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Stonewall penalty, no doubt. Alan Brazil and even the City-hating Ray Wilkins have confirmed the neutral view - stonewall penalty. Even Manuel Pellegrini was moved to comment, which is unheard of. Coming on the back of the Navas incident at Goodison it is hard to take. But the boys did put in the effort, they did attack constantly and we can only go and stuff Palace in revenge, still only 3 points adrift of the top.

So - there are only 3 possible explanations. Incompetence, corruption or inherent anti-city bias in some referees. Thoughts?

I'm torn between incompetence and bias.

Don't forget the Aguero incident at Leicester either, not as blatant as last night but that's another potential two points down the drain because of a big call not going our way.

the refs aren't cheats, they are just shit

I'm too sceptical, I think it's part of a formal arrangement to maintain the status quo for 'interested parties'. I can't believe a league as rich as ours doesn't try to control the outcome. I think we win in spite of this which makes it sweeter. Imagine being in a level playing field.

Think he is the classic PL referee. Basically average.

Made mistakes both ways, missed Toure foul a yard outside box, gave a corner, didn't book Barry for shirt pulling or Besic for numerous fouls, then our penalty shouts. He's not alone, the standard of refs is the worst it's ever been. Said it before, we bring in foreign players & managers because they are the best, yet we carry on with poor standard of referee's. Oh & lets not forget the 4th officials, they're not that good either.

Why don't they ever suffer the consequences of their errors or are the assessors just as bad as them?

shortagain wrote:Think he is the classic PL referee. Basically average.

Made mistakes both ways, missed Toure foul a yard outside box, gave a corner, didn't book Barry for shirt pulling or Besic for numerous fouls, then our penalty shouts. He's not alone, the standard of refs is the worst it's ever been. Said it before, we bring in foreign players & managers because they are the best, yet we carry on with poor standard of referee's. Oh & lets not forget the 4th officials, they're not that good either.

Why don't they ever suffer the consequences of their errors or are the assessors just as bad as them?

I was sure he played an advantage on the Toure foul as it led to Lukaku having a clear sighter on goal just like he played advantage for Aguero when Mori was dragging him back by both shoulders in the penalty area moments before but managed to wriggle free and get a shot away.

The one that I thought was in our favour was Otamendi going through someone ( can't remember who ) as they went for a header, could've been yellow. The Barry one was ridiculous, as blatant a pull back as you'll see when we were in a good attacking position, I wouldn't mind but Barry could've been booked for a blatant hand ball which stopped our counter early doors, we got a throw in.

Incompetence/rub of the green.

Cock up rather than conspiracy.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

shortagain wrote:Think he is the classic PL referee. Basically average.

Made mistakes both ways, missed Toure foul a yard outside box, gave a corner, didn't book Barry for shirt pulling or Besic for numerous fouls, then our penalty shouts. He's not alone, the standard of refs is the worst it's ever been. Said it before, we bring in foreign players & managers because they are the best, yet we carry on with poor standard of referee's. Oh & lets not forget the 4th officials, they're not that good either.

Why don't they ever suffer the consequences of their errors or are the assessors just as bad as them?

I was sure he played an advantage on the Toure foul as it led to Lukaku having a clear sighter on goal just like he played advantage for Aguero when Mori was dragging him back by both shoulders in the penalty area moments before but managed to wriggle free and get a shot away.

The one that I thought was in our favour was Otamendi going through someone ( can't remember who ) as they went for a header, could've been yellow. The Barry one was ridiculous, as blatant a pull back as you'll see when we were in a good attacking position, I wouldn't mind but Barry could've been booked for a blatant hand ball which stopped our counter early doors, we got a throw in.

I kind of go along with this. I think we see totally incompetent refereeing week in week out, not just in our games. I'm loathe to think it's orchestrated corruption on a grand scale, although I accept the argument of 'why not?'.
I just think on the balance of things the anti-City bias that is all permeating comes to the surface in games and is having a negative affect on results.

I think it's just incompetence. Sterling of course has a reputation as a diver so he was scared to give it.

If he didn't go down so softly on the other occasions we may have got the call.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

shortagain wrote:Think he is the classic PL referee. Basically average.

Made mistakes both ways, missed Toure foul a yard outside box, gave a corner, didn't book Barry for shirt pulling or Besic for numerous fouls, then our penalty shouts. He's not alone, the standard of refs is the worst it's ever been. Said it before, we bring in foreign players & managers because they are the best, yet we carry on with poor standard of referee's. Oh & lets not forget the 4th officials, they're not that good either.

Why don't they ever suffer the consequences of their errors or are the assessors just as bad as them?

I was sure he played an advantage on the Toure foul as it led to Lukaku having a clear sighter on goal just like he played advantage for Aguero when Mori was dragging him back by both shoulders in the penalty area moments before but managed to wriggle free and get a shot away.

The one that I thought was in our favour was Otamendi going through someone ( can't remember who ) as they went for a header, could've been yellow. The Barry one was ridiculous, as blatant a pull back as you'll see when we were in a good attacking position, I wouldn't mind but Barry could've been booked for a blatant hand ball which stopped our counter early doors, we got a throw in.

