeper who is used to playing out from the back with the ball at his feet to be good at doing so.
he did it last season at Barca and, according to multiple articles, he's been doing it his entire career (which is why people saying Bravo was the perfect fit for Pep's system). Pep shipped out Hart because he didnt think he fit his system--largely if not entirely because of his inability to begin the play from the back. so far Bravo looks the same as Joe did. that's where my problem is.

i understand that its a new league for him, that he's got new teammates & a new manager, and that its a new system for him.
that being said, none of that should affect his ability to play the ball with his feet.

Same as joe? Come off it Phips, Look at Bravos body shape when he is ready to receive the ball, he knows where he is going just like an outfield player, Joe looks wooden in comparison and he always shuffles around trying to adjust his feet after the ball is sent to him or even after taking his first touch, rather than already having his feet adjusted like Bravo does. I watch Bravo and completely understand why Pep chose him over Joe all day long. We have been over Joes ground game a 1000 times. Yes he may be a better all round keeper but that's not what pep wants from a keeper, surely, with all your time watching german league games, you should know this.

Bravo's problem is he will only get recognition for making saves, however, some of his play at the back as been superb at times. Pep said we will make mistakes and thats football, we just have to accept it.

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if some of us are critical of Bravo or, on the other hand, prepared to make allowances for him because some things, at the moment, are immutable :-

(i) Pep is the Manager our owners have wanted for some time and, on that basis, he has a fairly free hand to go about things as he sees fit.

(ii) Pep will not change, drop or sacrifice his footballing principles.

(iii) Pep wants his goalkeepers to be 'sweeper keepers' and he brought Bravo in, specifically, for this purpose.

(iv) It's highly inconceivable, at the moment, that Joe Hart will ever find a place in a Pep side.

(v) We're not in a process of evolution, we're in a process of Pep's revolution, so we are going to be in for a bumpy ride in many ways. If we don't like it, at the end of the day, we'll just have to lump it and hope all will turn out well.

(vi) Bravo may well only be a short term 'fix' but, under Pep, whomsoever replaces him (Gunn ??) will play in exactly the same way, as required by our Manager.


The only factor which would change any of the above is if our owners decided, for whatever reason, to pull the plug on Pep which, for the time being, is unlikely.

Spot on

i dont care what your body looks like. i care where the ball goes and, for as lauded as he's done, Bravo's passing hasn't been impressive.
also, to be clear and to avoid confusion, im not arguing we should've kept Joe. im simply saying that at this point in the season--in late October--that Joe's replacement has not been an improvement.

I've been talking entirely about Bravo's play with his feet but let's also mention that we've kept 1 clean sheet (or is it 2?) all season. yes there have been injuries, yes Aleks has played CB, yes there have been OGs, but I've seen other keepers at other clubs deal with the same and still play out of their minds. again, yes its only October. thats why im only talking about what he's done thus far.

A man born in Catalunya came to Manchester after winning a lot of important trophies and could we say after a few City official games he failed to sign a golkeeper? In Pep and obviously in Bravo we trust!

nottsblue wrote:

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if some of us are critical of Bravo or, on the other hand, prepared to make allowances for him because some things, at the moment, are immutable :-

(i) Pep is the Manager our owners have wanted for some time and, on that basis, he has a fairly free hand to go about things as he sees fit.

(ii) Pep will not change, drop or sacrifice his footballing principles.

(iii) Pep wants his goalkeepers to be 'sweeper keepers' and he brought Bravo in, specifically, for this purpose.

(iv) It's highly inconceivable, at the moment, that Joe Hart will ever find a place in a Pep side.

(v) We're not in a process of evolution, we're in a process of Pep's revolution, so we are going to be in for a bumpy ride in many ways. If we don't like it, at the end of the day, we'll just have to lump it and hope all will turn out well.

(vi) Bravo may well only be a short term 'fix' but, under Pep, whomsoever replaces him (Gunn ??) will play in exactly the same way, as required by our Manager.


The only factor which would change any of the above is if our owners decided, for whatever reason, to pull the plug on Pep which, for the time being, is unlikely.

