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Hart perhaps could have done more with the first goal, although he clearly couldn't see it and with it being so close in and so many bodies in the way he had virtually no reaction time.

The second goal he could do nothing about. The cross came in as nobody pressed the ball, the Polish lad peeled cleverly onto Sagna instead of Kompany, the ball bisected them both and it looped in off his shoulder, off the post and in. Joe had no chance with the header and it was too far out for the cross.

So far we only have 4 players who are playing well this season and one of them is definitely Joe Hart.

As for his distribution, a few went astray last night, but this constant urging for him to release it quickly, too many times there is no counter-attacking option on. Equally we have little height further up the field so kicking it long is difficult to pick a pass and teams are pressing us high up the pitch as they know we like to play from the back, hence why him releasing it early is not always easy and not always on.

As for Neuer - yes he is better than Hart but I thought his distribution was ordinary last night - several times in the first half he played short passes to a City shirt or played one of his team-mates into trouble. He made a couple of good saves.

Mark Garrett wrote:Hart perhaps could have done more with the first goal, although he clearly couldn't see it and with it being so close in and so many bodies in the way he had virtually no reaction time.

The second goal he could do nothing about. The cross came in as nobody pressed the ball, the Polish lad peeled cleverly onto Sagna instead of Kompany, the ball bisected them both and it looped in off his shoulder, off the post and in. Joe had no chance with the header and it was too far out for the cross.

So far we only have 4 players who are playing well this season and one of them is definitely Joe Hart.

As for his distribution, a few went astray last night, but this constant urging for him to release it quickly, too many times there is no counter-attacking option on. Equally we have little height further up the field so kicking it long is difficult to pick a pass and teams are pressing us high up the pitch as they know we like to play from the back, hence why him releasing it early is not always easy and not always on.

As for Neuer - yes he is better than Hart but I thought his distribution was ordinary last night - several times in the first half he played short passes to a City shirt or played one of his team-mates into trouble. He made a couple of good saves.

Neuer s usually excellent but sometimes he tries to be too clever and last night was one of those times, not least with his time wasting.

My view on Hart is that he reached his maximum level, from this point on, he can't get better and we have two options, we either sell him or keep him like he is now. He will make some great games, but then will be the reason we fail to win points.

Last season we won the league in spite of him. As harsh as this sounds, this is the case. He cost us a lot of points the past two seasons and will continue to do the same.

If we need a example of how a keeper must grow, we need to take a look at De Gea.

Love the bloke, hate the 'tache. Get it sorted Joe, I'd have had a black marker through it by now.

Mark Garrett wrote:As for Neuer - yes he is better than Hart but I thought his distribution was ordinary last night - several times in the first half he played short passes to a City shirt or played one of his team-mates into trouble. He made a couple of good saves.

If you watch any goalkeeper regularly they'll make mistakes. I remember a couple of years ago someone putting together a list of mistakes Hart had made, explaining what he should have done and explaining that he should be replaced by Neuer. There was a punch when he should have caught, a rush off the line which didn't work out, trying to push away an attacker at a set piece.Five minutes on YouTube and I found Neuer making every one of those mistakes.

Even in a good season, across all competitions, keepers will be letting in dozens of goals. They're the most obvious culprit in every one of those goals, and if you look for faults you'll find them. The fact that we care more when Hart lets in a goal means that we'll naturally be more critical - and I suspect it would be a marginal difference even if we could bring in any keeper we wanted.

We need an upgrade.

All the comments are interesting & just goes to show how many ways people view things.

I think Joe Hart is a good keeper & would be difficult to improve on, but why can't he improve on some of the problems himself. Distribution is the most obvious and seems to be a no brainer to me, yet at 27 with loads of experience he doesn't seem to be able to remedy that flaw in his game.

Perhaps it the coaches responsibility!

I would also say he is clearly a leader within the team and the squad.

He is a proven quality keeper over a number of seasons and he came back from his poor start to last season very well.

