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twosips wrote:I always see this thing about certain players being contracted to play every game mentioned yet i've absolutely no idea where its come from. What's it based on? Someone's mate's opinion at the pub?

intrigues me too. Only realistic shout is yaya. has ALWAYS played when fit and rarely ever gets subbed; even when hes having a mare

twosips wrote:I always see this thing about certain players being contracted to play every game mentioned yet i've absolutely no idea where its come from. What's it based on? Someone's mate's opinion at the pub?

I'll ignore the tone of the reply, because clearly you didn't read what I wrote properly.

The premier league has a little known rule designed to prevent to clubs from stockpiling players then holding them to their contract against their will if they are nowhere near the first team. I can't remember the exact detail, but it's something along the lines of playing in 25% of the games a player is available for - below that, the player has the right to seek a transfer at a vastly reduced amount.

Hence, clubs have to play the squad players even if just for a couple of minutes every now and again to avoid falling foul of this (if they want to keep them - if we don't, the only reason they will stay is they couldn't earn the same wages elsewhere), and this is what blocks the blooding of kids in the last few minutes of games we are cruising in.

Where can I find this rule written down and how come NO papers ever mention it?

And I was referring to the speculation that is often on here that Yaya is contracted to play every game.

twosips wrote:Where can I find this rule written down and how come NO papers ever mention it?

And I was referring to the speculation that is often on here that Yaya is contracted to play every game.

Most journalists are lazy and ignorant, and would rather write about us ruining kids than the actual practicalities of why we don't play pozo etc when cruising in a game.

A manager would be crazy not to, particularly given our investment in youth, yet it doesn't seem to strike anybody as odd that in the last 2 years hardly any of them have had a sniff of game time.

I've seen it mentioned a few times by managers in interviews over the years, and a very few times in the written press. I suspect it is filed under a human rights directive along the lines that you can't prevent someone from free movement when you have no intention of ever playing them, so either play them or let them leave (which i think includes allowing them out on loan eg Sinclair, Richards)

I expect the reason that this issue never comes up in practise, is that the club manage appearances carefully, so a player who finds themselves in this situation either wants to move so will accept a pay cut to go permanently or out on loan (as per Adebayor), or the contract is so good they are greedy cunts and stay put (eg Danny mills)

Im_Spartacus wrote:

twosips wrote:Where can I find this rule written down and how come NO papers ever mention it?

And I was referring to the speculation that is often on here that Yaya is contracted to play every game.

Most journalists are lazy and ignorant, and would rather write about us ruining kids than the actual practicalities of why we don't play pozo etc when cruising in a game.

A manager would be crazy not to, particularly given our investment in youth, yet it doesn't seem to strike anybody as odd that in the last 2 years hardly any of them have had a sniff of game time.

I've seen it mentioned a few times by managers in interviews over the years, and a very few times in the written press. I suspect it is filed under a human rights directive along the lines that you can't prevent someone from free movement when you have no intention of ever playing them, so either play them or let them leave (which i think includes allowing them out on loan eg Sinclair, Richards)

I expect the reason that this issue never comes up in practise, is that the club manage appearances carefully, so a player who finds themselves in this situation either wants to move so will accept a pay cut to go permanently or out on loan (as per Adebayor), or the contract is so good they are greedy cunts and stay put (eg Danny mills)

This is not the reason we don't play kids. The players who we bring on in these games all play regularly, & the ones we don't care about, who would fall foul of that rule, such as Sinclair, don't play anyway. We could easily afford to give kids playing time at the end of games, it doesn't apply at all.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Im_Spartacus wrote:

twosips wrote:Where can I find this rule written down and how come NO papers ever mention it?

And I was referring to the speculation that is often on here that Yaya is contracted to play every game.

Most journalists are lazy and ignorant, and would rather write about us ruining kids than the actual practicalities of why we don't play pozo etc when cruising in a game.

A manager would be crazy not to, particularly given our investment in youth, yet it doesn't seem to strike anybody as odd that in the last 2 years hardly any of them have had a sniff of game time.

