Article about Rags/Welbeck (and City + academy)

[twosips]

Admittedly, this is a relatively tenuous link, but i was reading this and it's a very good piece. It's by the Zonal Marking bloke and i do think he talks a lot of sense in general.

http://www.espnfc.com/blog/tactics-and- ... -character

He talks how Neville mentioned the loss of Welbeck was a weird one for United cos he was more than just a reserve striker, he was one of their own and a proper squad player that did a job for them like the likes of Fletcher, Butt, Nevilles etc over the years have done too. I totally agree with all he says. He then goes on to mention how the likes of ireland, johnson and Micah etc should have been those players for us - our O'Sheas and Wes Browns who hang around for many, many years and become loyal club servants. I totally agree.

Anyway, that wasn't to be but it does bring us to the subject of how our academy will affect the club. We should be looking to produce our own squad players these days and what's to say that someone like Cole won't be our Welbeck for a few years who will do a job anywhere across the front line, work incredibly hard and probably win us the odd game here and there. I want our squad scattered with players like that. We shouldn't have to spend £15m each on players of that kind.

Just thought i'd post it though as its a good thought-provoking article.

[Scatman]

I want our academy to be producing some of the best players on the planet, not just squad players.

They have to come from somewhere. Why can't it be Manchester City?

[Ted Hughes]

City most probably will find a number of top players, but that article is absolutely spot on imo.

It asks the question as to where our 'journeymen' are. We have produced a small number of players from the old academy who were borderline good enough to do a job for City, even now, but for the most part they are fucking basket cases, to add the the rapists muggers & wasters who have passed through without reaching the frst team regularly. Is it coincidence or have they lacked the right kind of guidance ?

But it points the way for the academy now in that as well as producing top players, we can also fill the gaps in the squad, with lads brought up through the ranks at City, who feel a bond with the club, & are willing to go the extra yard when asked.

We have quite a few lads who should attain that standard as a very minimum. The question is whether we try to bring them though at City, or dump them, then spend money filling those positions in the squad, without giving the homegrown players a crack first. We are seeing that very situation right now with Guidetti who could be dumped without playing a single game, with the blessing of many City fans, even though he has an absolutely fantastic scoring record. Not even worth a place on the bench & even half a chance, just get rid.

We have spent a lot of money on players who are no better than the rags' squad players & some who are much worse. For all the pisstaking, the job done over the years by OShea, Brown, Phil Neville, Fletcher, Wellbeck, is infinitely better than City have had from the likes of Savic, Nastasic, Boateng, Rodwell, Sinclair. That's about 60 million quid right there.

We should absolutely look to have two world class players for every position, but in reality, we have Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov, Demichelis, Navas, Sinclair, Nastasic pretty much all at a standard we should be able to at least equal, with academy players & I would say Fernando & Milner also come into that catagory & probably Zabba too tbh. None of them have better footballing ability than some of our academy players. If the kids can match them for physicality, intelligence & will to win, the football ability is there already. We should be able to make up a good percentage of the squad.

That should be priority 2 after trying to find the next Aguero, find a Navas, Clichy etc who can do a job & allow us to spend the big money on Messi MK II.

But we have to make the decision to at least try & use them.

[Wonderwall]

City most probably will find a number of top players, but that article is absolutely spot on imo.

It asks the question as to where our 'journeymen' are. We have produced a small number of players from the old academy who were borderline good enough to do a job for City, even now, but for the most part they are fucking basket cases, to add the the rapists muggers & wasters who have passed through without reaching the frst team regularly. Is it coincidence or have they lacked the right kind of guidance ?

But it points the way for the academy now in that as well as producing top players, we can also fill the gaps in the squad, with lads brought up through the ranks at City, who feel a bond with the club, & are willing to go the extra yard when asked.

We have quite a few lads who should attain that standard as a very minimum. The question is whether we try to bring them though at City, or dump them, then spend money filling those positions in the squad, without giving the homegrown players a crack first. We are seeing that very situation right now with Guidetti who could be dumped without playing a single game, with the blessing of many City fans, even though he has an absolutely fantastic scoring record. Not even worth a place on the bench & even half a chance, just get rid.

We have spent a lot of money on players who are no better than the rags' squad players & some who are much worse. For all the pisstaking, the job done over the years by OShea, Brown, Phil Neville, Fletcher, Wellbeck, is infinitely better than City have had from the likes of Savic, Nastasic, Boateng, Rodwell, Sinclair. That's about 60 million quid right there.

