Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Ted Hughes » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:15 pm

Dameerto wrote:What I KNOW is that we're in a phase of expansion to take us into the 60's. Not 70's. What I HOPE is that when we are fully compliant with all regulations and any amendments they throw at us to try and catch us out there might be some downward movement in pricing. Thank the 'Sky four' for the English FFP and the cartel for the European one.


To be pedantic, we're actually into a phase of expansion to take us into the 50's not the 60's.

But there is planning permission in place for us to expand that to 60k+, if the demand is there. Then if we get greater demand, we will go through the same process we have just done, with the sides, ending up with 70k+.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Bridge'srightfoot » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:18 pm

Dameerto wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:Wtf are you talking about? Because there has been no sign from clubs in the Pl or even from ourselves that bigger stadiums lead to lower prices. If anything they go up. If bayern can offer £150 quid for a season ticket, so can we and there's no excuse for premier league teams including ourselves pricing the average fan out of a game.


'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.

You argued bayern could offer cheap tickets because of a bigger stadium, So why can't we offer cheaper tickets than teams with smaller stadiums than us if your 'economies' of scale argument is correct ?
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:23 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:
Dameerto wrote:What I KNOW is that we're in a phase of expansion to take us into the 60's. Not 70's. What I HOPE is that when we are fully compliant with all regulations and any amendments they throw at us to try and catch us out there might be some downward movement in pricing. Thank the 'Sky four' for the English FFP and the cartel for the European one.


To be pedantic, we're actually into a phase of expansion to take us into the 50's not the 60's.

But there is planning permission in place for us to expand that to 60k+, if the demand is there. Then if we get greater demand, we will go through the same process we have just done, with the sides, ending up with 70k+.

Not to be pedantic mate but we will be going to 60+ (62) regardless. The optimum would be to equal or exceed the biggest in the UK/Europe in time but I'd suggest that might be an entire new build.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Ted Hughes » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:28 pm

Beefymcfc wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:
Dameerto wrote:What I KNOW is that we're in a phase of expansion to take us into the 60's. Not 70's. What I HOPE is that when we are fully compliant with all regulations and any amendments they throw at us to try and catch us out there might be some downward movement in pricing. Thank the 'Sky four' for the English FFP and the cartel for the European one.


To be pedantic, we're actually into a phase of expansion to take us into the 50's not the 60's.

But there is planning permission in place for us to expand that to 60k+, if the demand is there. Then if we get greater demand, we will go through the same process we have just done, with the sides, ending up with 70k+.

Not to be pedantic mate but we will be going to 60+ (62) regardless. The optimum would be to equal or exceed the biggest in the UK/Europe in time but I'd suggest that might be an entire new build.


Not if there's no demand we won't, & it won't be a new build to go to 70k+ it will be enlarging the sides.
Last edited by Ted Hughes on Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Dameerto » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:28 pm

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
Dameerto wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:Wtf are you talking about? Because there has been no sign from clubs in the Pl or even from ourselves that bigger stadiums lead to lower prices. If anything they go up. If bayern can offer £150 quid for a season ticket, so can we and there's no excuse for premier league teams including ourselves pricing the average fan out of a game.


'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.

You argued bayern could offer cheap tickets because of a bigger stadium, So why can't we offer cheaper tickets than teams with smaller stadiums than us if your 'economies' of scale argument is correct ?



I've got no intention engaging with you in your attempt to dilute the argument. Fuck you a third time. I edited my post while you were thinking up your latest utterance, it is as follows:

'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.
£300 lowest priced season ticket? (which had it's price frozen). We're limited to token gestures because we're still in the red according to UEFA, and we're clawing every penny from every source we can to try and comply with their amended regulations. I fully expect to see our commercial interests increasing season by season which will help, it might even reach a point where it takes the pressure off from our matchday income sufficiently for us to reward season ticket holders for their loyalty. I see our owner as someone who wants a business that is self financing, rather than a source of increasing his personal wealth. which leaves me open minded to the possibility of lower prices in the future. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying it is possible.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby LookMumImOnMCF.net » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:30 pm

Nah, the appetite for handbag bitching looks stronger than ever.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Dameerto » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:32 pm

Try a different thread then, Shirley.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Ted Hughes » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:32 pm

Dameerto wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
Dameerto wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:Wtf are you talking about? Because there has been no sign from clubs in the Pl or even from ourselves that bigger stadiums lead to lower prices. If anything they go up. If bayern can offer £150 quid for a season ticket, so can we and there's no excuse for premier league teams including ourselves pricing the average fan out of a game.


