john68 wrote:Zurich,
When a team is failing, there are usually a number of reasons, of which the quality of the manager/coach is just one.
Quite some time ago, I said that we should always be aware that there may be a time when the interests of our owners might be at odds somewhat with the interests of City fans. I am fully convinced that this is the core reason (there may be others) for the downturn in our form.
The whole basis of our game is about quick passing on attack and quick pressing when we want to get possession. Our gameplan requires full backs tearing up and down the line being both defenders and pseudo wingers. The very essence of our strategy requires energy and stamina...tons of it.
Our coaching and sports science people would have been well aware that a long hard season needed to be followed by a rest. They would have known that many of our World Cup players would need recovery time and a properly organised pre-season programme.
Because of our owners decisions to put their commercial interests first, at the expense of the football. Our players aren't suddenly poor players, they are quite simply lethargic and unable to keep the pace that they set last season.
(I amaze myself sometimes) :-)
john68 wrote:Zurich,
When a team is failing, there are usually a number of reasons, of which the quality of the manager/coach is just one.
Quite some time ago, I said that we should always be aware that there may be a time when the interests of our owners might be at odds somewhat with the interests of City fans. I am fully convinced that this is the core reason (there may be others) for the downturn in our form.
The whole basis of our game is about quick passing on attack and quick pressing when we want to get possession. Our gameplan requires full backs tearing up and down the line being both defenders and pseudo wingers. The very essence of our strategy requires energy and stamina...tons of it.
Our coaching and sports science people would have been well aware that a long hard season needed to be followed by a rest. They would have known that many of our World Cup players would need recovery time and a properly organised pre-season programme.
Because of our owners decisions to put their commercial interests first, at the expense of the football. Our players aren't suddenly poor players, they are quite simply lethargic and unable to keep the pace that they set last season.
(I amaze myself sometimes) :-)
john68 wrote:Zurich,
When a team is failing, there are usually a number of reasons, of which the quality of the manager/coach is just one.
Quite some time ago, I said that we should always be aware that there may be a time when the interests of our owners might be at odds somewhat with the interests of City fans. I am fully convinced that this is the core reason (there may be others) for the downturn in our form.
The whole basis of our game is about quick passing on attack and quick pressing when we want to get possession. Our gameplan requires full backs tearing up and down the line being both defenders and pseudo wingers. The very essence of our strategy requires energy and stamina...tons of it.
Our coaching and sports science people would have been well aware that a long hard season needed to be followed by a rest. They would have known that many of our World Cup players would need recovery time and a properly organised pre-season programme.
Because of our owners decisions to put their commercial interests first, at the expense of the football. Our players aren't suddenly poor players, they are quite simply lethargic and unable to keep the pace that they set last season.
(I amaze myself sometimes) :-)
zuricity wrote:john68 wrote:Zurich,
When a team is failing, there are usually a number of reasons, of which the quality of the manager/coach is just one.
Quite some time ago, I said that we should always be aware that there may be a time when the interests of our owners might be at odds somewhat with the interests of City fans. I am fully convinced that this is the core reason (there may be others) for the downturn in our form.
The whole basis of our game is about quick passing on attack and quick pressing when we want to get possession. Our gameplan requires full backs tearing up and down the line being both defenders and pseudo wingers. The very essence of our strategy requires energy and stamina...tons of it.
Our coaching and sports science people would have been well aware that a long hard season needed to be followed by a rest. They would have known that many of our World Cup players would need recovery time and a properly organised pre-season programme.
Because of our owners decisions to put their commercial interests first, at the expense of the football. Our players aren't suddenly poor players, they are quite simply lethargic and unable to keep the pace that they set last season.
(I amaze myself sometimes) :-)
You are correct John, it is too easy to lose sight of the context in which managers operate.Guardiola is hailed as the possible solution to a problem we don't yet have.
The PL and FA cup.are still to play for. I doubt that we could get any further in Europe this season, but who knows.
Clearly many players are not performing , but we have had a tough start to the season and the build up to the xmas period ,is on paper easier than the program so far.
The pounding heart tgat Kun gave us should teach us to be patient fans and never ever give up.However the first blip and some fans become overactive .
Personally, i would like to see if Guardiola can build a team rather than inherit one and take it further.
Hazy2 wrote:zuricity wrote:john68 wrote:Zurich,
When a team is failing, there are usually a number of reasons, of which the quality of the manager/coach is just one.
Quite some time ago, I said that we should always be aware that there may be a time when the interests of our owners might be at odds somewhat with the interests of City fans. I am fully convinced that this is the core reason (there may be others) for the downturn in our form.
The whole basis of our game is about quick passing on attack and quick pressing when we want to get possession. Our gameplan requires full backs tearing up and down the line being both defenders and pseudo wingers. The very essence of our strategy requires energy and stamina...tons of it.
Our coaching and sports science people would have been well aware that a long hard season needed to be followed by a rest. They would have known that many of our World Cup players would need recovery time and a properly organised pre-season programme.
Because of our owners decisions to put their commercial interests first, at the expense of the football. Our players aren't suddenly poor players, they are quite simply lethargic and unable to keep the pace that they set last season.
(I amaze myself sometimes) :-)
You are correct John, it is too easy to lose sight of the context in which managers operate.Guardiola is hailed as the possible solution to a problem we don't yet have.
