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Hazy2 wrote:This squad has accelerated matters for me. As Carl points out Pellers is on thin ice, that is 12 months early and a 12 months we have under achieved, he is almost a lame manager. And we might be just stalled, we are at big decision time a year earlier than we planned, lose the Derby and come 3rd or worse gone sadly as that is running backwards, and nobody will let him get away with that, not all his fault. Players don't get sacked.

I think next season, even if it was average, we'll stay in the top four. If that happens then it may not be too bad presuming we end up with a younger squad, some EDS blooded and some dead wood shifted - it wouldn't be too catastrophic as Pep would still take over with a relatively strong hand.

twosips wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:This squad has accelerated matters for me. As Carl points out Pellers is on thin ice, that is 12 months early and a 12 months we have under achieved, he is almost a lame manager. And we might be just stalled, we are at big decision time a year earlier than we planned, lose the Derby and come 3rd or worse gone sadly as that is running backwards, and nobody will let him get away with that, not all his fault. Players don't get sacked.

I think next season, even if it was average, we'll stay in the top four. If that happens then it may not be too bad presuming we end up with a younger squad, some EDS blooded and some dead wood shifted - it wouldn't be too catastrophic as Pep would still take over with a relatively strong hand.

We are not arsenal City are fast tracking to compete year in year out. Certain players, who are not gonna be available in 12 months are of interest to us now. II just do not see Pellers get the money, the footballl side is supposed to be our biggest marketing tool, it has been poor throughout the season from signings to performances. Massive summer brought forward a year by the players doing what they did a couple of years ago.

Hazy2 wrote:

twosips wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:This squad has accelerated matters for me. As Carl points out Pellers is on thin ice, that is 12 months early and a 12 months we have under achieved, he is almost a lame manager. And we might be just stalled, we are at big decision time a year earlier than we planned, lose the Derby and come 3rd or worse gone sadly as that is running backwards, and nobody will let him get away with that, not all his fault. Players don't get sacked.

I think next season, even if it was average, we'll stay in the top four. If that happens then it may not be too bad presuming we end up with a younger squad, some EDS blooded and some dead wood shifted - it wouldn't be too catastrophic as Pep would still take over with a relatively strong hand.

We are not arsenal City are fast tracking to compete year in year out. Certain players, who are not gonna be available in 12 months are of interest to us now. II just do not see Pellers get the money, the footballl side is supposed to be our biggest marketing tool, it has been poor throughout the season from signings to performances. Massive summer brought forward a year by the players doing what they did a couple of years ago.

You are assuming that it's automatically an improvement if a change is made.

It could just as easily be the case that it's better not to.

Pellegrini will be fortunate to survive which doesn't mean he won't. If he was coaching Barca or Real he'd definitely be out. Performances in Europe have been almost entirely shit and that matters a lot to the hierarchy. Our performances in the League have been very inconsistent to say the least and trending down. We were booted out of both domestic Cups without a sniff of Wembley. If he can pull things together I'd prefer him to stay and then be replaced by Guardiola in 2016. If the latter unexpectedly becomes available this Summer I'd take him.

Not a big fan of shifting managers every season or two. Was he not meant to win 5 trophies in 5 years? If correct is he still not on course.

sheblue wrote:Not a big fan of shifting managers every season or two. Was he not meant to win 5 trophies in 5 years? If correct is he still not on course.

That was just a bullshit answer given to a bullshit question.

Progress is key, we haven't progressed this season BUT "the pinch" must be considered when analysing the past season.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

sheblue wrote:Not a big fan of shifting managers every season or two. Was he not meant to win 5 trophies in 5 years? If correct is he still not on course.

That was just a bullshit answer given to a bullshit question.

Progress is key, we haven't progressed this season BUT "the pinch" must be considered when analysing the past season.

We haven't progressed probably because the signings were just not good enough, but its been debated a zillion times. If a new man comes in would the signings get better? How much influence would the new man have, if any. Those further up the line call the shots again.
There are others, including players, who should be carrying the can too.
Too easy to blame the manager.
All of them from the board down have responsibility.

sheblue wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

sheblue wrote:Not a big fan of shifting managers every season or two. Was he not meant to win 5 trophies in 5 years? If correct is he still not on course.

That was just a bullshit answer given to a bullshit question.

Progress is key, we haven't progressed this season BUT "the pinch" must be considered when analysing the past season.

