ched evans

Here is the place to talk about all things city and football!

Re: ched evans

Postby Cocacolajojo » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:49 pm

Im_Spartacus wrote:It was a very very strange case, all the moreso given Clayton's outcome. In reality, there is a considerable doubt on just how drunk she actually was (including CCTV evidence that refutes the suggestion she could hardly stand up)


It's not unusual at all to have rape trials where several men (or women for that matter) are accused and even have had sex with the woman but only one gets convicted. It can be related to a lot of things. In Sweden at least there has to be the intent of rape for a person to be sentenced for rape (with certain exceptions of course, under age girls one of them) and if it cannot be proven that the others were aware of taking part of a rape, it's not rape. Etc. Not uncommon and does not say anything about whether they were guilty as well or not, just that it cannot be proven. I'm guessing it's the same in the UK but if I'm wrong I'd very much like to be enlightened.

Secondly, I don't think she's claimed that she was that drunk and that was actually part of her argument. I.E. something like "I didn't drink that much so I must've been drugged. Found this, it says so here at least linking to a daily mail article though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Evans.

And I'm not posting this to claim that Evans is guilty or that he's not guilty. I haven't read the verdict and it's clearly been overturned. Just trying to clear out a couple of things. I Have a sore spot for this type of stuff.
Last edited by Cocacolajojo on Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Cocacolajojo
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
De Jong's Tackle
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:18 am
Location: Umeå
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: Agüero

Re: ched evans

Postby Beefymcfc » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Fuck me, or maybe not in this case, but that is a huge admission towards the case, if proven. Isnt there a new law that if a person gives false evidence that could lead to a conviction, they could go to jail?
In the words of my Old Man, "Life will never be the same without Man City, so get it in while you can".

The Future's Bright, The Future's Blue!!!
User avatar
Beefymcfc
Anna Connell's Vision
 
Posts: 46203
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:14 am
Supporter of: The Mighty Blues

Re: ched evans

Postby Cocacolajojo » Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:57 pm

Mase wrote:
Not really an 'excellent' analogy is it when that isn't what was claimed.

A far as I'm aware the 'victim' never claimed she'd passed out, rather she 'couldn't remember consenting to sex'. Slightly different to have sex with someone whilst they're passed out than have sex with someone that is 'too drunk to remember'.

The hotel porter provided an account where he heard them having sex. So she definitely wasn't passed out. Read the facts of the case before we go on please.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/woman-gives-evidence-rape-trial-2047672

“I felt tipsy but not out of control,” she told police.

“I usually drink more than that. I haven’t blacked out before, not being able to remember anything.”


She claimed to be not remember anything at least. Doesn't matter though if she's publically confessed to lying. If that's what she's done.
User avatar
Cocacolajojo
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
De Jong's Tackle
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:18 am
Location: Umeå
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: Agüero

Re: ched evans

Postby kinsey » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:02 pm

Mase wrote:
kinsey wrote:Mase - i would hazard a guess that I am more familiar with the facts of the case than you are.

An analogy is not the same as a blow by blow account.

But in an effort to keep you appeased, who did the porter hear have sex?


You tell me pal. You are more familiar with the facts of the case than I am.


But being familiar with the case does not mean that I know what happened!

Only a couple of people really know, but for me, even their submissions are unreliable because of various circumstances. Consequently, I am not as quick to condemn any of them as others seem to be - apart from the accusation of stupidity and poor judgement.
kinsey
Robinho's Step Over
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:59 pm

Re: ched evans

Postby Mase » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:04 pm

Cocacolajojo wrote:
Mase wrote:
Not really an 'excellent' analogy is it when that isn't what was claimed.

A far as I'm aware the 'victim' never claimed she'd passed out, rather she 'couldn't remember consenting to sex'. Slightly different to have sex with someone whilst they're passed out than have sex with someone that is 'too drunk to remember'.

