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When I saw our first ten fixtures, I reckoned if we had twenty points we would be in reasonable shape. Early days yet. And I agree, it could and probably should have been different yesterday. You don't expect Serg to miss from that range. It's not like we have stopped creating.

Chelsea win today, we need the best run ever to get close to them, why are they churning out results ?. I hoped Vinny was right when he said we have learned a lot from our previous season as champs. Sorry mate we look a million miles from being current champions. Pellers despite being a double winner has to get us at it, or he will be the getting the heat, that's how it works. West Ham away is not the crap of previous years, but that's an excuse city have the players to. Sort that, we lack characters who cam ignore the noise and 100mph and take it away from teams like this. Big week now ! God forbid we do not smash the scum, and Jose is 11 clear next week, pressure wil be on him, even if it is unfair.

Great bit of football philosophy Socrates, i agree entirely with what you've said.
I'm certainly not giving up on the title whatever happens today.

I would really like to see more of the academy players being integrated to shake thing up a bit, Pozo in particular, the first team regulars need a kick up the arse.....they are too comfortable knowing they are going to be selected.

What a goal from Silva though !!!

aaron bond wrote:

hongkongbluey wrote:Wasn't the manager who bottled 50 50s. Wasn't a formation that passed the ball to wham all game. Just not playing well at the moment

It was the manager that decided to play a midfield of 4 that included 3 midfielders who don't defend. It was the manager that decided to drop Milner who has been excellent all season. It was the manager who decided to play players on perceived reputation instead of form (e.g. Clichy).

The game was lost the moment the line-up was announced. Pellegrini urgently needs to learn from his mistakes.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing ??

phips wrote:

aaron bond wrote:

hongkongbluey wrote:Wasn't the manager who bottled 50 50s. Wasn't a formation that passed the ball to wham all game. Just not playing well at the moment

It was the manager that decided to play a midfield of 4 that included 3 midfielders who don't defend. It was the manager that decided to drop Milner who has been excellent all season. It was the manager who decided to play players on perceived reputation instead of form (e.g. Clichy).
Pellegrini urgently needs to learn from his mistakes.

Plenty of people like to make fun of BFS but i found his quote to be sorta on point:

"There are two types of coaches. There’s coaches like me who weigh up the opposition and ask the team to adjust. Fergie was similar. Jose [Mourinho] is similar. Then there’s Arsene who won’t adjust. There’s Brendan [Rodgers] who looks like he won’t adjust. There’s Manuel Pellegrini who looks like he won’t adjust, even in the Champions League. He seems to favour what he’s got. City are quite open.
“Their [Wenger/Rodgers/Pellegrini] philosophy is different to ours. Ours is more about who are we playing against. Their philosophy is more ‘we always play this way’ and they won’t change, they carry doing on the same thing. That’s why you can beat them."

Whilst his general point is fine, his corollary is faulty. Someone should have pointed out to the pie-eater that his teams are also beatable, as are mourinho's. And you could beat ferguson's teams also, even 1-6 at their place.

I won't be calling for his head anytime soon as I don't see an away loss to West Ham, who are on a bit of a roll at the moment, as an awful result. We looked tired from a run of games that have included 1000s of miles travelling, including internationals, which must affect the team.

What I would ask is that after CL games, where we have a minimal squad to pick from, that he ensures he gives those players the break if needed, not play them game after game and at least turn it up with some fresh legs. Fernando is not the answer to our defensive cover for me and the fact that Jovetic is getting little play when we can play him near enough anywhere across the midfield line is quite telling to Pellers mentality.

Saying that, we could've won yesterday and the Hammers did well to keep us out. They took their chances and a lot of credit has to go to BFS for setting them up in a way that made the best of their squad. What were the stats again, 70% Possession, 21 Shots, 5 On Target with 3 hitting the post. Not bad stats by any stretch of the imagination, just a lack of clinical finishing and opposition who were stubborn to the last.

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:

aaron bond wrote:

hongkongbluey wrote:Wasn't the manager who bottled 50 50s. Wasn't a formation that passed the ball to wham all game. Just not playing well at the moment

It was the manager that decided to play a midfield of 4 that included 3 midfielders who don't defend. It was the manager that decided to drop Milner who has been excellent all season. It was the manager who decided to play players on perceived reputation instead of form (e.g. Clichy).

The game was lost the moment the line-up was announced. Pellegrini urgently needs to learn from his mistakes.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing ??

We knew beforehand 3 of the 4 midfielders do not defend. We knew beforehand that Milner has been one of our best players this season. We knew beforehand that some players were in bad form.

It was a bad day at the office for Pellegrini and he needs to show that he'll learn from these situations.

There's a long way to go this season and we're still firmly in the title race. But chasing Chelsea is a different prospect to Arsenal or Liverpool and we can't afford to drop many points in the manner we did yesterday.

