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twosips wrote:

Nick wrote:Agree with all the above, only things I'll add are:

1) Most importantly, why the fcuk do all the clubs go after the same players? Pretty sure theres more world class quality than Pogba and Reus. Yes they are class but every c*** and his dog want them. I don't remember Chelsea and Madrid trailling Silva, Yaya or Aguero at the time. I can scout Pogba and Reus, we need the next best thing. Mangala seems like that kind of level yet hes already over hyped, wanted by everyone and we paid STAR QUALITY price.

2) We all agree we would be shit hot if we signed the players we missed; mainly Isco, SANCHEZ (don't forget) and Hazard. But aren't all of those 3 players adding to our existing problem/moan that silva, nasri, yaya don't do the running? I don't think either of Isco, Sanchez or Hazard are partners for Dinho in the middle.....

It's easy to say that, but who are they? The problem is that all potentially good players are known by all clubs. You just don't find gems that others don't know about anymore.

I'm not sure but we're not full time on scouting. I don't think zaba or Vinnie were ''huge known quantities''. Vinnie was a football manager type name who clubs had looked at (Like Christian Zapata) but nobody made a move for him. I was pleasantly surprised when we signed him. I'd not heard of Zaba.

Now if we were to find the next zaba now, I'm sure we would be paying 15,20m+ but the difference is we wouldn't have Madrid, Chelsea etc all pushing the price up and us losing out on the player (as with Sanchez, Isco, Hazard, Tiago Silva etc. for various reasons)

An example is Coutinho. Or any of the left backs Chelsea have bought. They get quality left backs for cheap whereas we pay 12m+ for Kolorov who is pants compared to Chelsea's pair.

I don't want much European football anymore but these forums are full of suggestions of names we could go for.

Koke sounds like he could fill a whole and I've not heard rumours that all the other big teams are buying him.

I think if FFP wasn't an issue we would have paid £30m plus for Barkley. This looked like good business at the time and blues everywhere were crying out for us to pay the price; but hes been crap this season.....

It seems like we wait for other clubs to take a risk on a player and then try and sign them 1-2 years later for an extra 10-20m.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Nick wrote:Agree with all the above, only things I'll add are:

1) Most importantly, why the fcuk do all the clubs go after the same players? Pretty sure theres more world class quality than Pogba and Reus. Yes they are class but every c*** and his dog want them. I don't remember Chelsea and Madrid trailling Silva, Yaya or Aguero at the time. I can scout Pogba and Reus, we need the next best thing. Mangala seems like that kind of level yet hes already over hyped, wanted by everyone and we paid STAR QUALITY price.

2) We all agree we would be shit hot if we signed the players we missed; mainly Isco, SANCHEZ (don't forget) and Hazard. But aren't all of those 3 players adding to our existing problem/moan that silva, nasri, yaya don't do the running? I don't think either of Isco, Sanchez or Hazard are partners for Dinho in the middle.....

I think it's the right balance we lack, not quality, & we need to add both in the next couple of seasons. Hazard would have been ideal as he runs with the ball, but we wouldn't want all 3 unless we ditched Silva, Yaya, Nasri & we wouldn't want all 3 in the same team. We have that now in a way, & it doesn't work at the top level.

The truth imo, is we have never had the right balance to do what we needed to, in order to live with the Bayerns & Barcas. If they were to meet us on the wrong day though, we would fucking exterminate them, but we have to be at our absolute best & we can't keep it up. Our averagel performance, under Mancini's system, under Pellegrini's system, is as good or better than typical Chelsea, Arse, Liverpool, rags, so we are thereabouts in each title race.

But we have weaknesses, & if we are off our game, they are easy to exploit. Especially for the best.

Re 1: I would like us to identify the players who will become Pogba etc & sign them, to go with our kids, then have Silva etc play alongside them. The money being quoted for Pogba is twice what he is worth. Last year it was Vidal the same.

Good point re: Vidal. Last season ''the only'' players capable of playing in a City midfield without Yaya were Barkley, Vidal and Pogba.

Its as if certain players have a few good games, get overhyped and thousands of fans kid themselves into believing they are the best player since sliced bread. I must admit I've seen little of Pogba but am already assuming he would be amazing in a City shirt.

Its nothing new, as I remember a few posters on this forum had me believing Ousmane Dabo was going to the De Jong of his day. The difference re: scouting is that its almost as if a few names get bandied about and then ALL the teams competing with each other go after them (the rumour was we only wanted Nasri to stop United getting him... Why didn't we do that with Fabgregas?). Who knows, maybe scouting elite players is just like Nike and Kit making..........

don't agents like george mendes control who goes where, when and for how much?

