Pot 2

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Re: Pot 2

Postby DoomMerchant » Fri May 15, 2015 6:31 pm

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:You are igoring twenty odd years of CL and G14 cementing those clubs at the top of the game. Of course they became dominant because they have been snafffling all the TV cash! They take it back to their domestic leagues, have the advantage, qualify again, get more cash and so it goes on. Yes, a team had less games to get through to win it, but that is not the only reason a variety of clubs won it he European Cup. Money and G14 dictated that.


They've also built a system so that the upstarts can't have a good run of form over 2-3 months and earn something special. Now you have to grind it out again the best in the world over 9 months, which again plays into their hands around squad depth, and the like. And yes, we're "one of them" now, in spirit. But my contention is that until you get into Pot1 you can't win this thing unless you are a statistical anomaly which seems to happen about 1.5 times a decade since they invented their mafia grip on the situation.

When Villa won it in 82 they played 8 matches, with 6 of those being two-legged ties for 2nd round, QF, and Semis over the course of 9 months. About an extra match ever month. They didn't have to play a qualifier or it would have added one extra match to their schedule.

Compare it to today where you play 6 matches to get out of the groups alone, and then two legged ties for 3 rounds then a final. It's 5 more matches in total, unless you have to qualify of course.

13 matches vs 8 matches.

We need to get into Pot 1 first before we can win this thing. It's designed to fuck you. We could get lucky, but we won't.

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Re: Pot 2

Postby Ted Hughes » Fri May 15, 2015 6:45 pm

Re Mourinho; he is a gold plated Tony Pulis.

He cashes in when others are not quite on it. No matter how much money he gets to spend, or how many titles he wins, his teams will only be remembered as statistics, outside their own fans. His bullshit about not being ready last season was just a smokescreen for failure, same with Van Gaal, & WENGER EVERY FUCKING SEASON.

City with Mourinho would win titles from time to time, but not necessarily the Champions League. He will only win that, if other teams let themselves down.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Fri May 15, 2015 7:02 pm

Spot on Ted and Mike.
The money creates the great teams.
Gone are the days of medium sized clubs triumphing. . . . And when the mysterious Eastern European 'crack outfits' were anything more than fodder for the big boys. It sickens me to the core and surprises me to hear a Blue buying the shite they pump out:
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Plain Speaking » Fri May 15, 2015 7:49 pm

I agree Ted, Mourinho's defensive system's are less exciting to watch, and his teams wont be adored by the neutral as say Barca. However, top players will continue to be lured to join him, and win trophies. Most players just want to win as many trophies as they can, and be paid handsomely for it. Most supporters are happy if their team are winning trophies.

I think Pellegrini neglects defensive aspects of the game, and he appears unable to motivate players sufficiently. At times we play attractive attacking football but we lack energy. We seem to have generally gone backwards this year, and I think we will be fighting for top four survival rather than the title next year if we keep him.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Im_Spartacus » Fri May 15, 2015 7:59 pm

Plain Speaking wrote:
DoomMerchant wrote:
I Just Blue Myself wrote:I recommend this website for seeding/coefficient information:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Porto were in pot 2, as were Liverpool according to these tables:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2003.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2004.html

Also, Dortmund were in pot 1 according to this website:

http://www.mogiel.net/EC/seed9697.php


cheers for that guys....i appreciate your ability to use Google way way better than me. Fuck. I should start doing furniture refinishing for a line of work perhaps. I love to take an old dresser and strip it, etc.

So when i look at that we're 18th as of right now. Dortmund won't qualify for CL, but Schalke won't make it either so i guess that's us into 16th then, right? Germany will get four spots but the other 3 are far below us coefficient-wise. What pot does Sevilla go into if they win Europa? Can they actually leapfrog us or does the Europa League winner just trickle into the comp at qual stages?

also, i'd assume that these specific spots could shift a big depending on the last few weeks of league play, obvs, right?

Anyway, the basic premise i was making was....has anyone from outside Pot 1 won the comp recently, and it looks like the answer is yes, and it's just 2 teams from Pot 2.

They've stitched this up really tightly, the cunts. Until we can get into Pot 1 regularly, winning this is an absolute crapshoot and once a decade thing that MIGHT happen if we're amazing and lucky.

cheers

Surely traditional pot 1 teams have won the CL, more than the other teams, because generally, pot 1 teams have been the best teams in the competition? Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc. would still challenge even in pot 4.

I agree, there have been "Groups of Death" where 3 or 4 teams can be very good, (usually with us in), and it's harder.

However, if you are good enough, you overcome the higher pot teams, like Porto and Dortmund did.