Spot on

Very true. All opinion null and void, everybody back to the Bat Cave and we'll come back out when we can talk about the next wave.

When does Pep's contract run until again. See you all in 32 months.

PS. Just for clarification on the Bravo debate, my view is that he has, and will, cost us more than he saves unless the manager (that is Pep) decides to change the tactics to allow for a hoof out now and then. Our defence have proved that when under pressure, the ball playing aspect doesn't work. If you want proof, look at our last 5 games.

Cheerio

Beefymcfc wrote:PS. Just for clarification on the Bravo debate, my view is that he has, and will, cost us more than he saves unless the manager (that is Pep) decides to change the tactics to allow for a hoof out now and then. Our defence have proved that when under pressure, the ball playing aspect doesn't work. If you want proof, look at our last 5 games.

^ Only this

phips wrote:i dont care what your body looks like. i care where the ball goes and, for as lauded as he's done, Bravo's passing hasn't been impressive.
also, to be clear and to avoid confusion, im not arguing we should've kept Joe. im simply saying that at this point in the season--in late October--that Joe's replacement has not been an improvement.

I've been talking entirely about Bravo's play with his feet but let's also mention that we've kept 1 clean sheet (or is it 2?) all season. yes there have been injuries, yes Aleks has played CB, yes there have been OGs, but I've seen other keepers at other clubs deal with the same and still play out of their minds. again, yes its only October. thats why im only talking about what he's done thus far.

so just dismiss anything but what's in your own head. why try and discuss what you don't care about?

Beefymcfc wrote:

nottsblue wrote:

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if some of us are critical of Bravo or, on the other hand, prepared to make allowances for him because some things, at the moment, are immutable :-

(i) Pep is the Manager our owners have wanted for some time and, on that basis, he has a fairly free hand to go about things as he sees fit.

(ii) Pep will not change, drop or sacrifice his footballing principles.

(iii) Pep wants his goalkeepers to be 'sweeper keepers' and he brought Bravo in, specifically, for this purpose.

(iv) It's highly inconceivable, at the moment, that Joe Hart will ever find a place in a Pep side.

(v) We're not in a process of evolution, we're in a process of Pep's revolution, so we are going to be in for a bumpy ride in many ways. If we don't like it, at the end of the day, we'll just have to lump it and hope all will turn out well.

(vi) Bravo may well only be a short term 'fix' but, under Pep, whomsoever replaces him (Gunn ??) will play in exactly the same way, as required by our Manager.


The only factor which would change any of the above is if our owners decided, for whatever reason, to pull the plug on Pep which, for the time being, is unlikely.

Spot on

Very true. All opinion null and void, everybody back to the Bat Cave and we'll come back out when we can talk about the next wave.

When does Pep's contract run until again. See you all in 32 months.

PS. Just for clarification on the Bravo debate, my view is that he has, and will, cost us more than he saves unless the manager (that is Pep) decides to change the tactics to allow for a hoof out now and then. Our defence have proved that when under pressure, the ball playing aspect doesn't work. If you want proof, look at our last 5 games.

Cheerio

He has hoofed it now and again in the games he's played for us so far.

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if some of us are critical of Bravo or, on the other hand, prepared to make allowances for him because some things, at the moment, are immutable :-

(i) Pep is the Manager our owners have wanted for some time and, on that basis, he has a fairly free hand to go about things as he sees fit.

(ii) Pep will not change, drop or sacrifice his footballing principles.

(iii) Pep wants his goalkeepers to be 'sweeper keepers' and he brought Bravo in, specifically, for this purpose.

(iv) It's highly inconceivable, at the moment, that Joe Hart will ever find a place in a Pep side.

(v) We're not in a process of evolution, we're in a process of Pep's revolution, so we are going to be in for a bumpy ride in many ways. If we don't like it, at the end of the day, we'll just have to lump it and hope all will turn out well.

(vi) Bravo may well only be a short term 'fix' but, under Pep, whomsoever replaces him (Gun
n ??) will play in exactly the same way, as required by our Manager.


The only factor which would change any of the above is if our owners decided, for whatever reason, to pull the plug on Pep which, for the time being, is unlikely.

Totally agree with you, mate!