Nick wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Nick wrote:Agree with all the above, only things I'll add are:

1) Most importantly, why the fcuk do all the clubs go after the same players? Pretty sure theres more world class quality than Pogba and Reus. Yes they are class but every c*** and his dog want them. I don't remember Chelsea and Madrid trailling Silva, Yaya or Aguero at the time. I can scout Pogba and Reus, we need the next best thing. Mangala seems like that kind of level yet hes already over hyped, wanted by everyone and we paid STAR QUALITY price.

2) We all agree we would be shit hot if we signed the players we missed; mainly Isco, SANCHEZ (don't forget) and Hazard. But aren't all of those 3 players adding to our existing problem/moan that silva, nasri, yaya don't do the running? I don't think either of Isco, Sanchez or Hazard are partners for Dinho in the middle.....

I think it's the right balance we lack, not quality, & we need to add both in the next couple of seasons. Hazard would have been ideal as he runs with the ball, but we wouldn't want all 3 unless we ditched Silva, Yaya, Nasri & we wouldn't want all 3 in the same team. We have that now in a way, & it doesn't work at the top level.

The truth imo, is we have never had the right balance to do what we needed to, in order to live with the Bayerns & Barcas. If they were to meet us on the wrong day though, we would fucking exterminate them, but we have to be at our absolute best & we can't keep it up. Our averagel performance, under Mancini's system, under Pellegrini's system, is as good or better than typical Chelsea, Arse, Liverpool, rags, so we are thereabouts in each title race.

But we have weaknesses, & if we are off our game, they are easy to exploit. Especially for the best.

Re 1: I would like us to identify the players who will become Pogba etc & sign them, to go with our kids, then have Silva etc play alongside them. The money being quoted for Pogba is twice what he is worth. Last year it was Vidal the same.

Good point re: Vidal. Last season ''the only'' players capable of playing in a City midfield without Yaya were Barkley, Vidal and Pogba.

Its as if certain players have a few good games, get overhyped and thousands of fans kid themselves into believing they are the best player since sliced bread. I must admit I've seen little of Pogba but am already assuming he would be amazing in a City shirt.

Its nothing new, as I remember a few posters on this forum had me believing Ousmane Dabo was going to the De Jong of his day. The difference re: scouting is that its almost as if a few names get bandied about and then ALL the teams competing with each other go after them (the rumour was we only wanted Nasri to stop United getting him... Why didn't we do that with Fabgregas?). Who knows, maybe scouting elite players is just like Nike and Kit making..........

I think Pogba would be a great signing for City, but he wouldn't solve our problems. He would just be a good signing. All the stuff we need to fix would still need fixing.

Nick wrote:

twosips wrote:

Nick wrote:Agree with all the above, only things I'll add are:

1) Most importantly, why the fcuk do all the clubs go after the same players? Pretty sure theres more world class quality than Pogba and Reus. Yes they are class but every c*** and his dog want them. I don't remember Chelsea and Madrid trailling Silva, Yaya or Aguero at the time. I can scout Pogba and Reus, we need the next best thing. Mangala seems like that kind of level yet hes already over hyped, wanted by everyone and we paid STAR QUALITY price.

2) We all agree we would be shit hot if we signed the players we missed; mainly Isco, SANCHEZ (don't forget) and Hazard. But aren't all of those 3 players adding to our existing problem/moan that silva, nasri, yaya don't do the running? I don't think either of Isco, Sanchez or Hazard are partners for Dinho in the middle.....

It's easy to say that, but who are they? The problem is that all potentially good players are known by all clubs. You just don't find gems that others don't know about anymore.

I'm not sure but we're not full time on scouting. I don't think zaba or Vinnie were ''huge known quantities''. Vinnie was a football manager type name who clubs had looked at (Like Christian Zapata) but nobody made a move for him. I was pleasantly surprised when we signed him. I'd not heard of Zaba.

Now if we were to find the next zaba now, I'm sure we would be paying 15,20m+ but the difference is we wouldn't have Madrid, Chelsea etc all pushing the price up and us losing out on the player (as with Sanchez, Isco, Hazard, Tiago Silva etc. for various reasons)

An example is Coutinho. Or any of the left backs Chelsea have bought. They get quality left backs for cheap whereas we pay 12m+ for Kolorov who is pants compared to Chelsea's pair.

I don't want much European football anymore but these forums are full of suggestions of names we could go for.

Koke sounds like he could fill a whole and I've not heard rumours that all the other big teams are buying him.

