Neville: City have not progressed

[South Stand Balti]

I think that's bollocks tbh.

Neville knows that's not how it works. How much better were the rags last time Ferguson won the title, to when they won it with Hughes and Cantona 20 years ago ?

If City got significantly better every year, 3 years from now we would win every game.

He's a cunt.

We can't improve each year forever, that's true. But if we don't improve on what we currently have, then winning the Champs league will remain out of our grasp. Our club does have high ambitions. It is the cartel of clubs that cut our spending which is the real problem, whilst clubs with huge debt can continue to spend.

How long did it take baconface to win the champions league? Until he did, did the rags not progress at all during their premier league wins?

Nobody is saying we can't progress FURTHER mate. And you're right, we will need to to become the greatest team in the world. Of course.

But we have undoubtedly progressed since our first title win, scoring more goals than anyone else, progressing to the knock out stages of the champs league and winning a double.

I'm all for progress to come. I'm also all for current progress being credited and praised.

Not ignored, denied and sneered at from a rag who has no other reason to do so, other than he is a rag.

It was never said about the rags. Even though they were handed easy groups for the most part in the champs league, due to their "co efficiency", whilst we were handed "the group of death" every season until the current one.

This same cunt said last week during the qpr match that united have progressed under van gaal.

Have they?
And if so, using the same points as above, explain how?

I'm honestly baffled by his rant on sunday.

Especially as it has come halfway through a season in which we are in a race for our first back to back title win, capable of doing a stronger double with fa cup and league and also qualifying for the quarter finals of the champions league for the first time ever.
Capable, in fact, of doing the infamous treble, however unlikely that might be.

Had we beaten Arsenal convincingly, like we usually do in recent years (becoming a 15 game unbeaten streak if I'm not wrong?), then none of this shit would have been spouted.

He came out with this horseshit because we lost to Arsenal and it has been the first opportunity in a long time for him to have a dig.

The only difference between the pressure he is trying to apply to the finest team in the premier league and the pressure Mourinho is trying to apply to us, is the manner in which it is being presented.

Where has the praise been for the fact that we played a huge chunk of the season so far without the spine of our team.

Where is the praise for the fact that we faced the toughest part of the season with NO FUCKING STRIKER?!! And came through it UNBEATEN?!

Why is it "now or never" for City?

He played his cards very well up until now, but he can see that the rags have not progressed one inch since spending an absolute fortune and he needs this team to regress in order for his team to stand any chance. As a rag fan.

Every honest rag will tell you the same thing.

It took 13 years for Fergie to win the Chams league, so fair comment. It's part of the anti city agenda to give us no time at all. Maybe it's time to enjoy our success a bit more instead of analysing Neville's comments. I have thought seriously about cancelling Sky, but I should nt have to.

[Original Dub]

Spot on.

If Utd had done what we have done this season, he would be sucking Ferguson's dick as the greatest manager of all time & going on about how Utd will be tough to beat during the run in.

Aguero played 34 Premier League games in our first title season & got 23 goals. He played 30 next season & got 12.

Under Pellegrini, he's got 17 goals in 23 last season, & 14 in 16 this season. If he played 34 games, he'd have about 30 goals or more & we win the league.

Yaya got 20 fucking goals last season & we won the league with Aguero missing.

Neville can just fuck off.

Aye, but everyone knows United ALWAYS get stronger as the season goes on!

"You can never write United off" was said once or twice in my lifetime.
City have been written off since the take over. At at least one point during every season.

You're right, we would be running away with this league if Kompany, Silva and Aguero had not missed so many games. Now it's Yaya's turn.

Hey, we were 8 points behind Chelsea - where was the mention about the amazing progression we made without three of our four best players? The team "progressed" to joint top of the league without them. No other team in this or many other leagues could do that.

We lost to Arsenal. And to be honest, I think it had a hell of a lot to do with two of our best four players starting for the first time since they really hurt themselves, with the fourth now being missing.

I think what we're doing is amazing to be honest. I think it shows how far we have come as a team. It shows exemplary spirit and togetherness - As both Kompany and Hart have made sure to make a point of in the last few days.

A sharper Kompany and Aguero, a win at Stamford Bridge and a returning Yaya and Bony and we will be favourites IMO.

[Im_Spartacus]

I think that's bollocks tbh.

