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Nick wrote:

shortagain wrote:This season our defence has looked anything but solid. Many reasons have been put forward for this, most of which have focused on our defensive midfielder situation. Since we let NDJ go, we have not had a true DM with his qualities, those which Matic has brought to the Chelsea team this season.

This lack of protection has coincided with the loss of form of 2 our our best players from last seaon, Vinny & Zabba, meaning extra pressure for any 2 from 4 of MDM, Manga, Clichy & Kolarov, with the loss of points in certain games we should have won.

Fernandinho, doesn't seem to be a genuine DM, Yaya is to lazy to be one & Fernando doesn't appear good enough.

So here's the point, what are others opinions of moving Vinnie into the role, playing in front of MDM & Manga, with an assortment of full backs to choose from.

He's very much in the Matic mold, he's tall, he's brave, he's quick, he can read the game & he has in the past been disciplined in his play. Most important, he can organise others. He came from Hamburg as a DM, so until we can upgrade Fernando or get Yaya tracking back, why not give it a try

Opinions please

Its a fair point; but I will raise you one and suggest a recharged Zaba.

Vinnie could and has done the job before; but as has been suggested above; is he attacking enough, or is he similar to Fernando?

Zaba has played a handful of games for us as a 'box to boxer' and has scored goals (I remember a great goal and MOTM performance against Wigan). He has the fight and engine to play box to box.

Milner was the other player we all hoped would do this. He bangs on about how he is a central midfielder but he hasn't produced the goods in the middle in the little time he's had there.

I don't think we want a box to box player, in fact that could be the problem as when teams break fast against us, our DM's whoever they are are often up with the forwards. We need someone to stay with the central defenders as the full backs are often up field as well. Maybe 3 at the back is the answer, but they have to be very quick for that to work. It usually fails if they are not

shortagain wrote:

Nick wrote:

shortagain wrote:This season our defence has looked anything but solid. Many reasons have been put forward for this, most of which have focused on our defensive midfielder situation. Since we let NDJ go, we have not had a true DM with his qualities, those which Matic has brought to the Chelsea team this season.

This lack of protection has coincided with the loss of form of 2 our our best players from last seaon, Vinny & Zabba, meaning extra pressure for any 2 from 4 of MDM, Manga, Clichy & Kolarov, with the loss of points in certain games we should have won.

Fernandinho, doesn't seem to be a genuine DM, Yaya is to lazy to be one & Fernando doesn't appear good enough.

So here's the point, what are others opinions of moving Vinnie into the role, playing in front of MDM & Manga, with an assortment of full backs to choose from.

He's very much in the Matic mold, he's tall, he's brave, he's quick, he can read the game & he has in the past been disciplined in his play. Most important, he can organise others. He came from Hamburg as a DM, so until we can upgrade Fernando or get Yaya tracking back, why not give it a try

Opinions please

Its a fair point; but I will raise you one and suggest a recharged Zaba.

Vinnie could and has done the job before; but as has been suggested above; is he attacking enough, or is he similar to Fernando?

Zaba has played a handful of games for us as a 'box to boxer' and has scored goals (I remember a great goal and MOTM performance against Wigan). He has the fight and engine to play box to box.

Milner was the other player we all hoped would do this. He bangs on about how he is a central midfielder but he hasn't produced the goods in the middle in the little time he's had there.

I don't think we want a box to box player, in fact that could be the problem as when teams break fast against us, our DM's whoever they are are often up with the forwards. We need someone to stay with the central defenders as the full backs are often up field as well. Maybe 3 at the back is the answer, but they have to be very quick for that to work. It usually fails if they are not

The way the U18s played the other night was close to football perfection imo. The def mid player stayed in front of the 2 cbs, but all of them pushed up. Wherever possible, the other 5 or 7 played in the opponent's half. When they lost the ball in that half, they ran, as fast as they could, to close it down & win it back then passed it around there.

When they did have to come back, they all worked hard to do so, then broke at pace. The defenders were sonetimes isolated but the fact that we had the ball & the opposition were shitting their pants that if they got one pass wrong under pressure, we would score, made our defending easier.

Just like Barca, Bayern v us.

phips wrote:Manuel's intense desire to entertain (i.e. play very attacking football that attempts to score a lot of goals every match) will almost always lead to the neglect of the defense

If we're scoring goals then, personally, I'm happy to accept that we'll be a bit loose at the back and, if we are managing to score freely, the defence will, as a concomitant, probably play a little better and with more confidence gained from that.

For my money, the bulk of our problems this year have been because of circumstances 'up front', compounded by the fact that we never had a chance to properly replace what Negredo brought to us in the first part of last season.

"Slack at the back, but potent in attack".......it's the City way and it's fine by me.

