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Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Are you talking about when Terry used Nastasic's shoulders as a spring-board?

Yeah! That was when Nasti new Terry had no chance of getting a good header away because of his great positioning and timing, blocking Terry. Good lad our Nasti , if he continues as he has since joining us he is going to be one of the top centre backs in his mid twenties..... still some years away . Often forgotten on here how mature he is as a player for his age.

Ted Hughes wrote:

kinkylola wrote:
I also think that Nastasic should sit a few matches, I don't know if this is the best time to do that, i'm not a psychologist I have no idea what effect that would have on nasti. But with Kompany out, it will be pretty tough to do. I wouldn't mind seeing Demi and Lescott given a go in the cup game. Both players need the game time to catch up.

The most painfully obvious thing is that we depend on Kompany 100%.

Mancini should have worked on Lescott to build his confidence & make him feel as important & confident as Vinny, but imo his man management was utterly shit & I'm now glad he's gone. Pellegrini has done the same thing with Lescott though & I can't see any future for him.

I don't trust Lescott anymore; he looks nervous. But he's better than Nastasic, nervous or not.

Ultimately we need to sign a superstar rather than trust Nastasic imo. If he's good enough, he will come through over the next few seasons & challenge whoever is there. If he isn't good enough to be first choice in the long run (which I recon will be the case) he can be 3rd/4th choice or sold.

I just think that we are pouring out so much angst and not addressing (the club that is) the key issue. It should have been clear that we absolutely needed a top CB last summer to partner Vinnie, allow Nastasic to develop and then keep some others on contract such as Lescott to provide cover.

You state that Lescott is better than Nastasic like it is a fact - it is just your opinion - many on here - I am one - would start Nastasic ahead of Lescott without even a moments consideration - he is way better - again just an opinion - but an equally valid one.

Then it all starts getting into camps - a Lescott camp - a Nastasic camp etc. - when that is not the point. We needed and need a top CB - especially as Vinnie's injury record starts to make you wonder if he can be relied on to be the rock that he should be.

You say that you do not trust Lescott - so he is not really a solution then. I am personally confident that if he had been starting recently then this thread would still exist but it would be titled Lescott and be even more vitriolic because (IMO) he has far more flaws and his confidence is shot - but given the investment in developing this squad, having to choose between 2 options which are not very good options is ridiculous and the CB issue is undermining the entire team displays.

The need was not addressed in the Summer - it should be addressed in January and they should be identifying the right person now.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:It looked to me like he was obviously intending to nod it back to the keeper but had to make a split second decision to try and head it out (forced on him by seeing Cocoa the Hart taking his clown feet for a spin) but couldn't get enough weight on his header. clearly Hart's fault.
I've not forgiven Nasti for letting terry jump unchallenged for a corner kick though, he wants resting for that, it was unacceptable.

Are you talking about when Terry used Nastasic's shoulders as a spring-board?

Nope, Im talking about the time he let Terry jump unchallenged for the ball, as shown in slow motion replay, without responding to either the player or the ball.

Dameerto wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:It looked to me like he was obviously intending to nod it back to the keeper but had to make a split second decision to try and head it out (forced on him by seeing Cocoa the Hart taking his clown feet for a spin) but couldn't get enough weight on his header. clearly Hart's fault.
I've not forgiven Nasti for letting terry jump unchallenged for a corner kick though, he wants resting for that, it was unacceptable.

Are you talking about when Terry used Nastasic's shoulders as a spring-board?

Nope, Im talking about the time he let Terry jump unchallenged for the ball, as shown in slow motion replay, without responding to either the player or the ball.

So Terry wasn't climbing on his shoulders preventing him from jumping then? Can you point me in the direction of a replay because I'm sure Terry was fouling.

zuricity wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:
Are you talking about when Terry used Nastasic's shoulders as a spring-board?

