Tactical Disaster

[Ted Hughes]

Are we getting the best out of the squad we have available?

Not for me. Not v Sunderland & Liverpool anyway.

We should have been looking for a smash & grab at Anfield & just sat back & hit Sunderland on the break. Instead, we were being caught on the counter attack constantly. We had moments of stupidity v West Brom too, which on another day, would end in goals against & cause a panic.

I understand the philosophy behind it & I'm in total agreement with it for the most part, but there has to come a time when you look at the condition of the players & realise that they just can't do it for 90 mins. It's not as ifd the Count can't put out a different style of team if he wants to.

We may have no option but to go shit or bust at Palace, the way Pulis plays, but if we do get in front in these games, imo we should be looking to keep the ball & hit teams on the counter, not all rushing forward into the oppo half, then strolling back leaving the back 4 to cope with everything.

[Blue Since 76]

Are we getting the best out of the squad we have available?

No where near. Some of the players need to take a look at themselves, but Pellegrini has to carry the can as well. He could still get away with it - if we win the last 4 games, we could win the league and even if not, there will be regrets but probably not recriminations. However, there's two tough away games and a couple of tricky home games to go and anywhere below top performances will likely lead to dropped points.

[Ted Hughes]

Are we getting the best out of the squad we have available?

No where near. Some of the players need to take a look at themselves, but Pellegrini has to carry the can as well. He could still get away with it - if we win the last 4 games, we could win the league and even if not, there will be regrets but probably not recriminations. However, there's two tough away games and a couple of tricky home games to go and anywhere below top performances will likely lead to dropped points.

If we lose we lose. It's if we throw the towel in that I won't be happy.

[Hazy2]

Are we getting the best out of the squad we have available?

No where near. Some of the players need to take a look at themselves, but Pellegrini has to carry the can as well. He could still get away with it - if we win the last 4 games, we could win the league and even if not, there will be regrets but probably not recriminations. However, there's two tough away games and a couple of tricky home games to go and anywhere below top performances will likely lead to dropped points.

If we lose we lose. It's if we throw the towel in that I won't be happy.

We have a third of the squad who are pretty much redundant, the use of them is scandalous, 3 /4 mill a season for 9 games . Pellets has a created a 14/ 15 players nailed on, Silva abused with being wheeled out when on one leg. Mancini was hard, but he more than Pellers was building a more efficient method, as I said the other night the 4 teams left all adapted to the circs, we have 5 gears all forward, bottle Yaya and Silva, squeeze Kun and we are liable to go off on one and get done, Sunday for me is crucial to City and the future is does this squad have a future or are we gonna show no belly as we have done now for 2 seasons,players downed tools in a cup final, do it again Pellers is undermined and we are need help.

[Ted Hughes]

Are we getting the best out of the squad we have available?

No where near. Some of the players need to take a look at themselves, but Pellegrini has to carry the can as well. He could still get away with it - if we win the last 4 games, we could win the league and even if not, there will be regrets but probably not recriminations. However, there's two tough away games and a couple of tricky home games to go and anywhere below top performances will likely lead to dropped points.

If we lose we lose. It's if we throw the towel in that I won't be happy.

We have a third of the squad who are pretty much redundant, the use of them is scandalous, 3 /4 mill a season for 9 games . Pellets has a created a 14/ 15 players nailed on, Silva abused with being wheeled out when on one leg. Mancini was hard, but he more than Pellers was building a more efficient method, as I said the other night the 4 teams left all adapted to the circs, we have 5 gears all forward, bottle Yaya and Silva, squeeze Kun and we are liable to go off on one and get done, Sunday for me is crucial to City and the future is does this squad have a future or are we gonna show no belly as we have done now for 2 seasons,players downed tools in a cup final, do it again Pellers is undermined and we are need help.

Tbh, Pellegrini should be able to go on holiday tomorrow, with Kiddo & that nutcase bloke, & whatever the result, we should see a squad of players fighting to the absolute death for 3 points. If we don't get the result, but we put in 100% then it is what it is. If the players don't turn up, then we need big changes to that squad. A mistake, like VK made v scouses, is one thing but we have to fight til the death.

