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What does it mean when a kid of seven is "on the books" at a football club?

When I was groing up, I never knew anyone ever get a sniff at big clubs.

My seven year old son loads quite a few kids that are "on the books" at one club or another. I've seen them play, they're not great.

What exactly does being "on the books" mean? Is it just a case of the clubs mopping up pretty much every kid that can kick a football or is there more to it than that?

Scatman wrote:What does it mean when a kid of seven is "on the books" at a football club?

When I was groing up, I never knew anyone ever get a sniff at big clubs.

My seven year old son loads quite a few kids that are "on the books" at one club or another. I've seen them play, they're not great.

What exactly does being "on the books" mean? Is it just a case of the clubs mopping up pretty much every kid that can kick a football or is there more to it than that?

there are different levels of "on the books", my lad was invited to train many years ago at City and stayed for 13 weeks but was then let go with a well done for getting here and ruffle of his hair and a good luck hand shake.

However, during my coaching I have had a few lads taken away from my team by academies. I have had some return too. They like to look at them and see what they have. Some returned to play for me whilst the Pro club held their registration which was a bit weird. That was a lad who had been to Liverpool, Bolton and Bury and he came to play for me and Bury held his registration and gave him permission. However, if he got picked up by someone else, the club in question would have to speak to Bury about taking him. I wasn't arsed TBH, I had a quality player :-)

My wife's best mates son has been at Liverpool academy since he was 8, he is now 15 and still there.
I don't know what the legality of it all is, I have never asked the question but I would imagine its the parents signing something as a legal guardian to give the club some rights?

Your wife's best mate is 15? :/

twosips wrote:Your wife's best mate is 15? :/

ha ha good catch....now edited to read correctly LOL

I think different clubs do things different ways.

A Friend of a friends son was taken on by Utd at age 11. By age of 14 - even though the family lived in the greater Manchester area - he was told he needed to live in club digs which was a big thing for Ferguson apparently, so consequently a 14 year old kid spent the next 2 years living away from home during the week. At 18 he was released but thankfully taken on by another league club, where he is now. I found the whole situation quite odd, but maybe Utd aren't the only club doing this?

I do know that professional clubs hoover up loads of kids and then spit them out again. In Junior Football - I have two sons that play age 13 and 9 - there are a number of clubs who field 6 or 7 teams at each age group, which I also don't think is healthy tbh but at least kids are playing.

When I was a kid, it was only those who went out of their way to be seen, who got seen. But now there seem to be scouts all over the place. Not sure if most have a clue though, but ours seem to be getting there by all reports.

'On the books' is just a general term people use to describe the club which any given kid is attached to, be it under contract or as a junior. People don't look up the details of each case before they use the term, it's just a generalisation to describe who the kid is playing for at that time.

My mate's lad could have been referred to as 'on the books' of Liverpool, Everton & the rags at different times, in that he played games for them all, but he was never actually officially signed up to any of them & in fact my mate recons that, at the rags in particular, they were only really interested in about 3 players in that year, & the rest were just used as traffic cones to make up the numbers in order for the lads who they had earmarked for the top, to have a team to play in. His lad received very little individual coaching & the coaches seemed to know little about his strengths or weaknesses, just bunged him in any position that needed filling. (They were coached to appeal for everything though. I asked the lad that myself & he confirmed it, & he's a rag ). Surprisingly, this was also the case at Crewe, where he learned fuck all, under old school so called 'legends' of coaching, who couldn't even remember his name, & even identified him wrongly on a video of the game he had just played in, blaming him for a mistake made by someone else, when the parents of the oher kids were raving about his performance & had him down as motm.

At the rags, he reconed it didn't matter matter how well any of the other kids played, there were just about 3 who the coaches were really bothered about.

Won't mention names but none of those lads made it at Utd & are either on loan, or gone. Lots of 'old school' types were working at those clubs at the time, but I know Liverpool changed a fair bit since then, although I'm not sure the rags have. I think it's still the same bunch.

Round about the time Peter Reid was at City, the standard of kids they were signing up was, on the whole, desperate, not even average . We had lost all interest imo & the rags just took who they wanted. But through the academy which Lee. Cassel etc built, there was a huge improvement, & now it seems the new academy is trying to basically pick up every kid with real talent, from eveywhere. And it's possibly working.

Ted Hughes wrote:(They were coached to appeal for everything though. I asked the lad that myself & he confirmed it, & he's a rag ). .

Very true.

In my younger days I played at a fairly decent representative level; we were actively encouraged to work on the linesman/ref and appeal for everything strongly and confidently, regardless of whether you thought it was your ball or not.