Yeah! That was when Nasti new Terry had no chance of getting a good header away because of his great positioning and timing, blocking Terry. Good lad our Nasti , if he continues as he has since joining us he is going to be one of the top centre backs in his mid twenties..... still some years away . Often forgotten on here how mature he is as a player for his age.

What the fuck ?

Terry jumped unchallenged headed the ball cleanly & missed the target, Nastasic stood still and put out a limp arm in the direction of JT & did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Terry whatsover . It was absolutlely shocking defending & highlighted as such on TV at the time.

No wonder people rate the bloke if that was a good example of defending.

There is basically nothing this guy can do wrong for some people. All he has to do, is turn up & put a shirt on; that's it.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:It looked to me like he was obviously intending to nod it back to the keeper but had to make a split second decision to try and head it out (forced on him by seeing Cocoa the Hart taking his clown feet for a spin) but couldn't get enough weight on his header. clearly Hart's fault.
I've not forgiven Nasti for letting terry jump unchallenged for a corner kick though, he wants resting for that, it was unacceptable.

Are you talking about when Terry used Nastasic's shoulders as a spring-board?

Nope, Im talking about the time he let Terry jump unchallenged for the ball, as shown in slow motion replay, without responding to either the player or the ball.

So Terry wasn't climbing on his shoulders preventing him from jumping then? Can you point me in the direction of a replay because I'm sure Terry was fouling.

No, Terry jumped unchallenged & it's not an isolated occasion, I pointed out plenty last season & then got fed up of mentioning it because nobody cares.

Cahill several times, Torres several times were left totally unchallenged during the game. Later Demichelis started at least trying to pick up whilst Nastasic wandered around like a knob.

It seems he just does what the fuck he likes & it doesn't matter, people are still happy with it.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:It looked to me like he was obviously intending to nod it back to the keeper but had to make a split second decision to try and head it out (forced on him by seeing Cocoa the Hart taking his clown feet for a spin) but couldn't get enough weight on his header. clearly Hart's fault.
I've not forgiven Nasti for letting terry jump unchallenged for a corner kick though, he wants resting for that, it was unacceptable.

Are you talking about when Terry used Nastasic's shoulders as a spring-board?

Nope, Im talking about the time he let Terry jump unchallenged for the ball, as shown in slow motion replay, without responding to either the player or the ball.

So Terry wasn't climbing on his shoulders preventing him from jumping then? Can you point me in the direction of a replay because I'm sure Terry was fouling.

No, Terry jumped unchallenged & it's not an isolated occasion, I pointed out plenty last season & then got fed up of mentioning it because nobody cares.

Cahill several times, Torres several times were left totally unchallenged during the game. Later Demichelis started at least trying to pick up whilst Nastasic wandered around like a knob.

It seems he just does what the fuck he likes & it doesn't matter, people are still happy with it.

one person saying that this was good defending. Don't lump everyone together. There are plenty of people who can support Nasti, but also recognize the mistakes he makes, and that was a howler. Really bizarre that he would not even jump there.

kinkylola wrote:
one person saying that this was good defending. Don't lump everyone together. There are plenty of people who can support Nasti, but also recognize the mistakes he makes, and that was a howler. Really bizarre that he would not even jump there.

He's done the same many times.

I mean in general though. When Lescott was paying regularly, even a slight hesitation on a pass would bring a selection of negative comments, even if he did nothing wrong, & if he made an actual mistake, it would bring a lynch mob.

I've mostly just sat & observed re Nastasic after initially pointing out a percentage of his errors to try even it out & being called obsessed, which made me laugh considering the treatment JL gets. I just left it for the most part but yesterday, he was crap, & people can't just sweep that away. Recently some people have mentioned some of his fuckups & complained about it, but still it's only about 10% that get picked up on.

I actually think he's done ok for a kid, but he has dropped lots of bollocks from small to large & just isn't a proper defender at this stage. JL will get absolutely slaughtered tomorrow if he plays a typical Nastasic game. I just don't get it. They are both City players entitled to the same treatment & each performance should get the same scrutiny.