Neville knows that's not how it works. How much better were the rags last time Ferguson won the title, to when they won it with Hughes and Cantona 20 years ago ?

If City got significantly better every year, 3 years from now we would win every game.

He's a cunt.

Goes without saying that he's a cunt.

But looking at specifics, do you really reckon our squad is stronger than it was? I would take 2011/12 squad over this one.........in terms of the key changes.....Gareth Barry and Nigel De Jong just seemed to fit and do their job every time they played, whilst Fernando and Fernandinho are maybe what Neville would describe as 'busy cunts'......can clearly both great on their day, but when it's not their day the game passes them both by. Lescott was a more accomplished player than Demichelis or Mangala. Although I expect mangala to improve with time, it doesn't help us right now when he is as unpredictable as he is. In jovetic we have a talented player who doesn't play very often and has little end product (so no tangible improvement on ballotelli).

Whilst Neville is a cunt, I'm not so blind to claim I can't see where he's coming from at all. We can blame FFP Or any number of reasons, but the reality is we have done terribly badly in the transfer market in the years since the first title, and that's what's held us back from kicking on properly.

Last season was fantastic for the club and the fans, the best yet, and in view of the squad being less strong than the year we first won the league, fair fucks to pellers for that I reckon he punched above his weight, and only really at the end of the current season can we pass comment on how we have progressed under him.

But something just doesn't feel right about the way we struggle to play as a team at times this year. Reality is, at this end of the league, it's fine margins one way or another, and evolution not revolution, but I don't reckon we have kicked on in the way anyone expected us to, and I reckon that's what the rat faced twat means

That would be assuming that progress is judged on a yearly basis, which Neville knows it isn't.

He knows it's about replacing players with others & staying competitive. No way were the rags better every year than the next, nor are Real Madrid or Barca.

City have done brilliantly having to replace a load of key players & stay involved whilst Platini & Co under the influence of our competitors, have tried to fuck us up whilst they strengthen.

We are doing exactly what Utd did but faster. He knows that & he's just being a cunt.

I know progress isn't judged over a year, that's why I was comparing today's team to that of 4 seasons ago, and saying that our transfer policy has been poor.

My personal opinion is that we have a better manager, and worse players and consequently have not kicked on as one would have expected over the seasons since first winning the league.

I recognise your argument about FFP, but that doesn't absolve the club from not replacing what we had with similar or better quality given what we have wasted on the likes of Sinclair, Garcia, Rodwell (that summer I think is the one that is still fucking us up today) - I know that's simplistic, but that's what the club, the manager, the scouting staff are employed to do, and that's what's needed over time for a club to kick on.

[iwasthere2012]

I won't copy/repeat all of what has been said up to now. OD asked why did Neville use this opportunity to say what he did and answers it himself. It's the first chance in a long time that he could say anything negative about City. The truth is by City's standards, it had been a very quiet year so far, in the media. The media had a go for a bit in the champs league, but we went and buggered that up by qualifying. The Academy was launched and a few jaws dropped. We claw back an 8 points deficit when we are supposed to be considerably weakened. They don't have much to put us down on without sounding bitter or stupid.
So it's been relatively quiet. Neville took a shot because he needed a fix. It's been a while.

[Ted Hughes]

I think that's bollocks tbh.

Neville knows that's not how it works. How much better were the rags last time Ferguson won the title, to when they won it with Hughes and Cantona 20 years ago ?

If City got significantly better every year, 3 years from now we would win every game.

He's a cunt.

Goes without saying that he's a cunt.

But looking at specifics, do you really reckon our squad is stronger than it was? I would take 2011/12 squad over this one.........in terms of the key changes.....Gareth Barry and Nigel De Jong just seemed to fit and do their job every time they played, whilst Fernando and Fernandinho are maybe what Neville would describe as 'busy cunts'......can clearly both great on their day, but when it's not their day the game passes them both by. Lescott was a more accomplished player than Demichelis or Mangala. Although I expect mangala to improve with time, it doesn't help us right now when he is as unpredictable as he is. In jovetic we have a talented player who doesn't play very often and has little end product (so no tangible improvement on ballotelli).

Whilst Neville is a cunt, I'm not so blind to claim I can't see where he's coming from at all. We can blame FFP Or any number of reasons, but the reality is we have done terribly badly in the transfer market in the years since the first title, and that's what's held us back from kicking on properly.

