Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Sideshow Bob » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:23 pm

twosips wrote: Also bring through Barker perhaps.


only if price is right.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby london blue 2 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 8:55 pm

Hate to point out the obvious but Yaya is a 6ft plus brick shit house playing in a defensive midfield (all be it creative) position. David is a 5ft 8 attacking floating forward.

Yaya must do better defensively. He's proper proper lazy and the comparison is bullshit. Yaya has it in his locker to defend as well as most in world football. Silva most certainly doesn't.

Although IMO he tries harder.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:23 am

london blue 2 wrote:Hate to point out the obvious but Yaya is a 6ft plus brick shit house playing in a defensive midfield (all be it creative) position. David is a 5ft 8 attacking floating forward.

Yaya must do better defensively. He's proper proper lazy and the comparison is bullshit. Yaya has it in his locker to defend as well as most in world football. Silva most certainly doesn't.

Although IMO he tries harder.


If that's true, then if you count his assists, plus goals scored, Yaya is in a different class as a player to David Silva, & we should therefore look after him, even if that means sacrificing Silva.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby getdressedmctavish » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:55 am

No real answers here, and there never will be while people see Fernandinho as a solution to anything, or Jovetic for that matter. The fact is simple. If you let your man go the rest of the team is in trouble and Ya Ya is now doing it all the time whilst doing fuck all when he gets the ball.Teams will target Dave and Ya Ya in the chumps. Someone else has to step up to free them. That someone else we paid 30 million for and he's shown no sign of it.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby london blue 2 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:52 am

Ted Hughes wrote:
london blue 2 wrote:Hate to point out the obvious but Yaya is a 6ft plus brick shit house playing in a defensive midfield (all be it creative) position. David is a 5ft 8 attacking floating forward.

Yaya must do better defensively. He's proper proper lazy and the comparison is bullshit. Yaya has it in his locker to defend as well as most in world football. Silva most certainly doesn't.

Although IMO he tries harder.


If that's true, then if you count his assists, plus goals scored, Yaya is in a different class as a player to David Silva, & we should therefore look after him, even if that means sacrificing Silva.


Sacrificing silva won't help as teams will still continue to waltz past yaya time and time again leaving the defence in shit.

a) it's easier to accommodate a less defensive player further up the pitch (silva, messi, Ronaldo, hazard, di Maria etc)

b) Yayas best position is deep lying centre mid. If he plays there he has to do better defensively, especially now he's decided he won't make those mad lung bursting runs anymore.

Possibly playing ferna 1 and 2 alongside him might work against better teams but that means dropping edin?
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Hazy2 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:44 am

london blue 2 wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:
london blue 2 wrote:Hate to point out the obvious but Yaya is a 6ft plus brick shit house playing in a defensive midfield (all be it creative) position. David is a 5ft 8 attacking floating forward.

Yaya must do better defensively. He's proper proper lazy and the comparison is bullshit. Yaya has it in his locker to defend as well as most in world football. Silva most certainly doesn't.

Although IMO he tries harder.


If that's true, then if you count his assists, plus goals scored, Yaya is in a different class as a player to David Silva, & we should therefore look after him, even if that means sacrificing Silva.


Sacrificing silva won't help as teams will still continue to waltz past yaya time and time again leaving the defence in shit.

a) it's easier to accommodate a less defensive player further up the pitch (silva, messi, Ronaldo, hazard, di Maria etc)

b) Yayas best position is deep lying centre mid. If he plays there he has to do better defensively, especially now he's decided he won't make those mad lung bursting runs anymore.

Possibly playing ferna 1 and 2 alongside him might work against better teams but that means dropping edin?


Yaya is not the future, unless we play in Paris. Sad to say but whatever he say's he is doing what he did in Barca, slow end, they did not do to bad after he fooked off........ did they.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Mikhail Chigorin » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:58 am

Hazy2 wrote:
london blue 2 wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:
london blue 2 wrote:Hate to point out the obvious but Yaya is a 6ft plus brick shit house playing in a defensive midfield (all be it creative) position. David is a 5ft 8 attacking floating forward.

Yaya must do better defensively. He's proper proper lazy and the comparison is bullshit. Yaya has it in his locker to defend as well as most in world football. Silva most certainly doesn't.

Although IMO he tries harder.


If that's true, then if you count his assists, plus goals scored, Yaya is in a different class as a player to David Silva, & we should therefore look after him, even if that means sacrificing Silva.


Sacrificing silva won't help as teams will still continue to waltz past yaya time and time again leaving the defence in shit.

a) it's easier to accommodate a less defensive player further up the pitch (silva, messi, Ronaldo, hazard, di Maria etc)

b) Yayas best position is deep lying centre mid. If he plays there he has to do better defensively, especially now he's decided he won't make those mad lung bursting runs anymore.

