AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:15 pm

It's difficult to see how you could have a twenty team European League and still play a thirty eight game Prem season. Plus cup games. It must be one or the other surely.
I wouldn't be happy even dropping the domestic cups to fit it in.
I think the draw of European football is over estimated by some. It has to be an 'extra' only
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby nottsblue » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:32 pm

Seeing as how FFP is likely to not affect us that much from next year, (when we start to make a profit), would it be a bad thing for City if it remained? We have our house in order, our academy will either bear fruit for our first team or raise more money through sales and we are, together with Chelsea, some distance from our challengers. They will have to play catch up and if they have to reign in their spending like we had too, then great.

For football as a sport it clearly is a bad thing as in the main it will stop teams from bettering themselves and when a sport becomes predictable it becomes boring and people look elsewhere for entertainment.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Peter Doherty (AGAIG) » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:57 pm

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:If it was to come about, would you want City to play in a 20 team Euro Superleague?
Genuine question open to anybody who cares to offer an opinion

I'd rather hang up my boots. It's become tedious playing Bayern Munich every year as it is, the idea of playing them into perpetuity makes me want to vomit.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Ted Hughes » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:23 pm

john68 wrote:Peter,
Not one bit of any of this has anything to do with football. "The playing of football, is merely coincidental to the business of Manchester United" (direst quote from Roland Smith, the then head of the Rags pre Glazer parent company.

None of the new owners (including our own) bought clubs because of their love for football. They bought their clubs for their own reasons. We just happened to get very lucky in that our new owners had a different motive other than short term greed.

Please forget footballl, or what happens on the pitch. none of any of it applies. It is solely about money, global branding, greed and profiteering.

The only reason that the likes of the rags and Arsenal have spent big recently, is because their position at the trough has been challenged.


What happens on the pitch, determines how much income the clubs get long term & how their brand spreads around the world. If we keep getting all the best players & winning stuff & they don't, then eventually our brand will dwarf theirs.

If it didn't, there would be no need for ffp. The rags are big enough to ride it for longer than the others over here, but Arsenal are already in trouble from us, Liverpool are financially but not yet fully regarding fanbase. I would be interested to see what percentage of new fans support Liverpol in 20 years, if they don't win stuff.

There were a lot of kids running around playing football wearing Barca shirts in Norway last time I looked. Most of their parents will be rags & Liverpool fans.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Original Dub » Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:54 pm

When it's all done away with over the next season or so, will anyone be there to ensure those who knew it was a scam, invented to buy time and nothing else, be held accountable?
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:15 pm

Original Dub wrote:When it's all done away with over the next season or so, will anyone be there to ensure those who knew it was a scam, invented to buy time and nothing else, be held accountable?


No
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:23 pm

Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:
Original Dub wrote:When it's all done away with over the next season or so, will anyone be there to ensure those who knew it was a scam, invented to buy time and nothing else, be held accountable?


No

And I bet we don't get our fucking money back. Wankers!
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Bianchi on Ice » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:43 pm

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:
Piccsnumberoneblue wrote:If it was to come about, would you want City to play in a 20 team Euro Superleague?
Genuine question open to anybody who cares to offer an opinion

I'd rather hang up my boots. It's become tedious playing Bayern Munich every year as it is, the idea of playing them into perpetuity makes me want to vomit.


Agreed, no way Jose. Cunt as he is, mourinho wouldnt have it either, and neither would I.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:54 pm

You know, we've spent so much time on this shit it's unbelievable.

All's I'll say is FUCK 'EM! With a big fuck off capital F!!!
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Im_Spartacus » Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:55 am

Milan have been banging on about this since last season, when they suggested there should be a wildcard for big clubs who don't qualify.

I wouldn't read much into this, but it is funny to hear these cunts bleating about it
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby john68 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:26 am

You are right Beefers, but sadly this shit is ongoing.

