Financial Foul Play - The End is Nigh

[DoomMerchant]

You listened to that entire interview and all you took from it was "so we don't have another portsmouth"??

Excellent yet again.

stop bullying him. You might turn him into a reasonable poster. Dickhead.

cheers

[DoomMerchant]

Oh how about a rule whereby the gate receipts are shared between two participating clubs and perhaps a rule whereby television money is shared equally? That would surely help all we clubs stay in business and perhaps be competitive and ambitious.
Oh yeah, it uses to be like that before those 'concerned' clubs like filth, arse and Liverpool threatened to form a breakaway league if it wasn't ended. Never ever believe for one second they give a shit about the likes of Pompey

US sports leagues have similar models to what you've described, and the NFL, arguably the most even playing field among all the leagues in terms of competitiveness, has the most shared revenue model...all the licensing, and TV rights are shared equally, and visiting teams get 40% of the gate from a game. And there's more, but that's a basic overview. It works in addition to the caps, and financial models that basically have created parity if your team is managed well, which means the frontoffice setup, scouting, and player analysis is even more critical than ever.

No reason English football shouldn't be investing in itself and making the teams at the bottom of the league capable of finding amazing players and grooming them. As it stands now, the "cartel" is the main reason that English football has suffered internationally imho.

cheers

[Ted Hughes]

Ffp, was originally an idea to bring in legislation to stop clubs from borrowing huge sums of money & getting into trouble. That was it, full stop.

Suddenly, under pressure from unknown people, but including non other than Berlusconi, Mr Platini announces that it should also stop people from investing money into teams & spending above their usual income. Initially this was under the guise of protecting the clubs, because the owner could demand his money back & land the club in huge debt.

Then someone had a word again, & it became the rule that even if the owner gave the club the money for nothing, they still couldn't spend it on players or wages, as this would push up the cost of transfer fees & wages across the board.

Meanwhile they were having an ongoing dialogue with City about how this would be implemented & how transfer fees & wages before a certain period could be written off.

When the time came, those fees were not written off; included in the ffp calculation and City were given sanctions, after believing they had passed the ffp criteria hence huge outrage & borderline legal action, put off by sponsors.

In the meantime, the Glazers piled up debt on Utd putting the 'world's biggest.club' in potential financial difficulty & then, by coincidence, after barely spending any money, just as City are about to be assessed for ffp, they up Rooney's wages beyond all reason, chuck ridi ulous fees at Mata & Fellaini, then as we are sanctioned, they commit 200 million quid into transfers & pay fucking ridiculous wages to a 29 year old. Also coincidentally, at exactly the same time, Arsenal suddenly start spending money.
So we have a major club in huge debt, at risk of being destabilised financially, pushing up wages & inflating the transfer market EXACTLY WHAT FFP WAS SUPPOSED TO STOP & a club with no debt who paid less for Silva & Toure than Utd did for Fellaini & Shaw & is breaking even EXACTLY WHAT FFP WAS SUPPOSED TO ENCOURAGE.

One of those clubs is fined & sanctioned.

[Cocacolajojo1]

Again, I recommendthe book why England lose. On this very subject they listed all of the clubs that composed the original four top divions of the league system and found that very few of these had stopped existing mid aughties. Most clubs don't disappear. They go down, they go into adminstration, teh fans cry a bit and grow a sense of underdog humour and move on. As there's a lot of emotional value attached to a club a sympathetic millionare comes in, or someone like Bates comes in and makes a profit of other fans' sentimentality but nonetheless saves the club and turns it around. And then, in some cases, they score in overtime and then win on penalties to get promoted, start climbing up the system and after a takeover, they win the lottery and have a chance of competing for the highest honours again and you know what, they fucking win the league through a sensation goal and even Martin Tyler gets exited and he doesn't get exited for fuck. He mumbles and speaks distractedly through all games he comments, but on this occassion he actually screams his voice sore.

A true fairy tale story that should cheer anyone up except it can never happen again as long as FFP is in place.

Last time I checked Portsmouth was still alive and kicking in league 2. I bet the fans that still go enjoy their games and revel in pride of having followed their beloved club down, although they would certainly prefer for it to be higher up again, perhaps repeating their FA-cup run. But that's football, it's a fucking crap shoot when you pick your club unless you make a rational and non-emotional choice about it. At least it should be. I know I like football because it's unpredictable. Stoke can win at the Etihad if they play a good game. FFP works against that.

[Sideshow Bob]

while i agree that its bullshit as is, shouldn't we have something like this in place? so we avoid stuff like what happened to Portsmouth...

a football club is a business. some businesses fail. what is the problem with that?

[Scatman]

while i agree that its bullshit as is, shouldn't we have something like this in place? so we avoid stuff like what happened to Portsmouth...

a football club is a business. some businesses fail. what is the problem with that?

Precisely.

