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I think in the long term we'll see clubs adopt a policy on homophobia similar to those on racism, but for it to happen we need gay players (both male and female) to declare themselves - which I'm guessing is far easier for me to say than for the players concerned to do.

So what happened with this then? weren't they supposed to have come out now?

Andre Gray was one

Mase wrote:Andre Gray was one

jesus christ you're right.

Mase wrote:Andre Gray was one

they're everywhere

Dameerto wrote:I think in the long term we'll see clubs adopt a policy on homophobia similar to those on racism, but for it to happen we need gay players (both male and female) to declare themselves - which I'm guessing is far easier for me to say than for the players concerned to do.

I don't know mate. It mystifies me why people feel the need to 'declare', 'come out' or say anything about their sexuality.

I couldn't care less to honest - isn't that the way it should be?

john@staustell wrote:

Dameerto wrote:I think in the long term we'll see clubs adopt a policy on homophobia similar to those on racism, but for it to happen we need gay players (both male and female) to declare themselves - which I'm guessing is far easier for me to say than for the players concerned to do.

I don't know mate. It mystifies me why people feel the need to 'declare', 'come out' or say anything about their sexuality.

I couldn't care less to honest - isn't that the way it should be?

Maybe 'people feel the need' to not having to hide a major part of their life? You must live in cuckoo land if you think a gay footballer could just go out & be seen with his partner in the same way a straight footballer does with his girlfriend or wife. That alone equals a de facto declaration/coming out without speaking a single word or addressing anyone in particular.

If you struggle to comprehend that, life on planet earth must be a real mystery to you in general.

I Just Blue Myself wrote:

john@staustell wrote:

Dameerto wrote:I think in the long term we'll see clubs adopt a policy on homophobia similar to those on racism, but for it to happen we need gay players (both male and female) to declare themselves - which I'm guessing is far easier for me to say than for the players concerned to do.

I don't know mate. It mystifies me why people feel the need to 'declare', 'come out' or say anything about their sexuality.

I couldn't care less to honest - isn't that the way it should be?

Maybe 'people feel the need' to not having to hide a major part of their life? You must live in cuckoo land if you think a gay footballer could just go out & be seen with his partner in the same way a straight footballer does with his girlfriend or wife. That alone equals a de facto declaration/coming out without speaking a single word or addressing anyone in particular.

If you struggle to comprehend that, life on planet earth must be a real mystery to you in general.

I don't think John was struggling to comprehend at all. He was stating how he sees it and the way it should be. I agree with him, I couldn't care less about a footballers sexuality, it has nothing to do with how he plays the game.

Wonderwall wrote:

I Just Blue Myself wrote:

john@staustell wrote:

Dameerto wrote:I think in the long term we'll see clubs adopt a policy on homophobia similar to those on racism, but for it to happen we need gay players (both male and female) to declare themselves - which I'm guessing is far easier for me to say than for the players concerned to do.

I don't know mate. It mystifies me why people feel the need to 'declare', 'come out' or say anything about their sexuality.

I couldn't care less to honest - isn't that the way it should be?

Maybe 'people feel the need' to not having to hide a major part of their life? You must live in cuckoo land if you think a gay footballer could just go out & be seen with his partner in the same way a straight footballer does with his girlfriend or wife. That alone equals a de facto declaration/coming out without speaking a single word or addressing anyone in particular.

If you struggle to comprehend that, life on planet earth must be a real mystery to you in general.

I don't think John was struggling to comprehend at all. He was stating how he sees it and the way it should be. I agree with him, I couldn't care less about a footballers sexuality, it has nothing to do with how he plays the game.

Of course it shouldn't be an issue, but unfortunately it is. It's pretty ignorant to suggest otherwise.

john@staustell wrote:

Dameerto wrote:I think in the long term we'll see clubs adopt a policy on homophobia similar to those on racism, but for it to happen we need gay players (both male and female) to declare themselves - which I'm guessing is far easier for me to say than for the players concerned to do.

I don't know mate. It mystifies me why people feel the need to 'declare', 'come out' or say anything about their sexuality.

I couldn't care less to honest - isn't that the way it should be?

I couldn't care less either. But given how football and society is and the so called stigma attached to being gay and in football, not to mention the probably abuse opposition fans would shout. It would be interesting and I guess progress forward if these players did come out and said they don't give a fuck.