They should be looking at this game as being much bigger than a cup final. Even if Liverpool beat Chelsea, we have seen from our game v QPR what can happen, even when everything is on a plate for you. That was so close to a home defeat.

Literally anything can happen in any of these games, in our favour or against us. What we can't do, is chuck it in unless it's mathematically impossible. A draw tomorrow may be enough to derail Liverpool for the next game.

They have had nothing to lose all season. Now they have everything to lose. They could be more comfortable playing Chelsea, than Palace & Newcastle for all we know; this stuff happens.

We have to get these points on the board, by whatever means neccessary.

[Hazy2]

Are we getting the best out of the squad we have available?

No where near. Some of the players need to take a look at themselves, but Pellegrini has to carry the can as well. He could still get away with it - if we win the last 4 games, we could win the league and even if not, there will be regrets but probably not recriminations. However, there's two tough away games and a couple of tricky home games to go and anywhere below top performances will likely lead to dropped points.

If we lose we lose. It's if we throw the towel in that I won't be happy.

We have a third of the squad who are pretty much redundant, the use of them is scandalous, 3 /4 mill a season for 9 games . Pellets has a created a 14/ 15 players nailed on, Silva abused with being wheeled out when on one leg. Mancini was hard, but he more than Pellers was building a more efficient method, as I said the other night the 4 teams left all adapted to the circs, we have 5 gears all forward, bottle Yaya and Silva, squeeze Kun and we are liable to go off on one and get done, Sunday for me is crucial to City and the future is does this squad have a future or are we gonna show no belly as we have done now for 2 seasons,players downed tools in a cup final, do it again Pellers is undermined and we are need help.

Tbh, Pellegrini should be able to go on holiday tomorrow, with Kiddo & that nutcase bloke, & whatever the result, we should see a squad of players fighting to the absolute death for 3 points. If we don't get the result, but we put in 100% then it is what it is. If the players don't turn up, then we need big changes to that squad. A mistake, like VK made v scouses, is one thing but we have to fight til the death.

They should be looking at this game as being much bigger than a cup final. Even if Liverpool beat Chelsea, we have seen from our game v QPR what can happen, even when everything is on a plate for you. That was so close to a home defeat.

Literally anything can happen in any of these games, in our favour or against us. What we can't do, is chuck it in unless it's mathematically impossible. A draw tomorrow may be enough to derail Liverpool for the next game.

They have had nothing to lose all season. Now they have everything to lose. They could be more comfortable playing Chelsea, than Palace & Newcastle for all we know; this stuff happens.

We have to get these points on the board, by whatever means neccessary.

I hope I am wrong but unless we get a hard nosed team from manager to players games like tomorrow are not what they would be for the best sides in Europe let alone the premier, we for me need some fire not nice.

[Original Dub]

We've no leader in the middle of the park. We have technical excellence but someone like kompany that can take a game by the scruff of the neck in midfield is a must for me

[nottsblue]

We've no leader in the middle of the park. We have technical excellence but someone like kompany that can take a game by the scruff of the neck in midfield is a must for me

Lescott and MDM in defence and Kompany in midfield?

[Original Dub]

Lescott and MDM in defence and Kompany in midfield?

I meant long term mate.

And we need both. Leadership in defence and leadership in midfield.

[Cocacolajojo1]

I completely agree with you, but what are you insist we do? Play a different formation? Spend in the summer?

I don't know. If we lose the title to Liverpool this weekend I agree with Ted, it's youngster time.

For the short term, if we want to win the title and we don't fuck it up this weekend we switch to a five man midfield. Anything else is dogmatic I'd say. Also, I love five man midfields.

For the long term, make it clear to Pellegrini that if he doesn't rotate to a larger degree and play fringe players, EDS or youth players and if he doesn't utilize the entire squad for at least the fringe games, he's no upgrade in the holistic department and we get rid. I'm not saying the board force it on him, like in draft his starting elevens and benches. But the board needs to make this an emphasized demand for Pelle to bring into his calculations and planning for the next season.