Other gems taught to us included when defending a corner, step on the toes of the opponent in an emergency or pull back by the shorts rather than the shirt, as these are rarely seen by officials. I think the one useful piece of coaching we got was to our keeper during pen shoot-outs, who was advised to stand still for every penalty, as in any shoot-out, at least 2 of the 5 go right down the middle. You watch most shoot-outs and that's still generally the case, but I digress.

Agree with Ted on the kids who were pushed forward. Case in point was Nicky Summerbee. I played with/against him many times and he was at best average for our age group. I could name 50 odd players alone who were far superior in natural ability and talent at ages 10-18 when I encountered him, so god knows how he eventually made it. Fair play to him for using the advantages he had, but Nicky wasn't even close to the sort of player you'd have thought could make it, even in his late teens.

Goaters 103 wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:(They were coached to appeal for everything though. I asked the lad that myself & he confirmed it, & he's a rag ). .

Very true.

In my younger days I played at a fairly decent representative level; we were actively encouraged to work on the linesman/ref and appeal for everything strongly and confidently, regardless of whether you thought it was your ball or not.

Other gems taught to us included when defending a corner, step on the toes of the opponent in an emergency or pull back by the shorts rather than the shirt, as these are rarely seen by officials. I think the one useful piece of coaching we got was to our keeper during pen shoot-outs, who was advised to stand still for every penalty, as in any shoot-out, at least 2 of the 5 go right down the middle. You watch most shoot-outs and that's still generally the case, but I digress.

Agree with Ted on the kids who were pushed forward. Case in point was Nicky Summerbee. I played with/against him many times and he was at best average for our age group. I could name 50 odd players alone who were far superior in natural ability and talent at ages 10-18 when I encountered him, so god knows how he eventually made it. Fair play to him for using the advantages he had, but Nicky wasn't even close to the sort of player you'd have thought could make it, even in his late teens.

I think/hope that will no longer be the case at City with us taking kids very young & coaching them in the 'City 'way' to play football (I dreamed of that for years & now it's happening). But also, the accent now seems to be on intelligence being key. A kid who is good, on the ball, strong, fast, but dumb, or even an out & out mental case, would have been straight into our first team squad 10 years ago. Now he's likely to get dumped.

Whilst from the clubs' point of view, I see the necessity of this childrens' "meat market", I have never been totally happy with the recruitment methods of many clubs.
Too often, families and kids are sold a dream, built up at a tender age...and then unceremoniously dumped when they are unwanted.

I hope our new campus is a little more caring about our child workers.

john68 wrote:Whilst from the clubs' point of view, I see the necessity of this childrens' "meat market", I have never been totally happy with the recruitment methods of many clubs.
Too often, families and kids are sold a dream, built up at a tender age...and then unceremoniously dumped when they are unwanted.

I hope our new campus is a little more caring about our child workers.

Attend a County Cup Game in youth football. 2 things you will see, The standard will be poor bar one or two kids, who have been released back.And the big winter coats from Blackburn, Rochdale, Oldham, Everton still have a big network of scouts clubs looking for the scraps, we do not want or have had and turned away. On the other side the FA say they want small sided games on small pitches. no winning or losing ! Manchester FA and Cheshire and every other local FA are fighting to keep grass roots football alive, it is crazy.

Pro clubs are fishing at every decent game on a Sunday from toddlers to under 16's, Most Youth teams at the lower clubs are made up of Kids CITY have had.
Football is eating itself at youth level, SKY BT Lap it up. Eccles Sunday league one the oldest and best run with great patrons behind it. Go summer football next season, No winter football ?

Hazy2 wrote:

john68 wrote:Whilst from the clubs' point of view, I see the necessity of this childrens' "meat market", I have never been totally happy with the recruitment methods of many clubs.
Too often, families and kids are sold a dream, built up at a tender age...and then unceremoniously dumped when they are unwanted.

I hope our new campus is a little more caring about our child workers.

Attend a County Cup Game in youth football. 2 things you will see, The standard will be poor bar one or two kids, who have been released back.And the big winter coats from Blackburn, Rochdale, Oldham, Everton still have a big network of scouts clubs looking for the scraps, we do not want or have had and turned away. On the other side the FA say they want small sided games on small pitches. no winning or losing ! Manchester FA and Cheshire and every other local FA are fighting to keep grass roots football alive, it is crazy.

Pro clubs are fishing at every decent game on a Sunday from toddlers to under 16's, Most Youth teams at the lower clubs are made up of Kids CITY have had.
Football is eating itself at youth level, SKY BT Lap it up. Eccles Sunday league one the oldest and best run with great patrons behind it. Go summer football next season, No winter football ?

I don't agree with the 'no winning & losing' idea but I fully agree with the idea of kids playing on small pitches.

I agree with keeping score at junior level, but not the keeping of tables. Not until they hit teenage level.

