Qatar: Winter World Cup 2022

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Re: Qatar: Winter World Cup 2022

Postby Wonderwall » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:05 am

Im_Spartacus wrote:
I was talking about match going fans of each club, not how many go each week. There are 20 teams, so 700,000

From what I understand, certainly the education city stadium they have just announced is slated to be reduced in size from 40,000 down to about 25,000 after the tournament and retained for the use of the university there. I expect similar with the others they are building. I don't know what their big plan is, but in a number of cases the stadiums which are left as legacies will simply be turned over to the sports clubs. (Who already have newish, but smaller stadia. Yep, they will be mostly empty, much of the time though, but they do still harbour serious hopes of getting the Olympics at some point in the future and no doubt with the facilities will bid for the Asian cup and other regional events.

For people who keep saying that people are dying on the World Cup stadium projects, that's simply not true by the way. There is only one actually being worked on at the moment, and that's a redesign of the current national stadium which only a small number of people are working on currently. The designs for the others are only just being finalised. The deaths which are reported in Qatar are down to the fact that there are over 1,000,000 labourers grafting on various projects such as the metro, the roads, the new city north of Doha, office buildings, hotels etc, all of which were being built regardless of the World Cup as the infrastructure was really creaking here a year or two back.

Safety standards clearly aren't perfect, and there is of course the issue with not being able to leave the country freely (and I do agree with some of the reasons behind that rule), but to put it into perspective, in the uk the long term workplace death rate per 100,000 workers is 0.56, it's actually lower than this believe it or not in qatar.

It's hitting the news because of the sheer number of labourers in the country, and in fact the real news story is that the majority of people aren't dying of workplace accidents, but seemingly because of heart attacks (curiously mostly affecting Nepalis) which nobody seems able to explain. But even if all these unexplained deaths were included in the workplace statistic, it would be 5 out of every 100,000.....and you can't compare that to the British figure because every one of those is doing hard physical graft, the British stats include office jobs etc.

I'm certainly no apologist for the Qatari regime, but I'd just caution folk to look a little behind the screaming tabloid headlines before you believe everything you read or see on the telly.


I understand what Zuricity is saying. If you average the attendance to be 35k across the premier league, but there are only 10 games played by the 20 teams per weekend, then the 10 x 35k is 350k. However, thats not what I wanted to reply about.

You mentioned that Qatar may well want to get the Olympics. I am sure it is way too hot to hold it there in the summer and I am sure as hell there is not enough snow there to hold the winter Olympics. So, the only choice would be to hold the Summer Olympics in the winter....sounds familiar ;-)
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Re: Qatar: Winter World Cup 2022

Postby Im_Spartacus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:52 am

Wonderwall wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:
I was talking about match going fans of each club, not how many go each week. There are 20 teams, so 700,000

From what I understand, certainly the education city stadium they have just announced is slated to be reduced in size from 40,000 down to about 25,000 after the tournament and retained for the use of the university there. I expect similar with the others they are building. I don't know what their big plan is, but in a number of cases the stadiums which are left as legacies will simply be turned over to the sports clubs. (Who already have newish, but smaller stadia. Yep, they will be mostly empty, much of the time though, but they do still harbour serious hopes of getting the Olympics at some point in the future and no doubt with the facilities will bid for the Asian cup and other regional events.

For people who keep saying that people are dying on the World Cup stadium projects, that's simply not true by the way. There is only one actually being worked on at the moment, and that's a redesign of the current national stadium which only a small number of people are working on currently. The designs for the others are only just being finalised. The deaths which are reported in Qatar are down to the fact that there are over 1,000,000 labourers grafting on various projects such as the metro, the roads, the new city north of Doha, office buildings, hotels etc, all of which were being built regardless of the World Cup as the infrastructure was really creaking here a year or two back.

Safety standards clearly aren't perfect, and there is of course the issue with not being able to leave the country freely (and I do agree with some of the reasons behind that rule), but to put it into perspective, in the uk the long term workplace death rate per 100,000 workers is 0.56, it's actually lower than this believe it or not in qatar.

It's hitting the news because of the sheer number of labourers in the country, and in fact the real news story is that the majority of people aren't dying of workplace accidents, but seemingly because of heart attacks (curiously mostly affecting Nepalis) which nobody seems able to explain. But even if all these unexplained deaths were included in the workplace statistic, it would be 5 out of every 100,000.....and you can't compare that to the British figure because every one of those is doing hard physical graft, the British stats include office jobs etc.

I'm certainly no apologist for the Qatari regime, but I'd just caution folk to look a little behind the screaming tabloid headlines before you believe everything you read or see on the telly.


I understand what Zuricity is saying. If you average the attendance to be 35k across the premier league, but there are only 10 games played by the 20 teams per weekend, then the 10 x 35k is 350k. However, thats not what I wanted to reply about.

You mentioned that Qatar may well want to get the Olympics. I am sure it is way too hot to hold it there in the summer and I am sure as hell there is not enough snow there to hold the winter Olympics. So, the only choice would be to hold the Summer Olympics in the winter....sounds familiar ;-)



Yes, they bid the last 2 times but I think are pulling out this time to reevaluate things in light of the slating they have had.....I think their bids were for Late September - Im sure I recall others which were early September, so not a huge departure - and also not as much disruption to each sports' calendar as the Olympics is just another date on a flexible calendar for most sports.

The thing is, the air conditioning technology they were talking about is feasible. I work at the university which is developing it, and it's already been tested in public to good effect, and they have another 5 years to perfect it. But somewhere behind the scenes a decision was clearly made a long time ago that 2022 was going to be moved from
the summer, as the stadium designs changed to open roofed from originally being retractable (although i think the main stadium will still keep the retractible roof perhaps with an eye on the Olympics)

Of course the issue with the World Cup and the Olympics is with just how fucking hot it is here in the summer and the implications for spectators getting to and from the venues. But if anyone's ever been to dubai, you'll know that modern middle Eastern cities aren't made for walking, they are made for the motor vehicle and latterly metro systems. The Doha Metro is going to be all underground, air conditioned, and with underground walkways from the stations for quite long distances to reach different parts of stadia/venues.

The issue really therefore isn't as clear cut as it just being 'too hot' as in reality spectators would walk out of their air conditioned hotel, into an air conditioned taxi or metro, and into an air conditioned venue, although one could see certain events being problematic, such as marathon, rowing or even archery which all have to be held outdoors
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Re: Qatar: Winter World Cup 2022

Postby Im_Spartacus » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:00 pm

Just an additional point to that above, in terms of the sporting infrastructure, Qatar is deadly serious, and has already has most of the major venues which would be needed to host an Olympics. They have already built world class indoor venues for showjumping, swimming, and perhaps half a dozen 5000/10000 seat indoor arenas dotted around the city.

The facilities here are so good, aspire park was one of the facilities copied by City in their design of the etihad campus.
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