FOOTBALL POLITICS....and City

[john68]

Though I haven't posted much for a while, I have continued my digging round in the murkier depths (heights?) of what has been going on at the top end of our global game....The digging continues...

We (should) all know the past; how, in the 1980s 14 major clubs in Europe got together to further their own self interests at the expense of all others. How in 2000, they formally founded the G14, which in 2002 expanded to 18 clubs. How they pressurised UeFA into changing the playing and financial structures of UeFA's competitions ensuring that "they gained control of finances and TV revenue, chose their opponents, then ring fenced it all to keep the money in and everyone else out." (If anyone doesn't know that stuff, ask and I will happily go into detail if necessary).

Something that does not seem common knowledge, is that despite the common perception, (mine also til recently) was that neither FiFA nor UeFA have any legal right to regulate any aspect of football, other than their own competitions.. Any rights they had, or thought they had was challenged by the G14 in 2005/6 when the G14 co-signed with Charleroi in their case for international injury compensation.

While we are having a quiet chuckle to ourselves about the current revelations of bribery, corruption and clandestine meetings within FiFA and UeFA, It may be useful to step back and ask; "with all the history of coercion, bribery and corruption, why is it only now and these particular issues that the media have suddenly decided to take an interest?...and why the British media in particular? They have consistently and knowingly ignored all the other stuff for many years.

In 2006, there was a sea change of policy in the G14. It decided it was time for them to strike out and go for bigger targets. It published an internal document "Vision Europe"setting out the future vision for football as they saw it and how it could enhance their self interest even further. Though the G14 was officially disbanded and the ECA set up, it was only a cosmetic change. The real power and control still remained with the somewhat evolved old order. At present, there are 9 clubs driving the charge for more power and control; The rags, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Milan, Inter, Barca and Real Madrid.

The current FiFA/UeFA scandals suit them right down to the ground. Weaken those 2 bodies, create a power vacuum and step right in to fill it.

The current agreement between the ECA and UeFA regarding European competitions ends in 2018. From that point European clubs are free to do whatever they like. The Chairman of Galatasary, alongside Signor Agnelli (Juventus) let the cat out of the bag at the recent "Leaders in Sport" conference by being quite explicit about the setting up of a breakaway Euro Super League, scheduled for 2018. "The top 15/20 European clubs, with the exception of local politics".

I had sight of the full list of the 20 clubs currently and actively discussing this but sadly,I am now unable to find it (but still searching). The one thing I did note was that City were not one of the invited, though much less wealthy and less successful clubs Europewide were there.

[Beefymcfc]

Doesn't surprise me in the least. There can only be so many big dogs and they will have their whipping boys to ensure the status quo remains.

For me the real interest is how they believe this will be a successful league and I do wonder if it's another shot across UEFA's bow to ensure they put teams like us back in their place.

[King Kev]

Brilliant post John, well researched and thought provoking.

Please share any further findings with us.

[Crossie]

I'd hate to be in a European super league, imagine the diving and shocking refereeing every week?

[Wonderwall]

I'd hate to be in a European super league, imagine the diving and shocking refereeing every week?

This is one of the more interesting points for me (Referees). How would this work?
a few sets of referees from each nation and they are not allowed to referee teams from their own country?
Would they have to form a whole new refereeing organisation?
Who chooses them?
Would they be from list of FIFA and UeFA refs?

Cheers for that John, I am interested in what the list of 20 looks like.

[Lev Bronstein]

What does Sky want?

[Ted Hughes]

If 20 clubs were happy to play each other for the next 100 years, then a European Superleague would be fine.

In reality, most of their fans would not want it, & most of the world would not be particularly interested in it. So, they all still need the cooperation of their domestic clubs, all of which want a piece of the action or refuse to play v said clubs domestically, thus losing huge interest worldwide, particularly for the UK clubs.

Now if someone was to come along with a non UEFA European competition which offered huge noney & also filtered some of it down the league, & was based on merit, the domestic clubs may well lap it up & take the whole thing, including the domestic leagues, away from UEFA.

[Cocacolajojo1]

Depressing read John. Wish you could put up links to sources and such though. I'm not doubting you but I'd like to read the stuff myself and form my own opinion. Regardless, keep posting.

[jimtolmie_tache]

Depressing read John. Wish you could put up links to sources and such though. I'm not doubting you but I'd like to read the stuff myself and form my own opinion. Regardless, keep posting.