Ladders? That's an adult concept. Kids don't give a shit about ladders. It's win or lose their last game and it should stay at that. Play a grand final against their nearest local team and that's that.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

john68 wrote:Whilst from the clubs' point of view, I see the necessity of this childrens' "meat market", I have never been totally happy with the recruitment methods of many clubs.
Too often, families and kids are sold a dream, built up at a tender age...and then unceremoniously dumped when they are unwanted.

I hope our new campus is a little more caring about our child workers.

Attend a County Cup Game in youth football. 2 things you will see, The standard will be poor bar one or two kids, who have been released back.And the big winter coats from Blackburn, Rochdale, Oldham, Everton still have a big network of scouts clubs looking for the scraps, we do not want or have had and turned away. On the other side the FA say they want small sided games on small pitches. no winning or losing ! Manchester FA and Cheshire and every other local FA are fighting to keep grass roots football alive, it is crazy.

Pro clubs are fishing at every decent game on a Sunday from toddlers to under 16's, Most Youth teams at the lower clubs are made up of Kids CITY have had.
Football is eating itself at youth level, SKY BT Lap it up. Eccles Sunday league one the oldest and best run with great patrons behind it. Go summer football next season, No winter football ?

I don't agree with the 'no winning & losing' idea but I fully agree with the idea of kids playing on small pitches.

What size does say a U-9 side play on? In the US we play 6v6 and a pitch about maybe 55x40 but with a goal area that's fucking massive due to it not being really differently proportioned.

Goals are like 6.5 ft high which means you get a team that can smash it into the top of the net and the little keeper can never hope to do anything but get an errant hand to it as it smashes in.

Sadly in the US we favor winning over actually knowing how to play the game and it is the ruin of youth soccer as you say.

Cheers

DoomMerchant wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

john68 wrote:Whilst from the clubs' point of view, I see the necessity of this childrens' "meat market", I have never been totally happy with the recruitment methods of many clubs.
Too often, families and kids are sold a dream, built up at a tender age...and then unceremoniously dumped when they are unwanted.

I hope our new campus is a little more caring about our child workers.

Attend a County Cup Game in youth football. 2 things you will see, The standard will be poor bar one or two kids, who have been released back.And the big winter coats from Blackburn, Rochdale, Oldham, Everton still have a big network of scouts clubs looking for the scraps, we do not want or have had and turned away. On the other side the FA say they want small sided games on small pitches. no winning or losing ! Manchester FA and Cheshire and every other local FA are fighting to keep grass roots football alive, it is crazy.

Pro clubs are fishing at every decent game on a Sunday from toddlers to under 16's, Most Youth teams at the lower clubs are made up of Kids CITY have had.
Football is eating itself at youth level, SKY BT Lap it up. Eccles Sunday league one the oldest and best run with great patrons behind it. Go summer football next season, No winter football ?

I don't agree with the 'no winning & losing' idea but I fully agree with the idea of kids playing on small pitches.

What size does say a U-9 side play on? In the US we play 6v6 and a pitch about maybe 55x40 but with a goal area that's fucking massive due to it not being really differently proportioned.

Goals are like 6.5 ft high which means you get a team that can smash it into the top of the net and the little keeper can never hope to do anything but get an errant hand to it as it smashes in.

Sadly in the US we favor winning over actually knowing how to play the game and it is the ruin of youth soccer as you say.

Cheers

Similar size pitch here but with small goals & a size 3? Ball I think.

They actually asked kids what they like/dislike about playing football, & the general idea was they enjoyed playing football, the game itself, playing with their mates etc, not competing for trophies or having people shout at them.

Ted Hughes wrote:

DoomMerchant wrote:

Ted Hughes wrote:

Hazy2 wrote:

john68 wrote:Whilst from the clubs' point of view, I see the necessity of this childrens' "meat market", I have never been totally happy with the recruitment methods of many clubs.
Too often, families and kids are sold a dream, built up at a tender age...and then unceremoniously dumped when they are unwanted.

I hope our new campus is a little more caring about our child workers.

Attend a County Cup Game in youth football. 2 things you will see, The standard will be poor bar one or two kids, who have been released back.And the big winter coats from Blackburn, Rochdale, Oldham, Everton still have a big network of scouts clubs looking for the scraps, we do not want or have had and turned away. On the other side the FA say they want small sided games on small pitches. no winning or losing ! Manchester FA and Cheshire and every other local FA are fighting to keep grass roots football alive, it is crazy.

Pro clubs are fishing at every decent game on a Sunday from toddlers to under 16's, Most Youth teams at the lower clubs are made up of Kids CITY have had.
Football is eating itself at youth level, SKY BT Lap it up. Eccles Sunday league one the oldest and best run with great patrons behind it. Go summer football next season, No winter football ?

I don't agree with the 'no winning & losing' idea but I fully agree with the idea of kids playing on small pitches.