The PL and FA cup.are still to play for. I doubt that we could get any further in Europe this season, but who knows.
Clearly many players are not performing , but we have had a tough start to the season and the build up to the xmas period ,is on paper easier than the program so far.
The pounding heart tgat Kun gave us should teach us to be patient fans and never ever give up.However the first blip and some fans become overactive .
Personally, i would like to see if Guardiola can build a team rather than inherit one and take it further.
Vinny, said it in his Twitter reply to Piers Morgan, It is not about the money, it is about the trophies. Players love winning trophies as does Guardiola, who relates to great players as he was one, I remember he fell out with Ibra during his 12 months at Barca, The player was used to being THE top dog.
Guardiola treated him as an employee and part of the greatest group ever at Barca, employed to bring trophies to the fans of Barca, Ibra, is now top dog at PSG, the world revolves around him, He has the perfect home, Pep brings players to common thinking or they hissy fit and he tells the club to move them on Robben and Ribery are players who could have gone the other way, but seem to get it as they work like Xavi and Iniesta all be it a different position on the pitch. A great maNanger who can make great players better. BTW Ibra was IMHO fantastic at Barca he just hated being a team player and not TD.
Dameerto wrote:And Hitler was a little bit suspect when it came to human rights.
zuricity wrote:Hazy2 wrote:zuricity wrote:john68 wrote:Zurich,
When a team is failing, there are usually a number of reasons, of which the quality of the manager/coach is just one.
Quite some time ago, I said that we should always be aware that there may be a time when the interests of our owners might be at odds somewhat with the interests of City fans. I am fully convinced that this is the core reason (there may be others) for the downturn in our form.
The whole basis of our game is about quick passing on attack and quick pressing when we want to get possession. Our gameplan requires full backs tearing up and down the line being both defenders and pseudo wingers. The very essence of our strategy requires energy and stamina...tons of it.
Our coaching and sports science people would have been well aware that a long hard season needed to be followed by a rest. They would have known that many of our World Cup players would need recovery time and a properly organised pre-season programme.
Because of our owners decisions to put their commercial interests first, at the expense of the football. Our players aren't suddenly poor players, they are quite simply lethargic and unable to keep the pace that they set last season.
(I amaze myself sometimes) :-)
You are correct John, it is too easy to lose sight of the context in which managers operate.Guardiola is hailed as the possible solution to a problem we don't yet have.
The PL and FA cup.are still to play for. I doubt that we could get any further in Europe this season, but who knows.
Clearly many players are not performing , but we have had a tough start to the season and the build up to the xmas period ,is on paper easier than the program so far.
The pounding heart tgat Kun gave us should teach us to be patient fans and never ever give up.However the first blip and some fans become overactive .
Personally, i would like to see if Guardiola can build a team rather than inherit one and take it further.
Vinny, said it in his Twitter reply to Piers Morgan, It is not about the money, it is about the trophies. Players love winning trophies as does Guardiola, who relates to great players as he was one, I remember he fell out with Ibra during his 12 months at Barca, The player was used to being THE top dog.
Guardiola treated him as an employee and part of the greatest group ever at Barca, employed to bring trophies to the fans of Barca, Ibra, is now top dog at PSG, the world revolves around him, He has the perfect home, Pep brings players to common thinking or they hissy fit and he tells the club to move them on Robben and Ribery are players who could have gone the other way, but seem to get it as they work like Xavi and Iniesta all be it a different position on the pitch. A great maNanger who can make great players better. BTW Ibra was IMHO fantastic at Barca he just hated being a team player and not TD.
Xavi and Iniesta were doing these things before Pep.
So too Ribery and Robben at Bayern .
There is nothing extra these guys are showing because of pep.They have performed well at Bayern ever since they joined.Btw Robben was ,is and will always be a diver !
You could argue like at the rags with Fergie that he saw the decline( too strong) or slacking coming at Barca when he took his sabbatical.
zuricity wrote:Iniesta ? made his debut in 2002.... under Van Khaaaallll of all people. Pep didn't take over until 2008. A good six years establishing the Barca way I think.
Xavi made his debut in 1998 .
Also, I've never thought of Neuer as a goalie in the Trad mode of lumping the ball up front. Even when he was at Schalke 04. Although all goalies do it at some time or other.
Ted Hughes wrote:Guardiola will probably never have to build a side from scratch & why should he ? You don't tell Michael Schumaker to put a gearbox together, you give him the car, ask him how & where it needs improving, then he drives it..
He is a proven operator at the elite end of football management. A legend who changed the face of football, so much so that even England's coaches are now trying to get kids to pass the ball to each other. That's the influence of his Barca team, making argument futile. His team was the backbone of the Spanish World Cup winning team. As soon as he went, then so did Spain; to pieces.
He will expect to be given what he needs for the job, then he adjusts the squad to his liking, does his stuff, & when he feels he's run out of ideas, he doesn't hang around like a bad smell wasting a club's money, he fucks off.
Bayern were an excellent team before him, but they weren't that team we saw at the Etihad. That was something else entirely. And the patched up team which beat us earlier this season, was something totally different, proving he can change & fight fires if he has to.
I rate Pellegrini, but I recon if you swapped managers around for that game City win. Guardiola will insist on that level of workrate from our players & we had more talent on the pitch than they did.
I hope he struggles to fire them up for the return game, as they have nothing to play for.
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