The hotel porter provided an account where he heard them having sex. So she definitely wasn't passed out. Read the facts of the case before we go on please.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/woman-gives-evidence-rape-trial-2047672

“I felt tipsy but not out of control,” she told police.

“I usually drink more than that. I haven’t blacked out before, not being able to remember anything.”


She claimed to be not remember anything at least. Doesn't matter though if she's publically confessed to lying. If that's what she's done.


Yeh mate, blacking out and not remembering anything is different to passing out.

I remember after a works do a couple of years ago (still adamant I got my drink spiked) I just left the venue feeling like I had too much, and the next I remember I was in the middle of the road near a mates house probably a good 3 miles away. Now I definitely didn't pass out or I'd still be lying in a farmers field now - but I definitely blacked out and have no recollection of how I got near to my friends at all.

Edit: if two lads came over and asked me if I fancied a bum during that blackout I'd fully expect both to get done for rape if they both went through with the bumming.
Mase
Anna Connell's Vision
 
Posts: 38875
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:08 pm
Location: The North Pole.
Supporter of: Warnock's Ref Rants
My favourite player is: Danny Tiatto

Re: ched evans

Postby Cocacolajojo » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:16 pm

Mase wrote:
Cocacolajojo wrote:
Mase wrote:
Not really an 'excellent' analogy is it when that isn't what was claimed.

A far as I'm aware the 'victim' never claimed she'd passed out, rather she 'couldn't remember consenting to sex'. Slightly different to have sex with someone whilst they're passed out than have sex with someone that is 'too drunk to remember'.

The hotel porter provided an account where he heard them having sex. So she definitely wasn't passed out. Read the facts of the case before we go on please.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/woman-gives-evidence-rape-trial-2047672

“I felt tipsy but not out of control,” she told police.

“I usually drink more than that. I haven’t blacked out before, not being able to remember anything.”


She claimed to be not remember anything at least. Doesn't matter though if she's publically confessed to lying. If that's what she's done.


Yeh mate, blacking out and not remembering anything is different to passing out.

I remember after a works do a couple of years ago (still adamant I got my drink spiked) I just left the venue feeling like I had too much, and the next I remember I was in the middle of the road near a mates house probably a good 3 miles away. Now I definitely didn't pass out or I'd still be lying in a farmers field now - but I definitely blacked out and have no recollection of how I got near to my friends at all.

Edit: if two lads came over and asked me if I fancied a bum during that blackout I'd fully expect both to get done for rape if they both went through with the bumming.


Jesus. A friend of mine woke up in the middle of a intersection because of cars honking at him. Sounds similar to your story.. He's a drunk though, no mystery there :/.
User avatar
Cocacolajojo
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
De Jong's Tackle
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:18 am
Location: Umeå
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: Agüero

Re: ched evans

Postby patrickblue » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:25 pm

Beefymcfc wrote:Fuck me, or maybe not in this case, but that is a huge admission towards the case, if proven. Isnt there a new law that if a person gives false evidence that could lead to a conviction, they could go to jail?


I'd imagine that the new evidence is something along the lines that Mase has heard about.
And if that's the case, she could certainly be prosecuted.
Working in supported housing, I had the misfortune, along with some of my colleagues, to end up as a prosecution witness against a woman who had alleged rape.
She was found guilty, the police threw the book at her, and she was jailed for something like two years.
[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7qDYcso3azifQVyg/html5[/img]
User avatar
patrickblue
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Shaun Goater's 103 Goals
 
Posts: 7132
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: Newbury Berks
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: The one and only Goat

Re: ched evans

Postby MilnersJaw » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:05 pm

I think he's gulity as sin and he's only getting this mistrial because he's thrown money at it.
Still here.
User avatar
MilnersJaw
Kinky's Mazy Dribbles
 
Posts: 2229
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:59 pm
Supporter of: Manchester City
My favourite player is: Silver

Re: ched evans

Postby Im_Spartacus » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:14 pm

Mase wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:Surely the point though is that whilst Evans who did something we've all (and many women too) have done, it seems that few who have read around the circumstances around the case actually believes she was incapable of giving consent. It's perhaps too early to judge given there's a retrial on the way, but if he's found not guilty, then does she not deserve the price she has paid for crying wolf?