'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.

You argued bayern could offer cheap tickets because of a bigger stadium, So why can't we offer cheaper tickets than teams with smaller stadiums than us if your 'economies' of scale argument is correct ?



I've got no intention engaging with you in your attempt to dilute the argument. Fuck you a third time. I edited my post while you were thinking up your latest utterance, it is as follows:

'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.
£300 lowest priced season ticket? (which had it's price frozen). We're limited to token gestures because we're still in the red according to UEFA, and we're clawing every penny from every source we can to try and comply with their amended regulations. I fully expect to see our commercial interests increasing season by season which will help, it might even reach a point where it takes the pressure off from our matchday income sufficiently for us to reward season ticket holders for their loyalty. I see our owner as someone who wants a business that is self financing, rather than a source of increasing his personal wealth. which leaves me open minded to the possibility of lower prices in the future. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying it is possible.


I think that's how we'd have to do it; have a lot of the 'new' seats available cheaper, then freeze most of the other prices, whilst creating some super corporate bollocks areas, then try to keep prices down whilst Bayern etc caught us up, so we end up being similar to them, but much cheaper than everyone else here.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Hutch's Shoulder » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:36 pm

I have checked the pie sales, and the Jamie Oliver dishes have not affected our appetites on average at all.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:07 pm

Ted Hughes wrote:
Beefymcfc wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:
Dameerto wrote:What I KNOW is that we're in a phase of expansion to take us into the 60's. Not 70's. What I HOPE is that when we are fully compliant with all regulations and any amendments they throw at us to try and catch us out there might be some downward movement in pricing. Thank the 'Sky four' for the English FFP and the cartel for the European one.


To be pedantic, we're actually into a phase of expansion to take us into the 50's not the 60's.

But there is planning permission in place for us to expand that to 60k+, if the demand is there. Then if we get greater demand, we will go through the same process we have just done, with the sides, ending up with 70k+.

Not to be pedantic mate but we will be going to 60+ (62) regardless. The optimum would be to equal or exceed the biggest in the UK/Europe in time but I'd suggest that might be an entire new build.


Not if there's no demand we won't, & it won't be a new build to go to 70k+ it will be enlarging the sides.

Well, you learn something everyday ;-)
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Bridge'srightfoot » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:11 pm

Dameerto wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
Dameerto wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:Wtf are you talking about? Because there has been no sign from clubs in the Pl or even from ourselves that bigger stadiums lead to lower prices. If anything they go up. If bayern can offer £150 quid for a season ticket, so can we and there's no excuse for premier league teams including ourselves pricing the average fan out of a game.


'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.

You argued bayern could offer cheap tickets because of a bigger stadium, So why can't we offer cheaper tickets than teams with smaller stadiums than us if your 'economies' of scale argument is correct ?



I've got no intention engaging with you in your attempt to dilute the argument. Fuck you a third time. I edited my post while you were thinking up your latest utterance, it is as follows:

'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.
£300 lowest priced season ticket? (which had it's price frozen). We're limited to token gestures because we're still in the red according to UEFA, and we're clawing every penny from every source we can to try and comply with their amended regulations. I fully expect to see our commercial interests increasing season by season which will help, it might even reach a point where it takes the pressure off from our matchday income sufficiently for us to reward season ticket holders for their loyalty. I see our owner as someone who wants a business that is self financing, rather than a source of increasing his personal wealth. which leaves me open minded to the possibility of lower prices in the future. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying it is possible.

...Which has absolutely nothing to do with Bayern having a bigger stadium which is what your original point was. You didn't say 'because Bayern have far less debt' you said because they had a greater capacity.
Someone on here showed figures that charging the average fan say 200 quid less per season ticket, would only cost the club about 45k a week or for perspective, what we probably pay Dedryk Boyata.
A miniscule amount for the club, a huge amount for the fans.

Several on here have pointed it out, Premier league clubs are taking the piss with pricing and real football fans are being priced out and we'll end up with a stadium full of prawn sarnie munching plastics like across the road if we're not careful.