Gringo Twatburger wrote:

Mase wrote:

Feed The Goat wrote:Weren't city fans singing oshea takes it up the arse a few years back and then when Giggs came on in tights the chant was here comes another one. And that was at the Ethiad I can guarantee whoever it is as an away player will get the same treatment. I don't know why but they will

I think it was wolf whistles when Giggs came on in tights.

I think if it's a rag the line gets further and further away. I'd probably chant anything as long as it didn't involve the colour of someone's skin. That's me being honest.

I tend to know that i have certain prejudices, and we all do so let's just be honest and not bullshit about it, and i fight hard as hell to make sure they don't inform or colour, punintentionally, any personal interaction i have so that i can judge people on merit and what they truly deserve, positively or negatively.

Those prejudices that i hold are borne of experience in life, but they don't mean that every person of a certain culture or race or nationality fits the profile even if many in my experience do, or did, in a certain time or certain locale.

I'll given an example since we're all friends here....Filipinos. Are they the laziest, trying to get over community of people in the world? Maybe not, but I wouldn't know that if i based it on the Filipinos who worked with me, for me or were around me in the SF Bay Area. And is their language the worst in the world? Maybe not, but...it's...fucking...horrific. And the sound of their English? The blub-blub-blub tones of both tagalog and Filipino English makes me want to stab myself in the ears. And the singing? And the basketball tho they are all midgets? And the fried fucking food? Could i go on about gaudy, Catholic, money-obsessed/gold digging, electronics-obsessed bullshit? A: Yes. I could.

Anyway, yes, i have some close Filipino friends. And yes they probably have 8 fucking televisions in their goddam house. And no i don't judge individuals by the broad strokes i painted above, tho in my very core when i write what i wrote above i'm not trying to be "funny" just trying to show that i do have these feelings at some level, and i realize that they cannot be universally applied to every individual you met in life.

That's the definition of not being a prejudiced, racist, homophobic asshole. You don't let the stupid shit that you think you might believe, or that your dad taught you or that 3 fucktards who worked in some office building with you when you were 25 dictate your world view. You take people as individuals and treat them with respect and fairness and give them what they earn, and expect the same in return from them.

Mabuhay.

Gringo,
that is quite a refreshingly honest self appraisal. We all have our prejudices. I think it is important that we recognise our own faults regardless of whether it changes the way we feel or not. It keeps most of us in check, when we know it is not necessarily rational on our part.
Not everyone looks so closely introspectively though and I think most of us get lost in group/mob mentality when caught up in the fervour of a football match.
People, and we're all guilty, chant stuff at games that would not be deemed acceptable in society, anywhere else. We are quite willing to use any weapon on our armoury to give our team the edge. If that means picking on any weakness we can find in the opposing team, we do it.
Is it right. No. definitely not if you are talking about something as blatant as racism or homophobia. But what about bullying?

I 'm not going to condone any of it because one is as bad as the other. But is it ok for a nationwide bullying campaign in all media against a player, that then continues at every ground in the country from all opposing fans. And what if this was a young player of 19-21 years old and his career was being put at jeopardy and his confidence being crushed. Would it be justified for the good of our side.
Sounds familiar doesn't it. Homophobia is a problem. You can understand why players would not want to come out, but it's not the only problem that rears it's head on the terraces(if there were any left).
People behave terribly in a crowd because they relinquish their personal resposibilities. It's the anonymity that makes them feel ok about doing things they wouldn't do face to face.

I like the idea of a City crowd cheering on an openly gay opponent, but in all honesty how can you organise that. You cannot decide someone else's idea of morality for them. It would have to start with individual choice on the terrace (see above). The individual decision to do what's right. You get a group clapping then and a ripple affect can happen as more and more get confidence to do what's right.

Anyway nice honest post gringo. You've been making quite a few calm sensible scribblings recently. Ae you sure you're alright?

john@staustell wrote:

Dameerto wrote:I think in the long term we'll see clubs adopt a policy on homophobia similar to those on racism, but for it to happen we need gay players (both male and female) to declare themselves - which I'm guessing is far easier for me to say than for the players concerned to do.

I don't know mate. It mystifies me why people feel the need to 'declare', 'come out' or say anything about their sexuality.

I couldn't care less to honest - isn't that the way it should be?