We should absolutely look to have two world class players for every position, but in reality, we have Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov, Demichelis, Navas, Sinclair, Nastasic pretty much all at a standard we should be able to at least equal, with academy players & I would say Fernando & Milner also come into that catagory & probably Zabba too tbh. None of them have better footballing ability than some of our academy players. If the kids can match them for physicality, intelligence & will to win, the football ability is there already. We should be able to make up a good percentage of the squad.

That should be priority 2 after trying to find the next Aguero, find a Navas, Clichy etc who can do a job & allow us to spend the big money on Messi MK II.

But we have to make the decision to at least try & use them.

When do we start to question the powers that be? Emyr Hughes was one that was just let go for a small fee after he had an awesome season with Birmingham?

[mr_nool]

City most probably will find a number of top players, but that article is absolutely spot on imo.

It asks the question as to where our 'journeymen' are. We have produced a small number of players from the old academy who were borderline good enough to do a job for City, even now, but for the most part they are fucking basket cases, to add the the rapists muggers & wasters who have passed through without reaching the frst team regularly. Is it coincidence or have they lacked the right kind of guidance ?

But it points the way for the academy now in that as well as producing top players, we can also fill the gaps in the squad, with lads brought up through the ranks at City, who feel a bond with the club, & are willing to go the extra yard when asked.

We have quite a few lads who should attain that standard as a very minimum. The question is whether we try to bring them though at City, or dump them, then spend money filling those positions in the squad, without giving the homegrown players a crack first. We are seeing that very situation right now with Guidetti who could be dumped without playing a single game, with the blessing of many City fans, even though he has an absolutely fantastic scoring record. Not even worth a place on the bench & even half a chance, just get rid.

We have spent a lot of money on players who are no better than the rags' squad players & some who are much worse. For all the pisstaking, the job done over the years by OShea, Brown, Phil Neville, Fletcher, Wellbeck, is infinitely better than City have had from the likes of Savic, Nastasic, Boateng, Rodwell, Sinclair. That's about 60 million quid right there.

We should absolutely look to have two world class players for every position, but in reality, we have Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov, Demichelis, Navas, Sinclair, Nastasic pretty much all at a standard we should be able to at least equal, with academy players & I would say Fernando & Milner also come into that catagory & probably Zabba too tbh. None of them have better footballing ability than some of our academy players. If the kids can match them for physicality, intelligence & will to win, the football ability is there already. We should be able to make up a good percentage of the squad.

That should be priority 2 after trying to find the next Aguero, find a Navas, Clichy etc who can do a job & allow us to spend the big money on Messi MK II.

But we have to make the decision to at least try & use them.

I guess it all depends on how you define a world class player, but in that bunch you have two guys who played a WC final this summer ... There won't be enough world class players to go around if all the top teams had two for each position in their squads.

[twosips]

I'd say we'd want two for every position who were Champions League quality as opposed to fundamentally 'world class' as that's loosely defined.

[mr_nool]

I'd say we'd want two for every position who were Champions League quality as opposed to fundamentally 'world class' as that's loosely defined.

I agree on that and think that we already have that in our squad, with exceptions to Boyayayayayayata and Sinclair. The problem is that all our players under-preform in that competition.

[twosips]

I'd say we'd want two for every position who were Champions League quality as opposed to fundamentally 'world class' as that's loosely defined.

I agree on that and think that we already have that in our squad, with exceptions to Boyayayayayayata and Sinclair. The problem is that all our players under-preform in that competition.

Yep, and going back to what Ted said, we should be able to produce that. Even the extreme example of Zabaleta is a good one. He's great, one of our best players, but he's hardly this technically outstanding footballer is he? You don't think 'fucking hell how's he done that!' like you do with Yaya/Silva/Aguero. He's a very good footballer who works really fucking hard to be the best player he can be and improves and borders on world class as a result. It's his tenacity that makes him stand out more often than not, and that's an attitude thing. It's in his head. We should, with the right coaching, be able to produce many players who are as comfortable on the ball as he is as its a realistic level and not out of this world and then i guess its all about making sure we produce players with the right mental attributes. If we do that then we're sorted.

We shouldn't be paying nearly £20m for players of Navas' quality - Lopes for example should AT LEAST reach that level of ability. So should Barker, Pozo and Ambrose. If at least two don't then we've failed them as prospects. One of them might even reach above Navas' level and reach Nasri's or go one above that and reach Aguero's. If we can produce 4 Navas' (ability wise), 1 or 2 Nasri's and then once every 3 or 4 years a world beater the level of Aguero then we're fucking set. It's very possible too and that article highlights it well. Not every player produced has to be a world beater and that's fine.

Even if we don't produce an Aguero for many years does it matter when we're producing 50% of our squad ourselves anyway? We can buy the Aguero's then and not worry about buying your Milners, Fernandos and Clichys.