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Great thread beefs!

lets all have a disco wrote:Joleon isnt fast and IMHO him and Vinny were one of our best partnerships,Vinny would cover Hummels lack of real pace.

If you're intelligent you can read the game.

Lescott got done for pace about twice per season, Hummels 4 times per game. Look back on this forum a year or so, Hummels was dogshit & everyone wanted Subotic, then realised he was crap as well & now Hummels is back in vogue. It's bullshit.

He was completely outshone by Jerome fucking Boateng two weeks ago. Boateng is shit.

A decent side can carry Hummels just like we carry Nastasic. Same with Boateng & the other two stiffs at Bayen, Piquet etc at Barca; the rags won the league with Ferdinand & Johnny Evans.

The point is, do we want to carry some slow, shit cunt just because he looks good on the ball & scores a few headers, or do we want to go up a level from where we are.

There is no point in ditching Lescott & signing someone two yards slower.

To be fair, Lescott had to be ditched. He'd turned shit over the course of the off season and that back-header put him in a position that could've changed every Blues lives.

You do make me laugh Ted, Hummels is just a shit Joleon Lescott. Pity really, I thought Lescott was class.

Slow, shit-cunt? I smiled.

lets all have a disco wrote:Joleon isnt fast and IMHO him and Vinny were one of our best partnerships,Vinny would cover Hummels lack of real pace.

If you're intelligent you can read the game.

yes, but that didn't seem to help demi much getting burned by pacey teams like liverpool.

mangala looks like he can become a real beast from what i've seen. albeit it has not been that much, but tixi has done well thus far with slightly under the radar talent, like fernandinho and negredo, rather than bigger name players we are more familiar with, and i'll rest my faith in that.

we've been after him through two windows.

also, it's a nice thought that we could get hummels, but is that even realistic without making other compromises? maybe it would be for a price that is far too high and there other variables we are not considering. i also happen to think we may like mangala's physicality for the premier league compared to hummels.

also, leaving porto for us is one thing, but dortmund has a bigger reputation. you would think he'd have to command even bigger wages, and they'd be more pressured to get even more than the £32m we are rumoured to have offered for mangala.

i don't think dortmund are selling him unless it's closer to £40m, which we have to keep in mind is an even bigger issue with ffp and our lack of revenue from things like merchandizing compared to clubs like united (as unfair as i think that is).

I've gone for Managala, as he doesn't look like he's running in treacle all the time.

Still seems very clear.

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:I've gone for Managala, as he doesn't look like he's running in treacle all the time.

Spot on.

Hummels is obviously superior player to Mangala but people need to forget those 16m rumours.

Klopp has apparently called it a "bullshit story" in a presser - hummells isnt for sale

I cry for Benatia really ... Think that was best solution hope Mangala will prove me wrong.

Beefymcfc wrote:Also, how many of us have actually watched Mangala on a regular basis, who can really judge on his attributes apart from watching Youtube or reading Wiki?

I'll openly admit that I'd never really heard of him until he was linked with us last year.

I certainly haven't seen him play, and given the fact that he was overlooked in favour of 3 average to good centre halves for France, it doesn't fill me for confidence that he is ready (yet).

I like Hummels in that he seems to get himself into good positions so doesn't loo particularly flustered plus he chips in with the odd goal.

I can only plump for hummels on the basis that he is the only one of the two that I've seen play, and as much as he has his flaws in pace, he just led the defence of the world champions.

Wooders wrote:Klopp has apparently called it a "bullshit story" in a presser - hummells isnt for sale

Of course he is for sale, but not at that price.

Beefymcfc wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:I don't disagree with the point made about reading the game or that Hummels is an top class defender but just feel having watched both that Mangala would be a better fit for us.

Can I ask Beefy, have you seen much of Mangala?

No, not much at all mate, as mentioned above. I have no issues with Mangala and from his photo he looks like a thoroughly likeable chap but when it comes down to it many on here have always put experience and class over talent.

Mangala looks a decent talent and looks like he has a better chance than most to make it at the top level but if I had a choice of one of the best CBs in the world partnering Vinnie or one of the possible best CBs in the world then I know who I'd choose.

I also believe that Hummels would make an excellent foil for Vinnie who likes to get forward when needed, covering that area and backing up his CB partner no end.

As I said, it's hypothetical as I think the Rag link is tenuous at best, it's just the thought that Manny would be seen as a better option over a player of Hummels ability.