A quick Google reveals lots of articles from last October... https://www.google.co.uk/#q=european+su ... 18&safe=on

It would be the end of football as far as Im concerned. How many times have Bayern Munich played Real Madrid in the Champions League over the last few seasons? It seems they are always up against each other, and the likes of Tyldesley promote it as the peak of the sport, but this is an example of a fixture I find utterly devoid of interest. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me one jot which of these superclubs prevail... it all feels so utterly soulless and clinical.

Here we are... sixteen matches this century, and with the closeness of the stats, you ought to think 'ooh, that's an exciting rivalry'. But IMO, it isn't. I've probably sat in front of a few of these matches, feigning interest (I used to have a German girlfriend who followed Bayern) but I can't remember anything about any of them other than Ronaldo scored in the one last month.

http://wildstat.com/p/1/ch/all/club1/ES ... n_Muenchen

It's all as relevant to most British fans as a match on the moon. So you could say 'well, British fans could watch the domestic league'. But then that will be the equivalent of watching the pub players of the BDO on BBC2 every January... you know that anyone half good is just after a transfer to a bigger body.

To have this extended over a whole season would be dismal, especially with no relegation... where would the interest be for the 15 or 16 teams not involved in the 'title race' by March?.. playing for a few extra million pounds per place? Leave it out. Even if City were involved I'd soon get bored of it, to be honest.

[Ted Hughes]

Depressing read John. Wish you could put up links to sources and such though. I'm not doubting you but I'd like to read the stuff myself and form my own opinion. Regardless, keep posting.

A quick Google reveals lots of articles from last October... https://www.google.co.uk/#q=european+su ... 18&safe=on

It would be the end of football as far as Im concerned. How many times have Bayern Munich played Real Madrid in the Champions League over the last few seasons? It seems they are always up against each other, and the likes of Tyldesley promote it as the peak of the sport, but this is an example of a fixture I find utterly devoid of interest. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me one jot which of these superclubs prevail... it all feels so utterly soulless and clinical.

Here we are... sixteen matches this century, and with the closeness of the stats, you ought to think 'ooh, that's an exciting rivalry'. But IMO, it isn't. I've probably sat in front of a few of these matches, feigning interest (I used to have a German girlfriend who followed Bayern) but I can't remember anything about any of them other than Ronaldo scored in the one last month.

http://wildstat.com/p/1/ch/all/club1/ES ... n_Muenchen

It's all as relevant to most British fans as a match on the moon. So you could say 'well, British fans could watch the domestic league'. But then that will be the equivalent of watching the pub players of the BDO on BBC2 every January... you know that anyone half good is just after a transfer to a bigger body.

To have this extended over a whole season would be dismal, especially with no relegation... where would the interest be for the 15 or 16 teams not involved in the 'title race' by March?.. playing for a few extra million pounds per place? Leave it out. Even if City were involved I'd soon get bored of it, to be honest.

So would everyone else, everywhere in the world. It would weaken the cartel teams, not strengthen them.

[jimtolmie_tache]

So would everyone else, everywhere in the world. It would weaken the cartel teams, not strengthen them.

I think they would point to the example of tennis. For the last 5 or 6 years, you've had Djokovic, Nadal, Murray and Federer playing each other at the end of tournaments more or less every week, and there is still a healthy audience for it.

The difference being these have been three, potentially four of the greatest players that sport has ever seen. This is emphatically not the greatest era of European football, even though one or two of the individual players could be considered all-time greats. But when the champions of Europe are becoming best known for their set piece routines, I'm thinking the cartel are grossly over-estimating the value of their product and the entertainment level it provides as opposed to other sports.

Mind you, stupid people will just accept everything Clive Tyldesley tells them and change their allegiance to a new European city each week.

[zuricity]

I think they would point to the example of tennis. For the last 5 or 6 years, you've had Djokovic, Nadal, Murray and Federer playing each other at the end of tournaments more or less every week, and there is still a healthy audience for it.

The difference being these have been three, potentially four of the greatest players that sport has ever seen. This is emphatically not the greatest era of European football, even though one or two of the individual players could be considered all-time greats. But when the champions of Europe are becoming best known for their set piece routines, I'm thinking the cartel are grossly over-estimating the value of their product and the entertainment level it provides as opposed to other sports.

Mind you, stupid people will just accept everything Clive Tyldesley tells them and change their allegiance to a new European city each week.

Well, i didn't watch the CL final . Quite simply because it was on a Saturday night.

There are other things to do at that time on a Saturday night. Idiots! should have left it as a wednesday final. Fertig.

[john68]

Thanks, as always, for the kind words and the interest shown in this, appreciated. The above post really only skimmed the tip of the iceberg and I will try and address the several issues raised where I can and to the best of my ability. My research, though over a long time and many hours really only picks up the scraps of what is truly going on. I can guarantee there's far more, that I have little chance finding out.

