The mancityfans.net football forum

Sorry if this is heresy but indulge me and/or slag me off as you see fit.

It seems most folk see Pep as our saviour, hopefully arriving on a planet near us in 2016.

He's seen as someone who can create teams, improve them, and deliver success at home and in Europe.

I'm up for all these ambitions but I'm really not so sure that the facts of his time in Munich bear out his ability to deliver them.

We've all been driven half crazy by our lack of success in Europe but consider how the Bayern fans now feel who saw their team win the title under Heynckes and in two years of Pep have been annihilated by Madrid and, whilst the tie isn't over, embarrassed by Porto.

As for improving teams then there are plenty of Bayern fans who are strongly of the view that the team has not improved; they think that the foreign media are overawed by Pep and don't give the credit to his predecessor. They think the style of play has changed and is not as aggressive or enjoyable as it once was. Some more traditional Bavarians even think he has betrayed the culture and spirit of the club!!!

So - is he our clear saviour? And given he might not even ever come are we right to pin our hopes on someone who might not come and even if he does might not be the dream many people think.

To be fair, they did not have Ribery, Robben, Alaba, Schweinsteiger and Lahm was not 100 %.

Still with 3-1 if you ask me, they are favorites to move on.

What a load of speculative unfounded bullshit.

Every now and again, circumstances come together which creates an anomaly. In the case of Barcelona, an exceptional group of young players were breaking into the first team under Rijkaard, following cryuff's work in building La Masia into what it is reputed to be today.

At the same time, a young coach, who had coached a number of these younger players at youth level came through and was able to immediately play the same style that had been the case at youth level, and interchange the better youth players into the first team to plug gaps....some of whom like Pedro soon made the first team spot his own.

All these circumstances came to a confluence, and Guardiola was the one to put the cherry on top of Rijkaard and Cryuff's work.

Much the same set of coincidences occurred in 1992 in England, although the manager that time had more about him, more longevity. Since Guardiola went to Bayern, he has been bang average compared to his predecessor.

I thinkthat their fêted youth system and the notion of Guardiola as a top manager is possibly nothing more than a fluke. Like at the swamp, Since the emergence of all this talent at once, how many players of genuine European quality have come through since then? What signs are there for Bayern that his "style of play" wasn't simply dictated by the nature of the players he had at Barca, and that it's not as transferable as we may think.

I think we go down this route at our own risk, as it could easily end in tears

LookMumImOnMCF.net wrote:What a load of speculative unfounded bullshit.

You really are a smarmy self important cunt aren't you?

The OP's assessment of his performance in Germany is not wide of the mark according to a few lads I spoke to last week who have season tickets at Bayern. There are a lot of question marks about his methods and tactics being unsuited to the squad, which raise further questions about whether what he did at Barcelona is transportable elsewhere.

So what exactly is this speculative unfounded bullshit? Care to enlighten us, of are you just being a fucking troll as usual?

Im_Spartacus wrote:

LookMumImOnMCF.net wrote:What a load of speculative unfounded bullshit.

You really are a smarmy self important cunt aren't you?

The OP's assessment of his performance in Germany is not wide of the mark according to a few lads I spoke to last week who have season tickets at Bayern. There are a lot of question marks about his methods and tactics being unsuited to the squad, which raise further questions about whether what he did at Barcelona is transportable elsewhere.

So what exactly is this speculative unfounded bullshit? Care to enlighten us, of are you just being a fucking troll as usual?

Being a troll as usual....nail on head with that one.

Im_Spartacus wrote:

LookMumImOnMCF.net wrote:What a load of speculative unfounded bullshit.

You really are a smarmy self important cunt aren't you?

The OP's assessment of his performance in Germany is not wide of the mark according to a few lads I spoke to last week who have season tickets at Bayern. There are a lot of question marks about his methods and tactics being unsuited to the squad, which raise further questions about whether what he did at Barcelona is transportable elsewhere.

So what exactly is this speculative unfounded bullshit? Care to enlighten us, of are you just being a fucking troll as usual?

Stay classy mate.

Unfounded: "A few lads you spoke to" are your basis for dismissing the talents of a man, who is widely (widely as in not just a few guys you met in the pub) regarded as one of the greatest managers of the modern era.

Speculative: The original poster is also on about "our saviour". Saviour from what exactly? Who exactly is banking on Guardiola to "save" us from anything? This want and expectancy from fickle fans is what's killing any spirit this club hasn't sold off.

carl_feedthegoat wrote:Being a troll as usual....nail on head with that one.

Mate, you are literally the dictionary definition of a troll. I'd consider it a complement if I thought you'd understand the irony.

LookMumImOnMCF.net wrote:

Im_Spartacus wrote:

LookMumImOnMCF.net wrote:What a load of speculative unfounded bullshit.

You really are a smarmy self important cunt aren't you?

The OP's assessment of his performance in Germany is not wide of the mark according to a few lads I spoke to last week who have season tickets at Bayern. There are a lot of question marks about his methods and tactics being unsuited to the squad, which raise further questions about whether what he did at Barcelona is transportable elsewhere.

So what exactly is this speculative unfounded bullshit? Care to enlighten us, of are you just being a fucking troll as usual?

Stay classy mate.

