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South Stand Balti wrote:I see Niall Quinn is saying MP has damaged his reputation by the way we set up against Barca and the Dipprrs. Souness saying the same.

And they are right in saying so imho. I think the time has come where his job is genuinely on the line .

Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way.

Do we actually know what the current team limit is?

When Sergio and Nasri came in 2011, our team reached a new level. From that point, 4 years now, our only step further was Pellers. Maybe the problem is not the system, how we set the lads in the match and so on, but maybe it's in the quality of the transfers.

Let's face it, Nasri was the last world class player we got. We missed two targets that could had made us look very different now and those are Hazard and Isco. Imagine Isco, Hazard and Dave behind Sergio, with Yaya and a fit Fernandinho.

We paid almost 80 mil for Nastasic, Garcia, Sinclar, Rodwel, Mangala, Fernando. Do you imagine that? 80 mil and i am not throwing Jojo in this list. I understand there is the FFP involved, but just imagine.

PeterParker wrote:Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way.

Do we actually know what the current team limit is?

When Sergio and Nasri came in 2011, our team reached a new level. From that point, 4 years now, our only step further was Pellers. Maybe the problem is not the system, how we set the lads in the match and so on, but maybe it's in the quality of the transfers.

Let's face it, Nasri was the last world class player we got. We missed two targets that could had made us look very different now and those are Hazard and Isco. Imagine Isco, Hazard and Dave behind Sergio, with Yaya and a fit Fernandinho.

We paid almost 80 mil for Nastasic, Garcia, Sinclar, Rodwel, Mangala, Fernando. Do you imagine that? 80 mil and i am not throwing Jojo in this list. I understand there is the FFP involved, but just imagine.

Nasri is nowhere near world class. But other than that I take your point. We need a mega signing as well as the promotion of youth

PeterParker wrote:Maybe we are looking at this the wrong way.

Do we actually know what the current team limit is?

When Sergio and Nasri came in 2011, our team reached a new level. From that point, 4 years now, our only step further was Pellers. Maybe the problem is not the system, how we set the lads in the match and so on, but maybe it's in the quality of the transfers.

Let's face it, Nasri was the last world class player we got. We missed two targets that could had made us look very different now and those are Hazard and Isco. Imagine Isco, Hazard and Dave behind Sergio, with Yaya and a fit Fernandinho.

We paid almost 80 mil for Nastasic, Garcia, Sinclar, Rodwel, Mangala, Fernando. Do you imagine that? 80 mil and i am not throwing Jojo in this list. I understand there is the FFP involved, but just imagine.

Agreed. More than half of that money was n fernando and Mangala. I don't know who chose them but whoever it was needs at least a verbal warning for not havng a fuckng clue how to do their job.

Check out Jackson Martinez set up tonight for Porto, what football is all about. Wow.

City64 wrote:

South Stand Balti wrote:I see Niall Quinn is saying MP has damaged his reputation by the way we set up against Barca and the Dipprrs. Souness saying the same.

And they are right in saying so imho. I think the time has come where his job is genuinely on the line .

Niall Quinn was just spurting out the same old shit about 442 etc etc. someone correct me but did Milner not come on for dzeko, where was this 442 then?.
442 451 3511 fucking 1111111 whatever if they don't work hard, and show some determination it matters little what way they line up. We were second to every ball 2nd half.
Silvas little sulk was a clear example of a lazy por attitude. Application or lack of is what cost that game.

Ted Hughes wrote:

blues2win wrote:We could try a 4-2-3-1 system. The two Ferns in front of the back four. Silva Yaya and Navas playing in central midfield with Aguero up front. Aguero needs support if it's to work but it allows the full backs to push up and we get the pace of Navas and Yaya allowed to express himself further up the pitch without too much in the way of defensive duties. That still leaves Nasri Lampard Dzeko and Bony available to bring on. The alternative would be 4-3-3 with the two Ferns and Yaya in central midfield and Silva and Navas up alongside Aguero. That would be more adventurous. 4 in central midfield is a very old fashioned way to play and we haven't actually got a front two who play very well together. Maybe Aguero and Bony will hit it off but Aguero and Dzeko rarely have imo. Aguero's quite a selfish cunt as a lot of top strikers are so its not necessarily Dzeko's fault.

Aguero and Dzeko were great today though. Best I've ever seen them together I think.