I live too far away for a season ticket to be worthwhile anymore but I'm being priced out from attending even the occasional game.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Beefymcfc » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:27 pm

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
Dameerto wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
Dameerto wrote:
Bridge'srightfoot wrote:Wtf are you talking about? Because there has been no sign from clubs in the Pl or even from ourselves that bigger stadiums lead to lower prices. If anything they go up. If bayern can offer £150 quid for a season ticket, so can we and there's no excuse for premier league teams including ourselves pricing the average fan out of a game.


'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.

You argued bayern could offer cheap tickets because of a bigger stadium, So why can't we offer cheaper tickets than teams with smaller stadiums than us if your 'economies' of scale argument is correct ?



I've got no intention engaging with you in your attempt to dilute the argument. Fuck you a third time. I edited my post while you were thinking up your latest utterance, it is as follows:

'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.
£300 lowest priced season ticket? (which had it's price frozen). We're limited to token gestures because we're still in the red according to UEFA, and we're clawing every penny from every source we can to try and comply with their amended regulations. I fully expect to see our commercial interests increasing season by season which will help, it might even reach a point where it takes the pressure off from our matchday income sufficiently for us to reward season ticket holders for their loyalty. I see our owner as someone who wants a business that is self financing, rather than a source of increasing his personal wealth. which leaves me open minded to the possibility of lower prices in the future. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying it is possible.

...Which has absolutely nothing to do with Bayern having a bigger stadium which is what your original point was. You didn't say 'because Bayern have far less debt' you said because they had a greater capacity.
Someone on here showed figures that charging the average fan say 200 quid less per season ticket, would only cost the club about 45k a week or for perspective, what we probably pay Dedryk Boyata.
A miniscule amount for the club, a huge amount for the fans.

Several on here have pointed it out, Premier league clubs are taking the piss with pricing and real football fans are being priced out and we'll end up with a stadium full of prawn sarnie munching plastics like across the road if we're not careful.

I live too far away for a season ticket to be worthwhile anymore but I'm being priced out from attending even the occasional game.

Not arguing with the pricing issue but I'd debate that the likes of Bayern have ST prices so low because of their sponsors. They are no saviours of the game mate and to ensure the fans keep turning up (trust me, German football fans are quite different to ours when money is discussed) they ensure the prices are low and get their money from sponsors instead - the fans would be having strikes if they seen a huge% hike.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Dameerto » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:19 am

Bridge'srightfoot wrote:
Dameerto wrote:
I've got no intention engaging with you in your attempt to dilute the argument. Fuck you a third time. I edited my post while you were thinking up your latest utterance, it is as follows:

'WTF' I'm talking about is economies of scale. Fuck you. Twice.
£300 lowest priced season ticket? (which had it's price frozen). We're limited to token gestures because we're still in the red according to UEFA, and we're clawing every penny from every source we can to try and comply with their amended regulations. I fully expect to see our commercial interests increasing season by season which will help, it might even reach a point where it takes the pressure off from our matchday income sufficiently for us to reward season ticket holders for their loyalty. I see our owner as someone who wants a business that is self financing, rather than a source of increasing his personal wealth. which leaves me open minded to the possibility of lower prices in the future. I'm not saying it WILL happen, I'm saying it is possible.

...Which has absolutely nothing to do with Bayern having a bigger stadium which is what your original point was. You didn't say 'because Bayern have far less debt' you said because they had a greater capacity.
Someone on here showed figures that charging the average fan say 200 quid less per season ticket, would only cost the club about 45k a week or for perspective, what we probably pay Dedryk Boyata.
A miniscule amount for the club, a huge amount for the fans.

Several on here have pointed it out, Premier league clubs are taking the piss with pricing and real football fans are being priced out and we'll end up with a stadium full of prawn sarnie munching plastics like across the road if we're not careful.

I live too far away for a season ticket to be worthwhile anymore but I'm being priced out from attending even the occasional game.