I get where you're both coming from, it's ruined two lives as it turns out - but from what I understand, stupidity isn't a crime as yet, whilst lying under oath is.


I think that's what really hits home - it could literally happen to anyone that goes home with a girl/lad after a night out and then cries wolf. Anyone's life can be ruined.


Happened to a mate of mine last year, girl said he dragged her into a taxi, went to his house then he dragged her by her hair into his house and raped her. He spent over a year on bail whilst the police fucked and fannied about 'investigating' it. Despite the landlord of the pub stating they left together happily and werent pissed, taxi drivers witness statement said she was fine when in/she left the taxi, and a glass of wine in the living room with her lipstick on it, The presumption was of guilt from day 1, and all evidence my mate provided, including text messages after the event and leads to her friends who she admitted making it up to, yet it still dragged on for over a year before his brief got the police to drop the case due to abuse of process or something (for taking too long to charge him)

Lost his job, access to his kids and basically totally ruined him and his life turned into a car crash. Not just the girl at fault but the police for taking so long to drop the charges when they had all the evidence they needed to dismiss the case from day 1. Turns out the girl admitted to a friend that she got nervous as she realised her boyfriends dad lived on the same street, so decided to make the story up to her boyfriend just in case she had been seen leaving the house.

Not a fucking thing happened to the girl.

Now there are many differences in the two cases (not least that my mate didn't even have sex), but it really seems that in these types of cases the police are very quick to presume guilt despite the many warning signs that the lady isn't being entirely honest.
Image
Im_Spartacus
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Denis Law's Backheel
 
Posts: 9497
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Dubai
Supporter of: Breasts

Re: ched evans

Postby patrickblue » Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:48 pm

In fairness Sparty, in the case I mentioned earlier where I ended up as a witness, the police moved heaven and earth to prosecute the girl once they knew she was lying. And it didn't take them that long to drop the rape case, only about a month or so.
A lot of the problem is that they name the accused, while giving anonymity to the alleged victim. As you say, the accused's life is totally fucked before anything else happens. They should both have anonymity until conviction, and if found not guilty they should stay anonymous.

Makes a mockery of innocent until proved guilty.
[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7qDYcso3azifQVyg/html5[/img]
User avatar
patrickblue
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Shaun Goater's 103 Goals
 
Posts: 7132
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: Newbury Berks
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: The one and only Goat

Re: ched evans

Postby kinsey » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:06 pm

patrickblue wrote:In fairness Sparty, in the case I mentioned earlier where I ended up as a witness, the police moved heaven and earth to prosecute the girl once they knew she was lying. And it didn't take them that long to drop the rape case, only about a month or so.
A lot of the problem is that they name the accused, while giving anonymity to the alleged victim. As you say, the accused's life is totally fucked before anything else happens. They should both have anonymity until conviction, and if found not guilty they should stay anonymous.

Makes a mockery of innocent until proved guilty.


I always thought the same - but after all of the Yew Tree style cases over the last few years, there was a debate on Newsnight about this issue and whilst I wouldn't say that it totally converted me, I am no longer as certain as I once was.

The crux of it is that most sex offenders are recidivist and as such, if they have done something once, they are likely to have done it other times too. As such, the publicity surrounding the cases of celebrity offenders was crucial in encouraging other victims to come forward. The exposure that the accusations received meant that the power that the crime had on others was diminished and enabled them to come forward too.

Is that more important than the good name of an innocent party being ruined? I don't know! On balance, I would say that I have more sympathy with a rape victim. And I have loads of sympathy for those who are falsely accused of anything.