When it stops, we can.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby iwasthere2012 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 12:41 am

I think a European top 20 only league with no premiership would be a step too far for me. I Struggle with a lot of what the modern game offers as it is. The hope that City bring this whole corrupt Cartel driven mess down, is something that keeps my interest.
I want us to win the Champions League from within their one sided set of rules and really f@ck them up.
What happens after that though is anyone's guess.
Will we become what we hate.
I'd love to see a new order with the likes of West Ham and Villa etc in with a chance of real investment.......
But us still winning of course, playing beautiful football.
Happy New Year.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Mikhail Chigorin » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:43 pm

iwasthere2012 wrote:I think a European top 20 only league with no premiership would be a step too far for me. I Struggle with a lot of what the modern game offers as it is. The hope that City bring this whole corrupt Cartel driven mess down, is something that keeps my interest.
I want us to win the Champions League from within their one sided set of rules and really f@ck them up.
What happens after that though is anyone's guess.
Will we become what we hate.
I'd love to see a new order with the likes of West Ham and Villa etc in with a chance of real investment.......
But us still winning of course, playing beautiful football.
Happy New Year.


That's too frightening to contemplate.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby iwasthere2012 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:53 pm

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:
iwasthere2012 wrote:I think a European top 20 only league with no premiership would be a step too far for me. I Struggle with a lot of what the modern game offers as it is. The hope that City bring this whole corrupt Cartel driven mess down, is something that keeps my interest.
I want us to win the Champions League from within their one sided set of rules and really f@ck them up.
What happens after that though is anyone's guess.
Will we become what we hate.
I'd love to see a new order with the likes of West Ham and Villa etc in with a chance of real investment.......
But us still winning of course, playing beautiful football.
Happy New Year.


That's too frightening to contemplate.

True. One game at a time, heh?
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby john68 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:39 am

Ted Hughes wrote:
What happens on the pitch, determines how much income the clubs get long term & how their brand spreads around the world. If we keep getting all the best players & winning stuff & they don't, then eventually our brand will dwarf theirs.

If it didn't, there would be no need for ffp. The rags are big enough to ride it for longer than the others over here, but Arsenal are already in trouble from us, Liverpool are financially but not yet fully regarding fanbase. I would be interested to see what percentage of new fans support Liverpol in 20 years, if they don't win stuff.

There were a lot of kids running around playing football wearing Barca shirts in Norway last time I looked. Most of their parents will be rags & Liverpool fans.


Apologies for the delayed reply Ted.

Common sense should dictate that what you say is correct Mate and does at most levels of football outside those globally branded clubs. However,a deeper look at some of the new ownership models would suggest that results are only one factor amongst many.

You mentioned long term,but I did specify that many of these new models of ownership are looking only at maximising short term profit. Some are asset stripping and dare I say it but there is a suggestion in some quarters that some football clubs are actually being used as a money laundering front.

A look at the Glazers, who have used the ragsto blled them as dry as they can reasonably do so, whilst maintaining a much lower level of investment in the club until post Moyes, when their position was endangered..
It is no coincidence that post Dean at Arsenal, their player investment has dropped to buying talented you that a lower price = maintaining 4th position = remaining it the CL pot 1 = easy group stages and so the cycle continued.The bleating about paying for a stadium is abject nonsense, considering they have a silent major (Russian?) investor who they won't allow near the board.
The Fenway \Group stated that they only bought the Scousers because they had been told about the Premier League's FFP. Funny that at that time,it had never been mentioned or proposed.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby john68 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:46 am

There was an issue raised today on Radio Manchester regarding the signage at the new Campus ommitting the word "MANCHESTER". The question being raised was whether City were discarding their local image and re-branding "CITY". We have already seen the terms "City Football Group" and "City Football Academy" being used.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Ted Hughes » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:53 am

john68 wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:
What happens on the pitch, determines how much income the clubs get long term & how their brand spreads around the world. If we keep getting all the best players & winning stuff & they don't, then eventually our brand will dwarf theirs.

If it didn't, there would be no need for ffp. The rags are big enough to ride it for longer than the others over here, but Arsenal are already in trouble from us, Liverpool are financially but not yet fully regarding fanbase. I would be interested to see what percentage of new fans support Liverpol in 20 years, if they don't win stuff.

There were a lot of kids running around playing football wearing Barca shirts in Norway last time I looked. Most of their parents will be rags & Liverpool fans.


Apologies for the delayed reply Ted.

Common sense should dictate that what you say is correct Mate and does at most levels of football outside those globally branded clubs. However,a deeper look at some of the new ownership models would suggest that results are only one factor amongst many.

You mentioned long term,but I did specify that many of these new models of ownership are looking only at maximising short term profit. Some are asset stripping and dare I say it but there is a suggestion in some quarters that some football clubs are actually being used as a money laundering front.

