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Have been more detrimental in our away games this season than Yaya. Nacho came on and did twice as much as those 2 combined. At least one of them needs to be dropped away from home. Either play with Raheem and Navas on wings and one of Dave/Kev off Kün or fuck em both off and play Nacho with Kün

maybe its the combination of them together thats causing them both to be poor. id be interested in maybe seeing the Sterling-Silva-Navas trio that worked so well prior to Kevin's arrival.

phips wrote:maybe its the combination of them together thats causing them both to be poor. id be interested in maybe seeing the Sterling-Silva-Navas trio that worked so well prior to Kevin's arrival.

I would be and all. As great as Kev has been individually, I think it's possible he has fucked up the balance of our team. Well, Pellers has for shoehorning him and Dave in one team really, so not Kevs fault entirely. Although if he does get shoehorned in, he needs to grow a fucking pair

A lot of our best football this season has been when we've had Navas and Sterling on the wings. Neither might be as technically good as Yaya, Silva or KDB but we have a better shape when they both play.

Pellegrini likes to play what he thinks are his best players, and not always what is the best team. We had a similar issue with Nasri/Silva - sometimes it's better to play just 1 and not both.

KDB looks more of a flat track bully with each passing week.

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:KDB looks more of a flat track bully with each passing week.

This.

We'll need one at times, but it isn't away from home against top half teams when the pressure is on. Silva I know can do that. Sterling and navas for me too.

Oh and the commontator said kdb has been involved in every single game since he arrived. He even said early he couldn't play every match at high quality. Give the lad a rest I say.

There is a bit of he old benarbia/berkovic about these 2 for sure, but I think when looking at this you also need to take into account yaya.

Playing all 3 together (esp away from home) doesn't seem to be working at all. I do think you can play kev and silva as part of a 3 behind Kun but only if yaya is not part of a 2 behind them.

aaron bond wrote:A lot of our best football this season has been when we've had Navas and Sterling on the wings. Neither might be as technically good as Yaya, Silva or KDB but we have a better shape when they both play.

Pellegrini likes to play what he thinks are his best players, and not always what is the best team. We had a similar issue with Nasri/Silva - sometimes it's better to play just 1 and not both.

On the Pellegrini front where wanting to play what he thinks are his best players, I have a different theory on that - though it is just a theory. He's very much a 442 man, and many see him as stubborn. So why does he seldom play 442 nowadays?

I think he's been 'encouraged' by the ex barca boys upstairs to play a different formation and you could argue with some justification - last season 442 stopped working as well for us and when we reverted to playing 1 up top towards the end of the season we won 6 on the bounce.

With that in mind KDB and sterling joined in the summer which in essence should fit in well with the new formation 4-2-3-1 allowing some flexibility as both can switch to central and wide positions, Sterling can also play a striking role. But its unlikely if you spend nearly £100m on those two that you will then play 442 every week (though I wish we played it more often than we do). So I think Pellers is operating under certain restrictions, it may be we are already adopting Pep's way - if this is the case it must be very frustrating for Pellers.

I would say that in 4-2-3-1 the 2 would provide stronger protection to the back 4 if it consisted of 2 from Delph or the 2 Ferns (not Yaya), though even that wouldn't have meant Otamendi's error would have been avoided . Yesterday I thought Silva looked largely ineffective, which is strange as you would have thought the formation should suit him as much as anybody.

It seems that there is less freedom in our attacking play. Players aren't showing up in unexpected areas by swapping sides. The tricks and flicks aren't there.

Payet showed us what's missing from our play.

In short, the forwards need to start having fun again.

They can't play together away from home. Just like Yaya as part of a two man midfield. Some things just don't work no matter how much you want them to. Playing KDB and Silva together away is one of these things

Spurge wrote:

aaron bond wrote:A lot of our best football this season has been when we've had Navas and Sterling on the wings. Neither might be as technically good as Yaya, Silva or KDB but we have a better shape when they both play.

Pellegrini likes to play what he thinks are his best players, and not always what is the best team. We had a similar issue with Nasri/Silva - sometimes it's better to play just 1 and not both.

On the Pellegrini front where wanting to play what he thinks are his best players, I have a different theory on that - though it is just a theory. He's very much a 442 man, and many see him as stubborn. So why does he seldom play 442 nowadays?

I think he's been 'encouraged' by the ex barca boys upstairs to play a different formation and you could argue with some justification - last season 442 stopped working as well for us and when we reverted to playing 1 up top towards the end of the season we won 6 on the bounce.

With that in mind KDB and sterling joined in the summer which in essence should fit in well with the new formation 4-2-3-1 allowing some flexibility as both can switch to central and wide positions, Sterling can also play a striking role. But its unlikely if you spend nearly £100m on those two that you will then play 442 every week (though I wish we played it more often than we do). So I think Pellers is operating under certain restrictions, it may be we are already adopting Pep's way - if this is the case it must be very frustrating for Pellers.