For any of this to make any sense, you have to understand that NONE of it is about football in any shape, manner or form. It is wholly about finance, income and greed. Roland Smith (the boss of the then rag's parent company) gave the game away a number of years ago, when addressing a high level rag's function at the Midland Hotel in Manchester...."The playing of football is merely coincidental to the business of Manchester United." To fully understand how this makes sense, requires forgetting, for a short time that you are a football fan. Success is NOT winning trophies but maximising earnings and profit.

Beefers,....The fact that FiFA and UeFA are no longer the regulators of football (except their own competitions) opens up a whole new power scenario. The ECA agreement with UeFA to take part in their Euro Comps ended this year and has been extended to 2018. At that point, clubs are free to determine their own futures and form their own competitions.
In 1993, the newly structured CL came into being after a threat to not only form a breakaway league but the threat that should UeFA ban them, the G14 would (in the words of KHR) "Tomorrow, shut the UeFA shop."
Talks of a breakaway league are now well advanced and planned for 2018. It is likely that, as in 1993, UeFA will cave in and succumb to the pressure of losing their top clubs and aquiesce by agreeing to oversee a new European Super League.

That would leave it cosmetically regulated by UeFA but controlled entirely by the powerful clubs. Not dissimilar to the present situation of the CL and Euro Lge, except with only the elite and their invited friends taking part.

Hope that helps mate.

[john68]

Wonderwall.

Should, as is more than likely given their past record, UeFA submit to the wishes of the elite, there would hardly need to be a change in refereeing organisation. Should the League be a breakaway League, chosen refs could simply be employed.

I have had sight of the full list but have travelled to so many corners of the web looking at this stuff, am still unable to find it. I can list 11 definite clubs (the current elite) Rags, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Barcelona, Real Madrid. I also know that Galatasary and Juventus are involved because they spoke publicly about it at the recent "Leaders In Sport"conference.

That leaves 9 and I would suggest that we could include Paris St Germain (also invited to that conference), Borussia Dortmund, Porto, Ajax and maybe even Benfica. If that is correct, it would then leave 4 places...and your guess is as good as mine.

The boss of Galatasary did state The top 15/20 clubs except where local politics came into play. (not an ad verbatum quote).

[Beefymcfc]

That sounds very much them just keeping the Status Quo mate. The same teams, year in/year out, end up in the top 8 unless for some unseen circumstances (ie. David Moyes). They let the odd few through to show that there is competition there but in essence, nothing changes.

As you say, the league is run by money and there is no way that those who have no thought but for themselves will allow teams like us break their cartel. In their eyes they built the CL and it's their money they are taking out.

From when Van Pussy was sent off when Arsenal had a chance to get passed them, it was quite obvious what the score was. That was backed up by the Chelsea v Barca game that saw one of the most corrupt refereeing displays in the modern era. But the referee didn't decide that game, it was already decided way before KO.

Honestly John, I have no interest whatsoever in the CL, it's just a league that we're in. For many it is the pinnacle of the footballing fraternity but for me it's just a trough for the pigs to get stuck into. I'll watch it, course I will, and I'll support our team through thick and thin, but the reality is that the corruption from top to bottom really grips my shit.

[john68]

Lev,
From looking at the reasonably newly formed sports' global networking conferences and events going on (Leaders In Sport/Soccerex etc), I would suggest that Sky are not that big a player in the Global sense.

My reading would be that media and TV rights would be sold off regionally to a number of major broadcasters globally. Similar to the present model of Premier League media/TV rights. Each separate company competitively tendering for their slice.

Coca,
I would more than welcome any input you could add mate. Over the years, there have been far too many inputs; a recent chance conversation with a UeFA rep, long phone calls to a variety of football magazine journos, academic papers dug out from Google Scholar, news reports that were never followed up (why?) and then forgotten. Because I am aware of your academic background, I would respectfully suggest you trod your individual path on this. That way, instead of merely treading my footsteps, you are likely to find other stuff that can add to this.

Suggested starting places
For early G14 stuff, I found the archive of "When Saturday Comes" gave a pretty decent general grounding and opened various paths to investigate.
Matt Scott (Guardian) Is a useful starting point for events surrounding 2006 G14 policy document "Vision Europe" I went from that following links and links from links etc.
The Leaders In Sport conferences will give you a overview of the present scale and quality of the global networking currently going on and Soccerex may fill in sa few space too.
Google Scholar was very useful, depending on how I titled my searches, as quite a lot has been written about various football issues and "Football Sociology" was a useful search title too.