Nice linkup 1st half, but Aguero hasn't looked fit to play past 45 mins since he returned. Dzeko plays like he knows one of them will be subbed and doesn't want it to be him, but it always is.

sheblue wrote:

City64 wrote:

South Stand Balti wrote:I see Niall Quinn is saying MP has damaged his reputation by the way we set up against Barca and the Dipprrs. Souness saying the same.

And they are right in saying so imho. I think the time has come where his job is genuinely on the line .

Niall Quinn was just spurting out the same old shit about 442 etc etc. someone correct me but did Milner not come on for dzeko, where was this 442 then?.
442 451 3511 fucking 1111111 whatever if they don't work hard, and show some determination it matters little what way they line up. We were second to every ball 2nd half.
Silvas little sulk was a clear example of a lazy por attitude. Application or lack of is what cost that game.

Spot on. The midfield is where we are losing it. Nasri, Silva and Yaya are too attack minded, and don't press the opposition or track back leaving Fernandinho (or whoever else is in his position) on his own to protect the back 4. Teams are running through our midfield as if it isn't there and Kompany and Co must be left thinking wtf is going on. We need more athletic (possibly quicker) and harder working players in the middle of the park so that we can play an effective pressing game. Admittedly we are not defending well at the moment but what protection are they given? Absolutely none and when the opposition are constantly running at them they are going to make mistakes - any defence in the world would. Teams like Bayern and Barca are successful and concede relatively few goals not because they have a better defence than us but because they constantly press the opposition and rarely give them any time on the ball thus putting their defence under less pressure. Until we start doing this for 90 mins (not just the first 10 mins or so) we are not going to win games like the 2 played this week.

Pretty Boy Lee wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

blues2win wrote:We could try a 4-2-3-1 system. The two Ferns in front of the back four. Silva Yaya and Navas playing in central midfield with Aguero up front. Aguero needs support if it's to work but it allows the full backs to push up and we get the pace of Navas and Yaya allowed to express himself further up the pitch without too much in the way of defensive duties. That still leaves Nasri Lampard Dzeko and Bony available to bring on. The alternative would be 4-3-3 with the two Ferns and Yaya in central midfield and Silva and Navas up alongside Aguero. That would be more adventurous. 4 in central midfield is a very old fashioned way to play and we haven't actually got a front two who play very well together. Maybe Aguero and Bony will hit it off but Aguero and Dzeko rarely have imo. Aguero's quite a selfish cunt as a lot of top strikers are so its not necessarily Dzeko's fault.

Aguero and Dzeko were great today though. Best I've ever seen them together I think.

Nice linkup 1st half, but Aguero hasn't looked fit to play past 45 mins since he returned. Dzeko plays like he knows one of them will be subbed and doesn't want it to be him, but it always is.

Spot on about Kun - said to the Mrs that he looked knackered in the second half yesterday.

Milner the ideal candidate then. Except if got worse. There was nowhere to go with the ball.

Haven't read all of this but the initial point is something I noticed. Very early on I sat up and thought " we are up for this" as the energy and pressing seemed to be there. Having been brainwashed into thinking Liverpool would be tired after their trip bla bla I felt a little early confidence.

It really didn't last long as the first time they found a way out and a pass to a free player who could turn and run at us the belief seemed to disappear instantly and from there on we seemed not to know what to do.There was an element of pressing but not as a team and inevitably the old problems came through as we lacked the energy levels of the opposition.They always seemed to have free players to play easily through us and then came across a back 4 or 5 who were not playing well individually.

I just wonder if the team are fully behind the way we are " expected" to play. Seems very much like Mancini's final year

Having said all that we were beaten by 2 special shots from outside the box!

Well I can only comment on what I see but it seems to me that we lack energy in all of the of the big games this season bar Roma away.Too many good teams just simply out run our midfield leaving our back four exposed.What is really puzzling is that our best run form was when we had no strikers available.

freshie wrote:

sheblue wrote:

City64 wrote:

South Stand Balti wrote:I see Niall Quinn is saying MP has damaged his reputation by the way we set up against Barca and the Dipprrs. Souness saying the same.

And they are right in saying so imho. I think the time has come where his job is genuinely on the line .

Niall Quinn was just spurting out the same old shit about 442 etc etc. someone correct me but did Milner not come on for dzeko, where was this 442 then?.
<a href="tel:442 451 3511">442 451 3511</a> fucking <a href="tel:1111111">1111111</a> whatever if they don't work hard, and show some determination it matters little what way they line up. We were second to every ball 2nd half.
Silvas little sulk was a clear example of a lazy por attitude. Application or lack of is what cost that game.

