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I saw in the highlights that Navas still hasn't stopped with his imaginary card waving.

I think it's a yellow card for doing that hand signal. I also think it should be subject to punishment afterwards if the ref didn't see it. Do it twice and you're out of the game. While they're at it, they can also hand out cards for crowding the ref and being injured outside of the pitch but then crawling back onto it to be able to delay play. In fact, if they do that I think one person in the audience should be shot at random.

Any thoughts on this?

Fabregas did it after every challenge one of our players made on a Chelsea player when we played them so I'd imagine Navas won't stop it ever.

Cocacolajojo wrote:I saw in the highlights that Navas still hasn't stopped with his imaginary card waving.

I think it's a yellow card for doing that hand signal. I also think it should be subject to punishment afterwards if the ref didn't see it. Do it twice and you're out of the game. While they're at it, they can also hand out cards for crowding the ref and being injured outside of the pitch but then crawling back onto it to be able to delay play. In fact, if they do that I think one person in the audience should be shot at random.

Any thoughts on this?

Shooting one spectator at random seems quite harsh. But if you make sure it's a home/away fan depending on who is the one acting and you are onto something here.

Seriously tho, these all are things that could (and should) easily be removed from our game but for some very strange reason nobody does anything about it.

There is too much cheating of all forms going on in football, clearly fifa uefa have not got the balls to sort it out.
you also hear TV commentators and pundits saying such a player should have committed a professional foul here there and everywhere, as if its the normal thing to do, in affect saying its OK to be a cheat when its not. What example is that setting to kids when watching. We have all seen it in under age games when kids are mimicking the actions of their hero's.
Its wrong.

Referee Oliver gave a penalty yesterday for wrestling in the box. I hope his lead is followed as this is one of the biggest spoilers in the game largely ignored by ref's, which is why it flourishes. Skirtle wouldn't finish a game!

It winds me right up when I see players do this, and it disappoints me when it's a city player (I remember SWP went through a phase).

But why? We regularly hear commentators saying something like "...and he's clearly telling the ref that the tackle he got booked for was no worse than that one, and to be honest I think he's got a point": complaining to the ref that that should've been a booking/sending off is not frowned upon in any way (unless there's a few of them crowding round him), even though the body language & general circumstances make the meaning obvious to everyone. If you waggle your hand in a certain way, though, everyone's up in arms and it's "something we don't like to see".

It still does my head in when I see it, but maybe that's because I've been conditioned to react like that.

If you watched the Argentina v Brazil game last week, you would have seen Neymar handle the ref about 5 times in a minute, I don't know how he stayed on the pitch, friendly or no friendly, it was ridiculous that he got away with it.

It would have to be a clear imaginary card though.

Does the waver have to be in the box or the wavee?

Original Dub wrote:It would have to be a clear imaginary card though.

Indeed, poor Italian refs wouldn't know if they're coming or going.

Mase wrote:Fabregas did it after every challenge one of our players made on a Chelsea player when we played them so I'd imagine Navas won't stop it ever.

Some of the antics and consistent fouling that Fabregas gets away with is startling. He seems to be able to commit 20 fouls before any thought of a card from the ref, and that's aside from the card waving, backchat and way he behaves on the field. One of the players you aren't allowed to tackle just like Pires was when he played at Arsenal.

shortagain wrote:Referee Oliver gave a penalty yesterday for wrestling in the box. I hope his lead is followed as this is one of the biggest spoilers in the game largely ignored by ref's, which is why it flourishes. Skirtle wouldn't finish a game!

You could give a penalty on every corner kick that Shawcross and Skrtel defend and its about time someone did. If refs gave pens for it as they should, the offence would disappear very quickly.

Rooney's won many a penalty through waving an imaginary card...

Original Dub wrote:It would have to be a clear imaginary card though.

Indeed. But what if a player put his hand to an imaginary pocket in his shorts, where a card could conceivably be hidden?...he hasn't pulled it out, but is the intention there? I'd introduce amber cards for this

Wonderwall wrote:If you watched the Argentina v Brazil game last week, you would have seen Neymar handle the ref about 5 times in a minute, I don't know how he stayed on the pitch, friendly or no friendly, it was ridiculous that he got away with it.

I saw that and it was disgusting. neymar and all of the other cunt brasilians like marcelo were pushing and shoving the ref with total impunity....in a fucking friendly!! fifa should have taken retrospective action. but we all know the marketability of their little golden boy must be protected.

Bianchi on Ice wrote:

Original Dub wrote:It would have to be a clear imaginary card though.

Indeed. But what if a player put his hand to an imaginary pocket in his shorts, where a card could conceivably be hidden?...he hasn't pulled it out, but is the intention there? I'd introduce amber cards for this

I'd imagine this would work.
Clearly.

What's the difference between a player just actually saying 'that's a booking ref!' (Which they all do - every single player, even probably us in Sunday league games) to someone waving a card? There isn't one.

Maybe a silly point, but waving the imaginary card puts more pressure on the ref, since you're showing forty odd thousands in the stands what you think (and what they should be thinking) - not to mention the million watching it on the telly. Telling the ref that it was a booking stays between the two of you.

mr_nool wrote:Maybe a silly point, but waving the imaginary card puts more pressure on the ref, since you're showing forty odd thousands in the stands what you think (and what they should be thinking) - not to mention the million watching it in the telly. Telling the ref that it was a booking stays between the two of you.

The only difference is that we see it happen so we care. It's that simple (and stupid imo)... no one gives a fuck if its person to person - its usually the foreigners doing it too cos of language barriers which fits the cheating foreigner stereotype.

The only difference is that we see it happen so we care. It's that simple (and stupid imo)... no one gives a fuck if its person to person - its usually the foreigners doing it too cos of language barriers which fits the cheating foreigner stereotype.

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with basically any of that.

1. You have no idea if I or anyone else thinks about people talking to the ref contra waving an imaginary card. I'd be all for the ref giving someone a yellow card for mouthing off and I only think the team captain should be allowed to talk to the ref, for example. Crowding the ref is a lousy thing to do IMHO. Plus you see a lot of people getting worked up about cursing and that sort of stuff, especially if it comes from a certain captain across town. Furthermore, just because I think a player should be banned for life for doing something racist, doesn't mean I think it's ok for someone to mouth off about jewish conspiracies, lebensraum and slavic underhumans to the ref. I think both are bad and I presume and hope the refs to something about both. So take it easy with the presumptions :).

2. I can only speak for myself but I'm from Sweden, you are all foreigners to me, so it doesn't really matter if a player comes from Spain or England.

3. When you want to defend people from perceived racism you ought to make sure you're not belittling the very people you're trying to defend. I bet even Tevez knew how to say "booking" "red card" "yellow card" or "penalty (which by the way is penalty, pronounced penaaalty, in Spanish). They're from another country, they're not dumber than dogs. Also, there's no language barrier between players plying their trade in the Spanish league and their referees who are also from Spain, for example.

4. In the end, there's also the signal value. If you strike down on card waving, that will most likely send a signal to the players not to try to influence the ref to the same degree anymore. What happens after that I guess would be the issue for the next debate or thread on this forum.