Ched Evans

[kinkylola]

the moron rapist served his sentence, should be allowed to continue his life. Sentence was almost certainly lenient, and that is something that needs to be addressed.

Evans has trained his whole life to be a footballer, he has no other profession. If he is to be denied the chance to be a footballer, then provide him with a list of jobs that you'll allow him to do, and let him do training while serving his sentence. The jail sentence is rehab and release ... we aren't trying to create lifelong criminals, are we?

[Nigels Tackle]

This Ched Evans witch hunt is reaching new levels. I find myself leaning more and more on Evans side and defending his right to earn a living. Just because he is a sportsman, people say he shouldnt be allowed to continue? MP and former tory vice chairman posted the to his 17,000 Twitter followers last night "Ched Evans committed an awful crime, he was punished and served his prison sentence. He should now be free to earn a living. #OldhamAthletic."

Northumbria Police and Crime Commissioner Vera Baird has written to Mike Ashley as sports direct are the biggest sponsors of Oldham: ‘If Oldham Athletic decide to appoint him, I would urge you to withdraw Sports Direct sponsorship at the club. It is tantamount to saying that sexual abuse is OK as long as you can play football."

Say, for instance if Ched was a designer called Michael Kors... would she be leading a campaign to make sure all shops did not stock that brand and that if anybody wore that brand then they are endorsing Rape? Of course not, if she decided not to wear that brand, then thats her right to make that stand. However, if the people of Oldham want a striker who would improve them, then who is she to say they are not allowed.

Some peoples moral compasses are all over the place on this. Does this mean that any convicted criminal who serves their sentence and are then let out at the agreed time as per the rules are no longer allowed to work and must claim benefits forever?

excellent post

no it isn't
if he had a professional qualification (lawyer, dr, accountant) he'd have been struck off so would have to find a different field of work...
like slim says, he needs to look for work elsewhere

[Slim]

Actually the teacher point was a good one, couldn't make a better one than that.

[Wonderwall]

This Ched Evans witch hunt is reaching new levels. I find myself leaning more and more on Evans side and defending his right to earn a living. Just because he is a sportsman, people say he shouldnt be allowed to continue? MP and former tory vice chairman posted the to his 17,000 Twitter followers last night "Ched Evans committed an awful crime, he was punished and served his prison sentence. He should now be free to earn a living. #OldhamAthletic."

Northumbria Police and Crime Commissioner Vera Baird has written to Mike Ashley as sports direct are the biggest sponsors of Oldham: ‘If Oldham Athletic decide to appoint him, I would urge you to withdraw Sports Direct sponsorship at the club. It is tantamount to saying that sexual abuse is OK as long as you can play football."

Say, for instance if Ched was a designer called Michael Kors... would she be leading a campaign to make sure all shops did not stock that brand and that if anybody wore that brand then they are endorsing Rape? Of course not, if she decided not to wear that brand, then thats her right to make that stand. However, if the people of Oldham want a striker who would improve them, then who is she to say they are not allowed.

Some peoples moral compasses are all over the place on this. Does this mean that any convicted criminal who serves their sentence and are then let out at the agreed time as per the rules are no longer allowed to work and must claim benefits forever?

excellent post

no it isn't
if he had a professional qualification (lawyer, dr, accountant) he'd have been struck off so would have to find a different field of work...
like slim says, he needs to look for work elsewhere

Hang on, Footballer isnt one of those professions that gets truck off, are you now saying that even though its not one of those professions, we should make a special case in this instance? Or are you saying a "convicted Rapist" should not work again? What is or is not acceptable? And if its "acceptable" in your eyes, who is to say its acceptable in others eyes?

He kicks a ball for a living FFS. Maybe he should have all image rights removed and he cannot work with the community as it involves minors and the sex register says he cant work with those, even though his crime had nothing to do with minors.

I think majority of people agree that punishing Evans is not the right course of action here, people should attack the sentencing and laws around this crime. Then maybe the next person to commit such a crime may not be young enough to warrant a new contract upon release!

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

It would be more pertinent to ban him from bars, hotel rooms and kebab shops rather than from working with children.

[Lev Bronstein]

Let me get this right. According to the logic shown by some on here, once the sentence has been served the slate can be wiped clean and the criminal can go back to their former life.

Not sure I'd want a convicted paedophile living next door to a school, or a convicted fraudster doing my accounts, or a convicted poisomer working for Greggs.

The truth is that for many crimes just serving the sentence handed down by the courts is not the end of the matter. I was, repeat was, a friend to someone whose computer was found by the police to contain hundreds of images of, let's say, scantily clad schoolgirls. Now this was over ten years ago, I'm sure he's served his sentence, but if he walked into my pub, I'd walk out. He no longer exists as far as I'm concerned.

In Evans case, as I understand it, he's shown no remorse because he has an appeal in process. In that case Ched, keep your head down until it's all over one way or another.