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:

phips wrote:Manuel's intense desire to entertain (i.e. play very attacking football that attempts to score a lot of goals every match) will almost always lead to the neglect of the defense

If we're scoring goals then, personally, I'm happy to accept that we'll be a bit loose at the back and, if we are managing to score freely, the defence will, as a concomitant, probably play a little better and with more confidence gained from that.

For my money, the bulk of our problems this year have been because of circumstances 'up front', compounded by the fact that we never had a chance to properly replace what Negredo brought to us in the first part of last season.

"Slack at the back, but potent in attack".......it's the City way and it's fine by me.

I think that would have been enough to win us the title again (might still be if we wake up) but to win the Champions League, we have to defend 100% better, as a team.

A shame what has happend to Komps, but i think he will come back strong. I few matches on the bech will do him good.
Demi is a total new player after he cut his hair, or a prof that sometimes players need time to find their feet in the PL.
I still have belief in Mangala, with his pace and power he only need more experience and calm down a little.
To early to write of Zabba, he has still more to give.
Sagna has been a dissapointing, but in his defence he hasnt played much.
I like Clichy, our best leftback i think.
Kolarov i have a problem to like, he has a decent cross, fair enough. But thats it, find it a little amazing he get away so easy
with his big handicap, of only can do things with his left foot, touches, passing, dribbles, always turning to the left when he has the ball.
He struggled for a minute down his side when he tried to get the ball up late in the dippers match, frustrating.
Not good enoug for this level.

kennyboy wrote:A shame what has happend to Komps, but i think he will come back strong. I few matches on the bech will do him good.
Demi is a total new player after he cut his hair, or a prof that sometimes players need time to find their feet in the PL.
I still have belief in Mangala, with his pace and power he only need more experience and calm down a little.
To early to write of Zabba, he has still more to give.
Sagna has been a dissapointing, but in his defence he hasnt played much.
I like Clichy, our best leftback i think.
Kolarov i have a problem to like, he has a decent cross, fair enough. But thats it, find it a little amazing he get away so easy
with his big handicap, of only can do things with his left foot, touches, passing, dribbles, always turning to the left when he has the ball.
He struggled for a minute down his side when he tried to get the ball up late in the dippers match, frustrating.
Not good enoug for this level.

First off, I agree with the dropping of Vinny in the same way that, I agreed with the dropping of Hart last year.
I hope vinny comes back the better for it. No harm to stick with Mangala and MDM for a few matches.
I'll reserve judgement on Mangala this season. When I look at him, I can't help but think of the way Zabba was, in his first few seasons.
I see enough in him to hope that he continues to improve and become a player that will have a lot of us eating our words.
Fernando. I really do want to give the guy a chance as I can see that he is not one to shirk the work. My big reserve with him is that he is limited in so far as he is a one job man. He is not technically gifted. He may get better but I see him as purely a stopper. Whether we can have the luxury, if you could call it that, of a player purely to do that, remains to be seen.
I think all of our defence though, would benefit from an injection of pace and energy in front of them. I would like to see some youth brought into the squad.
If we can add the energy without sacrificing too much of the flare, I think the whole team will benefit and you may see some of our much maligned defensive players, fairing a whole lot better.
I'm hoping for a few promotions, from the Academy next year. It would do no harm to shake things up a bit.

Fernando is never going to be Yaya Toure on the ball & I don't think he's a reader of the game like Barry, but he's a fucking great penalty area defender & he's not some kind of fucking mug as a footballer, as some of the impatient knobheads on here are suggesting. He's decent, but nervous. He was also fast at one point & now doesn't seem to be. I don't understand that.

Mangala imo has everything but is at the moment making some really fucking stupid decisions. He suddenly dashed upfield on Wed and started trying to win the ball on the edge of the oppo box. No sense in it whatsoever. He has it all, but if he has Dunne's brain, he won't make it as anything other than a squad player. If he does have a brain, I think he will be fine long term.

Ted Hughes wrote:Fernando is never going to be Yaya Toure on the ball & I don't think he's a reader of the game like Barry, but he's a fucking great penalty area defender & he's not some kind of fucking mug as a footballer, as some of the impatient knobheads on here are suggesting. He's decent, but nervous. He was also fast at one point & now doesn't seem to be. I don't understand that.

Mangala imo has everything but is at the moment making some really fucking stupid decisions. He suddenly dashed upfield on Wed and started trying to win the ball on the edge of the oppo box. No sense in it whatsoever. He has it all, but if he has Dunne's brain, he won't make it as anything other than a squad player. If he does have a brain, I think he will be fine long term.

I wonder how he would be as a CB. It's easier reading a game in front of you than chasing back after it.

Ted Hughes wrote:Fernando is never going to be Yaya Toure on the ball & I don't think he's a reader of the game like Barry, but he's a fucking great penalty area defender & he's not some kind of fucking mug as a footballer, as some of the impatient knobheads on here are suggesting. He's decent, but nervous. He was also fast at one point & now doesn't seem to be. I don't understand that.

