Financial Foul Play - The End is Nigh

[johnny crossan]

Monsieur Dupont predicts the demise of FFPR on Keys & Gray today

Watch on youtube.com

interesting stuff (well I think so anyway)

[carl_feedthegoat]

Excellent.....

[Mikhail Chigorin]

Absolutely....and even Keys and Graham, at the end of the recording, were using the word 'cartel', which is an expression we've been using for a long time on this forum.

Thanks for posting that JC, it made very good listening which, otherwise, most would have missed..

[Original Dub]

Fantastic.

The beginning of the end. Just like most of us predicted.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Have Keys and Gray been talking about this for long? I can't remember anybody from the main stream media talking like that except for Martin Samuel and David Conn.
I so want FFP ruled illegal so all those whining twats have to eat their words.
I also wonder if the likes of Newcastle and Everton fans are waking up to it yet? It wasn't long ago I was arguing on a break with two Geordies who seemed to seriously believe their opening gambit of "something had to be done to stop City"
Just the reply "why" seemed to confuse them, and they really couldn't get their heads around FFP being bad news for them. Strange really, it seems so obvious.

[Bianchi on Ice]

Have Keys and Gray been talking about this for long? I can't remember anybody from the main stream media talking like that except for Martin Samuel and David Conn.
I so want FFP ruled illegal so all those whining twats have to eat their words.
I also wonder if the likes of Newcastle and Everton fans are waking up to it yet? It wasn't long ago I was arguing on a break with two Geordies who seemed to seriously believe their opening gambit of "something had to be done to stop City"
Just the reply "why" seemed to confuse them, and they really couldn't get their heads around FFP being bad news for them. Strange really, it seems so obvious.

I know...obvious. It was obvious to Lerner, because he knew that selling Villa on was going to be made very difficult, as it is proving. I've not read one view from a City fan happy in the knowledge that the sleeping giants in football, some famous old names across Europe, have had the drawbridge pulled up in front of them. Yes, we made it in, and City provoked the response, but Ive yet to fathom how its considered unfair for a wealthy individual or company to invest money in its own business.

[Original Dub]

Fantastic.

The beginning of the end. Just like most of us predicted.

[phips]

while i agree that its bullshit as is, shouldn't we have something like this in place? so we avoid stuff like what happened to Portsmouth...

[Bianchi on Ice]

while i agree that its bullshit as is, shouldn't we have something like this in place? so we avoid stuff like what happened to Portsmouth...

Something should be in place, but not this...nothing like it.

[john68]

Phips,

Throughout the history of football, clubs have risen and fallen. what has happened at Leeds, Portsmouth and almost at Chelsea is nothing new. Over the years there is a long list of clubs who have failed, often (possibly usually) because of financial mismanagement. It is worth noting that had the FFP regs in its current format been in place, it would not have stopped those clubs suffering the same fate.

You may well be right that something should be in place but please note that currently, debt is not considered. Many of those leading elite clubs are in huge debt but that is fine. City on the other hand have no debt, can afford to invest and in all other areas (youth, community etc) are streets ahead of other clubs in abiding by UeFA's principles.

[Socrates]

Phips,

Throughout the history of football, clubs have risen and fallen. what has happened at Leeds, Portsmouth and almost at Chelsea is nothing new. Over the years there is a long list of clubs who have failed, often (possibly usually) because of financial mismanagement. It is worth noting that had the FFP regs in its current format been in place, it would not have stopped those clubs suffering the same fate.

You may well be right that something should be in place but please note that currently, debt is not considered. Many of those leading elite clubs are in huge debt but that is fine. City on the other hand have no debt, can afford to invest and in all other areas (youth, community etc) are streets ahead of other clubs in abiding by UeFA's principles.

Absolutely right, sustainability rules could have been introduced but they weren't! Some good rules could still be put in place if their were a mood to do so. Maximum debt:turnover ratio rules and/or a maximum to interest and finance payments as a percentage of debt would be an excellent rule. The rule on investment should be simple: Directors' and Shareholders' loans have to be repaid within a time limit or turned into equity. To limit equity investment is bizarre. Limit debt and you limit the risk of unfunded investment.

[phips]

Phips,

Throughout the history of football, clubs have risen and fallen. what has happened at Leeds, Portsmouth and almost at Chelsea is nothing new. Over the years there is a long list of clubs who have failed, often (possibly usually) because of financial mismanagement. It is worth noting that had the FFP regs in its current format been in place, it would not have stopped those clubs suffering the same fate.

You may well be right that something should be in place but please note that currently, debt is not considered. Many of those leading elite clubs are in huge debt but that is fine. City on the other hand have no debt, can afford to invest and in all other areas (youth, community etc) are streets ahead of other clubs in abiding by UeFA's principles.

Absolutely right, sustainability rules could have been introduced but they weren't! Some good rules could still be put in place if their were a mood to do so. Maximum debt:turnover ratio rules and/or a maximum to interest and finance payments as a percentage of debt would be an excellent rule. The rule on investment should be simple: Directors' and Shareholders' loans have to be repaid within a time limit or turned into equity. To limit equity investment is bizarre. Limit debt and you limit the risk of unfunded investment.

yeah. all I'm saying is that something should be enacted. not how it is now though but also not just the wild wild west.

[john68]

The major problem that any investment or salary cap rules have; is that football is a global game and that must be factor that has to be considered when European clubs/UeFA makes any decision.

At present, the European FFP regulations has no effect on those old order, elite European clubs, who can afford to invest with impunity. A salary cap or any limitation of investment might just allow other World regions into the game to compete in the market. They dare not allow that to happen.