Suppose he does get a contract with a club, how would the club and it's supporters feel if his appeal failed, his conviction stood and he still showed no remorse?

One of the things that annoys the hell out of me about the whole business is that his victim is the one who has had to move and change their identity due to being hounded by Evan's supporters: not him - her!!

[Nigels Tackle]

This Ched Evans witch hunt is reaching new levels. I find myself leaning more and more on Evans side and defending his right to earn a living. Just because he is a sportsman, people say he shouldnt be allowed to continue? MP and former tory vice chairman posted the to his 17,000 Twitter followers last night "Ched Evans committed an awful crime, he was punished and served his prison sentence. He should now be free to earn a living. #OldhamAthletic."

Northumbria Police and Crime Commissioner Vera Baird has written to Mike Ashley as sports direct are the biggest sponsors of Oldham: ‘If Oldham Athletic decide to appoint him, I would urge you to withdraw Sports Direct sponsorship at the club. It is tantamount to saying that sexual abuse is OK as long as you can play football."

Say, for instance if Ched was a designer called Michael Kors... would she be leading a campaign to make sure all shops did not stock that brand and that if anybody wore that brand then they are endorsing Rape? Of course not, if she decided not to wear that brand, then thats her right to make that stand. However, if the people of Oldham want a striker who would improve them, then who is she to say they are not allowed.

Some peoples moral compasses are all over the place on this. Does this mean that any convicted criminal who serves their sentence and are then let out at the agreed time as per the rules are no longer allowed to work and must claim benefits forever?

excellent post

no it isn't
if he had a professional qualification (lawyer, dr, accountant) he'd have been struck off so would have to find a different field of work...
like slim says, he needs to look for work elsewhere

Hang on, Footballer isnt one of those professions that gets truck off, are you now saying that even though its not one of those professions, we should make a special case in this instance? Or are you saying a "convicted Rapist" should not work again? What is or is not acceptable? And if its "acceptable" in your eyes, who is to say its acceptable in others eyes?

He kicks a ball for a living FFS. Maybe he should have all image rights removed and he cannot work with the community as it involves minors and the sex register says he cant work with those, even though his crime had nothing to do with minors.

I think majority of people agree that punishing Evans is not the right course of action here, people should attack the sentencing and laws around this crime. Then maybe the next person to commit such a crime may not be young enough to warrant a new contract upon release!

those professional bodies have chosen to strike off members found guilty of certain crimes
the fa should do the same - it would send out a powerful message

[Cocacolajojo1]

This thread really made me depressed the first time around but thanks Slim, Hutch, Nigel and Lev for bringing some sense into the thread.

I work at uni where there is a strict non-racism policy. If I had been caught calling students racist words, I don't see a future for me in uni. I burnt that bridge. It's what I trained for my entire life by first going to regular school for twelve years and then at uni for 5 more before I started my PhD. That doesn't mean I have a right to stay at uni. It's back to square one for me. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person, it just means that I'm incompatible with uni for the rest of my life. I can probably work somewhere else and make a decent living, have a family, and so on. So can Evans, even if he doesn't play football again.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

This thread really made me depressed the first time around but thanks Slim, Hutch, Nigel and Lev for bringing some sense into the thread.

I work at uni where there is a strict non-racism policy. If I had been caught calling students racist words, I don't see a future for me in uni. I burnt that bridge. It's what I trained for my entire life by first going to regular school for twelve years and then at uni for 5 more before I started my PhD. That doesn't mean I have a right to stay at uni. It's back to square one for me. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person, it just means that I'm incompatible with uni for the rest of my life. I can probably work somewhere else and make a decent living, have a family, and so on. So can Evans, even if he doesn't play football again.

But football doesn't have those rules or that code of conduct in place. You might think it should, but it doesn't.
I made what might appear a flippant comment, suggesting banning him from kebab shops, but what is there about football that should make it a profession that is prohibited to him?

[kinkylola]

Let me get this right. According to the logic shown by some on here, once the sentence has been served the slate can be wiped clean and the criminal can go back to their former life.

Not sure I'd want a convicted paedophile living next door to a school, or a convicted fraudster doing my accounts, or a convicted poisomer working for Greggs.

The truth is that for many crimes just serving the sentence handed down by the courts is not the end of the matter. I was, repeat was, a friend to someone whose computer was found by the police to contain hundreds of images of, let's say, scantily clad schoolgirls. Now this was over ten years ago, I'm sure he's served his sentence, but if he walked into my pub, I'd walk out. He no longer exists as far as I'm concerned.

In Evans case, as I understand it, he's shown no remorse because he has an appeal in process. In that case Ched, keep your head down until it's all over one way or another.

Suppose he does get a contract with a club, how would the club and it's supporters feel if his appeal failed, his conviction stood and he still showed no remorse?