Last season was fantastic for the club and the fans, the best yet, and in view of the squad being less strong than the year we first won the league, fair fucks to pellers for that I reckon he punched above his weight, and only really at the end of the current season can we pass comment on how we have progressed under him.

But something just doesn't feel right about the way we struggle to play as a team at times this year. Reality is, at this end of the league, it's fine margins one way or another, and evolution not revolution, but I don't reckon we have kicked on in the way anyone expected us to, and I reckon that's what the rat faced twat means

That would be assuming that progress is judged on a yearly basis, which Neville knows it isn't.

He knows it's about replacing players with others & staying competitive. No way were the rags better every year than the next, nor are Real Madrid or Barca.

City have done brilliantly having to replace a load of key players & stay involved whilst Platini & Co under the influence of our competitors, have tried to fuck us up whilst they strengthen.

We are doing exactly what Utd did but faster. He knows that & he's just being a cunt.

I know progress isn't judged over a year, that's why I was comparing today's team to that of 4 seasons ago, and saying that our transfer policy has been poor.

My personal opinion is that we have a better manager, and worse players and consequently have not kicked on as one would have expected over the seasons since first winning the league.

I recognise your argument about FFP, but that doesn't absolve the club from not replacing what we had with similar or better quality given what we have wasted on the likes of Sinclair, Garcia, Rodwell (that summer I think is the one that is still fucking us up today) - I know that's simplistic, but that's what the club, the manager, the scouting staff are employed to do, and that's what's needed over time for a club to kick on.

I don't think that Fernandinho last season was a lesser player than Barry or that Fernando is a lesser player than DeJong. Both Nige & Barry at their best would be good to have around but the way this team plays compared to Mancini's, they would struggle in this formation.

Neither could compare to some of the attacking football Fernandinho has produced.

Adam Johnson is not better than Navas. Savic & Nastasic are not better than Mangala. Lescott at his best was better than Demichelis but not better than Demi was in the 2nd half of last season & would only be a standby this season.

Richards was better for one season than Sagna, but not the rest of the time. Balotelli is not fit to lace the boots of Negredo or Bony. Aguero was not as good then as he is now. Nasri was nowhere near as good. Yaya was nothing like the same goal threat as now. Silva imo is better now. Milner is better now.

Zabba Clichy about the same. Joe Hart same. Dzeko same.

Vinny was better on average then but mostly only when Lescott played.

The only difference I can see is that Tevez was better than Jovetic. But Tevez had been playing here for years.

I think we have a better team a better manager, more injuries, better competition.

[Peter Doherty (AGAIG)]

Great post, OD.*

*The one on the previous page ;-)

[Im_Spartacus]

I think that's bollocks tbh.

Neville knows that's not how it works. How much better were the rags last time Ferguson won the title, to when they won it with Hughes and Cantona 20 years ago ?

If City got significantly better every year, 3 years from now we would win every game.

He's a cunt.

Goes without saying that he's a cunt.

But looking at specifics, do you really reckon our squad is stronger than it was? I would take 2011/12 squad over this one.........in terms of the key changes.....Gareth Barry and Nigel De Jong just seemed to fit and do their job every time they played, whilst Fernando and Fernandinho are maybe what Neville would describe as 'busy cunts'......can clearly both great on their day, but when it's not their day the game passes them both by. Lescott was a more accomplished player than Demichelis or Mangala. Although I expect mangala to improve with time, it doesn't help us right now when he is as unpredictable as he is. In jovetic we have a talented player who doesn't play very often and has little end product (so no tangible improvement on ballotelli).

Whilst Neville is a cunt, I'm not so blind to claim I can't see where he's coming from at all. We can blame FFP Or any number of reasons, but the reality is we have done terribly badly in the transfer market in the years since the first title, and that's what's held us back from kicking on properly.

Last season was fantastic for the club and the fans, the best yet, and in view of the squad being less strong than the year we first won the league, fair fucks to pellers for that I reckon he punched above his weight, and only really at the end of the current season can we pass comment on how we have progressed under him.