You're in a minority though, as am I. (In the football world anyway). It shouldn't matter that the US president was black either, or our prime minister is female, but we don't live in an ideal world.
If someone is in their place of work and is being ridiculed on the grounds of their sexuality then it becomes an issue for their employer to fix, which means a club policy and robust stewarding.

iwasthere2012 wrote:

Gringo Twatburger wrote:

Mase wrote:

Feed The Goat wrote:Weren't city fans singing oshea takes it up the arse a few years back and then when Giggs came on in tights the chant was here comes another one. And that was at the Ethiad I can guarantee whoever it is as an away player will get the same treatment. I don't know why but they will

I think it was wolf whistles when Giggs came on in tights.

I think if it's a rag the line gets further and further away. I'd probably chant anything as long as it didn't involve the colour of someone's skin. That's me being honest.

I tend to know that i have certain prejudices, and we all do so let's just be honest and not bullshit about it, and i fight hard as hell to make sure they don't inform or colour, punintentionally, any personal interaction i have so that i can judge people on merit and what they truly deserve, positively or negatively.

Those prejudices that i hold are borne of experience in life, but they don't mean that every person of a certain culture or race or nationality fits the profile even if many in my experience do, or did, in a certain time or certain locale.

I'll given an example since we're all friends here....Filipinos. Are they the laziest, trying to get over community of people in the world? Maybe not, but I wouldn't know that if i based it on the Filipinos who worked with me, for me or were around me in the SF Bay Area. And is their language the worst in the world? Maybe not, but...it's...fucking...horrific. And the sound of their English? The blub-blub-blub tones of both tagalog and Filipino English makes me want to stab myself in the ears. And the singing? And the basketball tho they are all midgets? And the fried fucking food? Could i go on about gaudy, Catholic, money-obsessed/gold digging, electronics-obsessed bullshit? A: Yes. I could.

Anyway, yes, i have some close Filipino friends. And yes they probably have 8 fucking televisions in their goddam house. And no i don't judge individuals by the broad strokes i painted above, tho in my very core when i write what i wrote above i'm not trying to be "funny" just trying to show that i do have these feelings at some level, and i realize that they cannot be universally applied to every individual you met in life.

That's the definition of not being a prejudiced, racist, homophobic asshole. You don't let the stupid shit that you think you might believe, or that your dad taught you or that 3 fucktards who worked in some office building with you when you were 25 dictate your world view. You take people as individuals and treat them with respect and fairness and give them what they earn, and expect the same in return from them.

Mabuhay.

Gringo,
that is quite a refreshingly honest self appraisal. We all have our prejudices. I think it is important that we recognise our own faults regardless of whether it changes the way we feel or not. It keeps most of us in check, when we know it is not necessarily rational on our part.
Not everyone looks so closely introspectively though and I think most of us get lost in group/mob mentality when caught up in the fervour of a football match.
People, and we're all guilty, chant stuff at games that would not be deemed acceptable in society, anywhere else. We are quite willing to use any weapon on our armoury to give our team the edge. If that means picking on any weakness we can find in the opposing team, we do it.
Is it right. No. definitely not if you are talking about something as blatant as racism or homophobia. But what about bullying?

I 'm not going to condone any of it because one is as bad as the other. But is it ok for a nationwide bullying campaign in all media against a player, that then continues at every ground in the country from all opposing fans. And what if this was a young player of 19-21 years old and his career was being put at jeopardy and his confidence being crushed. Would it be justified for the good of our side.
Sounds familiar doesn't it. Homophobia is a problem. You can understand why players would not want to come out, but it's not the only problem that rears it's head on the terraces(if there were any left).
People behave terribly in a crowd because they relinquish their personal resposibilities. It's the anonymity that makes them feel ok about doing things they wouldn't do face to face.

I like the idea of a City crowd cheering on an openly gay opponent, but in all honesty how can you organise that. You cannot decide someone else's idea of morality for them. It would have to start with individual choice on the terrace (see above). The individual decision to do what's right. You get a group clapping then and a ripple affect can happen as more and more get confidence to do what's right.

Anyway nice honest post gringo. You've been making quite a few calm sensible scribblings recently. Ae you sure you're alright?

The SF Bay area is that a typo ! And if not did you ever see Carl Malden ?

Sadly, as a society, we are a long way off accepting our elite sportspeople, both male and female, are gay. Heaven knows why that is. It doesn't happen in other walks of life. You wouldn't care less if your doctor or dentist or postman or local shopkeeper or bar tender or indeed any of your colleagues were gay. It just doesn't matter.

Can you imagine the scenes if say a Man U player came out as gay and played at the Etihad. Are people on here honestly saying that wouldn't join in with homophobic chanting when it started? Or would people have the courage to stand up to these people and say no?