I've seen it mentioned a few times by managers in interviews over the years, and a very few times in the written press. I suspect it is filed under a human rights directive along the lines that you can't prevent someone from free movement when you have no intention of ever playing them, so either play them or let them leave (which i think includes allowing them out on loan eg Sinclair, Richards)

I expect the reason that this issue never comes up in practise, is that the club manage appearances carefully, so a player who finds themselves in this situation either wants to move so will accept a pay cut to go permanently or out on loan (as per Adebayor), or the contract is so good they are greedy cunts and stay put (eg Danny mills)

This is not the reason we don't play kids. The players who we bring on in these games all play regularly, & the ones we don't care about, who would fall foul of that rule, such as Sinclair, don't play anyway. We could easily afford to give kids playing time at the end of games, it doesn't apply at all.

In all honesty, regardless what I've written above, I would tend to agree with you as the stats suggest we don't have a particularly large squad with important players kicking their heels for large parts of the season that we need to keep happy either.

So when you look at it statistically, out of a season of say 65 games, we have nearly 700 starting berths and a further 200 playing substitute opportunities, we gave Lopes 3 chances and Huws 1, there is a big problem somewhere along the lines when only 0.5% of all opportunities to play were given to a young talent. This is pretty pitiful.

Particularly when I'm sure I've read Khaldoon somewhere saying that one of the measures a manager is judged on is developing youth

Unless the intention is solely to develop talent to be sold in order to find the purchase of superstars, we seem to be really fucking up in this area

The count is not going to risk shit.end of story.

Cheers

DoomMerchant wrote:The count is not going to risk shit.end of story.

Cheers

But if spartacus is correct in that one of the measures a manager is judged on, is bringing through young lads from the Academy, then he'd be an idiot not to do it. Better to lose with having blooded a couple than not to have done.

It certainly won't happen in Champs league, nor in a lot of Prem games, but the League cup was a disappointment. I'm sure in the new year we might see more subs from EDS.

Can understand Pellers reasoning though and he sees the players. Maybe this is a season too early for most of them and next season is when the Academy bears fruit

DoomMerchant wrote:The count is not going to risk shit.end of story.

Cheers

He's not in a position to risk anything this season from his point of view - and the club is kind of to blame for the expectation on him. (Not that I'm saying I disagree with us expecting to do well, just that it would be nice to do well AND play a youngster or two ideally).

Fuck me not another stupid we must play kids thread. Personally I think Pozo is the real deal and he will break in shortly.

But usually the bottom line is you cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Giving people first team experience doesn't necessarily make them good enough, Mr Dyke.

It just weakenes your team and you lose matches. Great.

Im_Spartacus wrote:

twosips wrote:Where can I find this rule written down and how come NO papers ever mention it?

And I was referring to the speculation that is often on here that Yaya is contracted to play every game.

Most journalists are lazy and ignorant, and would rather write about us ruining kids than the actual practicalities of why we don't play pozo etc when cruising in a game.

A manager would be crazy not to, particularly given our investment in youth, yet it doesn't seem to strike anybody as odd that in the last 2 years hardly any of them have had a sniff of game time.

I've seen it mentioned a few times by managers in interviews over the years, and a very few times in the written press. I suspect it is filed under a human rights directive along the lines that you can't prevent someone from free movement when you have no intention of ever playing them, so either play them or let them leave (which i think includes allowing them out on loan eg Sinclair, Richards)

I expect the reason that this issue never comes up in practise, is that the club manage appearances carefully, so a player who finds themselves in this situation either wants to move so will accept a pay cut to go permanently or out on loan (as per Adebayor), or the contract is so good they are greedy cunts and stay put (eg Danny mills)

TBH this rule rings a bell with me too, not sure of the details but there is definitely something true about this.

However, Pozo would have been given a run out at the weekend if we had put the game to bed early and had subs available and were not down to 10 etc. We dont want them to be thrown in at the deep end but I think we might see a 2-3 on the bench tonight.

our injuries, suspensions and invisible squad players mean the kids will be on the bench tonight.