Unfounded: "A few lads you spoke to" are your basis for dismissing the talents of a man, who is widely (widely as in not just a few guys you met in the pub) regarded as one of the greatest managers of the modern era.

Speculative: The original poster is also on about "our saviour". Saviour from what exactly? Who exactly is banking on Guardiola to "save" us from anything? This want and expectancy from fickle fans is what's killing any spirit this club hasn't sold off.

carl_feedthegoat wrote:Being a troll as usual....nail on head with that one.

Mate, you are literally the dictionary definition of a troll. I'd consider it a complement if I thought you'd understand the irony.

Unfounded.... it was the OP you accused of being unfounded, not me.

Unrelated to that, but I would happily take the views of some very knowledgeable and level headed football fans on board, particularly when those views appear to agree with the narrative that is playing out in the media that he is under performing. Should we just disregard anyone's opinion that you don't agree with as unfounded? If you weren't a city fan and met 3 city fans who all said Toure was under performing, should you entirely disregard that perspective because it's only 3 fans? Even if what you've seen supports that viewpoint?

Speculative....."it seems that people think he's our saviour" - In the sense that it's long been believed by many that he would be the manager at some point in the future to lead us on to untold glory and riches. So, in reality, the statement that people think he's the saviour, is not speculative at all, some people clearly do, evidence is all around us this week on this board.

Your post was unnecessarily dismissive and factually incorrect in that the OP's post was neither speculative nor unfounded. If you want to disagree with the guy, have a discussion about it, unless you're just here so you can put people down and look down on people with smug superiority as you seem to do more often than not.

Never mind the internecine stuff. It was obvious last year he had them over passing when they were set up for faster more direct play. In any walk of life you find that getting lucky and being a genius are easily confused.Given that we can never turn the clock back or conduct a controlled experiment we never really know which it is.

Here lies the reason this forum is in decline.

Crossie wrote:Here lies the reason this forum is in decline.

Decline?


Nothing brings the board to life more than manager chat,i'm off to get my popcorn.



Dis gonna be good.

In forum terms, what actually is a troll? Genuine question.

iwasthere2012 wrote:In forum terms, what actually is a troll? Genuine question.

I think it's someone who posts purely for provocation, with little or no genuine interest in the debate.

Like me :)

Original Dub wrote:

iwasthere2012 wrote:In forum terms, what actually is a troll? Genuine question.

I think it's someone who posts purely for provocation, with little or no genuine interest in the debate.

Like me :)

Like throwing a one line grenade in to see what happens? Gotcha.

Crossie wrote:Here lies the reason this forum is in decline.

I blame mediocrity. When we were shit everyone either bonded or argued. When we won shit we either celebrated or argued.

Now we're just there this season, no threat at either end. We have to talk about something, might as well fight.

Why would Bayern be better than the pre Pep side who won all the competitions they entered, without all their best players & like us, with an ageing team ?

The cunts have made their own bed where they stroll through the season & have no competition whatsoever, then suddenly have to go up five levels to play in the Champions League. Fuck em.

We have seen Bayern on numerous occasions. There is one which stands out, when Pep's team dicked us off the pitch two seasons ago. That team was better than us, better than Bayern previously, better than Barca, Arsenal with Henry & Vieira, better than anything we have seen.

That was everyone fit, at the top of their game, playing in a Barca style, with tougher more athletic players. That's what he can do. But he is doing it with a team which is past its sell by date. Relying on veteran players, like we are. But getting much more out of them. They were heavilly handicapped when we played them at their place this season, but he totally re vamped the team & beat us.

Just because he has a great record doesn't mean he can instantly clean up at our club, the Premier League is a different problem, but people questioning him, then suggesting basically ANY other manager as a better bet, are just talking through their arses. Instant solution ? Not necessarily. Could take a few seasons. Bloke to build a fantastic team & club which could last forever after he's long gone; absolutely.
Of course he can do the fucking job at City & there isn't even the slightest risk giving him the opportunity. There is no guarantee any manager wins us the title, but Pep, even if he failed to win anything, would leave nothing behind at City other than good foundations.

I'm hoping he sees that Bayern could be a tougher rebuild than City, with even worse whingers to deal with, & comes here.

but people questioning him, then suggesting basically ANY other manager as a better bet, are just talking through their arses

Who says this? I don't see it in this thread but then again, I might be missing something.

lets all have a disco wrote:

Crossie wrote:Here lies the reason this forum is in decline.

Decline?


Nothing brings the board to life more than manager chat,i'm off to get my popcorn.



Dis gonna be good.

You having a green tea with ya popcorn?

Cocacolajojo wrote:

but people questioning him, then suggesting basically ANY other manager as a better bet, are just talking through their arses

Who says this? I don't see it in this thread but then again, I might be missing something.

Anyone who suggests Pep can't do the job is automatically suggesting someone else can, as we have to have some cunt managing, therefore if someone suggests (note word: 'suggests' ) they know another manager would do a better job, they are talking bollocks.

Pep is the least gamble out of any candidate for the job, but nobody is a certainty to succeed.

"Pep is the least gamble out of any candidate for the job. If someone suggests otherwise, they are talking bollocks."

Sounds an awful lot like this to me:

AntMcfc wrote:your opinion will mean very little to me because I know I'm right.