However if he persists with his ways of this season and wins the league next season, I think nothing will happen. Perhaps it even shouldn't. But it'll be a shame and it will turn the club more into Barcelona than I would like, I.E. a team that's clearly divided between regulars and guest players and there's little or no changes in which players belong inside the regulars. See lex Ibrahimovic, Villa, yada yada, etc

[blues2win]

We shouldn't be afraid to shoot from long distance and we may need a goal from dead ball. The worst thing would be to try to fiddle things through a congested middle with no width. We need Kolarov and I would play Milner on the Right in the absence of Navas. Agree entirely with Ted. Fight to the death to get a win any which way. Palace have done well but they're no world beaters either.

[Original Dub]

Aside from the cup final, everytime there is a "big game" and one where if we win we propel ourselves into a great position, we've bottled it.

If that happens tomorrow it's another one on a long list.

That normally means it is a lack of fight in the players and could see two or three "big ones" being shown the door imo.

[Hazy2]

Aside from the cup final, everytime there is a "big game" and one where if we win we propel ourselves into a great position, we've bottled it.

If that happens tomorrow it's another one on a long list.

That normally means it is a lack of fight in the players and could see two or three "big ones" being shown the door imo.

If it is a roll,over job and I hope it does not happen, them for me make Zabba captain, Vinny is world class but never a captain as he is to quiet, further down the line allow the manager the chance to explain it. Because if we were to have a hostile crowd 1st game next season and another shit our pants performance, the season could be fucked in 90 mins, fans I know an go home and away with all say the same, this team is magic, but flawed . Mancini saw it handled it wrong and the players saw him off, he has not been wrong the season has seen so many things that drove him nuts, I posted after QPR , last season , Mancini knows what is wrong the players do not have the balls to accept it. We lack a Tevez type who often said fuck this, despite his fall out with the ex manager that was where we are short now.

[dazby]

We've no leader in the middle of the park. We have technical excellence but someone like kompany that can take a game by the scruff of the neck in midfield is a must for me

There's this guy called Yaya Toure. You should watch him sometime. He's really good.

[Original Dub]

There's this guy called Yaya Toure. You should watch him sometime. He's really good.

oh dear

[Ted Hughes]

Aside from the cup final, everytime there is a "big game" and one where if we win we propel ourselves into a great position, we've bottled it.

If that happens tomorrow it's another one on a long list.

That normally means it is a lack of fight in the players and could see two or three "big ones" being shown the door imo.

If it is a roll,over job and I hope it does not happen, them for me make Zabba captain, Vinny is world class but never a captain as he is to quiet, further down the line allow the manager the chance to explain it. Because if we were to have a hostile crowd 1st game next season and another shit our pants performance, the season could be fucked in 90 mins, fans I know an go home and away with all say the same, this team is magic, but flawed . Mancini saw it handled it wrong and the players saw him off, he has not been wrong the season has seen so many things that drove him nuts, I posted after QPR , last season , Mancini knows what is wrong the players do not have the balls to accept it. We lack a Tevez type who often said fuck this, despite his fall out with the ex manager that was where we are short now.

Mancini was part of the problem rather than part of the solution imo. The marginalisation of DeJong, Lescott & Barry in favour of people like Rodwell & Nastasic is one of the reasons the mentality has become weaker in the dressing room.

When people build title winning squads, they hold on to the 'big' players, even when some are a bit past it, because they recognise the importance of their experience & influence. We have seen t at rags & are seeing it now in the Champions League with Chelsea.

Mancini couldn't wait to start tearing up what he built & the Count has just followed on. Bob built champions then set about destroying them. If we don't win the title this year, then by next season, the title winning team will almost have ceased to exist & been replaced with something else, pretty much starting from scratch.

The Count:

"The way I want to win the title would be to be the best team of the year, to play attractive football for the fans, to be a team with character and personality.

"If that is not what is wanted then maybe another manager comes here who wants to play kicking the ball high, trying to score just one goal and the game is over, and every week complaining about the referee.

"You can have a little advantage with some unfair play but I don't think it's the way to do it."

[Beefymcfc]

Mancini was part of the problem rather than part of the solution imo. The marginalisation of DeJong, Lescott & Barry in favour of people like Rodwell & Nastasic is one of the reasons the mentality has become weaker in the dressing room.

When people build title winning squads, they hold on to the 'big' players, even when some are a bit past it, because they recognise the importance of their experience & influence. We have seen t at rags & are seeing it now in the Champions League with Chelsea.