Spot on. The midfield is where we are losing it. Nasri, Silva and Yaya are too attack minded, and don't press the opposition or track back leaving Fernandinho (or whoever else is in his position) on his own to protect the back 4. Teams are running through our midfield as if it isn't there and Kompany and Co must be left thinking wtf is going on. We need more athletic (possibly quicker) and harder working players in the middle of the park so that we can play an effective pressing game. Admittedly we are not defending well at the moment but what protection are they given? Absolutely none and when the opposition are constantly running at them they are going to make mistakes - any defence in the world would. Teams like Bayern and Barca are successful and concede relatively few goals not because they have a better defence than us but because they constantly press the opposition and rarely give them any time on the ball thus putting their defence under less pressure. Until we start doing this for 90 mins (not just the first 10 mins or so) we are not going to win games like the 2 played this week.

Whatever system Pellegrini is telling the players to play it isn't working , the effort doesn't seem to be there plus loads of mistakes happening on the pitch , this will only end one way it isn't good enough or hasn't been good enough this season.

The world cup showed what happens when organised teams with loads of effort play. We look like Spain did, swanning about, thinking our superior football will get us through whilst being overrun.

Football has evolved and we've stood still with an aging and fairly pedestrian squad. That we were out fought and overrun by Arsenal should have set the alarm bells ringing and the scary thing is it's something most premier league teams could do to us if they see the weakness

blues2win wrote:We could try a 4-2-3-1 system. The two Ferns in front of the back four. Silva Yaya and Navas playing in central midfield with Aguero up front. Aguero needs support if it's to work but it allows the full backs to push up and we get the pace of Navas and Yaya allowed to express himself further up the pitch without too much in the way of defensive duties. That still leaves Nasri Lampard Dzeko and Bony available to bring on. The alternative would be 4-3-3 with the two Ferns and Yaya in central midfield and Silva and Navas up alongside Aguero. That would be more adventurous. 4 in central midfield is a very old fashioned way to play and we haven't actually got a front two who play very well together. Maybe Aguero and Bony will hit it off but Aguero and Dzeko rarely have imo. Aguero's quite a selfish cunt as a lot of top strikers are so its not necessarily Dzeko's fault.

This is the type of formation that I have been wanting to see for a while now - but using Nasri, I could see Aguero up front with Ya Ya behind and Silva and Nasri left and right. That is a high quality front 4 offering a lot of creativity and I could see them forming almost telepathic levels of understanding. With the 2 Ferds behind there is a lot of cover for the back 4 and link-up play with the front 4.

All the rest are replacements for those positions, e.g. Bony for Aguero, Navas for Nasri etc. and the formation should not be broken just to give game-time. This unfortunately means that some really good players, e.g. Dzeko, do not fit the system and only have roles if they are willing to play bit parts when 'in-game tactics' necessitate a change of formation - perhaps 442 when chasing a game.

I think that we need a preferred (correct) formation and commitment to stick to it. Unfortunately we do have one and are sticking to it but it is the wrong one IMO. Of course as a lot of posts comment, this formation like all others only works if there is the appropriate work being put in my all players.

There are adaptations of course - I would have made such an adaptation for the Barca game (and certainly not 442), but I think that a formation like this as a 'model' would really work.

Blue Since 76 wrote:The world cup showed what happens when organised teams with loads of effort play. We look like Spain did, swanning about, thinking our superior football will get us through whilst being overrun.

Football has evolved and we've stood still with an aging and fairly pedestrian squad. That we were out fought and overrun by Arsenal should have set the alarm bells ringing and the scary thing is it's something most premier league teams could do to us if they see the weakness

This is our main weakness and has been all season. We dont put in the effort when we dont have the ball and its borne out of sheer arrogance and is very unprofessional. People can talk on about formations and how we set up but if we cant put the effort in to collectively win the ball back we are going nowhere.

Our training sessions need an intensity that i do wonder if its there

Blue Since 76 wrote:The world cup showed what happens when organised teams with loads of effort play. We look like Spain did, swanning about, thinking our superior football will get us through whilst being overrun.

Football has evolved and we've stood still with an aging and fairly pedestrian squad. That we were out fought and overrun by Arsenal should have set the alarm bells ringing and the scary thing is it's something most premier league teams could do to us if they see the weakness

If only happened to Spain because they played like City, rather than like Barca or Bayern Munich.

In the past they played with more energy.

Football has evolved yes. And it's evolved to where people like Pellegrini are trying to go, not to where people like fucking Souness and Carragher used to be.