One of the things that annoys the hell out of me about the whole business is that his victim is the one who has had to move and change their identity due to being hounded by Evan's supporters: not him - her!!

strawman arquement, he's not a pedo. I agree the sentence was too lenient, and I also think that currently accepted systems do nothing to rehab people who have committed these crimes. I don't agree that he shouldn't be able to work. As far as I know, evan's hasn't asked people to harass this girl. He has a right to appeals, he has a right to trial.

If you want harsher punishment, I hope that it's agreed and set at a level where once they are released they are judged to have served the time for their crime and can go live life. If you can't define a punishment in terms of years of someone's life, then my suggestion is that we look at other ways to deal with the situation. If you don't want him to be a footballer, he needs a list of professions that would be ok, and he needs training in those professions while serving his time.

The idea that footballers, or any athlete, should be a role model is pretty ridiculous to start with.

[Cocacolajojo1]

But football doesn't have those rules or that code of conduct in place. You might think it should, but it doesn't.
I made what might appear a flippant comment, suggesting banning him from kebab shops, but what is there about football that should make it a profession that is prohibited to him?

I know, and that's the weird part. To be fair, Evans had to do more than a handshake which is Blatter's cure for racism but I still don't think it's right that no rules exist as they do for if you want to work in banking or in a kinder garden . I think football clubs get so much from the community that support them and have to do so little in return (City of course being a big exception to that rule). I don't think footballers need to be perfect human beings but I do think they should be role models and at least accord to the clear anti-violence and anti-racism stance in the league which should be supported by lengthy bans if players commit these fellonies. Right now it's; racist? Ok, don't play for 8 games. Bite someone? Well, don't play for 12 games. Oh, you're fascist, go manage a team why don't you. Plus there's the football clubs' work in the community that football clubs still do (even though I don't think it's proportionate) that requires a fair piece of interaction with kids and teenagers. This girl was underage as far as I understand which makes him unsuitable for that part.

[MilnersJaw]

the moron rapist served his sentence, should be allowed to continue his life. Sentence was almost certainly lenient, and that is something that needs to be addressed.

Evans has trained his whole life to be a footballer, he has no other profession. If he is to be denied the chance to be a footballer, then provide him with a list of jobs that you'll allow him to do, and let him do training while serving his sentence. The jail sentence is rehab and release ... we aren't trying to create lifelong criminals, are we?

been convicted but won't admit his guilt or say sorry to victim. fuck his career.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

But football doesn't have those rules or that code of conduct in place. You might think it should, but it doesn't.
I made what might appear a flippant comment, suggesting banning him from kebab shops, but what is there about football that should make it a profession that is prohibited to him?

I know, and that's the weird part. To be fair, Evans had to do more than a handshake which is Blatter's cure for racism but I still don't think it's right that no rules exist as they do for if you want to work in banking or in a kinder garden . I think football clubs get so much from the community that support them and have to do so little in return (City of course being a big exception to that rule). I don't think footballers need to be perfect human beings but I do think they should be role models and at least accord to the clear anti-violence and anti-racism stance in the league which should be supported by lengthy bans if players commit these fellonies. Right now it's; racist? Ok, don't play for 8 games. Bite someone? Well, don't play for 12 games. Oh, you're fascist, go manage a team why don't you. Plus there's the football clubs' work in the community that football clubs still do (even though I don't think it's proportionate) that requires a fair piece of interaction with kids and teenagers. This girl was underage as far as I understand which makes him unsuitable for that part.

Nope.19 yeArs old.

[Cocacolajojo1]

OK then, understood wrong. The rest stands though even if one might not agree.

[DoomMerchant]

It would be more pertinent to ban him from bars, hotel rooms and kebab shops rather than from working with children.

Eggsackly. That's where he'll do his best repeat bidness.

Cheers

[Lev Bronstein]

Let me get this right. According to the logic shown by some on here, once the sentence has been served the slate can be wiped clean and the criminal can go back to their former life.

Not sure I'd want a convicted paedophile living next door to a school, or a convicted fraudster doing my accounts, or a convicted poisomer working for Greggs.

The truth is that for many crimes just serving the sentence handed down by the courts is not the end of the matter. I was, repeat was, a friend to someone whose computer was found by the police to contain hundreds of images of, let's say, scantily clad schoolgirls. Now this was over ten years ago, I'm sure he's served his sentence, but if he walked into my pub, I'd walk out. He no longer exists as far as I'm concerned.

In Evans case, as I understand it, he's shown no remorse because he has an appeal in process. In that case Ched, keep your head down until it's all over one way or another.

Suppose he does get a contract with a club, how would the club and it's supporters feel if his appeal failed, his conviction stood and he still showed no remorse?