I think if FFP wasn't an issue we would have paid £30m plus for Barkley. This looked like good business at the time and blues everywhere were crying out for us to pay the price; but hes been crap this season.....

It seems like we wait for other clubs to take a risk on a player and then try and sign them 1-2 years later for an extra 10-20m.

For every Coutinho there's an Aspas or in our circumstance someone like Fernando who struggles to set in. If we went after the 'next' stars more can you imagine the uproar if they didnt immediately settle in? "WHY ARE WE GOING FOR C-LISTERS AND NOT TOP CLASS PLAYERS"...worth nothing that Coutinho is still patchy in form and has been since he signed. My point is that it's catch 22 and always will be. Bargain hunting is usually too good to be true. Kompany and Zabaleta were not the players they are now when they joined us - in fact they'd probably not get in our team if they joined now with the ability they had back then (Zaba especially who got better season on season but was rash and inconsistent at first) and most likely they'd never have developed to what they are now as a result. There's always that to consider. When they signed we were top 5 challengers and not the club we are today. Champions.

So who do we think are must have's and nice to have's? You can tell I'm in work...

Must Have: Quality Left Back
Must Have: Quality Gareth Barry with pace(x2??)
Must Have: Quality Keeper (to push Hart)

Nice to Have: David Silva backup
Nice to Have: Right Back? Sagna should be adding a lot more to our season; but I feel he's been left wanting a lot of the rare time he's been playing.

Some people will say we need a CB, but Mangala will improve. Denayer looks quality and surely Vinnie will improve.

I think a bigger concern is the more attacking aspect of our team to be honest.

twosips wrote:

Nick wrote:

twosips wrote:

Nick wrote:Agree with all the above, only things I'll add are:

1) Most importantly, why the fcuk do all the clubs go after the same players? Pretty sure theres more world class quality than Pogba and Reus. Yes they are class but every c*** and his dog want them. I don't remember Chelsea and Madrid trailling Silva, Yaya or Aguero at the time. I can scout Pogba and Reus, we need the next best thing. Mangala seems like that kind of level yet hes already over hyped, wanted by everyone and we paid STAR QUALITY price.

2) We all agree we would be shit hot if we signed the players we missed; mainly Isco, SANCHEZ (don't forget) and Hazard. But aren't all of those 3 players adding to our existing problem/moan that silva, nasri, yaya don't do the running? I don't think either of Isco, Sanchez or Hazard are partners for Dinho in the middle.....

It's easy to say that, but who are they? The problem is that all potentially good players are known by all clubs. You just don't find gems that others don't know about anymore.

I'm not sure but we're not full time on scouting. I don't think zaba or Vinnie were ''huge known quantities''. Vinnie was a football manager type name who clubs had looked at (Like Christian Zapata) but nobody made a move for him. I was pleasantly surprised when we signed him. I'd not heard of Zaba.

Now if we were to find the next zaba now, I'm sure we would be paying 15,20m+ but the difference is we wouldn't have Madrid, Chelsea etc all pushing the price up and us losing out on the player (as with Sanchez, Isco, Hazard, Tiago Silva etc. for various reasons)

An example is Coutinho. Or any of the left backs Chelsea have bought. They get quality left backs for cheap whereas we pay 12m+ for Kolorov who is pants compared to Chelsea's pair.

I don't want much European football anymore but these forums are full of suggestions of names we could go for.

Koke sounds like he could fill a whole and I've not heard rumours that all the other big teams are buying him.

I think if FFP wasn't an issue we would have paid £30m plus for Barkley. This looked like good business at the time and blues everywhere were crying out for us to pay the price; but hes been crap this season.....

It seems like we wait for other clubs to take a risk on a player and then try and sign them 1-2 years later for an extra 10-20m.

For every Coutinho there's an Aspas or in our circumstance someone like Fernando who struggles to set in. If we went after the 'next' stars more can you imagine the uproar if they didnt immediately settle in? "WHY ARE WE GOING FOR C-LISTERS AND NOT TOP CLASS PLAYERS"...worth nothing that Coutinho is still patchy in form and has been since he signed. My point is that it's catch 22 and always will be. Bargain hunting is usually too good to be true. Kompany and Zabaleta were not the players they are now when they joined us - in fact they'd probably not get in our team if they joined now with the ability they had back then (Zaba especially who got better season on season but was rash and inconsistent at first) and most likely they'd never have developed to what they are now as a result. There's always that to consider. When they signed we were top 5 challengers and not the club we are today. Champions.