On any other forum, thia would feel like a totally - rather than mildly - inappropriate thing to say but thank God Evans was not a City player when this happened.
kinsey
Robinho's Step Over
 
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:59 pm

Re: ched evans

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:26 am

Interesting debate, there was a teenage lad in my area going back about ten years now that hung himself after being falsely accused of rape. He had slept with his mate's girlfriend, she accused him of rape, as a result most of his mates blanked him and the pressure of the whole situation got too much for him and he took his own life a couple of weeks before the court case.

Her guilt following his death forced her to admit that she had made it all up.
Foreverinbluedreams
Denis Law's Backheel
 
Posts: 9224
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm
Supporter of: Euthanasia

Re: ched evans

Postby patrickblue » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:33 am

kinsey wrote:
patrickblue wrote:In fairness Sparty, in the case I mentioned earlier where I ended up as a witness, the police moved heaven and earth to prosecute the girl once they knew she was lying. And it didn't take them that long to drop the rape case, only about a month or so.
A lot of the problem is that they name the accused, while giving anonymity to the alleged victim. As you say, the accused's life is totally fucked before anything else happens. They should both have anonymity until conviction, and if found not guilty they should stay anonymous.

Makes a mockery of innocent until proved guilty.


I always thought the same - but after all of the Yew Tree style cases over the last few years, there was a debate on Newsnight about this issue and whilst I wouldn't say that it totally converted me, I am no longer as certain as I once was.

The crux of it is that most sex offenders are recidivist and as such, if they have done something once, they are likely to have done it other times too. As such, the publicity surrounding the cases of celebrity offenders was crucial in encouraging other victims to come forward. The exposure that the accusations received meant that the power that the crime had on others was diminished and enabled them to come forward too.

Is that more important than the good name of an innocent party being ruined? I don't know! On balance, I would say that I have more sympathy with a rape victim. And I have loads of sympathy for those who are falsely accused of anything.

On any other forum, thia would feel like a totally - rather than mildly - inappropriate thing to say but thank God Evans was not a City player when this happened.


While appreciating where you're coming from, I would say that the principle of innocent until proven guilty is the overriding factor. If you are going to name the accused while giving anonymity to the alleged victim, that to me says that you are presuming guilt.

The celebrity offenders thing has been somewhat unique, as it has been a huge kneejerk reaction to the establishment protecting itself for years. If the police had done(or more likely had been allowed to do) their jobs in the past it wouldn't have needed to happen.

Human nature being what it is, if the scales are tipped in favour of one side over the other, people are going to take advantage, ultimately leading back to the situation we're trying to get away from, namely allegations not being taken seriously. In my view, by making it appear that there are no consequences to making false allegations totally trivialises real rape victims, as well as destroying the lives of the falsely accused.
[img]https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7qDYcso3azifQVyg/html5[/img]
User avatar
patrickblue
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Shaun Goater's 103 Goals
 
Posts: 7132
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:49 pm
Location: Newbury Berks
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: The one and only Goat

Re: ched evans

Postby DoomMerchant » Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:48 pm

Mase wrote:
kinsey wrote:
Gringo Twatburger wrote:
Mase wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:Surely the point though is that whilst Evans who did something we've all (and many women too) have done, it seems that few who have read around the circumstances around the case actually believes she was incapable of giving consent. It's perhaps too early to judge given there's a retrial on the way, but if he's found not guilty, then does she not deserve the price she has paid for crying wolf?

I get where you're both coming from, it's ruined two lives as it turns out - but from what I understand, stupidity isn't a crime as yet, whilst lying under oath is.


I think that's what really hits home - it could literally happen to anyone that goes home with a girl/lad after a night out and then cries wolf. Anyone's life can be ruined.