Possibly playing ferna 1 and 2 alongside him might work against better teams but that means dropping edin?


Yaya is not the future, unless we play in Paris. Sad to say but whatever he say's he is doing what he did in Barca, slow end, they did not do to bad after he fooked off........ did they.


I'd prefer Silva all year long over Yaya. To my mind, Yaya often looks and plays like a man who is ten years older than his 'official' age.

IMHO Yaya is a luxury that we can now no longer afford and we've got to get shut of him as soon as possible, in order to get a decent transfer sum back on him.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Hazy2 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:58 am

Isco, Reus, Benzema would transform. This week we have seen two team confirm the Elite teams are miles better than anyone if they want to be. Sadly we a mile of that, which is fine as every other fooker is as well.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:16 am

This is the same Yaya who scored 20 goals last season & set up what should have been 2 goals vs CSKA ?

And the same Silva who failed to even try to kick the ball into the net when totally unmarked, yet again, overhit god knows how many passes some of which in situations where goals could have been set up pretty easily had he not hoofed the ball over the goal line when failing to execute a ten yard pass ? The same bloke who had Milner running around the pitch from one side to the other babysitting for him because he can't be trusted to do it himself ?

He was fine on the night, but Yaya should have done more ?


The team was cack when we lost possession. It's no more Yaya's fault or Yaya's job than any of the 'untouchables'. It fell apart due to lots of players not covering well enough, but even moreso, due to players who are supposed to pass the ball, being shite on the ball THEN not covering well enough.

The team was crap, again, as it always is in Europe. And the fact that it's left to some great big hulking fucker who struggles to drag his frame around the pitch & is now 31 years old, to sort it out, is wrong. It was wrong when Mancini trusted him to do that job in Munich all those years ago & vs Dortmund & it's still wrong now. It's been proven wrong time & again.

You wouldn't trust Silva to do it, so don't trust Yaya either. They are both best art passing the ball & doing a 'bit' of tracking back & in Yaya's case, also scoring. Neither should be asked to track players reliably in our half, just to work hard at covering when we lose the ball. Both should be expected to get themselves between oppo & our goal whenever possible as should ALL the team. Yaya works harder at that, than DS & Aguero & also Dzeko vs CSKA, who was very disappointing in that regard, but the whole lot of them need to be pressing much better & not keep taking time off. Or we need a different lineup of players.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:18 am

Hazy2 wrote:Isco, Reus, Benzema would transform. This week we have seen two team confirm the Elite teams are miles better than anyone if they want to be. Sadly we a mile of that, which is fine as every other fooker is as well.



And we have seen Isco, work much harder than our attacking players, even though he gave the ball away badly on numerous occasions. He ran his balls off to recover it & he worked tirelessly all night. If he can do that, then so can Silva, Nasri etc.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby sheblue » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:50 am

Excellent thread and some excellent points.
Every player on the planet has their faults, we can pick on silva, kompany, yaya, zabs etc etc and single out their faults, all players have faults.
We have the payers they are good enough to do much better.
The CL problem is largely a mental problem.
I dont think the answer is to go out and spend 200 mill, the problems wont just go away.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:09 am

sheblue wrote:Excellent thread and some excellent points.
Every player on the planet has their faults, we can pick on silva, kompany, yaya, zabs etc etc and single out their faults, all players have faults.
We have the payers they are good enough to do much better.
The CL problem is largely a mental problem.
I dont think the answer is to go out and spend 200 mill, the problems wont just go away.


I think that if the managers accept that Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Yaya etc are probably not going to play football like they do in the Prem, then accept that those players together are not going to be good enough defensively, we can start to work on producing a TEAM which gets results in that competition.

Once the results come, then the confidence to pass the ball properly will probably come with it & we won't need to be legging it after the ball all over the shop, because we will have the ball & be creating all manner of shit at the other end.

We would put 6 past that CSKA defence in a Prem game.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Hazy2 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:05 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:
Hazy2 wrote:Isco, Reus, Benzema would transform. This week we have seen two team confirm the Elite teams are miles better than anyone if they want to be. Sadly we a mile of that, which is fine as every other fooker is as well.



And we have seen Isco, work much harder than our attacking players, even though he gave the ball away badly on numerous occasions. He ran his balls off to recover it & he worked tirelessly all night. If he can do that, then so can Silva, Nasri etc.


