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Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Slim wrote:I really don't care, but it's fun to see you Irish get all defensive.

So you're just trolling then Slim?

And this isn't being defensive either. We've heard it all. Don't care.

littlebig wrote:

PeterParker wrote:A romanian makes this official thread for you lazy lot.

Shame, shame, shame!

There were chants of "you're shit but your birds are fit, you're shit but your birds are fit..." at the ground

Looking at the crowd scenes yesterday, I have to say that's what really struck me.......
We really are an awful ugly bunch aren't we......might as well just enjoy the party....and we do.

Well played Ireland! You deserved the win in my opinion, but I'll take the one point ;-)

Can't help but thinking that that was a result that will mean that none of us make it to the play-off stage, since we probably both will get beaten by Italy and Belgium, but who knows. The Italians may struggle a bit when they are the ones who have to set the pace and control the game and the Belgians might get nervous after last night's poor performance.

I was very disappointed with the Swedish team. I knew we were poor, but we totally bottled it in the first half. The players looked nervous and lacked fight.
That said, if you don't count Zlatan, I would say that the Irish squad is just as strong, if not stronger, than the Swedish. And Zlatan was totally marked out of the game (and also didn't have a great game). He might think twice about coming to the Premier League after last night!

mr_nool wrote:Well played Ireland! You deserved the win in my opinion, but I'll take the one point ;-)

Can't help but thinking that that was a result that will mean that none of us make it to the play-off stage, since we probably both will get beaten by Italy and Belgium, but who knows. The Italians may struggle a bit when they are the ones who have to set the pace and control the game and the Belgians might get nervous after last night's poor performance.

I was very disappointed with the Swedish team. I knew we were poor, but we totally bottled it in the first half. The players looked nervous and lacked fight.
That said, if you don't count Zlatan, I would say that the Irish squad is just as strong, if not stronger, than the Swedish. And Zlatan was totally marked out of the game (and also didn't have a great game). He might think twice about coming to the Premier League after last night!

I kind of agree about the knock on effects of the result.One of us needed to win, although you never know what you might get off Belgium, having seen them last night.
I think the Irish and the Swedes should just get together and party........although I can't help feel we are getting the better end of that deal, looking at your supporters.

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Slim wrote:I really don't care, but it's fun to see you Irish get all defensive.

So you're just trolling then Slim?

And this isn't being defensive either. We've heard it all. Don't care.

iwasthere2012 wrote:I let it go earlier FIBD because I couldn't be arsed dignifying it. But just to set the record straight, out of the starting 11 only Clark, McCarthy and Walters weren't born in Ireland. McGeady came on as sub as did two other Irish born players (I'm counting Derry for McClean as he clearly does)
Anyway, I make that 4 out of 14. I'll leave it to Slim to name the other 5.

If you aren't being defensive, you probably shouldn't have defended it then.

Slim wrote:

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Slim wrote:I really don't care, but it's fun to see you Irish get all defensive.

So you're just trolling then Slim?

And this isn't being defensive either. We've heard it all. Don't care.

iwasthere2012 wrote:I let it go earlier FIBD because I couldn't be arsed dignifying it. But just to set the record straight, out of the starting 11 only Clark, McCarthy and Walters weren't born in Ireland. McGeady came on as sub as did two other Irish born players (I'm counting Derry for McClean as he clearly does)
Anyway, I make that 4 out of 14. I'll leave it to Slim to name the other 5.

If you aren't being defensive, you probably shouldn't have defended it then.

Whatever!

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Dimples wrote:A 'country' winning an international event means nothing nowadays.
83 players at Euro 2016 (15%) will represent countries they were not born in.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... on-column/

I used to enjoy looking at international competition, when countries were represented by 'natives' i.e. players either born or brought up from a young age in the country they represented.
Very few countries have genuine teams nowadays - across all sports.

Irish rugby team had a player sent off last weekend - he was born and raised in South Africa?
New Zealand had 5 players at last rugby world cup not born in New Zealand (Wales had 11 - yes - 11 were English born)
Diego Costa played for both Brazil and Spain, etc...
Switzerland via Albania had brothers on different sides.

I think Wales have 7/8 English born players - go WALES!
If 3 non-Irish born players were on the field at kick-off that means that 73% of the total were Irish born.
So what is the point of calling that team Ireland - its not Ireland - it is Ireland + a few others.
Same with most international teams nowadays.

So if I watch an international tournament nowadays it is to watch the sport played at a high level -
to appreciate the skill and competition - not to get all nationalistic and actually 'care' about my country winning.