But something just doesn't feel right about the way we struggle to play as a team at times this year. Reality is, at this end of the league, it's fine margins one way or another, and evolution not revolution, but I don't reckon we have kicked on in the way anyone expected us to, and I reckon that's what the rat faced twat means

That would be assuming that progress is judged on a yearly basis, which Neville knows it isn't.

He knows it's about replacing players with others & staying competitive. No way were the rags better every year than the next, nor are Real Madrid or Barca.

City have done brilliantly having to replace a load of key players & stay involved whilst Platini & Co under the influence of our competitors, have tried to fuck us up whilst they strengthen.

We are doing exactly what Utd did but faster. He knows that & he's just being a cunt.

I know progress isn't judged over a year, that's why I was comparing today's team to that of 4 seasons ago, and saying that our transfer policy has been poor.

My personal opinion is that we have a better manager, and worse players and consequently have not kicked on as one would have expected over the seasons since first winning the league.

I recognise your argument about FFP, but that doesn't absolve the club from not replacing what we had with similar or better quality given what we have wasted on the likes of Sinclair, Garcia, Rodwell (that summer I think is the one that is still fucking us up today) - I know that's simplistic, but that's what the club, the manager, the scouting staff are employed to do, and that's what's needed over time for a club to kick on.

I don't think that Fernandinho last season was a lesser player than Barry or that Fernando is a lesser player than DeJong. Both Nige & Barry at their best would be good to have around but the way this team plays compared to Mancini's, they would struggle in this formation.

Neither could compare to some of the attacking football Fernandinho has produced.

Adam Johnson is not better than Navas. Savic & Nastasic are not better than Mangala. Lescott at his best was better than Demichelis but not better than Demi was in the 2nd half of last season & would only be a standby this season.

Richards was better for one season than Sagna, but not the rest of the time. Balotelli is not fit to lace the boots of Negredo or Bony. Aguero was not as good then as he is now. Nasri was nowhere near as good. Yaya was nothing like the same goal threat as now. Silva imo is better now. Milner is better now.

Zabba Clichy about the same. Joe Hart same. Dzeko same.

Vinny was better on average then but mostly only when Lescott played.

The only difference I can see is that Tevez was better than Jovetic. But Tevez had been playing here for years.

I think we have a better team a better manager, more injuries, better competition.

Whilst some players are better now than they were in 2012, the comparison Neville was making was the difference between then and now.....eg, what has happened in between is largely irrelevant.

Yet you include Negredo who isn't here, you age Lescott when my argument is that it's the club's job to replace the quality of player we had in 2012 (which we have failed to do - demichelis is good, but not on Lescotts 2012 standard). Yaya was great last season, but this season he hasn't rediscovered the form of last year, and thus is well below the form he showed particularly towards the end of the first title winning season. Nasri, again played very well last season but hasn't really replicated it this year. Fernandinho I thought was key last season, but this season is pretty meh. Richards in THAT season was fantastic, signing Sagna has not really moved that on. Silva peaked in 2012 and sometimes reaches those levels but not consistently

So when you take the snapshot of 2012 and 2015, what happened in 2013/14 is irrelevant to Neville's comment, the reality is that we aren't much further on TODAY than we were, and if we are, it's by a very fine margin.

The only arguments you have are Aguero, Bony (who we don't really know about yet) and Navas (Navas is better player, although was Johnson not as effective in the cold light of day), our defence is considerably worse (ffs we have conceded more than the fucking munichs), our midfield is very hot and cold, Hart's decisions get more eccentric as the years go by, the forwards have been injured for large spells of this year and we never relaxed Tevez.

And for City64, this isn't trying to be negative, it's being realistic. The transfer policy has let us down......we didn't have to spend £40m on Rodwell, Garcia and Sinclair because of FFP, we signed them because of a spat between Mancini and Marwood and that lost year, I think is the reason why we are much in the same place now as we were when we lifted the jug the first time.

[Slim]

and we never relaxed Tevez.

I think he did plenty enough relaxing on his golf holiday.

[Beefymcfc]

What a great thread to wake up to.

I'm loving the hate, keep it going.

[Dameerto]

We won the double last season and have just qualified for the last 16 of the CL from what was universally regarded as the TOUGHEST group ( yet again ) .

So any deluded cunt who thinks that isn't progress is a fucking retard !