A look at the Glazers, who have used the ragsto blled them as dry as they can reasonably do so, whilst maintaining a much lower level of investment in the club until post Moyes, when their position was endangered..
It is no coincidence that post Dean at Arsenal, their player investment has dropped to buying talented you that a lower price = maintaining 4th position = remaining it the CL pot 1 = easy group stages and so the cycle continued.The bleating about paying for a stadium is abject nonsense, considering they have a silent major (Russian?) investor who they won't allow near the board.
The Fenway \Group stated that they only bought the Scousers because they had been told about the Premier League's FFP. Funny that at that time,it had never been mentioned or proposed.


Oh don't get me wrong, they don't want to spend money, but they all know that if they want to be near the top of the pile financially, they have to be relatively successful on the pitch.

Most of the Prem clubs imo didn't care about that, they just wanted to pocket the new tv deal & be able to skim money off, as you say, without losing control of their clubs. So for the likes of Ashley, the Goblins at West Ham, that fucking slimeball at Everton; ffp is perfect. They are not allowed to spend money, only to make a profit.

It would have been perfect for rags, Arse, Liverpool, AC Milan etc, if it had wiped us out & I'm convinced they all thought it would. They thought the Sheikh would just hold up his hands, see he is wasting his time & depart, leaving his 'toy' to rot.

But the Sheikh is still here & we are still here, so they have all started spending to try & get away from us when the sanctions kicked in. But it didn't work, & we are top of the league even though they have all been spending money.

So now they are all wondering what to do next. Ditching ffp & selling up may be a good option for some of them.

Perhaps that's what Berlusconi wants.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby john68 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:35 am

We are seldom very far apart on our opinions Ted and I agree with most of that Mate.

I think it's worth looking at a particular phrase you used "RELATIVELY SUCCESSFUL" because it defines much of a club's financial policy.

If we look particularly at the rags, they openly stated over many years that there true rivals were the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, (latterly) Chelsea and the European giants of whichever particular era or cycle of Taggart' reign.
Though they dominated the domestic scene over many years, as the World's biggest and richest club, they never dominated Europe in the same way. Real overtook them,asdid Barca and recently Bayern in the financial battle and on the field their European successes were negligible for as club of their financial muscle.
Post Glazer, their investment in players dropped alarmingly for them until it caused last season's implosion. Their owners have pocketed many many millions at the expense of onfield investment and performance...Until this season.

Looking more closely at other clubs like Arsenal, shows that your term "relative success" is maybe more meaningful than is popularly considered.
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby Ted Hughes » Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:08 am

I think the point has been reached where Arsenal & Liverppol have been maxed out as far as the fans are concerned though.

They have both been in decline compared to the rags & Chelsea, but the legacy of all those years of success for both clubs, has maintained their fanbase in comparison to clubs like us. That will be changing already & unless they don't step it up, they will fall behind us not just in terms of income but also in terms of actual fanbase in the future.

Whether they can exist comfortably as second tier clubs, where te fans expect nothing more, I'm not sure.

In the case of the rags; they only exist on bullshit, so they have to fuel it or they lose their appeal. They have to be 'the greatest' this & 'the biggest' that or their reason for existing is brought into question.

This is a key time for them & the other clubs have really played into their hands with ffp. But they have managed to produce a spectacularly average team with all that spend so far, & their best players are getting older. Can't be many more spends left in them before the alarm bells go off . Fine if it all works, but if it doesn't..
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Re: AC Sh**house Milan are now against FFP

Postby john68 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:36 am

Which leads us back to short termism and finding the balance between what they consider an acceptable price for the level of success they want that will maximise the profit they demand.

The Glazers paid nothing and loaded the club with high priced debt. To ensure they maximised their profit, they invested a lower percentage of their profit back into the team. Over time, the results suffered and they allowed their squad to get old at a time when the likes of City and Chelsea were investing heavily. It seems their 1st priority was to ensure their personal income ahead of team development. It is only this season as the likes of Vidic, Plug, Giggs and the Ginger whinger overstepped their sell by date and they had lost their CL place that they have decided to reinvest.for the rags, success means spending bigand pocketing less.

Arsenal have been the masters, huge profits, low investment and a 4th place to sustain their financial success. That and fleecing their sheep who seem content to pay their price.

Newcastle is a good example too. Buy cheap then sell on players that they would need for onfield success. Asst stripping on a conveyor belt.
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