Peter Doherty (AGAIG) wrote:

phips wrote:

aaron bond wrote:

hongkongbluey wrote:Wasn't the manager who bottled 50 50s. Wasn't a formation that passed the ball to wham all game. Just not playing well at the moment

It was the manager that decided to play a midfield of 4 that included 3 midfielders who don't defend. It was the manager that decided to drop Milner who has been excellent all season. It was the manager who decided to play players on perceived reputation instead of form (e.g. Clichy).
Pellegrini urgently needs to learn from his mistakes.

Plenty of people like to make fun of BFS but i found his quote to be sorta on point:

"There are two types of coaches. There’s coaches like me who weigh up the opposition and ask the team to adjust. Fergie was similar. Jose [Mourinho] is similar. Then there’s Arsene who won’t adjust. There’s Brendan [Rodgers] who looks like he won’t adjust. There’s Manuel Pellegrini who looks like he won’t adjust, even in the Champions League. He seems to favour what he’s got. City are quite open.
“Their [Wenger/Rodgers/Pellegrini] philosophy is different to ours. Ours is more about who are we playing against. Their philosophy is more ‘we always play this way’ and they won’t change, they carry doing on the same thing. That’s why you can beat them."

Whilst his general point is fine, his corollary is faulty. Someone should have pointed out to the pie-eater that his teams are also beatable, as are mourinho's. And you could beat ferguson's teams also, even 1-6 at their place.

right you are. but it is worth noting that people notice that Pellegrini is stubborn and use that as a way to prepare to beat us. they know what we're gonna do before we do it. but someone like Guardiola hid his formation before the Bayern match and even tweaked it from what he put on the reported team sheet. he understands the value of tweaking the formation to the opponent. he has some section in his book where he mentions this "revelation" he had at Barca before a Real match and switched to a 3-4-3 and they dominated Real because Barca's midfield were able to sit in pockets of space where Real habitually didn't cover (or something like that)

Not particularly satisfied as of this moment. He's proving himself to be the next Wenger, coaching one system, failing to recognise his mistakes and rarely showing any signs of flexibility.

Was 13/14 an improvement on 11/12? Not really. Have we done any better in Europe? Not really. I'm not taking him for granted, you have to be of a certain standing and adhere to very high standards to manage a gifted squad like this, but eventually you will come unstuck if you don't move forward and progress with the constantly changing world of football.

A manager like Allardyce couldn't win the title with this side, he thinks he's flexible thus he could do a better job, but that really isn't the case. However, I would like a manager in the summer that recognises when a side must alter their approach. There aren't many around; Guardiola, Simeone, Ancelotti maybe, that's why I'd personally remove Pellegrini and bring in one of these managers if they became available any time soon. Until then, Pellegrini it is.

AntMcfc wrote:Not particularly satisfied as of this moment. He's proving himself to be the next Wenger, coaching one system, failing to recognise his mistakes and rarely showing any signs of flexibility.

Was 13/14 an improvement on 11/12? Not really. Have we done any better in Europe? Not really. I'm not taking him for granted, you have to be of a certain standing and adhere to very high standards to manage a gifted squad like this, but eventually you will come unstuck if you don't move forward and progress with the constantly changing world of football.

A manager like Allardyce couldn't win the title with this side, he thinks he's flexible thus he could do a better job, but that really isn't the case. However, I would like a manager in the summer that recognises when a side must alter their approach. There aren't many around; Guardiola, Simeone, Ancelotti maybe, that's why I'd personally remove Pellegrini and bring in one of these managers if they became available any time soon. Until then, Pellegrini it is.

I think 13/14 was an improvement on 11/12, as we did do the double. We also took 15 points out of 18 in the Champs League last season albeit things are not going so well this time.
I do agree though that MP does not learn from his mistakes. I have been grumbling since the charity shield at how slow he is to change things when they are so obviously wrong. The game against Roma was another example. I think he believes in his system which is fine. I also think he realised he needed another mobile and athletic midfielder and a wotld class partner with pace to play alongside VK, to make his system work. It's too early to judge Mangala and Fernsndo yet, but their success or failure may ultimately decide whether we are improving or not and where MPs future lies. As it stands, I'm happy with him and trust his judgement.

South Stand Balti wrote:

AntMcfc wrote:Not particularly satisfied as of this moment. He's proving himself to be the next Wenger, coaching one system, failing to recognise his mistakes and rarely showing any signs of flexibility.

Was 13/14 an improvement on 11/12? Not really. Have we done any better in Europe? Not really. I'm not taking him for granted, you have to be of a certain standing and adhere to very high standards to manage a gifted squad like this, but eventually you will come unstuck if you don't move forward and progress with the constantly changing world of football.

A manager like Allardyce couldn't win the title with this side, he thinks he's flexible thus he could do a better job, but that really isn't the case. However, I would like a manager in the summer that recognises when a side must alter their approach. There aren't many around; Guardiola, Simeone, Ancelotti maybe, that's why I'd personally remove Pellegrini and bring in one of these managers if they became available any time soon. Until then, Pellegrini it is.