Portsmouth got relegated a few times and may not now have two pennies to rub together. But it still exists. The fans would never let it die. Ask AFC Wimbledon.

[Beefymcfc]

Platini must feel that some cunt's wiped his dick on the pillows after scuttling his Mrs. They've well and truly had him over without a reach-round on this one and must now forget all the nicey-nicey French Lace that he puts on everything and now see them for the duplicitous cunts that they really are.

wouldn't say that's 'Taking one for the team' Monsieur Platini, more like gang raped by your G14 cronies.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Oh how about a rule whereby the gate receipts are shared between two participating clubs and perhaps a rule whereby television money is shared equally? That would surely help all we clubs stay in business and perhaps be competitive and ambitious.
Oh yeah, it uses to be like that before those 'concerned' clubs like filth, arse and Liverpool threatened to form a breakaway league if it wasn't ended. Never ever believe for one second they give a shit about the likes of Pompey

US sports leagues have similar models to what you've described, and the NFL, arguably the most even playing field among all the leagues in terms of competitiveness, has the most shared revenue model...all the licensing, and TV rights are shared equally, and visiting teams get 40% of the gate from a game. And there's more, but that's a basic overview. It works in addition to the caps, and financial models that basically have created parity if your team is managed well, which means the frontoffice setup, scouting, and player analysis is even more critical than ever.

No reason English football shouldn't be investing in itself and making the teams at the bottom of the league capable of finding amazing players and grooming them. As it stands now, the "cartel" is the main reason that English football has suffered internationally imho.

cheers

The reason I made that suggestion was that those were precisely the conditions we used to have prior to the (at the time) Big Five threatening a breakaway league. It allowed all clubs a bit of a chance. That is how we had clubs such as Forest, Derby, Ipswich, Soton and QPR to have decent challenges at the title.
From its inception in the 19th century the Football League recognised that a league is only as strong as it's weakest club, and had those measures in place accordingly.
This is why nobody should ever buy that crap about protecting clubs such as Pompey. The biggest teams sold them out and didn't give a shit if they went under, as long as they got a bigger slice of the pie. Nearly all the pie as it turned out.

[patrickblue]

while i agree that its bullshit as is, shouldn't we have something like this in place? so we avoid stuff like what happened to Portsmouth...

He came up with it in the interview. Money up front!
Also if you look at how it works FFP wouldn't have prevented the Portsmouth debacle.

[FA cup winners 2006]

Are we coming to a stage where we would be in favour of FFP?

Sheikh Mansour was never going to put in hundreds of millions year after year for transfers. Although we didnt want FFP while we were investing heavily, i feel we are now at the point where we have assembled a quality squad, put the infrastructure in place for youth development and we have grown our revenues substantially. If some sort of FFP was not introduced, then the danger would be that we would never see the youth players introduced as challenging the new rich club in town would mean spending big every summer and not giving the 18/19 year olds a chance in the team. Going forward i hope we will be able to see a blend of experienced long serving players and quality youth products from the academy.

Even though this may not be the fairest system, it is probably too late to hurt us significantly, maybe slow us down, and our management team (Txiki, Sorriano etc) are probably in favour of such a system, and need such a system to fill the first team with academy graduates.

[Socrates]

Are we coming to a stage where we would be in favour of FFP?

Sheikh Mansour was never going to put in hundreds of millions year after year for transfers. Although we didnt want FFP while we were investing heavily, i feel we are now at the point where we have assembled a quality squad, put the infrastructure in place for youth development and we have grown our revenues substantially. If some sort of FFP was not introduced, then the danger would be that we would never see the youth players introduced as challenging the new rich club in town would mean spending big every summer and not giving the 18/19 year olds a chance in the team. Going forward i hope we will be able to see a blend of experienced long serving players and quality youth products from the academy.

Even though this may not be the fairest system, it is probably too late to hurt us significantly, maybe slow us down, and our management team (Txiki, Sorriano etc) are probably in favour of such a system, and need such a system to fill the first team with academy graduates.

This is why the club always backed FFP, they saw it as potentially advantageous but after growing to a critical size. The response was never to fight it just to get big before it was implemented. People thought they were just playing lip service but all the evidence suggests otherwise.

[Mikhail Chigorin]

Are we coming to a stage where we would be in favour of FFP?

Sheikh Mansour was never going to put in hundreds of millions year after year for transfers. Although we didnt want FFP while we were investing heavily, i feel we are now at the point where we have assembled a quality squad, put the infrastructure in place for youth development and we have grown our revenues substantially. If some sort of FFP was not introduced, then the danger would be that we would never see the youth players introduced as challenging the new rich club in town would mean spending big every summer and not giving the 18/19 year olds a chance in the team. Going forward i hope we will be able to see a blend of experienced long serving players and quality youth products from the academy.

Even though this may not be the fairest system, it is probably too late to hurt us significantly, maybe slow us down, and our management team (Txiki, Sorriano etc) are probably in favour of such a system, and need such a system to fill the first team with academy graduates.