Mangala must have shown real class to those who regularly watch him, that's all I can say.

This is inherently wrong though. For Dortmund & Germany Hummels is the one getting forward, passing/chipping the ball around, covered by Subotic & Boateng respectively.

Imagine Hummels covering a huge amount of space with the likes of Walcott, Hazard, Sterling or Barkley running into it.

Great positioning, great in the tackle, great in the air, very good on the ball, slow as fuck. Fact.

Can't say much about Mangala, so will refrain from voting.

Beefymcfc wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:I don't disagree with the point made about reading the game or that Hummels is an top class defender but just feel having watched both that Mangala would be a better fit for us.

Can I ask Beefy, have you seen much of Mangala?

No, not much at all mate, as mentioned above. I have no issues with Mangala and from his photo he looks like a thoroughly likeable chap but when it comes down to it many on here have always put experience and class over talent.

Mangala looks a decent talent and looks like he has a better chance than most to make it at the top level but if I had a choice of one of the best CBs in the world partnering Vinnie or one of the possible best CBs in the world then I know who I'd choose.

I also believe that Hummels would make an excellent foil for Vinnie who likes to get forward when needed, covering that area and backing up his CB partner no end.

As I said, it's hypothetical as I think the Rag link is tenuous at best, it's just the thought that Manny would be seen as a better option over a player of Hummels ability.

Mangala must have shown real class to those who regularly watch him, that's all I can say.

This is where the debate falls down for me Beefy, you're calling for objectivity, but how can you be objective if you haven't seen one of the two players who's merits for our squad/team are being debated?

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:I don't disagree with the point made about reading the game or that Hummels is an top class defender but just feel having watched both that Mangala would be a better fit for us.

Can I ask Beefy, have you seen much of Mangala?

No, not much at all mate, as mentioned above. I have no issues with Mangala and from his photo he looks like a thoroughly likeable chap but when it comes down to it many on here have always put experience and class over talent.

Mangala looks a decent talent and looks like he has a better chance than most to make it at the top level but if I had a choice of one of the best CBs in the world partnering Vinnie or one of the possible best CBs in the world then I know who I'd choose.

I also believe that Hummels would make an excellent foil for Vinnie who likes to get forward when needed, covering that area and backing up his CB partner no end.

As I said, it's hypothetical as I think the Rag link is tenuous at best, it's just the thought that Manny would be seen as a better option over a player of Hummels ability.

Mangala must have shown real class to those who regularly watch him, that's all I can say.

This is where the debate falls down for me Beefy, you're calling for objectivity, but how can you be objective if you haven't seen one of the two players who's merits for our squad/team are being debated?

Objective or subjective, the debate is being had. There have been many replies and I'm guessing that most have not seen Manny play on a regular basis but still have an opinion on the matter.

The whole debate seems to revolve around Hummels pace yet we've been playing, and winning (cups and leagues), with 2/3 players who don't have any real pace whatsoever.

Put it one way, I'd prefer Hummels not going to the Rags as I think he's the perfect CB for them and would marshall them back to the top 4 without a doubt.

Beefymcfc wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:I don't disagree with the point made about reading the game or that Hummels is an top class defender but just feel having watched both that Mangala would be a better fit for us.

Can I ask Beefy, have you seen much of Mangala?

No, not much at all mate, as mentioned above. I have no issues with Mangala and from his photo he looks like a thoroughly likeable chap but when it comes down to it many on here have always put experience and class over talent.

Mangala looks a decent talent and looks like he has a better chance than most to make it at the top level but if I had a choice of one of the best CBs in the world partnering Vinnie or one of the possible best CBs in the world then I know who I'd choose.

I also believe that Hummels would make an excellent foil for Vinnie who likes to get forward when needed, covering that area and backing up his CB partner no end.

As I said, it's hypothetical as I think the Rag link is tenuous at best, it's just the thought that Manny would be seen as a better option over a player of Hummels ability.

Mangala must have shown real class to those who regularly watch him, that's all I can say.

This is where the debate falls down for me Beefy, you're calling for objectivity, but how can you be objective if you haven't seen one of the two players who's merits for our squad/team are being debated?

Objective or subjective, the debate is being had. There have been many replies and I'm guessing that most have not seen Manny play on a regular basis but still have an opinion on the matter.

The whole debate seems to revolve around Hummels pace yet we've been playing, and winning (cups and leagues), with 2/3 players who don't have any real pace whatsoever.