Isco is not the free spirit he was at Malaga, he will also get better, this Madrid team does not need goal scoring MF's they have the firepower where it is best.
I am impressed with Carlo A , He never gets a mention with us, but has nailed the Holly grail for Madrid, and has like Pellers calmed the club down, big thing that as the deluded one had lost the plot. Plus he had two of his 1st choice missing last night. he knows how to win the big one our owners want.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Mikhail Chigorin » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:15 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:This is the same Yaya who scored 20 goals last season & set up what should have been 2 goals vs CSKA ?

And the same Silva who failed to even try to kick the ball into the net when totally unmarked, yet again, overhit god knows how many passes some of which in situations where goals could have been set up pretty easily had he not hoofed the ball over the goal line when failing to execute a ten yard pass ? The same bloke who had Milner running around the pitch from one side to the other babysitting for him because he can't be trusted to do it himself ?

He was fine on the night, but Yaya should have done more ?


The team was cack when we lost possession. It's no more Yaya's fault or Yaya's job than any of the 'untouchables'. It fell apart due to lots of players not covering well enough, but even moreso, due to players who are supposed to pass the ball, being shite on the ball THEN not covering well enough.

The team was crap, again, as it always is in Europe. And the fact that it's left to some great big hulking fucker who struggles to drag his frame around the pitch & is now 31 years old, to sort it out, is wrong. It was wrong when Mancini trusted him to do that job in Munich all those years ago & vs Dortmund & it's still wrong now. It's been proven wrong time & again.

You wouldn't trust Silva to do it, so don't trust Yaya either. They are both best art passing the ball & doing a 'bit' of tracking back & in Yaya's case, also scoring. Neither should be asked to track players reliably in our half, just to work hard at covering when we lose the ball. Both should be expected to get themselves between oppo & our goal whenever possible as should ALL the team. Yaya works harder at that, than DS & Aguero & also Dzeko vs CSKA, who was very disappointing in that regard, but the whole lot of them need to be pressing much better & not keep taking time off. Or we need a different lineup of players.


Just an ironic thought Ted, but you seem to be conducting an enthusiastic advocacy of Yaya, in much the same way as you did for Lescott last season.

On that basis, I wonder if Yaya is fated to follow Joleon out of the door ??
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Ted Hughes » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:44 pm

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:This is the same Yaya who scored 20 goals last season & set up what should have been 2 goals vs CSKA ?

And the same Silva who failed to even try to kick the ball into the net when totally unmarked, yet again, overhit god knows how many passes some of which in situations where goals could have been set up pretty easily had he not hoofed the ball over the goal line when failing to execute a ten yard pass ? The same bloke who had Milner running around the pitch from one side to the other babysitting for him because he can't be trusted to do it himself ?

He was fine on the night, but Yaya should have done more ?


The team was cack when we lost possession. It's no more Yaya's fault or Yaya's job than any of the 'untouchables'. It fell apart due to lots of players not covering well enough, but even moreso, due to players who are supposed to pass the ball, being shite on the ball THEN not covering well enough.

The team was crap, again, as it always is in Europe. And the fact that it's left to some great big hulking fucker who struggles to drag his frame around the pitch & is now 31 years old, to sort it out, is wrong. It was wrong when Mancini trusted him to do that job in Munich all those years ago & vs Dortmund & it's still wrong now. It's been proven wrong time & again.

You wouldn't trust Silva to do it, so don't trust Yaya either. They are both best art passing the ball & doing a 'bit' of tracking back & in Yaya's case, also scoring. Neither should be asked to track players reliably in our half, just to work hard at covering when we lose the ball. Both should be expected to get themselves between oppo & our goal whenever possible as should ALL the team. Yaya works harder at that, than DS & Aguero & also Dzeko vs CSKA, who was very disappointing in that regard, but the whole lot of them need to be pressing much better & not keep taking time off. Or we need a different lineup of players.


Just an ironic thought Ted, but you seem to be conducting an enthusiastic advocacy of Yaya, in much the same way as you did for Lescott last season.

On that basis, I wonder if Yaya is fated to follow Joleon out of the door ??


There's a thread somewhere on here, after the first time we played Bayern away in the Champs Lg, under Mancini, & on that thread, I am arguing the point, that Yaya is no fucking use at tracking people & that asking him to do so, is a big mistake. I pointed out how he would run a few steps with Ribery, then let him go & we wre always one pass away from disaster. There is quite a lot of argument against me. I said in the Dortmund thread, that leaving Yaya with Rodwell & allowing Silva etc to stand in Dortmund's half doing fuck all, was stupid. In the Europa, in Ukraine, he was fucking diabolical, & deserved shooting. I said last year that people comparing Yaya to Colin Bell, are talking absolute shite.