Don't worry this bunch won't be winning much soon, no matter where they were born.
And you are totally miising the point as far as following the Irish National team goes. It is not Nationalism as you may percieve it, but it is Pride in representring your country. It is the very least any fan expects of anyone who puts on a green jersey and that includes the fans that don it too.
When we have little else going for us over here, the chance to represent something positive of the country on a world stage is something that is deep within us. It is why sport elevates the Nation.
Let's face it, professional sport is all business nowadays. I think it is in the Irish psyche, that any Irish national sports team or individual that gets the chance to represent us gets the full backing of the country as a whole, in the full knowledge that the chances of victory are slim.
We respect 100% effort from the team even if they fall short and the fans will give it their all too, to keep the true nature of it being a sporting event, alive.

Ireland has a small enough pool to choose from. We endured a century and a half of emigration not immigration like some countries (who also benefit from the diversity). Our diaspora is worldwide. Packy Bonner played his whole career at Celtic. Like he often said......if one of his kids wanted to play for Ireland, who was going to tell him he couldn't.

Like I said earlier (tongue in cheek to Slim). As far as i'm concerned, they're all Oirish he they choose to declare for us......as long as they honour the tradition of giving their all.

Two points:

1. International sport should be about representing your country not trying your best for Ireland if you are not good enough to play for England.
Substitute any number of countries for Ireland and England above i.e. Wales/England(all sports), Tonga/New Zealand (Rugby), etc...

Put it another way - Kane, Rooney, Wio could all play for Ireland if they choose to.
They choose not to because they are: 1. English born and bred 2. Good enough for England 3. Therefore, to good for Ireland.
Walters and the rest are inferior versions of Kane, Rooney and Wio.
So they play for Ireland because they are: 1. English born and bred 2. Not good enough for England 3. Have an Irish Granny and are not very good

So if you are Irish, you should support Walters et al. because they are English and try their best for Ireland?
That is not a good enough reason.

2. It works the other way as well.
You can be Irish and be to good to play for Ireland. Like Ed Joyce at the cricket. So he played for England and he tried his best.

Does this make Ed Joyce English?
No it does not. He is Irish and played for England to try and reach his potential.

Why should English cricket fans support him? He is Irish and he did try his best in an English shirt?
That is not a good enough reason.

As I said before a 'country' winning an international event means nothing nowadays. It is a complete farce.

BTW: Somebody should tell the Irish supporters that their national flag colours are: green/white/ORANGE not green/white/YELLOW ;)

It's great how City has a team full of Mancunians, isn't it Dimples?

Dimples wrote:

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Dimples wrote:A 'country' winning an international event means nothing nowadays.
83 players at Euro 2016 (15%) will represent countries they were not born in.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... on-column/

I used to enjoy looking at international competition, when countries were represented by 'natives' i.e. players either born or brought up from a young age in the country they represented.
Very few countries have genuine teams nowadays - across all sports.

Irish rugby team had a player sent off last weekend - he was born and raised in South Africa?
New Zealand had 5 players at last rugby world cup not born in New Zealand (Wales had 11 - yes - 11 were English born)
Diego Costa played for both Brazil and Spain, etc...
Switzerland via Albania had brothers on different sides.

I think Wales have 7/8 English born players - go WALES!
If 3 non-Irish born players were on the field at kick-off that means that 73% of the total were Irish born.
So what is the point of calling that team Ireland - its not Ireland - it is Ireland + a few others.
Same with most international teams nowadays.

So if I watch an international tournament nowadays it is to watch the sport played at a high level -
to appreciate the skill and competition - not to get all nationalistic and actually 'care' about my country winning.

Don't worry this bunch won't be winning much soon, no matter where they were born.
And you are totally miising the point as far as following the Irish National team goes. It is not Nationalism as you may percieve it, but it is Pride in representring your country. It is the very least any fan expects of anyone who puts on a green jersey and that includes the fans that don it too.
When we have little else going for us over here, the chance to represent something positive of the country on a world stage is something that is deep within us. It is why sport elevates the Nation.
Let's face it, professional sport is all business nowadays. I think it is in the Irish psyche, that any Irish national sports team or individual that gets the chance to represent us gets the full backing of the country as a whole, in the full knowledge that the chances of victory are slim.
We respect 100% effort from the team even if they fall short and the fans will give it their all too, to keep the true nature of it being a sporting event, alive.

Ireland has a small enough pool to choose from. We endured a century and a half of emigration not immigration like some countries (who also benefit from the diversity). Our diaspora is worldwide. Packy Bonner played his whole career at Celtic. Like he often said......if one of his kids wanted to play for Ireland, who was going to tell him he couldn't.

Like I said earlier (tongue in cheek to Slim). As far as i'm concerned, they're all Oirish he they choose to declare for us......as long as they honour the tradition of giving their all.