I take your point. I think Vinnie was instant class in CM (something we need now) and then went on to develop at CB.

Re: Fernando, to me it emphasises the issue we have is with system and blend of players. I don't think Fernando is doing much wrong as a pure defensive mid; and is often back covering for the centre backs. The problem is we seem to need more than this. We need another Fernandinho, a player who can do the pure defensive covering, but then can stretch teams and run up the other end of the pitch or pick out 50 yard passes like Yaya can.

I think it has been said by someone on here before, but I would like to see Denayer, Lopes and possibly Iheanacho in the squad next year.
I would probably like to see a couple more, but others would be better place to say whether the likes of Angelino and Maffeo would be worth a place as cover for the full back positions.
I think if not this summer, in one go, then definitely over the next two summers I would like to see at least 5-6 of the regulars moved on and possibly only 3-4 replaced by absolute guaranteed quality additions. (how you guarantee anything in the Premiership I don't know). These are The A-listers that you know you are going to have to pay premium for. The rest I would like to see filled by home grown talent coming through.
Who those 3-4 would be? Others I'm sure could speculate better than me, but I'm sure it would come down to availability as much as anything else.
Pogba/Isco/Reus I'd have no objections to, like anyone else. Whether there's any truth in their availability or not, I don't know.
Personally I quite like the work rate of Navas, I know a lot of people don't rate him. If we could get two good A-List wingers that worked as hard as he does, I think it would make a hell of a difference, to the balance of the team.

Dybala is one of those smaller names that looks like they could become a huge star, but even his club Palermo are making ridiculous noises about him being worth £40m etc... It's hard signing young exiting talent these days, hence why maybe trusting the academy a bit more is sometimes a better option.

I think that goes for every position in the midfield. If we had an A list player who works as hard as Navas in each spot, we could play any system.

twosips wrote:Dybala is one of those smaller names that looks like they could become a huge star, but even his club Palermo are making ridiculous noises about him being worth £40m etc... It's hard signing young exiting talent these days, hence why maybe trusting the academy a bit more is sometimes a better option.

I like the look of Dybala.

I think we should be looking at Lopes, Iheanacho, Denayer as full first team squad members next season, then occasional games given to about ten others. If anyone does a Giggs, & takes to it early, then they should instantly become regulars alongside those 3. Season after, offload several of the players who are losing out to the kids & replace with younger ones.

When these kids are 21, I want to see half the squad at least made up from them, & the other half average age about 25, with one or two old heads.

Nick wrote:Agree with all the above, only things I'll add are:

1) Most importantly, why the fcuk do all the clubs go after the same players? Pretty sure theres more world class quality than Pogba and Reus. Yes they are class but every c*** and his dog want them. I don't remember Chelsea and Madrid trailling Silva, Yaya or Aguero at the time. I can scout Pogba and Reus, we need the next best thing. Mangala seems like that kind of level yet hes already over hyped, wanted by everyone and we paid STAR QUALITY price.

2) We all agree we would be shit hot if we signed the players we missed; mainly Isco, SANCHEZ (don't forget) and Hazard. But aren't all of those 3 players adding to our existing problem/moan that silva, nasri, yaya don't do the running? I don't think either of Isco, Sanchez or Hazard are partners for Dinho in the middle.....

There's no such thing as the next big thing that's unheard of. Scouting networks these days cover every single player in the world with an ounce of talent. Plus, the moment City or another big club come in for a young star, his agent will be all over it, spreading news to the papers and letting every club in Europe know exactly who's after him.

AntMcfc wrote:

Nick wrote:Agree with all the above, only things I'll add are:

1) Most importantly, why the fcuk do all the clubs go after the same players? Pretty sure theres more world class quality than Pogba and Reus. Yes they are class but every c*** and his dog want them. I don't remember Chelsea and Madrid trailling Silva, Yaya or Aguero at the time. I can scout Pogba and Reus, we need the next best thing. Mangala seems like that kind of level yet hes already over hyped, wanted by everyone and we paid STAR QUALITY price.

2) We all agree we would be shit hot if we signed the players we missed; mainly Isco, SANCHEZ (don't forget) and Hazard. But aren't all of those 3 players adding to our existing problem/moan that silva, nasri, yaya don't do the running? I don't think either of Isco, Sanchez or Hazard are partners for Dinho in the middle.....

There's no such thing as the next big thing that's unheard of. Scouting networks these days cover every single player in the world with an ounce of talent. Plus, the moment City or another big club come in for a young star, his agent will be all over it, spreading news to the papers and letting every club in Europe know exactly who's after him.