Mangala imo has everything but is at the moment making some really fucking stupid decisions. He suddenly dashed upfield on Wed and started trying to win the ball on the edge of the oppo box. No sense in it whatsoever. He has it all, but if he has Dunne's brain, he won't make it as anything other than a squad player. If he does have a brain, I think he will be fine long term.

Are you the Spec savers fan of the year, Have a nice weekend I am having a break from the blues and this load of bowlacks

De garden gate

I'd consider moving Vincent back into a DM role next season and see what that looks like. Get one of the kids promoted at CB and keep MDM for another season. Might not work but could be a revelation.

Cheers

DoomMerchant wrote:I'd consider moving Vincent back into a DM role next season and see what that looks like. Get one of the kids promoted at CB and keep MDM for another season. Might not work but could be a revelation.

Cheers

Well worth considering, IMHO and it might actually bring a different dimension to elements of our midfield play.

It could be like signing a new player if it worked out.

I think you're both delusional.

Kompany was an Ok (but far from great) DM for City at that point in time. But he wouldn't be close to cutting it at the level we're now aspiring for.

On the other hand, he's still arguably one of the best CD's in the world when in form. We need him to get his confidence and form back or sell him to an Italian side.

mr_nool wrote:I think you're both delusional.

Kompany was an Ok (but far from great) DM for City at that point in time. But he wouldn't be close to cutting it at the level we're now aspiring for.

On the other hand, he's still arguably one of the best CD's in the world when in form. We need him to get his confidence and form back or sell him to an Italian side.

Kompany had relatively few games for us, as a midfielder, before he was converted to a centre-back, so no-one knows how he would fare in today's side with the players we now have alongside him.

He was also very new to the Premier League, at that time, to compound matters and he has gained much experience since.

No-one is saying that he would automatically set the world on fire, playing in a new/previous role but, to my mind, it would be worth trying and if he did succeed, it might help solve or minimise some of the problems we are now suffering.

mr_nool wrote:I think you're both delusional.

Kompany was an Ok (but far from great) DM for City at that point in time. But he wouldn't be close to cutting it at the level we're now aspiring for.

On the other hand, he's still arguably one of the best CD's in the world when in form. We need him to get his confidence and form back or sell him to an Italian side.

He's not on form. I think he's actually perhaps past it at the position.

Try him out there for a spell preseason. What can it hurt. Or sell him to Barca for 25m. Either one.

Cheers

mr_nool wrote:I think you're both delusional.

Kompany was an Ok (but far from great) DM for City at that point in time. But he wouldn't be close to cutting it at the level we're now aspiring for.

On the other hand, he's still arguably one of the best CD's in the world when in form. We need him to get his confidence and form back or sell him to an Italian side.

Weird how we see our players, one minute the best in the world (was he the best at one point?) and the next he's the worst. We have great players, we need to get behind them.

Shitbags fall.

Beefymcfc wrote:

mr_nool wrote:I think you're both delusional.

Kompany was an Ok (but far from great) DM for City at that point in time. But he wouldn't be close to cutting it at the level we're now aspiring for.

On the other hand, he's still arguably one of the best CD's in the world when in form. We need him to get his confidence and form back or sell him to an Italian side.

Weird how we see our players, one minute the best in the world (was he the best at one point?) and the next he's the worst. We have great players, we need to get behind them.

Shitbags fall.

Shitbags?

Get a grip. We're talking about the actual fucking performances not some idealized version of best or worst or whatever.

If you can't handle that then stay out of the thread.

And it's not silly to consider selling a player of genuine value at just past his apex. The cunts across the road did it nearly impeccably and drafted in replacements and bolstered the squad. Everyone does that who's at the top of their game...Madrid, juve, Milan, Munich, etc...esss normallll.

Cheers

after having such an incredible start to the season our defending has been shocking recently. 0 clean sheets in the last 8 or 9 and we're conceding fluke goals. how has Ederson not saved that Schlupp shot? That bullshit against Watford?

Defence wins championships and right now our defence looks awful. flat awful.

Saul Goodman wrote:after having such an incredible start to the season our defending has been shocking recently. 0 clean sheets in the last 8 or 9 and we're conceding fluke goals. how has Ederson not saved that Schlupp shot? That bullshit against Watford?

Defence wins championships and right now our defence looks awful. flat awful.

Some might argue, but not having Bravo near him affects how Eddie performs so far this season.
That almost pen he gave in the last minutes happend the same way already 3 times this year.

Otamendi has been Shite in most of the games he has played so far this season shadow of player from last season. Stones and Laporte should be starting together for me when possible. Left back is a major worry, Delph does a job but Zinchenko for me doesn’t have any defensive instincts. Walker also dropped off hugely last few weeks aswell. We don’t look near as solid as we did early season which is a real worry.