He has played well this season and has been a key member of the side and why we have won the number of trophies we have over the past few years.

Must be kept as our number 1

All the comments are interesting & just goes to show how many ways people view things.

Indeed and there's no wrong opinion. That's what's great about this site.

shortagain wrote:All the comments are interesting & just goes to show how many ways people view things.

I think Joe Hart is a good keeper & would be difficult to improve on, but why can't he improve on some of the problems himself. Distribution is the most obvious and seems to be a no brainer to me, yet at 27 with loads of experience he doesn't seem to be able to remedy that flaw in his game.

Perhaps it the coaches responsibility!

Yes, you might say that, but Joe worked at City with Mancisidor and Battara. Those two gk coaches worked in their life with Toldo, Julio Cesar or Casillas.

The point is that Joe had two key moments in his career. His loan spell at B”gham when he grew a lot and then his first season here, the 2010-2011 campaign. We would expect in the 2011-2012 season for him to grow even further, but instead he reached a level and from there he lost his mojo.

So my point is this. If we look at Pants, he worked with those two from above like Joe did, but for me, Pantilimon left City twice the better keeper he was since he came here. You can see a huge progress at Pants, while Joe is somewhere stuck. It is not the coaches fault, but only his.

There are a heck of a lot of seriously average keepers playing at the top level , let's be thankfull we have England's number one and a good one at that .

City64 wrote:There are a heck of a lot of seriously average keepers playing at the top level , let's be thankfull we have England's number one and a good one at that .

True but all of our "rivals" in PL and Europe have far better. We don't score enough to cover for joes mistakes anymore. IMO we need to move on.

Sideshow Bob wrote:

City64 wrote:There are a heck of a lot of seriously average keepers playing at the top level , let's be thankfull we have England's number one and a good one at that .

True but all of our "rivals" in PL and Europe have far better. We don't score enough to cover for joes mistakes anymore. IMO we need to move on.

Only Chelsea possibly have a better keeper in the PL for me , but then again Joe Hart has won two titles , an FA Cup and a Carling Cup .........think the Chelsea keeper has won fuck all ? ;-)

Sideshow Bob wrote:

City64 wrote:There are a heck of a lot of seriously average keepers playing at the top level , let's be thankfull we have England's number one and a good one at that .

True but all of our "rivals" in PL and Europe have far better. We don't score enough to cover for joes mistakes anymore. IMO we need to move on.

He's made fuck all mistakes this season to be fair.

There are better out there but the very best are unobtainable and you have to consider is it worth spending money on a position to see a marginal improvement? Money that could be spent in other areas more urgently in need of strengthening.

City64 wrote:

Sideshow Bob wrote:

City64 wrote:There are a heck of a lot of seriously average keepers playing at the top level , let's be thankfull we have England's number one and a good one at that .

True but all of our "rivals" in PL and Europe have far better. We don't score enough to cover for joes mistakes anymore. IMO we need to move on.

Only Chelsea possibly have a better keeper in the PL for me , but then again Joe Hart has won two titles , an FA Cup and a Carling Cup .........think the Chelsea keeper has won fuck all ? ;-)

He's won stuff with Atletico, I haven't really seen him in action enough to compare him to Joe though.

But to be fair, there is not a big pool for us to pick from. All the good ones are taken. Leno from Leverkusen looks interesting, but that might be it.

Lloris? Same as Joe.

Maybe Handanovic.

I agree with an earlier post - get Cech as it appears he maybe available come jan
I just have no faith in joe anymore - I've lived with the poor distribution but his whole game is decreasing in quality now

Nonsense Wooders. He's as good as any out there and I wouldn't swap him for anyone.

I'd swap him for manuel in an instant. Obviously.

But that isn't an option

dazby wrote:Nonsense Wooders. He's as good as any out there and I wouldn't swap him for anyone.

Well that makes you clueless then as De GAY is far better than him and so is Cech.