Total goals scored by us last season, too. Progress. New manager in his first season in a new country and new league introducing a new formation and style of play whilst also winning a double - progress. Whatever metrics you use, we have progressed. Unless you are trying to manufacture a reason to have a go at City.

It's that simple.

By exactly the same measurements though........
We will score less this year
We probably will win less trophies this year

I wonder if folk aren't getting their knickers in a twist about ratboy, over a question of definition. I can kinda see where he's coming from, in that we haven't built each year on what we had achieved the year before. Now I know that it's impossible to build every year, but we do seem to give the impression this year (and in Mancini's title defence year)that it's all a bit of a struggle and that we are on a 12 month hangover.

A couple of things that develop this point further..........we played stunning football initially in our title winning season, then reverted to Mancini type and he never emerged from that shell. Yes we won the league, but we went backwards big time the year after. Pellegrini arguably has put us back to where Mancini peaked, improved on Mancini's best football, and put us a little further forward with the champs league qualifications, and two trophies rather than one, but in reality if we don't kick on and win the league this year, ratboy is right we are not really ahead of where we were.

What seems incredible to me is the nature of the football under each manager has, gone backwards both times, and the signings in the season of our title defence largely poor (of course jury is still out on this summers signings)

In summary, I think Neville has a right to make those observations, and I think any neutral watching our results and style of play from afar would probably agree. The club as a whole has made tremendous strides off the pitch and in youth development, but that isn't what he's on about is it?

We're in three competitions - one of them we have got out of the group stage for the first time (which is progress by the way). I am going to use the reverse of your tea leaf reading and say we will win all three giving us a treble - which is just as valid as your finger in the wind prediction of us under-performing and not winning two. In reality neither of us know how we're going to do until it's over and we can review the season properly. Which leaves us with last season to compare to our first recent title win...

[City64]

Sparty .....

Every top football club will experience bad signings , that's the nature of the transfer market ,there is no guarantee or percentage how many will become good business . Think it is fair to say MCFC have done very well in this department apart from one or two signings . Now then we could absolutely rip apart the recent transfer policy at the swamp .........

As has been eloquently posted by Ted and OD and one or two others last Sundays result was the first opportunity in a long long time for the haters to have a poke and you fell for it !

[Im_Spartacus]

Sparty .....

Every top football club will experience bad signings , that's the nature of the transfer market ,there is no guarantee or percentage how many will become good business . Think it is fair to say MCFC have done very well in this department apart from one or two signings . Now then we could absolutely rip apart the recent transfer policy at the swamp .........

As has been eloquently posted by Ted and OD and one or two others last Sundays result was the first opportunity in a long long time for the haters to have a poke and you fell for it !

I don't think I fell for anything.....the bile that some on here spout at any criticism of city, absolutely rejects anything that a person not connected with the club could be speaking their honest opinion. In this case. I think he has a point.

Stories like the bollocks in the mirror today about shirt sales in Manchester are clearly written by rags trying to get one of the few snide digs they have left to give, even if they are tenuous at best and based on flawed logic, but let's not automatically assume that just because someone has an opinion different to ours, that they are automatically wrong or biased.

That's how, after 10-15 years of holding that attitude, we as fans end up as universally hated as the rags as only our city centric viewpoint counts in a debate!

If Neville has sat and analysed City, all our ins, our outs, the infrastructure, then to say we have not moved forward on a 'holistic' basis is clearly bollocks, but from what he sees on the pitch, Even removing the arsenal game from the equation, I think his observation is worthy of discussion not ridicule.

[john@staustell]

I think it's a bit simple and a bit of a trendy cliche really - 'not progressed'. Not worthy of him.

If every club progressed all the time then we would all stay in the same relative place. On the other hand if we win the league by more than last year we will have progressed.

To my mind not a term that can be so liberally applied to football with all it's ups and downs.

[iwasthere2012]

Sparty .....

Every top football club will experience bad signings , that's the nature of the transfer market ,there is no guarantee or percentage how many will become good business . Think it is fair to say MCFC have done very well in this department apart from one or two signings . Now then we could absolutely rip apart the recent transfer policy at the swamp .........

As has been eloquently posted by Ted and OD and one or two others last Sundays result was the first opportunity in a long long time for the haters to have a poke and you fell for it !

I don't think I fell for anything.....the bile that some on here spout at any criticism of city, absolutely rejects anything that a person not connected with the club could be speaking their honest opinion. In this case. I think he has a point.