Someone earlier posted about Demichelis 'losing his man' for Chelsea's 1st, but what the fuck was Nasti doing at the time ? Runs towards the near post but doesn't even stick a foot out to intercept ? What was his intention ? Why was he there ?

No mention; just Demichelis at fault. Remember JL being amongst a group of players caught out near post earlier in the season ? He certainly got a starring mention, even though there were other players there as well.

I don't understand why one gets his hat nailed on & another gets away with almost everything.

I don't believe that Sunday's goal would be just Joe Hart's fault if Lescott had been defending it.

Ted Hughes wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:It looked to me like he was obviously intending to nod it back to the keeper but had to make a split second decision to try and head it out (forced on him by seeing Cocoa the Hart taking his clown feet for a spin) but couldn't get enough weight on his header. clearly Hart's fault.
I've not forgiven Nasti for letting terry jump unchallenged for a corner kick though, he wants resting for that, it was unacceptable.

Are you talking about when Terry used Nastasic's shoulders as a spring-board?

Nope, Im talking about the time he let Terry jump unchallenged for the ball, as shown in slow motion replay, without responding to either the player or the ball.

So Terry wasn't climbing on his shoulders preventing him from jumping then? Can you point me in the direction of a replay because I'm sure Terry was fouling.

No, Terry jumped unchallenged & it's not an isolated occasion, I pointed out plenty last season & then got fed up of mentioning it because nobody cares.

Cahill several times, Torres several times were left totally unchallenged during the game. Later Demichelis started at least trying to pick up whilst Nastasic wandered around like a knob.

It seems he just does what the fuck he likes & it doesn't matter, people are still happy with it.

I could've sworn I saw Terry's hands on both his shoulders.

That aside, I don't get why you're addressing the rest of that at me, I've never fawned over Nastasic the way others have. Always thought he looked good for his age, no more no less.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

That aside, I don't get why you're addressing the rest of that at me, I've never fawned over Nastasic the way others have. Always thought he looked good for his age, no more no less.

I wasn't, I said 'people'. As I said above, he seems to get a free pass on this kind of thing whilst others get nailed.

And no, Terry didn't touch him on the occasion in question. Nastasic stuck an arm out to Terry who jumped on his own. It's not an unusual occurrence for Nastasic on set pieces.

I've watched Chelsea's goal over and over and yes Hart fucked up by coming out, but Nasti should of read the danger, saw what was happening and been aware of what was around him and cleared the danger, f@@k me he had plenty of time to read and sum up the situation.

Solution, drop the pair of them for quite a number of games!!

IF he had turned with the ball Hart would still have looked like a twat again.This debate would have been Hart got away with murder and could have cost us again, as it was he did not even have the brains to stop the ball no matter what.

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:

Foreverinbluedreams wrote:

Dameerto wrote:It looked to me like he was obviously intending to nod it back to the keeper but had to make a split second decision to try and head it out (forced on him by seeing Cocoa the Hart taking his clown feet for a spin) but couldn't get enough weight on his header. clearly Hart's fault.
I've not forgiven Nasti for letting terry jump unchallenged for a corner kick though, he wants resting for that, it was unacceptable.

Are you talking about when Terry used Nastasic's shoulders as a spring-board?

Nope, Im talking about the time he let Terry jump unchallenged for the ball, as shown in slow motion replay, without responding to either the player or the ball.

So Terry wasn't climbing on his shoulders preventing him from jumping then? Can you point me in the direction of a replay because I'm sure Terry was fouling.

Go ask Sky, they were the ones televising the match.

I think Hart was at fault coming in the first place. However the minute Nastasic saw him he had two choices leave it for Hart or head it to the touch line.

Not to head it over him or back to him.

To me Nastasic isn't a better defender than lescott and I don't think he's wonderful on the ball that it outweighs the defending like Luiz at Chelsea.