We haven't progressed probably because the signings were just not good enough, but its been debated a zillion times. If a new man comes in would the signings get better? How much influence would the new man have, if any. Those further up the line call the shots again.
There are others, including players, who should be carrying the can too.
Too easy to blame the manager.
All of them from the board down have responsibility.

I'm not arguing otherwise, my point is that the sanctions have to be considered when the lack of progress is judged.

Considering a number of the signings were beyond doubt 'Pellegrini signings' (Big Willy and Demichellis) it's fair to assume he had a hand in the others too (which makes sense when you think how many came from Spain/Portugal) - if Pellegrini is here to see out his final season then as I said somewhere else on the forum I think his influence on signings will be a lot less - to the point of just giving input on positions which need strengthening.

Signings haven't been the problem & most of them have done ok & will be better next season. Navas, Fernandinho Negredo & Demichelis were a big part of last season's title win & I doubt we would have even got close without them. Bony looks like he will be a good asset, Fernando, Mangala & Jovetic have shown enough to suggest they could be perfectly ok if given time.

But if Kompany, Yaya, Fernandinho, Zaba, Silva, Aguero, Dzeko had been consitsently up to the mark this season, we wouldn't have a problem at domestic level.

They are the players we need to perform if we are going to win titles & they have only done it in short spells. A lot of it may be connected with the World Cup etc, but it doesn't change the fact that the heart of the team hasn't performed.

It's unlikely the ones who remain next season will have such an iffy year, whoever the manager.

Ted Hughes wrote:Signings haven't been the problem & most of them have done ok & will be better next season. Navas, Fernandinho Negredo & Demichelis were a big part of last season's title win & I doubt we would have even got close without them. Bony looks like he will be a good asset, Fernando, Mangala & Jovetic have shown enough to suggest they could be perfectly ok if given time.

But if Kompany, Yaya, Fernandinho, Zaba, Silva, Aguero, Dzeko had been consitsently up to the mark this season, we wouldn't have a problem at domestic level.

They are the players we need to perform if we are going to win titles & they have only done it in short spells. A lot of it may be connected with the World Cup etc, but it doesn't change the fact that the heart of the team hasn't performed.

It's unlikely the ones who remain next season will have such an iffy year, whoever the manager.

That's not the point (about signings being the problem) - the point is who gets the money to spend, our two Spaniards or Pellegrini. Best case for Pellegrini it will almost certainly be his last season with us as he sees his contract out, so the summer window could well be a look to the future (and not an indulgence for the boss).

Now we know Simeone isn't coming and we have a possible choice of Pellers or Anchove, who would you want?

Personally I think we'll stick with Pellers, and rightly so.

You know what Beefster, I have shown loyalty to all managers except Sven, but if anchovy was available I'd dump Pellers in a flash.

Dameerto wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Signings haven't been the problem & most of them have done ok & will be better next season. Navas, Fernandinho Negredo & Demichelis were a big part of last season's title win & I doubt we would have even got close without them. Bony looks like he will be a good asset, Fernando, Mangala & Jovetic have shown enough to suggest they could be perfectly ok if given time.

But if Kompany, Yaya, Fernandinho, Zaba, Silva, Aguero, Dzeko had been consitsently up to the mark this season, we wouldn't have a problem at domestic level.

They are the players we need to perform if we are going to win titles & they have only done it in short spells. A lot of it may be connected with the World Cup etc, but it doesn't change the fact that the heart of the team hasn't performed.

It's unlikely the ones who remain next season will have such an iffy year, whoever the manager.

That's not the point (about signings being the problem) - the point is who gets the money to spend, our two Spaniards or Pellegrini. Best case for Pellegrini it will almost certainly be his last season with us as he sees his contract out, so the summer window could well be a look to the future (and not an indulgence for the boss).

At a club like City, since the takeover at least, I don't think there is that much difference between the managers' signings & the club's signings; they both have the same ideas for the most part (just some like to blame others when things go wrong). They give the manager a list of club scouted players to choose from, he picks the targets in order, we try to sign them & then the manager is allowed one or two of his own pets to add.

Of course in Swales' day, we could have a long ball merchant manager one season, replaced by a midfield obsessed bore the next, then an attacking cavallier nutcase, then a counter attacking nutcase, then a winger fetishist etc etc & the whole thing just made no sense, as one set of players signed by one manager, has no real place in the plans of the next one. (Which would be exactly the case if Simeone came in & would be a total pisstake of all the previous planning imo). But now we have a style of play to aim for.