Stories like the bollocks in the mirror today about shirt sales in Manchester are clearly written by rags trying to get one of the few snide digs they have left to give, even if they are tenuous at best and based on flawed logic, but let's not automatically assume that just because someone has an opinion different to ours, that they are automatically wrong or biased.

That's how, after 10-15 years of holding that attitude, we as fans end up as universally hated as the rags as only our city centric viewpoint counts in a debate!

If Neville has sat and analysed City, all our ins, our outs, the infrastructure, then to say we have not moved forward on a 'holistic' basis is clearly bollocks, but from what he sees on the pitch, Even removing the arsenal game from the equation, I think his observation is worthy of discussion not ridicule.

Sparticus, I think you are dead right when you put forward the principal that we can and should put forward different ideas or beliefs as to what is or isn't progress. I also believe that you learn more in general, by listening than talking. That's not a slight at anyone by the way. Not everyone has the same opinion and all are valid as City supporters.
My own view, I have stated above. I'll only add that, you can argue one way or the other about whether Neville is right about City's progress on the pitch and whether the transfer policy so far has been good or bad, but I don't think many of us believe that the club as a whole hasn't progressed. I think that until the shackles of FFP are off none of us can really judge what kind of a juggling act is going on within the management board. While the shackles are on they have really stolen a march on our competitors off the field, on the blind-side so to speak and perhaps this has been the priority.
When the gloves are off, let's see whether there is noticeable progress. As far as this year goes, let's judge in June.

While on the point of differing viewpoints. I would say you probably have to contend with 50/50 support in Manchester. Over here in Dublin we haven't been that fortunate. We've had to listen to United supporters perpetuating the same myths and theories about why they're great unchallenged for decades. They only talk in their own circles so they never get a descenting voice, so naturally think they are right. This goes on and on and things that are untrue become fact in their minds. It is quite healthy to have an outside opinion thrown in to shake us out of complacency. I've learned tons of things I never thought of in relation to City by entering into debate, here and elsewhere. At the end of the day we are all the same here, but viva la difference.

[City64]

Sparty .....

Every top football club will experience bad signings , that's the nature of the transfer market ,there is no guarantee or percentage how many will become good business . Think it is fair to say MCFC have done very well in this department apart from one or two signings . Now then we could absolutely rip apart the recent transfer policy at the swamp .........

As has been eloquently posted by Ted and OD and one or two others last Sundays result was the first opportunity in a long long time for the haters to have a poke and you fell for it !

I don't think I fell for anything.....the bile that some on here spout at any criticism of city, absolutely rejects anything that a person not connected with the club could be speaking their honest opinion. In this case. I think he has a point.

Stories like the bollocks in the mirror today about shirt sales in Manchester are clearly written by rags trying to get one of the few snide digs they have left to give, even if they are tenuous at best and based on flawed logic, but let's not automatically assume that just because someone has an opinion different to ours, that they are automatically wrong or biased.

That's how, after 10-15 years of holding that attitude, we as fans end up as universally hated as the rags as only our city centric viewpoint counts in a debate!

If Neville has sat and analysed City, all our ins, our outs, the infrastructure, then to say we have not moved forward on a 'holistic' basis is clearly bollocks, but from what he sees on the pitch, Even removing the arsenal game from the equation, I think his observation is worthy of discussion not ridicule.

Neville is a rag through and through , his assumption and spouting that MCFC haven't progressed is utter bollocks , it is just a dig from a rag cunt . Lots of long winded going around the houses reasoning with a rag cunt is a total waste time . They ( the rag cunts ) used to be top dogs , they are horrible bastards who brow beat others with their success , the last 12 / 14 months they have been firmly put in there place .

They are cunts ....... end of !

[The Maine Man]

If not progressing means there is another trophy (or 2) in the cabinet every season, then I look forward to 2 decades of stagnation!

[Beefymcfc]

Scum!

[iwasthere2012]

Scum!

Who?
Neville or all rags?

[Beefymcfc]

Scum!

Who?
Neville or all rags?

All the Rags includes RatBoy.

[City64]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... er-6483814

Just for doubters where rag cunt ratboys loyalties lie . His Sky slot must be paying for this ^^^^^^^^^^^