Mancini couldn't wait to start tearing up what he built & the Count has just followed on. Bob built champions then set about destroying them. If we don't win the title this year, then by next season, the title winning team will almost have ceased to exist & been replaced with something else, pretty much starting from scratch.

The Count:

"The way I want to win the title would be to be the best team of the year, to play attractive football for the fans, to be a team with character and personality.

"If that is not what is wanted then maybe another manager comes here who wants to play kicking the ball high, trying to score just one goal and the game is over, and every week complaining about the referee.

"You can have a little advantage with some unfair play but I don't think it's the way to do it."

Are you trying to re-write history again Ted? I agree with the gist of your post but to say Mancini tried to dismantle a winning mentality is a little disingenuous. What has to be taken into account was the transfer window, one that turned from an exciting time for Blues into a complete disaster. We went from Hazard, Pussy, De Rossi etc and ended up with a throng of last minute bargain basement buys that left everybody, including the fans, scratching their heads. That set the tone for the 'mentality' and from the outset of the season, we looked completely flat.

And the players you mention, the marginalisation of de Jong, Lescott and Barry. I'll give you Lescott as I was exactly the same as you, wondering what the fuck he had to do to get a game. How Nasti was picked over him for the Real game had me completely bamboozled. However, with the change of manager I thought that Lescott would get a look-in but he was left out even then in favour of a player we picked up for a few quid and never played in this league. So maybe it wasn't just a manager problem, but also a club problem. One thing to note is that Lescott actually started every game at the start of the 2012-13 season, and it may just be coincidence but it was after our new boys were in place that he disappeared out of sight.

As for Nige and Gaz Baz, completely wrong and out of context. During the PL winning season de Jong started off as a regular but ended up playing bit-parts as the season moved on. He wasn't a major factor in us winning the league and I put that down to his ongoing contract talks where he refused to sign a new and improved contract. How could he marginalise somebody who had already decided to leave; is that what we promote? As for Barry, he was a Mancini stalwart, the bloke loved him. He was an ever-present during our title win and would have been in the following season if not for injuries. I seem to remember him being out for the start of the season and then for a decent period before Christmas. Once he was fit though, he played in the majority of the games.

There were a lot of factors surrounding last seasons poor title defence and not all of them were down to just one man. The thing that pissed me off more about last season was the whole 'Who's in-charge' business and why we Sorriano waited until the window closed to physically join the club. It was if the scene had already been set and we'd decided that instead of improving the squad and going on from there, we'd sit back, let the new boys have a look at what they wanted to change and only then would we move with the next phase. And that's where we are, moving onto the next phase.

[Ted Hughes]

Mancini was part of the problem rather than part of the solution imo. The marginalisation of DeJong, Lescott & Barry in favour of people like Rodwell & Nastasic is one of the reasons the mentality has become weaker in the dressing room.

When people build title winning squads, they hold on to the 'big' players, even when some are a bit past it, because they recognise the importance of their experience & influence. We have seen t at rags & are seeing it now in the Champions League with Chelsea.

Mancini couldn't wait to start tearing up what he built & the Count has just followed on. Bob built champions then set about destroying them. If we don't win the title this year, then by next season, the title winning team will almost have ceased to exist & been replaced with something else, pretty much starting from scratch.

The Count:

"The way I want to win the title would be to be the best team of the year, to play attractive football for the fans, to be a team with character and personality.

"If that is not what is wanted then maybe another manager comes here who wants to play kicking the ball high, trying to score just one goal and the game is over, and every week complaining about the referee.

"You can have a little advantage with some unfair play but I don't think it's the way to do it."

Are you trying to re-write history again Ted? I agree with the gist of your post but to say Mancini tried to dismantle a winning mentality is a little disingenuous. What has to be taken into account was the transfer window, one that turned from an exciting time for Blues into a complete disaster. We went from Hazard, Pussy, De Rossi etc and ended up with a throng of last minute bargain basement buys that left everybody, including the fans, scratching their heads. That set the tone for the 'mentality' and from the outset of the season, we looked completely flat.