But believing the media - which I'm tending to do more and more with Txixi in charge; the only midfielders we are looking at are:

Pogba (big money)
Reus (unrealistic??)
Barkley (crap season and overpriced)
Koke

No other midfielders in world football would improve us? I think we need 1-3, not just one. That's without cashing in on Yaya or him throwing another wobble.

Naingollen(?) of Roma looks tasty to me. The lad with the stupid haircut i think. Box to box and tigerish in the tackle. Scores the odd goal as well. Serbian/Croatian i think or from round those parts. More fire in his belly than some in our squad for sure

nottsblue wrote:Naingollen(?) of Roma looks tasty to me. The lad with the stupid haircut i think. Box to box and tigerish in the tackle. Scores the odd goal as well. Serbian/Croatian i think or from round those parts. More fire in his belly than some in our squad for sure

close
belgian / indonesian

Nigels Tackle wrote:

nottsblue wrote:Naingollen(?) of Roma looks tasty to me. The lad with the stupid haircut i think. Box to box and tigerish in the tackle. Scores the odd goal as well. Serbian/Croatian i think or from round those parts. More fire in his belly than some in our squad for sure

close
belgian / indonesian

Indonesian? Bugger me. Still a tasty player though

nottsblue wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

nottsblue wrote:Naingollen(?) of Roma looks tasty to me. The lad with the stupid haircut i think. Box to box and tigerish in the tackle. Scores the odd goal as well. Serbian/Croatian i think or from round those parts. More fire in his belly than some in our squad for sure

close
belgian / indonesian

Indonesian? Bugger me. Still a tasty player though

it would help our deal with extra joss over there...

Nigels Tackle wrote:

nottsblue wrote:

Nigels Tackle wrote:

nottsblue wrote:Naingollen(?) of Roma looks tasty to me. The lad with the stupid haircut i think. Box to box and tigerish in the tackle. Scores the odd goal as well. Serbian/Croatian i think or from round those parts. More fire in his belly than some in our squad for sure

close
belgian / indonesian

Indonesian? Bugger me. Still a tasty player though

it would help our deal with extra joss over there...

Amused.

Well played. Yr like Kasparov amongst children playing Chinese checkers sometimes.

Not often. But sometimes.

Cheers

Nick wrote:

twosips wrote:

Nick wrote:Agree with all the above, only things I'll add are:

1) Most importantly, why the fcuk do all the clubs go after the same players? Pretty sure theres more world class quality than Pogba and Reus. Yes they are class but every c*** and his dog want them. I don't remember Chelsea and Madrid trailling Silva, Yaya or Aguero at the time. I can scout Pogba and Reus, we need the next best thing. Mangala seems like that kind of level yet hes already over hyped, wanted by everyone and we paid STAR QUALITY price.

2) We all agree we would be shit hot if we signed the players we missed; mainly Isco, SANCHEZ (don't forget) and Hazard. But aren't all of those 3 players adding to our existing problem/moan that silva, nasri, yaya don't do the running? I don't think either of Isco, Sanchez or Hazard are partners for Dinho in the middle.....

It's easy to say that, but who are they? The problem is that all potentially good players are known by all clubs. You just don't find gems that others don't know about anymore.

I'm not sure but we're not full time on scouting. I don't think zaba or Vinnie were ''huge known quantities''. Vinnie was a football manager type name who clubs had looked at (Like Christian Zapata) but nobody made a move for him. I was pleasantly surprised when we signed him. I'd not heard of Zaba.

Now if we were to find the next zaba now, I'm sure we would be paying 15,20m+ but the difference is we wouldn't have Madrid, Chelsea etc all pushing the price up and us losing out on the player (as with Sanchez, Isco, Hazard, Tiago Silva etc. for various reasons)

An example is Coutinho. Or any of the left backs Chelsea have bought. They get quality left backs for cheap whereas we pay 12m+ for Kolorov who is pants compared to Chelsea's pair.

I don't want much European football anymore but these forums are full of suggestions of names we could go for.

Koke sounds like he could fill a whole and I've not heard rumours that all the other big teams are buying him.

I think if FFP wasn't an issue we would have paid £30m plus for Barkley. This looked like good business at the time and blues everywhere were crying out for us to pay the price; but hes been crap this season.....

It seems like we wait for other clubs to take a risk on a player and then try and sign them 1-2 years later for an extra 10-20m.

If we hadn't gotten the wedge tho Pabs and Vincent would have moved on as soon as they showed their quality...so it's not as much as a big club finding a diamond as it is the natural progression based simply on the numbers of players etc...

Cheers