I would say that in 4-2-3-1 the 2 would provide stronger protection to the back 4 if it consisted of 2 from Delph or the 2 Ferns (not Yaya), though even that wouldn't have meant Otamendi's error would have been avoided . Yesterday I thought Silva looked largely ineffective, which is strange as you would have thought the formation should suit him as much as anybody.

I agree with you.

4-4-2 was Pellegrini's preferred formation for a long time. With Aguero and Nacho appearing to link up well in the few games they played together, I hope he will give them a run of games together.

But the Yaya cannot be one of the 2 centre midfielders.

It's needs to be Delph and Fern1, or Fern2 if one of them isn't fit. Many teams in the league play 3 centre midfielders, or at least 2 hardworking midfielders. Going into a match with just 1 plus Yaya puts us at an immediate disadvantage.

Even if we play 4-2-3-1, Yaya cannot be one of the 2. He's incapable of/unwilling to do the full box to box midfield job required. Opposition sides are increasingly aware this, as well as the media. Our management needs to as well.

Fidel Castro wrote:Have been more detrimental in our away games this season than Yaya. Nacho came on and did twice as much as those 2 combined. At least one of them needs to be dropped away from home. Either play with Raheem and Navas on wings and one of Dave/Kev off Kün or fuck em both off and play Nacho with Kün

Thanks for pointing this out on here. Completely agree. These two get a pass every week. They were turd yesterday and should have been removed at 60 mins. Why pelligrini persists when everyone can see they're having a stinker is beyond me.

All this 'Yaya can't be part of a midfield two' is being passed as accepted wisdom.
So who is gonna make up this two? Because anybody who says Fernando is pissed or stupid.
I've yet to see this defensive screen make us look one iota safer at the back. In fact I think it makes us even more vulnerable to the counter attack.
I'd be prepared to see if Fern1 and Delph work now that Fabian is looking healthier.
Yaya was not the problem yesterday. KDB and the Sterling later were both very flakey again.

We started the season with Sterling and Navas on the touchline and never cutting in. It was very old fashioned but created huge amounts of room for Silva and gave good protection to the full backs. When KDB arrived, we slotted him in as well and it just doesn't work, especially away from home. Sterling seems to carry the can as far as Pellegrini is concerned and is the one dropped or subbed yet we don't play to his strengths.

There's enough players with enough quality to allow us to rotate and to have real options on the bench. Use Navas and Sterling to push defenders back or to protect ours against quick wingers, use Silva and/or KDB to open defences.

And Yaya falls into the same group - he needs to be the one behind the striker(s), which is where he made the difference under Mancini and still does today, but that means he's probably fighting sliva and KDB for his place

phips wrote:maybe its the combination of them together thats causing them both to be poor. id be interested in maybe seeing the Sterling-Silva-Navas trio that worked so well prior to Kevin's arrival.

this. been banging on about this for months, but kev's early stats blinded everyone

After watching The Brown disappear in big games I have begun to wonder about Maureen's assertions that his character is suspect. Could be something in it.

Pretty Boy Lee wrote:

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:KDB looks more of a flat track bully with each passing week.

This.

We'll need one at times, but it isn't away from home against top half teams when the pressure is on. Silva I know can do that. Sterling and navas for me too.

Pretty Boy Lee wrote:Oh and the commontator said kdb has been involved in every single game since he arrived. He even said early he couldn't play every match at high quality. Give the lad a rest I say.

If I was the manager I would rest/bench KDB for away games for now, no doubt.

The benefit of playing Sterling and Navas is the balance it brings to the team as has been said but it's also their defensive qualities and pace that helps a lot as well. Both help out defensively much better than either KDB or Silva.

We have the numbers and quality in midfield to be able to rotate the squad and give the likes of Yaya/Silva especially the rests they need but we don't seem to do it or at least not well. Iheanacho for me has been massively underused. Didn't Pellers say at some point that he isn't a lone front man type player? He is probably right so he can and should have been used as anything from a wide player in a front 3 to a number 10 second striker role.

Yesterday he came on and seemed to sit behind Kun and immediately had an impact finding space and linking well. It's just crazy to see him on the bench when out of form players get picked because of their reputation.

Douglas Higginbottom wrote:The benefit of playing Sterling and Navas is the balance it brings to the team as has been said but it's also their defensive qualities and pace that helps a lot as well. Both help out defensively much better than either KDB or Silva.

We have the numbers and quality in midfield to be able to rotate the squad and give the likes of Yaya/Silva especially the rests they need but we don't seem to do it or at least not well. Iheanacho for me has been massively underused. Didn't Pellers say at some point that he isn't a lone front man type player? He is probably right so he can and should have been used as anything from a wide player in a front 3 to a number 10 second striker role.

Yesterday he came on and seemed to sit behind Kun and immediately had an impact finding space and linking well. It's just crazy to see him on the bench when out of form players get picked because of their reputation.

Kelechi's introduction definitely won us the point. Interesting to see how much space he found himself in between the lines, this has always been Silva's speciality yet yesterday he was anonymous, is it a case of Silva being more closely marked or does he just not have it in him anymore to find that space?