Team
Joe Hart

Gael Clichy
Bacary Sagna
Martin Demichelis
Pablo Zabaleta

Fernandinho Luiz Roza
Yaya Toure
Samir Nasri
Jesus Navas
Stevan Jovetic

Sergio Aguero


Subs
Willy Caballero
Dedryck Boyata
Fernando Francisco Reges
Frank Lampard
James Milner
Jose Angel Pozo
Jose Angel Tasende/Shay Facey? We need another defender on the bench


Injured/Suspended/MIA
Eliaquim Mangala
Aleksandar Kolarov
Vincent Kompany
Matija Nastasic
David Silva
Scott Sinclair
Edin Dzeko

john@staustell wrote:Fuck me not another stupid we must play kids thread. Personally I think Pozo is the real deal and he will break in shortly.

But usually the bottom line is you cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Giving people first team experience doesn't necessarily make them good enough, Mr Dyke.

It just weakenes your team and you lose matches. Great.

We don't have 'sow's ears' in City's academy anymore & we have a queue forming of players who are potentially good enough. And at some point, we have to potentially 'weaken the team' with one or two kids. We can't wait 'til they are all 23; we have to make the decision when we will start to use them.

I wouldn't recommend any of the current kids to start games YET, but I would recommend rotating a couple of them as substitutes & giving them a run out if the circumstances allowed it during the remainder of te season. Now we have no strikers fit, we have Pozo on the bench but he will be gone as soon as Dzeko is fit. Imo, he & Barker should be taking turns on the bench & Barker would possibly work as an impact player at times. Several should have figured vs Newcastle, & from now on every FA Cup game (& Europa League game if we drop into that) should feature at least one or two on the bench even possibly one or two starting.

Next season, we should be looking to have kids on the bench for almost every game, and getting them on the pitch whenever possible, several starting in cup games. The season after, several should be regulars in City's squad & first team.

If not, we should sack the Count & find a manager who can, & will, do it.

The rags just beat Stoke with James Wilson starting & Falcao on the bench. Wilson is fast, & was miles better than Falcao was when he came on.

Wonderwall wrote:Interview by Micah


When did you know the time had come to move on, that manager Manuel Pellegrini was perhaps not your biggest fan?

Richards: "He brought me off in the FA Cup against Watford. We were losing, I thought I was having a decent game. Not amazing. Not bad, but I wasn't the worst player on the pitch by any stretch. And he brought me off at half-time and brought a right-back, Pablo Zabaleta, on. No disrespect, a right-back isn't going to change the game. At that point, I thought maybe he has lost a bit of faith in me."

I'm assuming he didn't stay to watch the 2nd half of that game then...
Bringing on Zabs for Sagna didn't vs Bayern didn't hurt us either

Pozo!!!

dazby wrote:Pozo!!!

Yes and Angelino made the bench.
Good to see.

iwasthere2012 wrote:

dazby wrote:Pozo!!!

Yes and Angelino made the bench.
Good to see.

indeed, good to see. shame Pozo couldn't get involved as much as I would've hoped but still, nice to see him make his PL debut. made couple of good runs but players chose to pass elsewhere. would be nice to see him get some more minutes on Saturday too!

Moonchesteri wrote:

iwasthere2012 wrote:

dazby wrote:Pozo!!!

Yes and Angelino made the bench.
Good to see.

indeed, good to see. shame Pozo couldn't get involved as much as I would've hoped but still, nice to see him make his PL debut. made couple of good runs but players chose to pass elsewhere. would be nice to see him get some more minutes on Saturday too!

Great that he has been involved for a couple of games and no doubt at all Edin will take his place back soon.I was a little disappointed in him from the bits I have seen tonight.I was hoping to see him dropping deeper at times to get some touches rather than basically be marked.I think he can handle the ball when marked but the passes were not being made so maybe go and get the ball , as Kun does at times, and make the play from there.He is good at doing that anyway but maybe he was a little overawed tonight.

The more time they have, involved with the first team, the better. Not just for the two tonight. It'll put a great buzz about the rest of the academy.

i wish Pozo had gotten more time after we went up 4-1 in the 71st. 15 minutes of normal time or so would've been nice.

phips wrote:i wish Pozo had gotten more time after we went up 4-1 in the 71st. 15 minutes of normal time or so would've been nice.

Well I certainly didn't see this coming tonight

Pellers must think he's shown something in training, fuck me, faith in the kids goes from none, to placing a whole game on the lads shoulders

Great to see though, hope it works out