I certainly don't like the 5 year coefficient rules, and TV scheduling that can favour established clubs, but if you are good enough you still progress.



Interesting that Porto and Inter are two of the three teams from pot 2 to win the champions league, no prizes for guessing the common theme,

So essentially, if you're not Jose Mourinho, it's pretty much unheard of to win the CL from pot 2
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Fri May 15, 2015 8:10 pm

Plain Speaking wrote:I agree Ted, Mourinho's defensive system's are less exciting to watch, and his teams wont be adored by the neutral as say Barca. However, top players will continue to be lured to join him, and win trophies. Most players just want to win as many trophies as they can, and be paid handsomely for it. Most supporters are happy if their team are winning trophies.

I think Pellegrini neglects defensive aspects of the game, and he appears unable to motivate players sufficiently. At times we play attractive attacking football but we lack energy. We seem to have generally gone backwards this year, and I think we will be fighting for top four survival rather than the title next year if we keep him.


What are you talking about? He 'motivated' them to a fucking double last season.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Fri May 15, 2015 8:28 pm

Plain Speaking wrote:I agree Ted, Mourinho's defensive system's are less exciting to watch, and his teams wont be adored by the neutral as say Barca. However, top players will continue to be lured to join him, and win trophies. Most players just want to win as many trophies as they can, and be paid handsomely for it. Most supporters are happy if their team are winning trophies.

I think Pellegrini neglects defensive aspects of the game, and he appears unable to motivate players sufficiently. At times we play attractive attacking football but we lack energy. We seem to have generally gone backwards this year, and I think we will be fighting for top four survival rather than the title next year if we keep him.


Are they? Even if they're watching shit football?
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Re: Pot 2

Postby DoomMerchant » Fri May 15, 2015 8:54 pm

Im_Spartacus wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:
DoomMerchant wrote:
I Just Blue Myself wrote:I recommend this website for seeding/coefficient information:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/index.html

Porto were in pot 2, as were Liverpool according to these tables:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2003.html
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uef ... l2004.html

Also, Dortmund were in pot 1 according to this website:

http://www.mogiel.net/EC/seed9697.php


cheers for that guys....i appreciate your ability to use Google way way better than me. Fuck. I should start doing furniture refinishing for a line of work perhaps. I love to take an old dresser and strip it, etc.

So when i look at that we're 18th as of right now. Dortmund won't qualify for CL, but Schalke won't make it either so i guess that's us into 16th then, right? Germany will get four spots but the other 3 are far below us coefficient-wise. What pot does Sevilla go into if they win Europa? Can they actually leapfrog us or does the Europa League winner just trickle into the comp at qual stages?

also, i'd assume that these specific spots could shift a big depending on the last few weeks of league play, obvs, right?

Anyway, the basic premise i was making was....has anyone from outside Pot 1 won the comp recently, and it looks like the answer is yes, and it's just 2 teams from Pot 2.

They've stitched this up really tightly, the cunts. Until we can get into Pot 1 regularly, winning this is an absolute crapshoot and once a decade thing that MIGHT happen if we're amazing and lucky.

cheers

Surely traditional pot 1 teams have won the CL, more than the other teams, because generally, pot 1 teams have been the best teams in the competition? Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea etc. would still challenge even in pot 4.

I agree, there have been "Groups of Death" where 3 or 4 teams can be very good, (usually with us in), and it's harder.

However, if you are good enough, you overcome the higher pot teams, like Porto and Dortmund did.

I certainly don't like the 5 year coefficient rules, and TV scheduling that can favour established clubs, but if you are good enough you still progress.



Interesting that Porto and Inter are two of the three teams from pot 2 to win the champions league, no prizes for guessing the common theme,

So essentially, if you're not Jose Mourinho, it's pretty much unheard of to win the CL from pot 2


Great point. And the Spanish Waiter.

I'd rather have fucking Paul Jewell than either of them tbh.

They both setup not to lose and wait for you to fuck up. Grinding it out is still winning so I'll respect the result but I don't want to emulate the style or the culture. I want something far more swashbuckling like I saw last season.

And I don't think the Count ignores defense at all per someone's previous post. In fact I think he's playing a complex and risky defensive approach that is quite modern and sophisticated from attack to defense and back again. The challenge is we don't have the legs to play it 100%. After 30 mins we're like a middle ages paunchy balding man 7 mins into some sexercise. Winded and hoping the end is near.

Cheers
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Plain Speaking » Fri May 15, 2015 9:17 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:I agree Ted, Mourinho's defensive system's are less exciting to watch, and his teams wont be adored by the neutral as say Barca. However, top players will continue to be lured to join him, and win trophies. Most players just want to win as many trophies as they can, and be paid handsomely for it. Most supporters are happy if their team are winning trophies.