Two points:

1. International sport should be about representing your country not trying your best for Ireland if you are not good enough to play for England.
Substitute any number of countries for Ireland and England above i.e. Wales/England(all sports), Tonga/New Zealand (Rugby), etc...

Put it another way - Kane, Rooney, Wio could all play for Ireland if they choose to.
They choose not to because they are: 1. English born and bred 2. Good enough for England 3. Therefore, to good for Ireland.
Walters and the rest are inferior versions of Kane, Rooney and Wio.
So they play for Ireland because they are: 1. English born and bred 2. Not good enough for England 3. Have an Irish Granny and are not very good

So if you are Irish, you should support Walters et al. because they are English and try their best for Ireland?
That is not a good enough reason.

2. It works the other way as well.
You can be Irish and be to good to play for Ireland. Like Ed Joyce at the cricket. So he played for England and he tried his best.

Does this make Ed Joyce English?
No it does not. He is Irish and played for England to try and reach his potential.

Why should English cricket fans support him? He is Irish and he did try his best in an English shirt?
That is not a good enough reason.

As I said before a 'country' winning an international event means nothing nowadays. It is a complete farce.

BTW: Somebody should tell the Irish supporters that their national flag colours are: green/white/ORANGE not green/white/YELLOW ;)

Not sure if you are genuinely getting worked up here or not, but yourself and Slim seem to care more about this than we do.

Point 1: You're not wrong. I've already stated that we have journeymen who are not going to win anything. We also have a history going back decades of players declaring for us instead of Scotland and Northern Ireland so it really depends on your perspective of what 'not good enough to play for' is. I get your point however, but I'm not sure you get mine.

'So if you are Irish, you should support Walters et al. because they are English and try their best for Ireland?
That is not a good enough reason.'
I'm not supporting any individual, I'm supporting the concept of a team representing Irish values. The average Irish sports fan that you see turn up at these events, would do so whether it was Rugby, Boxing or any Olympic event to support Irelandon a global stage. I think your concept of national pride and mine are two very different perspectives and I don't expect you to have the same psyche or understanding of what it is any irish fan is following. I've tried to explain where it comes from. I think English fans follow their own version of national pride. I understand the frustrations of those that see players picked you don't agree with and it stops some from following the team wholeheartedly, but I probably can't fully understand the reasons, not being English.

Point 2: Regarding Ed Joyce. See point 1 about Irish football players being born in Scotland declaring for us. You say half our team comes from England but aren't good enough for you, but as many have had the chance to play for Scotland and chose us. What does that say about Scotland.
It says that they weren't qualifying and players saw Ireland as a better option. It's both sides of thesame coin and I've already agreed that you are right.
We could have done with Ed Joyce, but he saw England as a better chance of playing on a world stage. I don't know much about Cricket but as far as I know the World Cup or whatever the equivalent was invite only for Ireland and we weren't getting an invite, so understandable on his part.

There's another case where you wouldn't believe the amount of people who started watching the Irish Cricket team last year. I can't even tell you what the tournament was but I know we were doing alright. People here will follow Irish National Sport no matter what it is. Sport transcends the everyday shite that we have had to put up with over the last decade in particular and it lifts the mood of the nation. Particularly when it is something being showcased worldwide.

You only have to look at The Euros 2012 when we lost every match and still sang our hearts out at 4-0 down to Spain. People said 'Aw look at the Irish aren't they great'.
Do you think that was just for the team on the pitch. No that went much deeper. That was defiance. That was two fingers up to Angela Merkel et al. That's a different way than breaking up a town, but every bit as effective as far as we are concerned. Nobody gets hurt, you still have a good time. Your team were shite but the country still got represented.

It's not for evryone. But that's how it is.

What a load of bollox from Dimples.

littlebig wrote:What a load of bollox from Dimples.

No fuckin shit

Chopper wrote:

littlebig wrote:What a load of bollox from Dimples.

No fuckin shit

Lets agree to differ so. See below for a few final thoughts.

Think about this from last night and today when you watch each 'country's players' fight it out:

1. Austria had a Serbian sent of in their match Vs. Hungary
2. Portugal goal scorer is from Cape Verde in their match Vs. Iceland
3. Switzerland will play half a team that are not Swiss tonight Vs. Romania.........................................................

iwasthere2012:
I do get your point but as you say it is not for me.
For an international to have real meaning a national team should consist of players from that country.
Not players who play for another country only because they are not good enough to make their own national team.

Thought for the day (please correct me if I get this wrong):

In Ireland there is an amateur organisation called the Gaelic Athletic Association(GAA).
It is organised by parish within county. So a player will play for his parish club and if good enough for his county.
The big competition every year is the All Ireland. A knock out competition between all the counties. (80K fans at the final each year).
The point is that each county team is represented by players from that county, each parish club is represented by players from that parish.
So the players are representing their people, there is a tremendous bond between supporters and players, a real sense of purpose and pride.