What size does say a U-9 side play on? In the US we play 6v6 and a pitch about maybe 55x40 but with a goal area that's fucking massive due to it not being really differently proportioned.

Goals are like 6.5 ft high which means you get a team that can smash it into the top of the net and the little keeper can never hope to do anything but get an errant hand to it as it smashes in.

Sadly in the US we favor winning over actually knowing how to play the game and it is the ruin of youth soccer as you say.

Cheers

Similar size pitch here but with small goals & a size 3? Ball I think.

They actually asked kids what they like/dislike about playing football, & the general idea was they enjoyed playing football, the game itself, playing with their mates etc, not competing for trophies or having people shout at them.

Its a pretty shouty affair here. Dipshits living vicariously through their kids in the most annoying ways. Some of the women are even worse. Nothing as bad as baseball dads but it's challenging.

The academy my son is at teaches the game itself but we are struggling to attract the best kids because though we pass the ball almost always better than any team we play we have you get kids and little end product so we get beaten by older kids quite handily and it has parents quitting in droves which is a shame. The parents have no idea how good these coaches actually are and get seduced by other local clubs selling the FUD of how shite we were at the last tournament typically were our 8 year olds lost to 10 year olds who look like they shave every other day.

Football at a youth level in the US is only interested in athletes and giant sized cunts. The coaching is also abhorrent. I might as well be out there for most of these "club" sides that coat an arm and a leg and travel around with like 5 teams at each age group flaunting their team politics and affiliations with Nike or some MLS club. It's crap.

Cheers

Hazy2 wrote:

john68 wrote:Whilst from the clubs' point of view, I see the necessity of this childrens' "meat market", I have never been totally happy with the recruitment methods of many clubs.
Too often, families and kids are sold a dream, built up at a tender age...and then unceremoniously dumped when they are unwanted.

I hope our new campus is a little more caring about our child workers.

Attend a County Cup Game in youth football. 2 things you will see, The standard will be poor bar one or two kids, who have been released back.And the big winter coats from Blackburn, Rochdale, Oldham, Everton still have a big network of scouts clubs looking for the scraps, we do not want or have had and turned away. On the other side the FA say they want small sided games on small pitches. no winning or losing ! Manchester FA and Cheshire and every other local FA are fighting to keep grass roots football alive, it is crazy.

Pro clubs are fishing at every decent game on a Sunday from toddlers to under 16's, Most Youth teams at the lower clubs are made up of Kids CITY have had.
Football is eating itself at youth level, SKY BT Lap it up. Eccles Sunday league one the oldest and best run with great patrons behind it. Go summer football next season, No winter football ?

summer football would be fantastic imo
longer evenings, no waterlogged pitches, camps during school holidays etc...

DoomMerchant wrote:
Its a pretty shouty affair here. Dipshits living vicariously through their kids in the most annoying ways. Some of the women are even worse. Nothing as bad as baseball dads but it's challenging.

The academy my son is at teaches the game itself but we are struggling to attract the best kids because though we pass the ball almost always better than any team we play we have you get kids and little end product so we get beaten by older kids quite handily and it has parents quitting in droves which is a shame. The parents have no idea how good these coaches actually are and get seduced by other local clubs selling the FUD of how shite we were at the last tournament typically were our 8 year olds lost to 10 year olds who look like they shave every other day.

Football at a youth level in the US is only interested in athletes and giant sized cunts. The coaching is also abhorrent. I might as well be out there for most of these "club" sides that coat an arm and a leg and travel around with like 5 teams at each age group flaunting their team politics and affiliations with Nike or some MLS club. It's crap.

Cheers

We had the same for 40 years here, lots of people & parents in it for their own egos, & football Philistines ruling the roost from top to bottom. It seems now that finally the idea of actually playing football is coming through, not least because of the influence of foreign coaches/players & watching our best teams get their arses handed to them by Barca etc.

Also some of the cunts are dead, at last.

I worry about Greg Dyke though. Some of the things he 'says' are not so bad, but he has people like Danny Mills & I think Wio 'advising' him.

Would not put it past these cunts to ruin everything just as we begin to get it right & try to fuck up our academy in the process.

I'm in my mid forties now and most of my memories of playing football for the school team at an early age (IE before ten) were of parents shouting sometimes aggressively. If that shit stops (or has stopped) then it can only be a good thing.

Dameerto wrote:I'm in my mid forties now and most of my memories of playing football for the school team at an early age (IE before ten) were of parents shouting sometimes aggressively. If that shit stops (or has stopped) then it can only be a good thing.

Most of that was the old chestnut "get stuck in". No mention of skill, pass and move, find the space, dribble etc

The club I coached at for 11 years has a zero tolerance policy on parents/general public being abusive. The league has also backed the referees to to stop the game until the abuser has been removed or left the general area.

There are respect barriers on every pitch now in junior football and this has had a very positive effect.