I think Pellegrini neglects defensive aspects of the game, and he appears unable to motivate players sufficiently. At times we play attractive attacking football but we lack energy. We seem to have generally gone backwards this year, and I think we will be fighting for top four survival rather than the title next year if we keep him.


Are they? Even if they're watching shit football?

I genuinely think yes.
Personally, it ruins my weekend when we lose.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Plain Speaking » Fri May 15, 2015 9:30 pm

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:I agree Ted, Mourinho's defensive system's are less exciting to watch, and his teams wont be adored by the neutral as say Barca. However, top players will continue to be lured to join him, and win trophies. Most players just want to win as many trophies as they can, and be paid handsomely for it. Most supporters are happy if their team are winning trophies.

I think Pellegrini neglects defensive aspects of the game, and he appears unable to motivate players sufficiently. At times we play attractive attacking football but we lack energy. We seem to have generally gone backwards this year, and I think we will be fighting for top four survival rather than the title next year if we keep him.


What are you talking about? He 'motivated' them to a fucking double last season.

We were very lucky Chelsea beat Liverpool, at Anfield, with the Gerard slip, otherwise, it would have been a Liverpool PL win, last season.

To be fair, some of the attacking football last season was exceptional. I think the personality of a coach is very often mirrored in the way a side plays. Young enthusiastic coaches, like Klopp and Sherwood seem to impart an energy into their players. Aggressive coaches, (like Fat Sam and Pulis), seem to have players that foul a lot. This season our players often seem "laid back" and lacking passion, how MP comes across? I genuinely like and respect MP as a man, but I feel he is lacking some qualities as a coach.
Last edited by Plain Speaking on Fri May 15, 2015 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Fri May 15, 2015 9:32 pm

Plain Speaking wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:I agree Ted, Mourinho's defensive system's are less exciting to watch, and his teams wont be adored by the neutral as say Barca. However, top players will continue to be lured to join him, and win trophies. Most players just want to win as many trophies as they can, and be paid handsomely for it. Most supporters are happy if their team are winning trophies.

I think Pellegrini neglects defensive aspects of the game, and he appears unable to motivate players sufficiently. At times we play attractive attacking football but we lack energy. We seem to have generally gone backwards this year, and I think we will be fighting for top four survival rather than the title next year if we keep him.


Are they? Even if they're watching shit football?

I genuinely think yes.
Personally, it ruins my weekend when we lose.


As it does mine, however my team playing shit football and generally being a shower of gobby little cheating cunts would ruin my enjoyment in the game altogether.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Fri May 15, 2015 9:47 pm

"We were very lucky Chelsea beat Liverpool, at Anfield, with the Gerard slip, otherwise, it would have been a Liverpool PL win, last season."

The title win wasn't decided by that moment alone, it was decided over the course of 38 games.

It's bad enough seeing dicks in the media trying to devalue our title win without seeing our own doing the same.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Plain Speaking » Fri May 15, 2015 9:50 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:I agree Ted, Mourinho's defensive system's are less exciting to watch, and his teams wont be adored by the neutral as say Barca. However, top players will continue to be lured to join him, and win trophies. Most players just want to win as many trophies as they can, and be paid handsomely for it. Most supporters are happy if their team are winning trophies.

I think Pellegrini neglects defensive aspects of the game, and he appears unable to motivate players sufficiently. At times we play attractive attacking football but we lack energy. We seem to have generally gone backwards this year, and I think we will be fighting for top four survival rather than the title next year if we keep him.


Are they? Even if they're watching shit football?

I genuinely think yes.
Personally, it ruins my weekend when we lose.


As it does mine, however my team playing shit football and generally being a shower of gobby little cheating cunts would ruin my enjoyment in the game altogether.

You didn't say anything about "gobby cheating" behaviour before? I love my club, and I agree, its important to have sound characters, that 100% want to win, like Silva, Vinny and Zabby who generally are firm but fair in the tackle and give everything.
Jack Wilshire falls into that category of "gobby cheating" character and I don't like reports we are linked with him or similar.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Foreverinbluedreams » Fri May 15, 2015 10:10 pm

Plain Speaking wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:I agree Ted, Mourinho's defensive system's are less exciting to watch, and his teams wont be adored by the neutral as say Barca. However, top players will continue to be lured to join him, and win trophies. Most players just want to win as many trophies as they can, and be paid handsomely for it. Most supporters are happy if their team are winning trophies.