I think he needs to be taken out of the team for a while. And learn his trade in training watching Vinnie.

simplytolmie wrote:I think Hart was at fault coming in the first place. However the minute Nastasic saw him he had two choices leave it for Hart or head it to the touch line.

Not to head it over him or back to him.

To me Nastasic isn't a better defender than lescott and I don't think he's wonderful on the ball that it outweighs the defending like Luiz at Chelsea.

I think he needs to be taken out of the team for a while. And learn his trade in training watching Vinnie.

How will watching Vinnie help, he's always injured? And if not injured , getting himself sent off .

mcfc1632 wrote:
I just think that we are pouring out so much angst and not addressing (the club that is) the key issue. It should have been clear that we absolutely needed a top CB last summer to partner Vinnie, allow Nastasic to develop and then keep some others on contract such as Lescott to provide cover.

You state that Lescott is better than Nastasic like it is a fact - it is just your opinion - many on here - I am one - would start Nastasic ahead of Lescott without even a moments consideration - he is way better - again just an opinion - but an equally valid one.

Then it all starts getting into camps - a Lescott camp - a Nastasic camp etc. - when that is not the point. We needed and need a top CB - especially as Vinnie's injury record starts to make you wonder if he can be relied on to be the rock that he should be.

You say that you do not trust Lescott - so he is not really a solution then. I am personally confident that if he had been starting recently then this thread would still exist but it would be titled Lescott and be even more vitriolic because (IMO) he has far more flaws and his confidence is shot - but given the investment in developing this squad, having to choose between 2 options which are not very good options is ridiculous and the CB issue is undermining the entire team displays.

The need was not addressed in the Summer - it should be addressed in January and they should be identifying the right person now.

Great post.

I used to be a big Nastasic backer. Now I'm not so sure anymore but I'm not convinced the other way either, althogh Lescott had a very good game yesterday when he single-handedly kept our defense working despite the short-comings of his colleagues in the back four. There are pros and cons with both players.... And anyone who's not suffering from some sort of borderline diagnose would recognize that.

And as you say, there needs to be some sort of purchase asap UNLESS Lescott becomes who he was one and a half season ago. Then noone who's genuinely interested in seeing City win games and defend well should have any qualms with him despite his so called brick feet.I'll take those any day of the week instead of having Garcia playing centre back.

How can anyone think nasti is better than lescott after last night is blind. Nasti week in week out fucks up, can't defend, let's himself get beaten by his man and is slow for his age. If lescott had any sense he would put a transfer in if this mug starts ahead of him week in and out.

MilnersJaw wrote:How can anyone think nasti is better than lescott after last night is blind. Nasti week in week out fucks up, can't defend, let's himself get beaten by his man and is slow for his age. If lescott had any sense he would put a transfer in if this mug starts ahead of him week in and out.

Agree with you here.
AS Ted said the other week, Lescott is like a magnet to the ball. He always seems to be there, getting stuck in, making blocks, interceptions and tackles.
Last night he also had very little to pass to in midfield so actually stepped forward and made a couple of nice passes to set up attacks.
He's not world class, he's not completely error prone but he's so much better than Nastasic, Garcia or anyone else who seems to get picked ahead of him.

Just baffles me how he doesn't get game time.

I'll agree that Lescott's positioning is as good as Vinnie's and a lot better than Nastasic at the minute.

We have plenty of ball players in the team and I'm no advocate of hoofing, but we're allowed one hoofer and the rest can deal with it.

Vinnie and Lescott for me.

panti and lescott to play all day long.

guy at work still argued nasti should play, hate to be a smart arse but its dissapointed when you call things out, hart should have been dropped last december and i raised doubts over nasti all year.

when arsenal hammered us pre season i said now the defence won't protect nasti and hart and they'll be really exposed.

the barry clanger was obvious to everyone.

i genuinely think lescott has clauses in his contract where everton need paying after X games...