That IMO is why you will not get a high profile player coming out as gay. Look at the abuse Raheem has got for being a bit shit and buying his Mum a dodgy sink. Jesus imagine the scenes if someone was gay. Not worth the harassment and intrusion.

Sister of fu wrote:Can you imagine the scenes if say a Man U player came out as gay and played at the Etihad. Are people on here honestly saying that wouldn't join in with homophobic chanting when it started? Or would people have the courage to stand up to these people and say no?

That IMO is why you will not get a high profile player coming out as gay. Look at the abuse Raheem has got for being a bit shit and buying his Mum a dodgy sink. Jesus imagine the scenes if someone was gay. Not worth the harassment and intrusion.

In my opinion we could do worse than get some example from the professional footballers themselves.
I have the impression that in the past, say back in Fashanu's day, it would have been equally unbearable amongst his peers.
In this day and age you would think a gay footballer would have the support of his teammates.
If a teammate was abused by the crowd or the opposition would they have the courage to report it to the ref and refuse to play. I doubt it. Same goes for racism and correct me if Im wrong but didn't something like that happen to one of Vieira's academy teams.
Then you have the bullying of Sterling which really took crowd abuse of a young player to a new depth. Liverpool football club were revelling in and totally the instigators of what happened and is still happening to him. Did they do anything to discourage the abuse he got at Anfield. Of course not. They see it as using their fans to their best advantage.
Should City players walk off the pitch in protest when this happens. They'd never play another game.
But surely the PFA should direct it's members in these matters. Why do they not speak out to protect one of their members. Any action taken would have to involve both teams on the park.
Trying to tame the crowd when in their mob mentality is like trying to tame society.
The players on the other hand hold the power of whether a match will proceed or not. Referees have been issued directives and told the clubs how the rules would be applied and how holding in the box wouldn't be tolerated etc.
Why can the Players not decide what is unacceptable and issue a directive saying they will support their players if action such as refusing to play when racist/homophobic/whateverist abuse takes place.
Seems extreme and Utopian in a way. It's not going to happen. But players tolerating it will perpetuate the behaviour of the crowd.

nottsblue wrote:Sadly, as a society, we are a long way off accepting our elite sportspeople, both male and female, are gay. Heaven knows why that is. It doesn't happen in other walks of life. You wouldn't care less if your doctor or dentist or postman or local shopkeeper or bar tender or indeed any of your colleagues were gay. It just doesn't matter.

Agree with you and I've socialised, worked, and shared an office with gay work colleagues. However, I wouldn't want to shower with them. Sadly I never got to shower with any of my female work colleagues. There's something about being naked in a shower as opposed to being with someone doing everyday stuff. Can't quite put my finger on it though.

This might be really simplistic but racism is nothing like as bad as it once was on the terraces. Yes there are still some idiots but I never hear any at City. On the same basis I don't think a gay player would get any stick either, even if he was a rag. The only people that would truly highlight this are the fucking media. That's where the intrusion would become unbearable. The vast majority, IMO, really couldn't care less one way or the other.

Justified logic wrote:

nottsblue wrote:Sadly, as a society, we are a long way off accepting our elite sportspeople, both male and female, are gay. Heaven knows why that is. It doesn't happen in other walks of life. You wouldn't care less if your doctor or dentist or postman or local shopkeeper or bar tender or indeed any of your colleagues were gay. It just doesn't matter.

Agree with you and I've socialised, worked, and shared an office with gay work colleagues. However, I wouldn't want to shower with them. Sadly I never got to shower with any of my female work colleagues. There's something about being naked in a shower as opposed to being with someone doing everyday stuff. Can't quite put my finger on it though.

Not being able to separate nakedness and sex is quite sad and juvenile to be honest. It sounds like you're not secure in your own sexuality.

I enjoy the sauna butt-naked with men, women, gay and straight without a second thought. Eroticism and sex is all about the context, not whether you're wearing clothes or not.

Sorry Mr N, I was being flippant. I never had any cause to shower with any of my work colleagues, being totally non-sporty.

It's an interesting social phenomenon but I think the simple rule of thumb works in most cases: the more vehemently anti-gay a person is, the more than person is struggling with coming to terms with their own latent homosexuality. I noticed a comment earlier on that Andre Gray is one (of the 2 gay premiership footballers). It may have been an off-the-cuff comment but it could explain his vehemently anti-gay tweet. That most people don't care about the sexuality of other people is really because they are at ease with their own sexuality and don't regard the sexuality of others as any of their business.