The mancityfans.net football forum

I know there are plenty on here that are interested in and knowledgeable of City's history, so I want to let everyone know that for a limited time my latest research is free to download: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... 014.961378

This helps to correct a few myths about Manchester football and concludes that City's success led to Manchester developing its football identity. It answers those who say the club has No History with evidence and facts on the impact City had on Manchester football's growth.

It also includes pricing details (showing the broad range of ticket prices and their comparison with living costs) and shows that in 1904 the dearest individual match ticket (an upholstered seat, no hospitality) was the same cost as weekly rent for a house in Gorton.

There's lots more in there.

It's published in an academic journal and will be available for free for a limited time, so please take this opportunity to download it.

I don't get paid for any of this research as it's all part of my self funded PhD, but it will help promote my research each time it's downloaded, so that may aid future research opportunities.

Thanks for reading and I'm sure you'll all get some snippet at least from it. As I say it gives evidence to back up the argument and will therefore be useful in any debates anyone has on the significance of MCFC's history.

Thanks again.

Thanks for that Gary, It is much appreciated and it looks like my reading matter is sorted out for a few days.

I'm not sure whether many people understand just how important this stuff is to our understanding of City's heritage. Much of our club's early written archive and it's written history was destroyed in the Hyde Road ground fire in the early 1920s and I believe a certain chairman binned a substantial amount of our later history in a clear out of Maine Road. Because of that, yours and others relentless research has become invaluable.....Thanks again.

Many current City fans became Blues because they were influenced by their fathers and likewise their fathers too. The history and heritage of City, is therefore, a part of the the history and heritage of their own families.

Personally, my Father was born in 1904 and I grew hearing stories of players he had watched in his youth. Meredith amongst them. Through him, me, my children and now my grandchildren and into the future, City's successes and failures have impacted on my family's life.

This stuff in invaluable, not only as a football but as a family thing. Thanks again

My, there is some cracking stuff in there .... Cheers Gary!

john68 wrote:This stuff in invaluable, not only as a football but as a family thing. Thanks again

Yes, this is how I feel as well. Thank you very much, Gary.

Much obliged Gary!

Thanks for all the comments so far. Much appreciated. Please pass on the link to anyone you know. It'll be good to spread the word and let people read this while it's free to download.

I agree entirely with the comments on the importance of researching this. I've been doing this since the 1980s with my first book published when I was 21 in 1989, and even though I've spent thousands of hours trawling through long forgotten newspapers and other material, there is still much more to reveal.

One area I'd like to research does concern the specifics of who attended in the 1880s to 1940s. Who were they? What was their background etc. when I seriously pursue that the family info of all Blues will be important as it will help shape the story.

Anyway, all of that's for the future. In the meantime please enjoy the published paper's free download. Thanks

Superb. Many thanks

Thanks to all whose downloaded it and for your comments. I'm not certain how long it'll be free to download so if you've not got it yet here's a reminder of the link http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... #tabModule

Thanks again for the comments etc.

Gazza, I did some reading on Billy Meredith's career. Was he hung out to dry with the bribery scandal? Was bribery commonplace and he made an example of?

Meredith - don't get me started! He claimed he didn't attempt to bribe villa and their capt was Leake, respected England international. Leake was never questioned properly and I think Meredith was picked on because he and City were upstarts (bit like today!).

The bribery soon became a minor issue and it was the illegal payments that brought the punishment. City were definitely picked on there. Meredith himself says that after the punishments almost every major club tried to sign him/his colleagues on better terms than the illegal payments they received at City.

FA and the respected clubs like Villa, Everton and those the FA loved didnot like young upstart City with all the money and large fan base!

john68 wrote:Thanks for that Gary, It is much appreciated and it looks like my reading matter is sorted out for a few days.

I'm not sure whether many people understand just how important this stuff is to our understanding of City's heritage. Much of our club's early written archive and it's written history was destroyed in the Hyde Road ground fire in the early 1920s and I believe a certain chairman binned a substantial amount of our later history in a clear out of Maine Road. Because of that, yours and others relentless research has become invaluable.....Thanks again.

Many current City fans became Blues because they were influenced by their fathers and likewise their fathers too. The history and heritage of City, is therefore, a part of the the history and heritage of their own families.

Personally, my Father was born in 1904 and I grew hearing stories of players he had watched in his youth. Meredith amongst them. Through him, me, my children and now my grandchildren and into the future, City's successes and failures have impacted on my family's life.

This stuff in invaluable, not only as a football but as a family thing. Thanks again

Did your old fella ever talk about Peter Doherty, John? And if so, what did he say?

Peter- I've interviewed quite a few fans and former players from that era or who were boys in that era. Without exception they tend to describe Doherty as the greatest City player of all time. In 1974 Joe Mercer described him as the greatest Irish footballer of all time - at a point when Best had achieved all he was going to achieve (in terms of great performances etc.) - and Danny Blanchflower shared that view.

It's difficult to tell who greatest players really are - was Doherty better than Bell or Silva? - but in terms of each generation Doherty appears to be head and shoulders above the rest.

Gary,
I can remember sometime during the late 60s, the Football Pink did a readers poll regarding whether Bell or Doherty was the best ever City player.

At the time, King Colin was in his pomp but Doherty won the poll.

gary james wrote:Peter- I've interviewed quite a few fans and former players from that era or who were boys in that era. Without exception they tend to describe Doherty as the greatest City player of all time. In 1974 Joe Mercer described him as the greatest Irish footballer of all time - at a point when Best had achieved all he was going to achieve (in terms of great performances etc.) - and Danny Blanchflower shared that view.

It's difficult to tell who greatest players really are - was Doherty better than Bell or Silva? - but in terms of each generation Doherty appears to be head and shoulders above the rest.

Thanks for the response, Gary. Shankley once said to Alan Hudson after he'd played a game (I think for Stoke) against Liverpool that he'd played the most 'complete' game of football he'd seen since Peter Doherty in his pomp.

Nearly misses this, love freebies me ;-)

Cheers Gary, your work, with others, is very much appreciated. I try myself with the research but it ends up with me getting so engrossed I forget the bigger picture of getting it out there.

When's the next book?

Next book - can't say yet, but will be announcing something in 2015. Thanks for all the comments. Cheers

Thanks for that Gary, brilliant stuff as usual.
As an aside, I saw a bit of a programme on BBC 3 recently about football violence, and all this "firm" stuff. Amongst two or three others (Bury and Spuds were two). City were featured very heavily. For anyone who's not aware, it seems that it's not really football related, the club connection just seems a convenient flag to have gang fights under, and the fights seem to be arranged on social media, away from the stadiums.
Now TBH, I find the whole thing pointless, but the reason for posting is that it's basically gang warfare, or what was called "scuttling" in the 1880's, and one of the main reasons given for starting the club in the first place.
Talk about full circle!

Thanks patrickblue for the comments. Interesting stuff.

I was on bbc radio manchester last night talking about my research and some of you may be interested in that. The interview starts after about 60 mins. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0287ws0

The research paper is still free to download here at the moment. Get it while you can http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... EZdmWK9KK3

Thanks again to everyone who has helped/been interested. Cheers