Much of the info I gleaned from various sources were only snippets, which when I chased them, widened out but all needed corroborating.

Let me know what you find Mate....and GOOD LUCK

[Ted Hughes]

That sounds very much them just keeping the Status Quo mate. The same teams, year in/year out, end up in the top 8 unless for some unseen circumstances (ie. David Moyes). They let the odd few through to show that there is competition there but in essence, nothing changes.

As you say, the league is run by money and there is no way that those who have no thought but for themselves will allow teams like us break their cartel. In their eyes they built the CL and it's their money they are taking out.

From when Van Pussy was sent off when Arsenal had a chance to get passed them, it was quite obvious what the score was. That was backed up by the Chelsea v Barca game that saw one of the most corrupt refereeing displays in the modern era. But the referee didn't decide that game, it was already decided way before KO.

Honestly John, I have no interest whatsoever in the CL, it's just a league that we're in. For many it is the pinnacle of the footballing fraternity but for me it's just a trough for the pigs to get stuck into. I'll watch it, course I will, and I'll support our team through thick and thin, but the reality is that the corruption from top to bottom really grips my shit.

The cartel is there for each to protect themselves with the help of the others, rather than each to protect each other, because they like each other.

I don't actually believe that there is any preference by the other clubs for Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal to be in it over City, just a desire to protect their own positions. Those clubs just happen to have got in first.

If it became more profitable for them to have City in the cartel rather than outside, & a club had to go in order to accomodate it, then they would drop whoever like a stone & put us in their place.

In the end though, the present system is making the majority of them a lot of money. There is no reason for them to change it, just because AC Milan & the rags have been shit. Would make no business sense at all.

[Beefymcfc]

That sounds very much them just keeping the Status Quo mate. The same teams, year in/year out, end up in the top 8 unless for some unseen circumstances (ie. David Moyes). They let the odd few through to show that there is competition there but in essence, nothing changes.

As you say, the league is run by money and there is no way that those who have no thought but for themselves will allow teams like us break their cartel. In their eyes they built the CL and it's their money they are taking out.

From when Van Pussy was sent off when Arsenal had a chance to get passed them, it was quite obvious what the score was. That was backed up by the Chelsea v Barca game that saw one of the most corrupt refereeing displays in the modern era. But the referee didn't decide that game, it was already decided way before KO.

Honestly John, I have no interest whatsoever in the CL, it's just a league that we're in. For many it is the pinnacle of the footballing fraternity but for me it's just a trough for the pigs to get stuck into. I'll watch it, course I will, and I'll support our team through thick and thin, but the reality is that the corruption from top to bottom really grips my shit.

The cartel is there for each to protect themselves with the help of the others, rather than each to protect each other, because they like each other.

I don't actually believe that there is any preference by the other clubs for Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal to be in it over City, just a desire to protect their own positions. Those clubs just happen to have got in first.

If it became more profitable for them to have City in the cartel rather than outside, & a club had to go in order to accomodate it, then they would drop whoever like a stone & put us in their place.

In the end though, the present system is making the majority of them a lot of money. There is no reason for them to change it, just because AC Milan & the rags have been shit. Would make no business sense at all.

Side by side they stand, ensuring that they prevail.

You're right in many ways but the fact that they'll back each other to the hilt says what the reality is. It's the old order and nothing will change that, until a team like us causes a rift because we come between a couple of them.

[Cocacolajojo1]

Lev,
From looking at the reasonably newly formed sports' global networking conferences and events going on (Leaders In Sport/Soccerex etc), I would suggest that Sky are not that big a player in the Global sense.

My reading would be that media and TV rights would be sold off regionally to a number of major broadcasters globally. Similar to the present model of Premier League media/TV rights. Each separate company competitively tendering for their slice.

Coca,
I would more than welcome any input you could add mate. Over the years, there have been far too many inputs; a recent chance conversation with a UeFA rep, long phone calls to a variety of football magazine journos, academic papers dug out from Google Scholar, news reports that were never followed up (why?) and then forgotten. Because I am aware of your academic background, I would respectfully suggest you trod your individual path on this. That way, instead of merely treading my footsteps, you are likely to find other stuff that can add to this.

Suggested starting places
For early G14 stuff, I found the archive of "When Saturday Comes" gave a pretty decent general grounding and opened various paths to investigate.
Matt Scott (Guardian) Is a useful starting point for events surrounding 2006 G14 policy document "Vision Europe" I went from that following links and links from links etc.
The Leaders In Sport conferences will give you a overview of the present scale and quality of the global networking currently going on and Soccerex may fill in sa few space too.
Google Scholar was very useful, depending on how I titled my searches, as quite a lot has been written about various football issues and "Football Sociology" was a useful search title too.