Put it one way, I'd prefer Hummels not going to the Rags as I think he's the perfect CB for them and would marshall them back to the top 4 without a doubt.

I won't argue with that last paragraph, he'd be ideal for the way Van Ghoul sets up defensively.

Beefymcfc wrote:To be fair, Lescott had to be ditched. He'd turned shit over the course of the off season and that back-header put him in a position that could've changed every Blues lives.

You do make me laugh Ted, Hummels is just a shit Joleon Lescott. Pity really, I thought Lescott was class.

Slow, shit-cunt? I smiled.

Yes another fucking over rated slow cb like Piquet Vertonghen & most of the other wankers who keep being touted as good signings for City. If we sign any of these cunts, it's because we can't get anyone who is any good, not because they are what we need.
Reading the comments on here, I don't know what game some of you are watching. Even the fucking WORLD CUP FINAL dispayed the problems Hummels has.

Did none of you fucking watch it ??? The biggest danger to Germany was people just kicking the ball past
Hummels and legging it. Why some of you lot didn't fucking see that is beyond me, but some did, & they are the ones who are talking sense when they talk about Hummels & City. Sign him= change the whole plan of play for the forseeable future.

And once again Lescott, one of the best defenders ever to play for City, gets disrespected. Very few people legged it past Lescott & when they did, it would only be very quick players & only happen once in game. If he had EVER had a game for City like Hummels did for Germany, he would have got fucking dogs abuse on here.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Beefymcfc wrote:To be fair, Lescott had to be ditched. He'd turned shit over the course of the off season and that back-header put him in a position that could've changed every Blues lives.

You do make me laugh Ted, Hummels is just a shit Joleon Lescott. Pity really, I thought Lescott was class.

Slow, shit-cunt? I smiled.

Yes another fucking over rated slow cb like Piquet Vertonghen & most of the other wankers who keep being touted as good signings for City. If we sign any of these cunts, it's because we can't get anyone who is any good, not because they are what we need.
Reading the comments on here, I don't know what game some of you are watching. Even the fucking WORLD CUP FINAL dispayed the problems Hummels has.

Did none of you fucking watch it ??? The biggest danger to Germany was people just kicking the ball past
Hummels and legging it. Why some of you lot didn't fucking see that is beyond me, but some did, & they are the ones who are talking sense when they talk about Hummels & City. Sign him= change the whole plan of play for the forseeable future.

And once again Lescott, one of the best defenders ever to play for City, gets disrespected. Very few people legged it past Lescott & when they did, it would only be very quick players & only happen once in game. If he had EVER had a game for City like Hummels did for Germany, he would have got fucking dogs abuse on here.

I don't know if you noticed Ted but Lescott did get 'Dogs Abuse' on here, and many other places mate. The thing about getting to a WC final is that you are playing the best players in the world and as always, you'll get done by a few of them. The fact that he was a significant part in that team says it all.

What's interested me more about this thread than the actual poll is the reaction, as if we should not be even discussing it. Then there's the inference that defenders should never make a mistake, ever. The fact that Germany won the thing obviously had nothing to do with Hummels.

PS. I think Lescott is great and would not disrespect him in any way. Yes he cocked-up and gave away the odd goal but when he was 'top of the league' I thought he was a better player than Vinnie. Still, I can look at this one objectively and see where the club wanted to go, and it wasn't 'Forward with Joleon'.

PPS. Hummels is still a very good player, I can't believe people are saying anything otherwise.

This whole thread was based on a false premise that Hummels was available and at 16 million. Therefore Txiki is a complete idiot at not snapping him up. Absolute bollocks from the Press. If the scum want him they'll have to pay a huge sum out so the argument that Mangala is poor value is utter rubbish. Txiki and co know far more about Mangala than anyone on this forum why can't people have a bit of faith in them?

blues2win wrote:This whole thread was based on a false premise that Hummels was available and at 16 million. Therefore Txiki is a complete idiot at not snapping him up. Absolute bollocks from the Press. If the scum want him they'll have to pay a huge sum out so the argument that Mangala is poor value is utter rubbish. Txiki and co know far more about Mangala than anyone on this forum why can't people have a bit of faith in them?

Who isn't showing faith in them. It's a simple question of which one would you rather have if they were both available. Money doesn't come into it - other than Mangala seeming to be overpriced - but then again so was Camelgob, and 12 seasons service for £30m is really not a bad deal looking back