The global attraction of European football is at present at such a high level, that those elite clubs have intention of limiting themselves in the market. They only wish to stop anyone else from their own backyard competing with them.

Having previously killed off the East European clubs and those 2nd tier clubs from poorer leagues in western Europe that historically used to compete, it is only the likes of City who are a danger to them.

Just as an aside, Ted in a post a few days ago alluded to his suspicion that it was the English clubs who were the main driving factors behind this current shit. I am in no doubt that it is the Rags, Arsenal and Liverpool, who are without question our biggest enemies, backed by their friends Bayern, Real and Barca. "Local politics" was a term used by the bosses of Galatasaray and Juventus when considering reasons why a major club could be excluded from the proposed European Super League.

[DoomMerchant]

Phips,

Throughout the history of football, clubs have risen and fallen. what has happened at Leeds, Portsmouth and almost at Chelsea is nothing new. Over the years there is a long list of clubs who have failed, often (possibly usually) because of financial mismanagement. It is worth noting that had the FFP regs in its current format been in place, it would not have stopped those clubs suffering the same fate.

You may well be right that something should be in place but please note that currently, debt is not considered. Many of those leading elite clubs are in huge debt but that is fine. City on the other hand have no debt, can afford to invest and in all other areas (youth, community etc) are streets ahead of other clubs in abiding by UeFA's principles.

Absolutely right, sustainability rules could have been introduced but they weren't! Some good rules could still be put in place if their were a mood to do so. Maximum debt:turnover ratio rules and/or a maximum to interest and finance payments as a percentage of debt would be an excellent rule. The rule on investment should be simple: Directors' and Shareholders' loans have to be repaid within a time limit or turned into equity. To limit equity investment is bizarre. Limit debt and you limit the risk of unfunded investment.

so....that's your story, now?

Interesting.

cheers

[Socrates]

Phips,

Throughout the history of football, clubs have risen and fallen. what has happened at Leeds, Portsmouth and almost at Chelsea is nothing new. Over the years there is a long list of clubs who have failed, often (possibly usually) because of financial mismanagement. It is worth noting that had the FFP regs in its current format been in place, it would not have stopped those clubs suffering the same fate.

You may well be right that something should be in place but please note that currently, debt is not considered. Many of those leading elite clubs are in huge debt but that is fine. City on the other hand have no debt, can afford to invest and in all other areas (youth, community etc) are streets ahead of other clubs in abiding by UeFA's principles.

Absolutely right, sustainability rules could have been introduced but they weren't! Some good rules could still be put in place if their were a mood to do so. Maximum debt:turnover ratio rules and/or a maximum to interest and finance payments as a percentage of debt would be an excellent rule. The rule on investment should be simple: Directors' and Shareholders' loans have to be repaid within a time limit or turned into equity. To limit equity investment is bizarre. Limit debt and you limit the risk of unfunded investment.

so....that's your story, now?

Interesting.

cheers

My story? My position has always been that I'm against FFP both with my City hat on and in terms of general fairness too but realistic that it would impact on us and that the club would have to prepare for that. That goes right back to me arguing that the club couldn't afford to "wait and see" with Leslie and needed to go for a proven coach quickly and spend money faster than desirable early on and more carefully later. My position has never changed.
I hope it gets chucked out or at least modified, meantime it HAS impacted on us in many ways and anyone who thinks it hasn't is wearing blinkers.

[Piccsnumberoneblue]

Oh how about a rule whereby the gate receipts are shared between two participating clubs and perhaps a rule whereby television money is shared equally? That would surely help all we clubs stay in business and perhaps be competitive and ambitious.
Oh yeah, it uses to be like that before those 'concerned' clubs like filth, arse and Liverpool threatened to form a breakaway league if it wasn't ended. Never ever believe for one second they give a shit about the likes of Pompey

[sidSmith]

The thing that makes me sick is that as far as the global (predominantly football uneducated) audience is concerned, both City and PSG are seen as cheats because of this bullshit. Yet the scum are able to break the British transfer record and nobody bats an eye.

[Original Dub]

You listened to that entire interview and all you took from it was "so we don't have another portsmouth"??

Excellent yet again.

[DoomMerchant]

Phips,

Throughout the history of football, clubs have risen and fallen. what has happened at Leeds, Portsmouth and almost at Chelsea is nothing new. Over the years there is a long list of clubs who have failed, often (possibly usually) because of financial mismanagement. It is worth noting that had the FFP regs in its current format been in place, it would not have stopped those clubs suffering the same fate.

You may well be right that something should be in place but please note that currently, debt is not considered. Many of those leading elite clubs are in huge debt but that is fine. City on the other hand have no debt, can afford to invest and in all other areas (youth, community etc) are streets ahead of other clubs in abiding by UeFA's principles.

Absolutely right, sustainability rules could have been introduced but they weren't! Some good rules could still be put in place if their were a mood to do so. Maximum debt:turnover ratio rules and/or a maximum to interest and finance payments as a percentage of debt would be an excellent rule. The rule on investment should be simple: Directors' and Shareholders' loans have to be repaid within a time limit or turned into equity. To limit equity investment is bizarre. Limit debt and you limit the risk of unfunded investment.

so....that's your story, now?

Interesting.

cheers

My story? My position has always been that I'm against FFP both with my City hat on and in terms of general fairness too but realistic that it would impact on us and that the club would have to prepare for that. That goes right back to me arguing that the club couldn't afford to "wait and see" with Leslie and needed to go for a proven coach quickly and spend money faster than desirable early on and more carefully later. My position has never changed.
I hope it gets chucked out or at least modified, meantime it HAS impacted on us in many ways and anyone who thinks it hasn't is wearing blinkers.

[Nigels Tackle]

men sailed across the atlantic using less material than that....