This is why the club always backed FFP, they saw it as potentially advantageous but after growing to a critical size. The response was never to fight it just to get big before it was implemented. People thought they were just playing lip service but all the evidence suggests otherwise.

Both these posts are spot on, but why does it feel so unsavoury, cheap and dirty to be climbing into bed with the other inbred members of the corrupt cartel ??

We can't do it, of course, but wouldn't it be nice to be principled and fight against Platini and the whole rotten FFP house of cards, with a view to bringing it down from the outside.

[Ted Hughes]

City don't back FFP at all, they voted against it & fought to stop it being brought into the Premier League, so they are hardly going to be backing it in Europe.

Not one shred of evidence to suggest City backed ffp anywhere at any time. They have reserved the right to take legal action as well.

Absolutely the plan has been to break even & become self sufficient, but that's got fuck all to do with ffp, it's just that nobody in their right mind would want to keep spending 100 mil per year on a football club, when it's perfectly capable of financing itself long term.

[Socrates]

City don't back FFP at all, they voted against it & fought to stop it being brought into the Premier League, so they are hardly going to be backing it in Europe.

Not one shred of evidence to suggest City backed ffp anywhere at any time. They have reserved the right to take legal action as well.

Absolutely the plan has been to break even & become self sufficient, but that's got fuck all to do with ffp, it's just that nobody in their right mind would want to keep spending 100 mil per year on a football club, when it's perfectly capable of financing itself long term.

They opposed the Premier League version as it is more restrictive and, more importantly, removed the option of spending as they wished and just being restricted for a while in UEFA competitions. They certainly have made no such noises about the UEFA version other than when they felt they were being treated unfairly by the sanctions under it. Is perfectly possible to back one but not the other if you see one as ultimately being in your favour but not the other.

[Original Dub]

There is no way City wanted FFP.

Of course not.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

But we would benefit from it now.

I hope they stick to their principles

[gillie]

? How many top class players have we missed out on due to the current constraints imposed on us by FFP.

[Ted Hughes]

City don't back FFP at all, they voted against it & fought to stop it being brought into the Premier League, so they are hardly going to be backing it in Europe.

Not one shred of evidence to suggest City backed ffp anywhere at any time. They have reserved the right to take legal action as well.

Absolutely the plan has been to break even & become self sufficient, but that's got fuck all to do with ffp, it's just that nobody in their right mind would want to keep spending 100 mil per year on a football club, when it's perfectly capable of financing itself long term.

They opposed the Premier League version as it is more restrictive and, more importantly, removed the option of spending as they wished and just being restricted for a while in UEFA competitions. They certainly have made no such noises about the UEFA version other than when they felt they were being treated unfairly by the sanctions under it. Is perfectly possible to back one but not the other if you see one as ultimately being in your favour but not the other.

The Premier League version is far less restrictive in every single aspect, from squad limitations to financial spending. We are on record as opposing it.

Here is a quote from Khaldoon:

"We have zero debts. We don't pay a penny to service any debt. For me, that is a sustainable model. However, our friends in UEFA seem to believe otherwise.

"They have a view, we have ours, I disagree with their views, but we are pragmatic. But I think there is one thing our fans need to know: we will do as always what is best for this club and for the fans. And if it means sometimes it means to take a pinch, we will take a pinch, and we will move on.

"And we will be pragmatic and know that we have the right model, we believe in this model, and it is the right model. And at the same time it will not compromise us and it will not compromise the strategy that we have started and we will continue to implement."

"I'm really looking forward to six years from now when we look back at this interview and we look back at financial fair play and these rules and regulations which have been put in place, which have a particular model in mind, in that they preserve other models that I disagree with, and the model that we have started on six years ago and is going to take us forward on the next six years - and I think history will judge what was right for football.

"I have all the confidence in the world where we are going to be in six years and what we are going to show in terms of being the right model. I really look forward to that interview in May 2020."

No way on earth can anyone possibly take that as anything other than City disagreeing with ffp. He's not mentioning the sanctions there, he is mentioning that he actually disagrees with the 'model' that FFP , 'seeks to preserve'. There is no room for misinterpretation here, he is CLEARLY saying he doesn't agree with it.

He is basically saying exactly the same as us: FFP preserves the rags etc etc whilst punishing us. He is saying that fans can rest assured that IN SPITE OF FFP, it won't change the way City operate, & we are on course with OUR model, & we will see who was right.

City do not, & never have, backed FFP & there is no evidence anywhere to support the idea that they do.

[DoomMerchant]

Holy shit... So Soccs is a chunky windbag of bolloxy proportions whose opinions shift like the wind when cornered? Well I never....

Cheers

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Holy shit... So Soccs is a chunky windbag of bolloxy proportions whose opinions shift like the wind when cornered? Well I never....

Cheers

Chuckling away to myself about that post.