It's down to the quality available & the balance between short term & long term, but if you give Pellegrini & Txiki £200m to spend on two players, if they end up being mistakes, they will likely be the same mistakes & quite likely the same mistakes Pep or Ancelotti would make. Even if they would all likely blame someone else in their autobiographies!

It seems we want to evolve into a more high pressing attacking style as a club, so the future players we sign will probably fit that profile, perhaps with the occasional manager's pet player thrown in.

The big thing for me, is the day we stop having to buy squad players & instead use our own. Most of the 'big' players we have signed, have been a big success, not many ave missed ( jury is still out on Mangala, but he may eventually turn out fine as well). A fair few of the squad players have been crap, & quite a few more, average.

Those jobs should all be done by homegrown players.

Mangala was wanted by a few, so he gets a pass, Fernando again has to be judged when others are putting in a shift with him. Going forward we need the signings that are gonna influence the next few years, plus replacing Yaya whenever that happens is huge, he has been outrageously good, when it counted more often than not. The downside is a lot to do in a summer.

Hazy2 wrote:Mangala was wanted by a few, so he gets a pass, Fernando again has to be judged when others are putting in a shift with him. Going forward we need the signings that are gonna influence the next few years, plus replacing Yaya whenever that happens is huge, he has been outrageously good, when it counted more often than not. The downside is a lot to do in a summer.

No guarantee Pellegrini, Txiki, Pep Guardiola, or anyone will get that right though. We won't know until the players are in the team, and then it could be one, two seasons before they reach their best level.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Dameerto wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:Signings haven't been the problem & most of them have done ok & will be better next season. Navas, Fernandinho Negredo & Demichelis were a big part of last season's title win & I doubt we would have even got close without them. Bony looks like he will be a good asset, Fernando, Mangala & Jovetic have shown enough to suggest they could be perfectly ok if given time.

But if Kompany, Yaya, Fernandinho, Zaba, Silva, Aguero, Dzeko had been consitsently up to the mark this season, we wouldn't have a problem at domestic level.

They are the players we need to perform if we are going to win titles & they have only done it in short spells. A lot of it may be connected with the World Cup etc, but it doesn't change the fact that the heart of the team hasn't performed.

It's unlikely the ones who remain next season will have such an iffy year, whoever the manager.

That's not the point (about signings being the problem) - the point is who gets the money to spend, our two Spaniards or Pellegrini. Best case for Pellegrini it will almost certainly be his last season with us as he sees his contract out, so the summer window could well be a look to the future (and not an indulgence for the boss).

At a club like City, since the takeover at least, I don't think there is that much difference between the managers' signings & the club's signings; they both have the same ideas for the most part (just some like to blame others when things go wrong). They give the manager a list of club scouted players to choose from, he picks the targets in order, we try to sign them & then the manager is allowed one or two of his own pets to add.

Which is what I was saying I could see change this window. I could see Pellegrini as more of a head coach coming into his final season.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:Mangala was wanted by a few, so he gets a pass, Fernando again has to be judged when others are putting in a shift with him. Going forward we need the signings that are gonna influence the next few years, plus replacing Yaya whenever that happens is huge, he has been outrageously good, when it counted more often than not. The downside is a lot to do in a summer.

No guarantee Pellegrini, Txiki, Pep Guardiola, or anyone will get that right though. We won't know until the players are in the team, and then it could be one, two seasons before they reach their best level.

Not completely true, Barca have tweaked and look as good as new, buy the best and they make life a whole lot easier. Madrid were in control and like us have stalled.

A little late...but perhaps Veira has no contract yet because he is going to be offered a position with the first team next season?

I think Pellegrini is staying unless we miss out on the chumps league. I don't really have a problem with that as I think he should get another year with a chance to sign a "crack" player or two post FFP sanctions and see what he can do with them and some changes that seem to be needed with the squad.

I know Txiki is constantly ridiculed here for his signings, but we could never pay the kind of money to players, their rights owners, agents or the clubs when we are up against the likes of United, Real and Barca. Even Chelsea. We just are going to have a hard time winning those battles just yet unless we overpay.

I'm not saying he's great, but let's see what happens this summer, and we are not Barca in terms of what we can offer in glitz even though we have great facilities are are a growing club.

The Blue Moon podcast covered this issue fairly well this past week I think, and I generally agreed with much of what was said there actually.

Pellegrini's "people" apparently set up that interview with The Daily Mail and The Guardian and it was clear he was speaking to us to try to sell us on his personality more and let us give him another shot. It was effective, I think, and I am generally in support of keeping him for next season, and especially since there likely are no real long term viable options to replace him this summer just yet.