That is missing from international competition.
For example, If I am Swiss. I am not going to get excited if Switzerland beat Romania when several players are not from Switzerland.
The players do not represent who they play for.
There is no connection.
It is just a flag of convenience to progress a career.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:It's great how City has a team full of Mancunians, isn't it Dimples?

Different concept.
Club football is about representing the club. It is irrelevant where the players hail from.
International football is about representing YOUR country. The players should be from the country they represent.
Otherwise do not call the matches internationals.

Dimples wrote:

Chopper wrote:

littlebig wrote:What a load of bollox from Dimples.

No fuckin shit

Lets agree to differ so. See below for a few final thoughts.

Think about this from last night and today when you watch each 'country's players' fight it out:

1. Austria had a Serbian sent of in their match Vs. Hungary
2. Portugal goal scorer is from Cape Verde in their match Vs. Iceland
3. Switzerland will play half a team that are not Swiss tonight Vs. Romania.........................................................

iwasthere2012:
I do get your point but as you say it is not for me.
For an international to have real meaning a national team should consist of players from that country.
Not players who play for another country only because they are not good enough to make their own national team.

Thought for the day (please correct me if I get this wrong):

In Ireland there is an amateur organisation called the Gaelic Athletic Association(GAA).
It is organised by parish within county. So a player will play for his parish club and if good enough for his county.
The big competition every year is the All Ireland. A knock out competition between all the counties. (80K fans at the final each year).
The point is that each county team is represented by players from that county, each parish club is represented by players from that parish.
So the players are representing their people, there is a tremendous bond between supporters and players, a real sense of purpose and pride.

That is missing from international competition.
For example, If I am Swiss. I am not going to get excited if Switzerland beat Romania when several players are not from Switzerland.
The players do not represent who they play for.
There is no connection.
It is just a flag of convenience to progress a career.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:It's great how City has a team full of Mancunians, isn't it Dimples?

Different concept.
Club football is about representing the club. It is irrelevant where the players hail from.
International football is about representing YOUR country. The players should be from the country they represent.
Otherwise do not call the matches internationals.

I'll be brief Dimples as I've already agreed that you are right in your concept.
Your analysis with the GAA is spot on but your conclusion that you put to FIBD is slightly inaccurate in my view.
I think the key word in your GAA analysis is 'Amateur'. and that is something that the administration has fought hard to maintain.
FIBD's example of City and comparing it with your analysis of International football, have a lot more in common, in my view, than you give him credit for.
The key being that it is Professional Interest that is driving the same behaviour in Club and country football. People want to be on the world stage.
I could expand but I'm sure you are smart enough to know where I'm going with that.

Dimples, that is just laughable.

Btw you still haven't answered me as to when it was that you enjoyed international football.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Dimples, that is just laughable.

maybe but so is this:

Italy 1 Sweden 0 The Italian goal scorer was Brazilian
It makes as much sense as this
West Ham 1 Spurs 0. The West Ham goal scorer is a Stoke player

Btw you still haven't answered me as to when it was that you enjoyed international football.

From 1970.
There were always outliers like Di Stefano, gradually got worse and now the extent of it is laughable.
So laughable that international football no longer has any meaning.
But go wave your flag if it still means something to you.
I realise that very few share my opinion but that is the it is for me.

Dimples wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Dimples, that is just laughable.

Btw you still haven't answered me as to when it was that you enjoyed international football.

maybe it is laughable but so is this:

From 1970 I enjoyed international football - loved it.
There were always outliers like Di Stefano, gradually got worse and now the extent of it is laughable.
So laughable that international football no longer has any meaning.
But go wave your flag if it still means something to you.
I realise that very few share my opinion but that is the it is for me.

Italy 1 Sweden 0 The Italian goal scorer was Brazilian
It makes as much sense as this
West Ham 1 Spurs 0. The West Ham goal scorer is a Stoke player

I've read some bollox on this thread. Half the English cricket team is full of South Africans who felt they wouldn't get a gig for their own country. Every country has stories like this. It's proper hypocritical to pick one country and attack them for it. The tone of some comments are pretty disrespectful and make me squirm a bit. My mum is Irish and, although I'm English, I would have chosen to play for Ireland if I had the ability to get to that level.

Laughable because you claim club football is a different concept. Why do you think clubs set up in the first place?

Where's your thread?

COME ON MOSTLY IRELAND!

Slim wrote:Where's your thread?

COME ON MOSTLY IRELAND!

We do need a thread!!