Much of the info I gleaned from various sources were only snippets, which when I chased them, widened out but all needed corroborating.

Let me know what you find Mate....and GOOD LUCK

Seems like you put down a lot of time mate. I doubt anyone could match you in tenacity.

Thanks for the tips, now I know what my vacation will look like.

[john68]

To add a bit of meat to the bones of how the old G14 and its old mentality has changed is probably best explained in a piece written in the Guardian, by Matt Scott in 2006.

[center]VISION EUROPE[/center]

"G14, comprising 18 of Europe's richest football powers, has launched an attempt to kill off the Champions League in its present form and seize ownership of the game's most prestigious club competition. The G14 group, whose members include Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal, has agreed an internal policy document, exclusively obtained by the Guardian, which outlines their intention to guarantee the dominance of their 18 clubs in European football.

The plan outlined in the document marks a dramatic change in their stance. In its G14 Vision Europe blueprint, the organisation acknowledges that in the past it has been little more than a pressure group, relying on the reputations of its members to influence the future direction of European football. However the policy document indicates a massive shift in strategy over the past six months.

It states: "From the beginning, G14's strategy was to act as a 'professional lobbying' organisation on behalf of Europe's top-level clubs ... It was felt in 2001 that, only in extreme cases and as an ultimate recourse, should G14 contest and fight openly on issues. . . it may be that we have now reached the point where we might wish to reconsider this latter approach."

This is more than idle introspection. Last September, G14 became a co-signatory to the case being brought by Royal Charleroi against Fifa, challenging the legality of the world governing body's regulations over the release of players for international duty. Charleroi's Morocco international Abdelmajid Oulmers had returned from a match against Burkina Faso with an ankle injury and his club were refused compensation. The case, in which G14 will argue that the rules are an illegal abuse of Fifa's dominant position as the game's regulator and commercial agent by organising international tournaments, goes to Belgium's Charleroi Commercial Court on Monday.

Also last September, G14's general assembly of member clubs commissioned its Vision Europe document, the first draft of which was drawn up by the management committee, whose general manager is Thomas Kurth.

The very presence of Kurth at G14 has always led to speculation about the organisation's motives for he joined just over five years ago after a decade spent working for Uefa as its head of competitions.


The multilingual Swiss had been the tournament coordinator for the 1992 and 1996 European Championships, as well as every finals tournament of the Champions League; with the latest revelations, it appears long-held concerns over G14's intentions for European club competitions have been well founded.

There are parallels between what the 18 traditional elite clubs intend for the European game and the "land grab" it is believed the professional game is attempting to engineer from the Football Association in this country.

Here it is widely assumed that, coinciding with the Burns report, Premiership clubs are seeking the division of governance and revenue generation. Unlike G14's Vision Europe, however, there has never been any explicit policy document to that effect. "The areas of authority and competence of the European football 'regulator' [ie the governing body] on the one hand, and the 'club body' in charge of the clubs' international competitions on the other, would be clearly and adequately defined," says G14's Vision Europe.

Uefa, whose position as tournament organiser for the Champions League would also be threatened by G14's legal challenge in Belgium, will vigorously defend itself. The European governing body had released its own strategy document, also entitled "Vision Europe", 11 months ago which stated: "This document unashamedly presents the G14's position in a similar way to that laid out by Uefa."

The competition as it currently exists was born of a previous challenge from Europe's richest clubs, in the early 1990s, when they argued that the pure knockout format of the tournament was too hazardous. Uefa responded to those complaints by setting up the Champions League, with its initial group stage. In the 13 years since, every victorious club has been part of that exclusive group. G14 Vision Europe would take this still further.

"It is apartheid: it would be the end of the European model of football," said Uefa's communications director William Gaillard. "They want to get rid of promotion and relegation and introduce the American model of a closed league. They might as well transform football into American professional wrestling where everything is predictable because it has all been mapped out before. It would also be the end of national teams."

Pressure has been building on Uefa's position ever since Media Partners, an Italy-based company, attempted to organise a club breakaway in 1998. That time, the European governing body headed off the challenge by expanding the Champions League from 16 to 32 clubs. How they respond to the latest threat appears set to define the landscape of European club football"

From that piece and other corroborating evidence, it seems that there have been several serious attempts to set up a breakaway league that have been headed of by UeFA submitting to the G14's demands. the piece also shows how in 2005/6, the G14's ambitions changed dramatically from lobbyists to challenging and beating UeFA's and FiFA's klegal right to regulate football as governing bodies.