So if you're hanging out with a girl who takes you back to her hotel room when you're completely wankered and she gets on top of you and starts fucking you and you drift in and out of consciousness while that's happening and unbeknownst to you she's called me over and I pop in and decide I can join in and slide my cock in your ass for a bit just cuz yknow we're all having fun --and it seems like me asking you if I could dip my wick in you was met with a soggy affirmation, does that change your feelings at all about her situation?

How would you feel when you piece that together the next morning? Gay? Or raped?

A little more complex than a normal night out for most decent fuckers of any gender believe dude.

Cheers


Excellent analogy!

This is such a difficult case in so many ways and why rape is so so frequently such a difficult crime to prosecute.

The truth is, the only person who knows the truth of this is her. It is my belief that in those circumstances, even Evans was taking a guess - and he deserves condemnation for that recklessness, regardless of the truth of her intentions.


Not really an 'excellent' analogy is it when that isn't what was claimed.

A far as I'm aware the 'victim' never claimed she'd passed out, rather she 'couldn't remember consenting to sex'. Slightly different to have sex with someone whilst they're passed out than have sex with someone that is 'too drunk to remember'.

The hotel porter provided an account where he heard them having sex. So she definitely wasn't passed out. Read the facts of the case before we go on please.


you could look up the definition of analogy once your'e finished rubbing one out, squishmuffin.

cheers
viVa el ciTy!

"All things considered, there's absolutely no escape from this hellish situation. I'm prepared to take the coward's way out if you are. It's reincarnation or nothing." -- Gideon Stargrave

Image
User avatar
DoomMerchant
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Pellegrini's Hoodie
 
Posts: 22332
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:46 pm
Location: Orlando, FL
Supporter of: MCFC. OK.
My favourite player is: The Game

Re: ched evans

Postby CTID Hants » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:43 pm

Cleared of Rape

Hope he can get his life back on track now
Born A Blue

Image
User avatar
CTID Hants
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Pablo Zabaleta's Manc Accent
 
Posts: 13351
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:33 pm
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire

Re: ched evans

Postby Dubciteh » Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:55 pm

Delighted was never guilty in the first place shame hes even had a day of his life wasted on this nonsense
derby day the scores were level,
then the goat was fed by neville,
silly boy should know for sure,
feed the goat and he will score!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
Dubciteh
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
Denis Tueart's Overhead
 
Posts: 8337
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:49 am
Location: Dublin
Supporter of: CTID
My favourite player is: Merlin

Re: ched evans

Postby Wonderwall » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:27 pm

I hope he has a massive law suit waiting with his lawyers to hammer the daily mail with. they have constantly called him a rapist and even and paedo. I have he shuts them down and Jessica Ennis offers to get her stand name changed to his name. ;-)
User avatar
Wonderwall
Colin Bell's Football Brain
 
Posts: 28906
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:58 pm
Location: Sale
Supporter of: Gods own team

Re: ched evans

Postby PeterParker » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:45 pm

What about the ”victim”?

Any charges towards that?
Image
User avatar
PeterParker
Roberto Mancini's Scarf
 
Posts: 21234
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:36 pm
Location: Bucharest
Supporter of: The Blue Moon blues
My favourite player is: King Mike

Re: ched evans

Postby Cocacolajojo » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:56 pm

PeterParker wrote:What about the ”victim”?

Any charges towards that?


If I'm understanding everything correctly they got evans off from two witnesses claiming that she had slept with men and not remembered it afterwards. It does not seem there's any proof besides these statements that she had lied which was the rumour on here.
User avatar
Cocacolajojo
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
De Jong's Tackle
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:18 am
Location: Umeå
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: Agüero

Re: ched evans

Postby Cocacolajojo » Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:00 pm

Other men
User avatar
Cocacolajojo
Donated to the site
Donated to the site
De Jong's Tackle
 
Posts: 1187
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:18 am
Location: Umeå
Supporter of: City
My favourite player is: Agüero

PreviousNext

Return to The Maine Football forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mase, MIAMCFC, rosbif cuisson 'bleu' and 320 guests