Lest we forget, it was Barca who were running rings round us midweek & Bayern who were running rings round our 5 man midfield, with ten men.

If you lookup Nasri & Silva it says 'attacking midfielder'. If you look up Messi Neymar & Suarez it says 'forward'.

Barca plated v City's 4 man midfield, with 3.

They do as they are told & fucking leg it to get the ball back. Then they keep it.

The rest is dumbing down by Sky.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Blue Since 76 wrote:The world cup showed what happens when organised teams with loads of effort play. We look like Spain did, swanning about, thinking our superior football will get us through whilst being overrun.

Football has evolved and we've stood still with an aging and fairly pedestrian squad. That we were out fought and overrun by Arsenal should have set the alarm bells ringing and the scary thing is it's something most premier league teams could do to us if they see the weakness

If only happened to Spain because they played like City, rather than like Barca or Bayern Munich.

In the past they played with more energy.

Football has evolved yes. And it's evolved to where people like Pellegrini are trying to go, not to where people like fucking Souness and Carragher used to be.

Lest we forget, it was Barca who were running rings round us midweek & Bayern who were running rings round our 5 man midfield, with ten men.

If you lookup Nasri & Silva it says 'attacking midfielder'. If you look up Messi Neymar & Suarez it says 'forward'.

Barca plated v City's 4 man midfield, with 3.

They do as they are told & fucking leg it to get the ball back. Then they keep it.

The rest is dumbing down by Sky.

Not sure what Sky has to do with us being shit, Ted. And as for evolved to where Pellegrini wants to go, well maybe it has, but I'm not seeing any evidence of it. He's starting to look like a dinosaur and the team's lack of effort has to come from him.

That 7.5 mins has been seen before, start well, miss a bagful and get away with it, we even missed sitters on Tuesday night, Everton away should have 4-0 at HT we were hanging on, Top teams see our weakness and exploit all day long what does the manager do about it nothing. Sitting on your hands is not good enough.

Blue Since 76 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Blue Since 76 wrote:The world cup showed what happens when organised teams with loads of effort play. We look like Spain did, swanning about, thinking our superior football will get us through whilst being overrun.

Football has evolved and we've stood still with an aging and fairly pedestrian squad. That we were out fought and overrun by Arsenal should have set the alarm bells ringing and the scary thing is it's something most premier league teams could do to us if they see the weakness

If only happened to Spain because they played like City, rather than like Barca or Bayern Munich.

In the past they played with more energy.

Football has evolved yes. And it's evolved to where people like Pellegrini are trying to go, not to where people like fucking Souness and Carragher used to be.

Lest we forget, it was Barca who were running rings round us midweek & Bayern who were running rings round our 5 man midfield, with ten men.

If you lookup Nasri & Silva it says 'attacking midfielder'. If you look up Messi Neymar & Suarez it says 'forward'.

Barca plated v City's 4 man midfield, with 3.

They do as they are told & fucking leg it to get the ball back. Then they keep it.

The rest is dumbing down by Sky.

Not sure what Sky has to do with us being shit, Ted. And as for evolved to where Pellegrini wants to go, well maybe it has, but I'm not seeing any evidence of it. He's starting to look like a dinosaur and the team's lack of effort has to come from him.

Well for one, we aren't shit. We have had a few games where we have played shit. We may not quite be good enough to be Champions of England by the end of this season, or knock Barcelona out of the Champions League. But we certainly aren't shit.

And the reference to Sky is because it's Sky & other simplistic tv/media pundits who are dumbing down what Pellegrini is doing & using it as a reason for when we lose, but it's not the reason when we win.

Carragher even said how an 'English manager' would get more stick for playing 442, when no Engilsh manager plays anything like the way City play or ever has.

We have had two intelligent pundits in Bellamy & Martinez who have explained it as is & a bunch of fucking philistines adapting what City do, to suit ther own agenda & quite a few City fans using them as an example to prove how 442 isn't working when we don't even fucking play 442.

Ferguson used to play 442. We are absolutely nothing like that except when we play Milner & Navas out wide. We don't defend like that with 4 across the middle when we lose the ball.

Carragher stops the fucking play shows 5 City players stood in a circle of the pitch doing fuck all & says it down to 442. Is it bollocks. You don't play 442 like that. When Liverpool scored the 2nd goal, every cunt was back there with 5 in midfield. But the talk is of how 442 was the problem. It's fucking nonsense.

As for the workrate being less under Pellegrini. No it isn't.