My fault for assuming you knew what economies of scale was (which entirely answered your question but which you entirely ignored, or disputed) - the ability to reduce the price it costs you to supply a service to one customer (or in this case fan) by significantly increasing the total number of customers you supply it to - if you want to dispute economies of scale you will have to take it up with someone who gives a shit though. The rest was illustrating how it would be possible for the club to reach a point where they could freeze prices for several seasons in a row. I am beginning to suspect you are on a windup for whatever reason so I will leave you to your world where you believe our owner is only out to shaft the fans.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Dameerto » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:38 am

Beefymcfc wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:
Dameerto wrote:What I KNOW is that we're in a phase of expansion to take us into the 60's. Not 70's. What I HOPE is that when we are fully compliant with all regulations and any amendments they throw at us to try and catch us out there might be some downward movement in pricing. Thank the 'Sky four' for the English FFP and the cartel for the European one.


To be pedantic, we're actually into a phase of expansion to take us into the 50's not the 60's.

But there is planning permission in place for us to expand that to 60k+, if the demand is there. Then if we get greater demand, we will go through the same process we have just done, with the sides, ending up with 70k+.

Not to be pedantic mate but we will be going to 60+ (62) regardless. The optimum would be to equal or exceed the biggest in the UK/Europe in time but I'd suggest that might be an entire new build.


I think the third phase (which we already have planning permission for) is inevitable, which will take us to 61k-ish. I assume they will monitor how the first two phases are received before deciding on a time scale for the third.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Hazy2 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:41 am

Back in the day even with the Kippax fucking ruined, the Main stand was most expensive seat, Platt Lane was the Cheapest, Gene Kelly to be precise. The pricing is fucked up, Burnley 28/12 £47 look at Leeds, similar club to us £34.00 for a home game to Boro.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Im_Spartacus » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:04 am

lovecity8utd wrote:"If bayern can offer season tickets for 150 quid, there's no reason we can't."

There is a reason and it's called FFP. I'm sure tickets would be much more affordable if it wasnt for this.


That's not strictly true though, Matchday revenue from the ordinary fan is a very minor part of a modern club's income. Adding an extra tenner on 15,000 matchday tickets for 19 games a season brings in £150,000 a game, less than £3m a year. I dare say they will lose a good chunk of that through reduced spending at food & drink concessions in the ground.

Or in perspective, the increase of a tenner a ticket is less than 1% of our turnover, and as we can see from this thread, damages the brand substantially in terms of supporters' good will.

In my eyes, it's pretty indefensible to charge this much, and suggests the club are actively looking for daytrippers to fill the seats, not normal fans
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:10 am

Hazy2 wrote:Back in the day even with the Kippax fucking ruined, the Main stand was most expensive seat, Platt Lane was the Cheapest, Gene Kelly to be precise. The pricing is fucked up, Burnley 28/12 £47 look at Leeds, similar club to us £34.00 for a home game to Boro.


I suppose the argument would be; 'ahh but look at the quality of football you are getting for your money' You could argue that it's cheap to watch City when Leeds costs £34 quid.

But that assumes City fans can actually afford to pay £13 quid more than Leeds fans. In reality many can't, but do anyway because they love/are addicted to City.

Then we go back to the comparison between football here & Bayern Munich. If they can do it like that, so can the top clubs here. It's a matter of whether any of them want to, or whether they all prefer to squeeze every last penny out of their 'customers' that they can.

I would say that almost every other club's owners are actually in the business purely to squeeze out evey penny they can (that's why they voted for ffp) but our owner certainly appears to be different. He doesn't run that side of the club though, others do & it would need a policy statement to make them work towards a more affordable ticket price. Effectively they have to sacrifice some of their profit, however you look at it.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:17 am

Im_Spartacus wrote:
lovecity8utd wrote:"If bayern can offer season tickets for 150 quid, there's no reason we can't."

There is a reason and it's called FFP. I'm sure tickets would be much more affordable if it wasnt for this.


That's not strictly true though, Matchday revenue from the ordinary fan is a very minor part of a modern club's income. Adding an extra tenner on 15,000 matchday tickets for 19 games a season brings in £150,000 a game, less than £3m a year. I dare say they will lose a good chunk of that through reduced spending at food & drink concessions in the ground.

Or in perspective, the increase of a tenner a ticket is less than 1% of our turnover, and as we can see from this thread, damages the brand substantially in terms of supporters' good will.

In my eyes, it's pretty indefensible to charge this much, and suggests the club are actively looking for daytrippers to fill the seats, not normal fans


Well we'll have to see what happens in the next couple of years.

Going the other way, I think I reconed that to bring us in line with Bayern, in a big stadium, would be the equivalent of a Gavi Garcia size transfer fee per season. We would need to find an extra, fairly sizeable sponsor, to do it without losing money compared to what we could make charging top prices.