The difference is, that now, like Lescott, Yaya is being made a scapegoat for inadequate team performances. He is, & always has been, a liability without the ball. The only difference is that now people have decided to start picking on him & the media is keen to help.

If it keeps up, no doubt he will be driven out, which will be fucking stupid, seeing as he is one of the best players in the country.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby zuricity » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:58 pm

getdressedmctavish wrote:No real answers here, and there never will be while people see Fernandinho as a solution to anything, or Jovetic for that matter. The fact is simple. If you let your man go the rest of the team is in trouble and Ya Ya is now doing it all the time whilst doing fuck all when he gets the ball.Teams will target Dave and Ya Ya in the chumps. Someone else has to step up to free them. That someone else we paid 30 million for and he's shown no sign of it.


Could hardly fault Ferd or jove on Tuesday 12 mins and 4 mins ( plus e.t) .
"Well I'll go to the foot of our stairs."
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby leewonpen » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:47 pm

Totally agree with Teds original post.also we commit our fullbacks forward which leaves both centre backs exposed.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Hazy2 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:32 pm

leewonpen wrote:Totally agree with Teds original post.also we commit our fullbacks forward which leaves both centre backs exposed.


Was that not Why we waited for Fernando. we overplay, we fail to to do as Madrid did 2nd half last night control the game and jog through with a big game at the weekend. We have the player we lack the elite hardness. That hard nosed pro who has your number whatever you try.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Original Dub » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:25 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:
Mikhail Chigorin wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:This is the same Yaya who scored 20 goals last season & set up what should have been 2 goals vs CSKA ?

And the same Silva who failed to even try to kick the ball into the net when totally unmarked, yet again, overhit god knows how many passes some of which in situations where goals could have been set up pretty easily had he not hoofed the ball over the goal line when failing to execute a ten yard pass ? The same bloke who had Milner running around the pitch from one side to the other babysitting for him because he can't be trusted to do it himself ?

He was fine on the night, but Yaya should have done more ?


The team was cack when we lost possession. It's no more Yaya's fault or Yaya's job than any of the 'untouchables'. It fell apart due to lots of players not covering well enough, but even moreso, due to players who are supposed to pass the ball, being shite on the ball THEN not covering well enough.

The team was crap, again, as it always is in Europe. And the fact that it's left to some great big hulking fucker who struggles to drag his frame around the pitch & is now 31 years old, to sort it out, is wrong. It was wrong when Mancini trusted him to do that job in Munich all those years ago & vs Dortmund & it's still wrong now. It's been proven wrong time & again.

You wouldn't trust Silva to do it, so don't trust Yaya either. They are both best art passing the ball & doing a 'bit' of tracking back & in Yaya's case, also scoring. Neither should be asked to track players reliably in our half, just to work hard at covering when we lose the ball. Both should be expected to get themselves between oppo & our goal whenever possible as should ALL the team. Yaya works harder at that, than DS & Aguero & also Dzeko vs CSKA, who was very disappointing in that regard, but the whole lot of them need to be pressing much better & not keep taking time off. Or we need a different lineup of players.


Just an ironic thought Ted, but you seem to be conducting an enthusiastic advocacy of Yaya, in much the same way as you did for Lescott last season.

On that basis, I wonder if Yaya is fated to follow Joleon out of the door ??


There's a thread somewhere on here, after the first time we played Bayern away in the Champs Lg, under Mancini, & on that thread, I am arguing the point, that Yaya is no fucking use at tracking people & that asking him to do so, is a big mistake. I pointed out how he would run a few steps with Ribery, then let him go & we wre always one pass away from disaster. There is quite a lot of argument against me. I said in the Dortmund thread, that leaving Yaya with Rodwell & allowing Silva etc to stand in Dortmund's half doing fuck all, was stupid. In the Europa, in Ukraine, he was fucking diabolical, & deserved shooting. I said last year that people comparing Yaya to Colin Bell, are talking absolute shite.

The difference is, that now, like Lescott, Yaya is being made a scapegoat for inadequate team performances. He is, & always has been, a liability without the ball. The only difference is that now people have decided to start picking on him & the media is keen to help.

If it keeps up, no doubt he will be driven out, which will be fucking stupid, seeing as he is one of the best players in the country.


You don't see a difference in yaya's form?

I do. Big time.

Either way, while it is being discussed... I believe Silva is far more integral when it comes to dictating how we play.

Yaya is a luxury.
Silva is not.
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Re: Yaya, Vinny, Silva, Nasri, Defence etc

Postby Piccsnumberoneblue » Fri Oct 24, 2014 12:19 pm

When Big Dave doesn't play we look hopelessly short of ideas and spark.
City and sniffing knickers.
Come on Blues.
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