On the Toure foul, he didn't signal he was playing advantage for Lukaku, but he was challenged about it by a couple of Everton players and he looked like he was explaining to them that he played advantage. Basically he realised he fucked up and tried to get away with it.

Robert Madley is the worst ref closely followed by that twat Roger East.

On the actual topic of incompetence, corruption or bias, I would say that all 3 are happening. Most of the refs are incompetent, most are biased either by their support of a team or experiences they have had during their career. The corruption one will come out one day, it happens too often to be sheer coincidence.

And if the crowd had of hung around for the full game they might have been able to put more pressure on the ref.

Ees important

dazby wrote:I think it's just incompetence. Sterling of course has a reputation as a diver so he was scared to give it.

If he didn't go down so softly on the other occasions we may have got the call.

Did he have that rep at Liverpool? Genuine question.

The Maine Man wrote:I'm too sceptical, I think it's part of a formal arrangement to maintain the status quo for 'interested parties'. I can't believe a league as rich as ours doesn't try to control the outcome. I think we win in spite of this which makes it sweeter. Imagine being in a level playing field.

Absolutely this. There are vested interests involved. They get their orders.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

dazby wrote:I think it's just incompetence. Sterling of course has a reputation as a diver so he was scared to give it.

If he didn't go down so softly on the other occasions we may have got the call.

Did he have that rep at Liverpool? Genuine question.

I also think the way the club is portrayed means that we get no favours either. Yes, the media affects the decisions of the referees.

How can it be 'incompetence' when some of these appeals are that obvious that the only explanation is cheating.

Even on the Everton forums most admit it should have been a penalty.

I agree with Wonderwall it's not restricted to one category. All 3 exist.

Official's will not receive widespread condemnation from the football community for not awarding a penalty to us, because most in football want to see us fail. It's too easy for them to ignore it.

I would like the club to speak to the head of the officials, and discuss the frequency of blatant match changing decisions, not given.

Hopefully the corruption in English football will be investigated sometime soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

If it was incompetence, then we would be getting at least an almost even share of the spoils.

Here's a genuine question for you all - when was the last time we gained points because a referee handed them to us?

dazby wrote:And if the crowd had of hung around for the full game they might have been able to put more pressure on the ref.

Ees important

We made more noise than you did , who the fuck can hear you in Australia ffs . Yet another stupid comment ! Don't know whether your taking the piss or just totally fucking dumb ? Oh and worst traffic chaos Manchester has ever seen last night , total gridlock !!!! everyone eventually turned up though but then got horrendously delayed getting home aswell !!! Plank !!!

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:

The Maine Man wrote:I'm too sceptical, I think it's part of a formal arrangement to maintain the status quo for 'interested parties'. I can't believe a league as rich as ours doesn't try to control the outcome. I think we win in spite of this which makes it sweeter. Imagine being in a level playing field.

Absolutely this. There are vested interests involved. They get their orders.

They don't get 'orders', it's far more sinister than that.

What does happen, and what has been confirmed by referee after referee in recent years, is the way their careers are managed allows the person or persons in control of PGMOL to manipulate outcomes by the award or removal of certain games/appointments which can have a massive impact on the individuals' career.

In any walk of life you come to learn that there are two sets of rules of conduct which impacts your livelihood. The first set of rules are those which are explicit which are learned by education and coaching and are the same for everyone - you don't have a choice about following these rules. The second set of rules are those which are never spoken, but rather implied by the actions of senior leaders - eg, you see that if people around you perform or behave in a certain way, they are rewarded - then you are likely to ultimately fall in line with that to advance your own career. Simple human nature.

The trick is pretty much the oldest one in the organizational psychology book, and what one must remember is that the referees are victims in the manipulation by forces much further up the food chain.

Plain Speaking wrote:Even on the Everton forums most admit it should have been a penalty.

I agree with Wonderwall it's not restricted to one category. All 3 exist.

Official's will not receive widespread condemnation from the football community for not awarding a penalty to us, because most in football want to see us fail. It's too easy for them to ignore it.

I would like the club to speak to the head of the officials, and discuss the frequency of blatant match changing decisions, not given.

Hopefully the corruption in English football will be investigated sometime soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

I think this is the nub of it and coupled with Sparticus's view of it above, I think this is why it points to the overall perception of City that is put out there, the bias as such, being accepted as ok. this bias is driven by an agenda of those that have vested interests.
It permeates down to the playing field and whether it's a referee's livelihood at stake or other factors, it is having an effect on decisions and results. The bias in the media and the audience deems this as acceptable and puts their own spin on why, which keeps the whole agenda rolling.
To say it's direct referee corruption on a grand scale is less likely in my opinion.
The whole thing is no less sinister, though. It indicates to me that football is no more than a business and is not a sport at professional level and until our crowd win at administration and boardroom level and start to have control at media level, then we are not going to see a change.
Change is in the air though. Look at FIFA and UEFA. Who's next the FA?