I think Pellegrini neglects defensive aspects of the game, and he appears unable to motivate players sufficiently. At times we play attractive attacking football but we lack energy. We seem to have generally gone backwards this year, and I think we will be fighting for top four survival rather than the title next year if we keep him.


Are they? Even if they're watching shit football?

I genuinely think yes.
Personally, it ruins my weekend when we lose.


As it does mine, however my team playing shit football and generally being a shower of gobby little cheating cunts would ruin my enjoyment in the game altogether.

You didn't say anything about "gobby cheating" behaviour before? I love my club, and I agree, its important to have sound characters, that 100% want to win, like Silva, Vinny and Zabby who generally are firm but fair in the tackle and give everything.
Jack Wilshire falls into that category of "gobby cheating" character and I don't like reports we are linked with him or similar.


We're talking about Mourinho right? He encourages that type of shit in his teams.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Plain Speaking » Fri May 15, 2015 10:16 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:"We were very lucky Chelsea beat Liverpool, at Anfield, with the Gerard slip, otherwise, it would have been a Liverpool PL win, last season."

The title win wasn't decided by that moment alone, it was decided over the course of 38 games.

It's bad enough seeing dicks in the media trying to devalue our title win without seeing our own doing the same.

I'm not trying to devalue our title. I'm being honest about what happened. I'm very proud of our title. I thought we had easily the best team in the PL, but we nearly didn't win it.
I accept your comment "it was decided over the course of 38 games",, but that was the "business end" of the season and results "appear" more significant at that stage.
There has never been such a tight finish to any PL season. With about 3 matches left to go, it was firmly in Liverpool's hands and they blew it! First against Chelsea, then against Palace. We held our nerve and rightly deserved to win it.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Plain Speaking » Fri May 15, 2015 10:49 pm

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Plain Speaking wrote:
Foreverinbluedreams wrote:Are they? Even if they're watching shit football?

I genuinely think yes.
Personally, it ruins my weekend when we lose.


As it does mine, however my team playing shit football and generally being a shower of gobby little cheating cunts would ruin my enjoyment in the game altogether.

You didn't say anything about "gobby cheating" behaviour before? I love my club, and I agree, its important to have sound characters, that 100% want to win, like Silva, Vinny and Zabby who generally are firm but fair in the tackle and give everything.
Jack Wilshire falls into that category of "gobby cheating" character and I don't like reports we are linked with him or similar.


We're talking about Mourinho right? He encourages that type of shit in his teams.


Mourinho's "Gobby" certainly, I cant think when he's outright "cheated?" He was well out of order gouging Villanova that time...
John Terry is "Gobby" and I can imagine him cheating on the football field, (as well as with Wayne Bridges Missus) I'm relieved we didn't get him...
Costa is certainly both, a horrible character...
Apart from those 2 cant think of any obvious others at Chelsea? There seems far worse at the rags and probably a few other PL teams?

I suppose your right, I wouldn't be happy with a "win at all costs" Wouldn't mind the trophies, but horrible character?
I think most reasonable rags, (there are a few!), that knew the real Ferguson character, felt the same? Mourinho and Ferguson were certainly cast from the same mould.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Tokyo Blue » Sat May 16, 2015 12:03 am

Plain Speaking wrote:Mourinho's "Gobby" certainly, I cant think when he's outright "cheated?" He was well out of order gouging Villanova that time...

Asking for City to be deducted Premier League points after breaking precisely zero Premier League rules. I call that "outright cheating", yeah. As for gouging someone's eyes, well, if success means that much to you that you are prepared to accept that kind of thing in a manager, then that is your business. I am not.

You can debate the merits of his record and his success until you are blue in the face, but to the vast majority of football fans it means nothing. The man is a complete shit and will for ever remain so. I'd sooner have Stuart Pearce back. Fuck me, I'd sooner have Alan Ball back.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby CTID Hants » Mon May 25, 2015 10:40 pm

So, Roma qualified for CL...

I seemed to remember a post in here (can't be arsed to search) saying this would put us pot 3?

Anyone care to enlighten me in layman's terms where stand in CL? All this coefficient bollox gets my head in a twist lol.

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Re: Pot 2

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Tue May 26, 2015 12:32 am

Roma's coefficient is lower than ours. Napoli via Europa was the problem.
If you remember we got them out of pot 4 and we did better than them this season. Their figure is around 43.
They will be probably be one to avoid from 4 again. Possibly along with Lazio.
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Re: Pot 2

Postby Slim » Tue May 26, 2015 12:44 am

We've scraped into pot 2 because Dortmund and Schalke failed to qualify. We might move more comfortably into the pot as a lot of teams above us have to go through the qualifying rounds but we can't drop any further.
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