And the players you mention, the marginalisation of de Jong, Lescott and Barry. I'll give you Lescott as I was exactly the same as you, wondering what the fuck he had to do to get a game. How Nasti was picked over him for the Real game had me completely bamboozled. However, with the change of manager I thought that Lescott would get a look-in but he was left out even then in favour of a player we picked up for a few quid and never played in this league. So maybe it wasn't just a manager problem, but also a club problem. One thing to note is that Lescott actually started every game at the start of the 2012-13 season, and it may just be coincidence but it was after our new boys were in place that he disappeared out of sight.

As for Nige and Gaz Baz, completely wrong and out of context. During the PL winning season de Jong started off as a regular but ended up playing bit-parts as the season moved on. He wasn't a major factor in us winning the league and I put that down to is ongoing contract talks where he refused to sign a new and improved contract. How could he marginalise somebody who had already decided to leave; is that what we promote? As for Barry, he was a Mancini stalwart, the bloke loved him. He was an ever-present during our title win and would have been in the following season if not for injuries. I seem to remember him being out for the start of the season and then for a decent period before Christmas. Once he was fit though, he played in the majority of the games.

There were a lot of factors surrounding last seasons poor title defence and not all of them were down to just one man. The thing that pissed me off more about last season was the whole 'Who's in-charge' business and why we Sorriano waited until the window closed to physically join the club. It was if the scene had already been set and we'd decided that instead of improving the squad and going on from there, we'd sit back, let the new boys have a look at what they wanted to change and only then would we move with the next phase. And that's where we are, moving onto the next phase.

I was making the point about Mancini fucking up the back 4 in August that season & it's posted on here if you don't believe me. I kept with that theme for most of the season. You will also find threads with me & Doug discussing how we think it could be a bad manoeuvre letting go of DeJong, not because of his brilliance on the pitch, but because was a big figure in the dressing room.

I said at the start of this season that I felt letting Barry go was an enormous mistake.

So no, I'm not rewriting anything, I'm repeating what I said would happen, before any of it happened.

[Beefymcfc]

I was making the point about Mancini fucking up the back 4 in August that season & it's posted on here if you don't believe me. I kept with that theme for most of the season. You will also find threads with me & Doug discussing how we think it could be a bad manoeuvre letting go of DeJong, not because of his brilliance on the pitch, but because was a big figure in the dressing room.

I said at the start of this season that I felt letting Barry go was an enormous mistake.

So no, I'm not rewriting anything, I'm repeating what I said would happen, before any of it happened.

It was the same for many mate, we were all saying the same thing but to say de Jong and Barry were down to Mancini is how I said, just wrong. Nige had made his mind up and for whatever reason he wanted to go. He did exactly the same with Ajaz, running the contract down and not wanting to renew, moving to Hamburg for pittance. He then tried it with Hamburg but on this occassion, Hamburg knowing we were in for him, they inserted an extension in there and it cost us a small fortune to get him only for him to run his contract down with us and again, we got pittance for him. He was great around the club, we could all see that but do you offer a bloke even more just to sit him on the bench or because he can make people smile on the training ground. It was out of Mancini's hands as Nige had done what Nige does - Do your time and move on.

And as you've just said, how is it Mancini's fault that Barry was moved on by a new manager? Again, many thought it was a mistake and some still do but what's that got to do with Mancini? Sounds like you're either getting mixed up a little or using Nige and Barry to back-up your views on the Lescott situation, which I agree with btw.

Back on topic a little, tactically I think we've gone back a step with regard to playing 4-4-2 (or derivative) as I don't think it's the way forward. However, I do understand why we do it in the aim to keep our 4 forwards in the game and in the limelight. That's all part of the holistic approach but has it made us a better team for it?

Well, we've played some great football (which I could also say of previous seasons) and it's brought us a lot of goals but looking at comparisons we are only 3 points better off than we were last season. That's a difference that I didn't expect, even if it is his 1st season in-charge.

[Hazy2]

Ted, Mancini saw this coming, he new the midfield needed bite, I loved De Jong, we miss him, however he the club and fans did not see his value to most of all Vinny, who misses him badly,. Barry ever present, when rested, Pelllers has fucked him off to stop Garcia looking second rate, JL sadly under used by both Pellers has killed him this year. Along with Milner.