I think the likelihood will fall somewhere between; cheaper seats in the 'gods' much more expensive everywhere else.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Goaters 103 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:44 am

Ted Hughes wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:
lovecity8utd wrote:"If bayern can offer season tickets for 150 quid, there's no reason we can't."

There is a reason and it's called FFP. I'm sure tickets would be much more affordable if it wasnt for this.


That's not strictly true though, Matchday revenue from the ordinary fan is a very minor part of a modern club's income. Adding an extra tenner on 15,000 matchday tickets for 19 games a season brings in £150,000 a game, less than £3m a year. I dare say they will lose a good chunk of that through reduced spending at food & drink concessions in the ground.

Or in perspective, the increase of a tenner a ticket is less than 1% of our turnover, and as we can see from this thread, damages the brand substantially in terms of supporters' good will.

In my eyes, it's pretty indefensible to charge this much, and suggests the club are actively looking for daytrippers to fill the seats, not normal fans




I think the likelihood will fall somewhere between; cheaper seats in the 'gods' much more expensive everywhere else.


This is exactly what I see happening Ted.

The third tiers behind the goals are where most of the real fans are likely to be, the way the process are going. Though these are trumpeted at being £299 season tickets, when you look closer this price refers only to the wing blocks and not the centre ones.

I sit in the Family Stand 2nd tier, with 2 kids tickets as well - we have 4 kids who all want to go but costs dictate I take them on a rotational basis. However my wife and I, thankfully shes a big blue as well, are already dreading further cost rises - especially the way the 2nd tier is being priced in the East and West stands - as it will likely mean a move to the third tier and further upwards for us until Im too old and then the kids can take me. However the other fear is that if prcies keep rising as they are, we will simply be priced out within the next 5 years and will sadly have to move aside for the aforementioned day trippers.

Having had a season ticket since 1977 this will be rather galling but theres little I can do about it, bar a lottery win.
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Re: Is the Fans Appetite Dwindling?

Postby Ted Hughes » Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:57 am

Goaters 103 wrote:
Ted Hughes wrote:
Im_Spartacus wrote:
lovecity8utd wrote:"If bayern can offer season tickets for 150 quid, there's no reason we can't."

There is a reason and it's called FFP. I'm sure tickets would be much more affordable if it wasnt for this.


That's not strictly true though, Matchday revenue from the ordinary fan is a very minor part of a modern club's income. Adding an extra tenner on 15,000 matchday tickets for 19 games a season brings in £150,000 a game, less than £3m a year. I dare say they will lose a good chunk of that through reduced spending at food & drink concessions in the ground.

Or in perspective, the increase of a tenner a ticket is less than 1% of our turnover, and as we can see from this thread, damages the brand substantially in terms of supporters' good will.

In my eyes, it's pretty indefensible to charge this much, and suggests the club are actively looking for daytrippers to fill the seats, not normal fans




I think the likelihood will fall somewhere between; cheaper seats in the 'gods' much more expensive everywhere else.


This is exactly what I see happening Ted.

The third tiers behind the goals are where most of the real fans are likely to be, the way the process are going. Though these are trumpeted at being £299 season tickets, when you look closer this price refers only to the wing blocks and not the centre ones.

I sit in the Family Stand 2nd tier, with 2 kids tickets as well - we have 4 kids who all want to go but costs dictate I take them on a rotational basis. However my wife and I, thankfully shes a big blue as well, are already dreading further cost rises - especially the way the 2nd tier is being priced in the East and West stands - as it will likely mean a move to the third tier and further upwards for us until Im too old and then the kids can take me. However the other fear is that if prcies keep rising as they are, we will simply be priced out within the next 5 years and will sadly have to move aside for the aforementioned day trippers.

Having had a season ticket since 1977 this will be rather galling but theres little I can do about it, bar a lottery win.


It's not impossible that, if there is a demand for season tickets for the proposed North Stand expansion & it does eventually happen,, they may choose that time to try & restructure the pricing around the ground, perhaps making more corporate/tourist areas in the side/ central sections then dropping prices at the ends, to encourage people to move there.

I haven't decided how much more of an increase I will wear, but it's already costing more than I consider value. It's just addiction keeping me going now.
The pissartist formerly known as Ted

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