One of the things that annoys the hell out of me about the whole business is that his victim is the one who has had to move and change their identity due to being hounded by Evan's supporters: not him - her!!

strawman arquement, he's not a pedo. I agree the sentence was too lenient, and I also think that currently accepted systems do nothing to rehab people who have committed these crimes. I don't agree that he shouldn't be able to work. As far as I know, evan's hasn't asked people to harass this girl. He has a right to appeals, he has a right to trial.

If you want harsher punishment, I hope that it's agreed and set at a level where once they are released they are judged to have served the time for their crime and can go live life. If you can't define a punishment in terms of years of someone's life, then my suggestion is that we look at other ways to deal with the situation. If you don't want him to be a footballer, he needs a list of professions that would be ok, and he needs training in those professions while serving his time.

The idea that footballers, or any athlete, should be a role model is pretty ridiculous to start with.

I thought someone would bite on the paedo bit, but not the fraudster or poisoner? Ho hum.

I've made no comment on whether his sentence was too lenient or not (which he hasn't completed, he's out on license, and that's why he wasn't allowed to go to Malta). It's not my point. My point is that punishment for a crime does not end when the sentence has been served, the law might have wiped the slate clean, but the rest of society won't, and I gave some examples.

Now, he may not have encouraged people to harass the girl, but it is "alleged mi lud" that others close to him have, and I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to make a clear, public statement asking for the harassment to stop.

As for training of prisoners for an appropriate career when they are let out of prison, you put your finger on one of the present failings of the system.

[carolina-blue]

Some great for's and against 's here unfortunately I dont have a great comment either way heart says cut his balls off head says where do you draw the line time done play on .. But I know one thing is sure on my mums life if he had done it to any of my family He Wouldnt be able to play football again . There wouldnt be this discussion .Hypocritical I know

[Lev Bronstein]

Some great for's and against 's here unfortunately I dont have a great comment either way heart says cut his balls off head says where do you draw the line time done play on .. But I know one thing is sure on my mums life if he had done it to any of my family He Wouldnt be able to play football again . There wouldnt be this discussion .Hypocritical I know

Actually, I don't find that hypocritical. If he'd done anything like that to one of my family I'd want to rip his throat out with my bare hands. But, you'd want the law to rise above revenge. Much prefer Albion to Albania

[carolina-blue]

Some great for's and against 's here unfortunately I dont have a great comment either way heart says cut his balls off head says where do you draw the line time done play on .. But I know one thing is sure on my mums life if he had done it to any of my family He Wouldnt be able to play football again . There wouldnt be this discussion .Hypocritical I know

Actually, I don't find that hypocritical. If he'd done anything like that to one of my family I'd want to rip his throat out with my bare hands. But, you'd want the law to rise

above revenge. Much prefer Albion to

Albania

True mate true . I would let the law have him But a pick axe handle to the knees wouldnt go amiiss

[Im_Spartacus]

This thread really made me depressed the first time around but thanks Slim, Hutch, Nigel and Lev for bringing some sense into the thread.

I work at uni where there is a strict non-racism policy. If I had been caught calling students racist words, I don't see a future for me in uni. I burnt that bridge. It's what I trained for my entire life by first going to regular school for twelve years and then at uni for 5 more before I started my PhD. That doesn't mean I have a right to stay at uni. It's back to square one for me. That doesn't mean I'm a bad person, it just means that I'm incompatible with uni for the rest of my life. I can probably work somewhere else and make a decent living, have a family, and so on. So can Evans, even if he doesn't play football again.

Having been thrown out of a country for unknowingly breaking a law, does that mean my wife loses the trust of every potential university employer in the world? Or, as happened, did a top tier university see fit to consider that against her ability to do the job? Technically, as a Finance Director any breach of trust or criminal offence, really should see her banished on your logic?

In your own field, if you are faculty or a researcher and guilty of racism, how would every university in the world know about this unless you underwent trial by media as Evans is now? And even if it was racism, good faculty will always get another chance because of the economic potential they bring to a university. A racist is a racist, but if he has the potential to find a cure for cancer, most Universities will overlook that for the greater good and their own personal enrichment.

But even 2nd rate faculty can improve a 3rd rate university! See the link here......surely it's the same thing.....the economic potential helps a potential employer see past the bad a person may have done, and most balanced people accept that people make mistakes and learn from them.

And this is the exact situation we have here. A guy has made a mistake, been punished for it, and now is being subject of a witch hunt when he tries to resume his career.

I'm not even interested in the argument about his guilt, that's secondary and will be dealt with in time, but the argument that he should be treated the same as other professions is bollocks and based on petty jealousy that he will retain some degree of his former earning power. Doctors/teachers have a specific position of responsibility towards the people in their care, of course they should be struck off if they fundamentally breach that trust. The guy kicks a football around for a living, and that profession as far as I know, poses no more risk to the general public, as striking off a window cleaner, a postman, or a joiner!