I think 13/14 was an improvement on 11/12, as we did do the double. We also took 15 points out of 18 in the Champs League last season albeit things are not going so well this time.
I do agree though that MP does not learn from his mistakes. I have been grumbling since the charity shield at how slow he is to change things when they are so obviously wrong. The game against Roma was another example. I think he believes in his system which is fine. I also think he realised he needed another mobile and athletic midfielder and a wotld class partner with pace to play alongside VK, to make his system work. It's too early to judge Mangala and Fernsndo yet, but their success or failure may ultimately decide whether we are improving or not and where MPs future lies. As it stands, I'm happy with him and trust his judgement.

Let's be optimistic, Pellers realised that the players needed game time together and decided that the more time on the pitch, the better they would become.

'Manny Pellers Blue & White Army'

Beefymcfc wrote:

South Stand Balti wrote:

AntMcfc wrote:Not particularly satisfied as of this moment. He's proving himself to be the next Wenger, coaching one system, failing to recognise his mistakes and rarely showing any signs of flexibility.

Was 13/14 an improvement on 11/12? Not really. Have we done any better in Europe? Not really. I'm not taking him for granted, you have to be of a certain standing and adhere to very high standards to manage a gifted squad like this, but eventually you will come unstuck if you don't move forward and progress with the constantly changing world of football.

A manager like Allardyce couldn't win the title with this side, he thinks he's flexible thus he could do a better job, but that really isn't the case. However, I would like a manager in the summer that recognises when a side must alter their approach. There aren't many around; Guardiola, Simeone, Ancelotti maybe, that's why I'd personally remove Pellegrini and bring in one of these managers if they became available any time soon. Until then, Pellegrini it is.

I think 13/14 was an improvement on 11/12, as we did do the double. We also took 15 points out of 18 in the Champs League last season albeit things are not going so well this time.
I do agree though that MP does not learn from his mistakes. I have been grumbling since the charity shield at how slow he is to change things when they are so obviously wrong. The game against Roma was another example. I think he believes in his system which is fine. I also think he realised he needed another mobile and athletic midfielder and a wotld class partner with pace to play alongside VK, to make his system work. It's too early to judge Mangala and Fernsndo yet, but their success or failure may ultimately decide whether we are improving or not and where MPs future lies. As it stands, I'm happy with him and trust his judgement.

Let's be optimistic, Pellers realised that the players needed game time together and decided that the more time on the pitch, the better they would become.

'Manny Pellers Blue & White Army'

Lol....I lke it.

For all his faults being stubborn and being slow at changing things when they are not going our way, I am still a fan and am satisfied. We won two pots last year and that hasn't changed. We may win another one or two this year, we may not. But I'd rather do it with him as manager. He has more class than most of Prem put together.

That said, I think if Guardiola became available our owners would be all over him like a rash. We shall see.

If guardiola became available, I would make the switch, but not because I am unhappy with pellers. I think he's done a great job. His appointment was never a "long term" plan, if for nothing else but his age. He did reinvigorate our attacking play after seasons of increasingly ineffective stuff under mancini. He also got us the double and out of the group stage in the chumps league ...

I can blame pellers for his selection, that being said the effort level we get out of some of these players is appalling at times. The 2nd half of the moscow game, west ham, and previous games this season. I think we need a shake up with the players. There are plenty of opinions on who we need to move on, I think it's fine to say that the first to go should be the serial slackers.

Just wish he would make changes much earlier in games when its not working.

kinkylola wrote:If guardiola became available, I would make the switch, but not because I am unhappy with pellers. I think he's done a great job. His appointment was never a "long term" plan, if for nothing else but his age. He did reinvigorate our attacking play after seasons of increasingly ineffective stuff under mancini. He also got us the double and out of the group stage in the chumps league ...

I can blame pellers for his selection, that being said the effort level we get out of some of these players is appalling at times. The 2nd half of the moscow game, west ham, and previous games this season. I think we need a shake up with the players. There are plenty of opinions on who we need to move on, I think it's fine to say that the first to go should be the serial slackers.

the effort levels are pathetic at times
look at west ham on saturday or qpr last night - those guys ran their socks off and got results
we have the talent to win this league but will are getting undone in the effort stakes. (shit) teams that give 100% against us will cause us problems when we're only giving 70%

His appointment was never a "long term" plan, if for nothing else but his age.

I'm not saying you're wrong but how do you know this? Pellegrini talked about the project that he was promised like it was something every manager dreamt of. If you're right, it seems they sold him a right lie.

Cocacolajojo wrote:

His appointment was never a "long term" plan, if for nothing else but his age.

I'm not saying you're wrong but how do you know this? Pellegrini talked about the project that he was promised like it was something every manager dreamt of. If you're right, it seems they sold him a right lie.

his age is irrelevant
he's only a year older than big fat sam who still has ambitions to manage real madrid and then england before he retires

Nigels Tackle wrote:

Cocacolajojo wrote:

His appointment was never a "long term" plan, if for nothing else but his age.

I'm not saying you're wrong but how do you know this? Pellegrini talked about the project that he was promised like it was something every manager dreamt of. If you're right, it seems they sold him a right lie.

his age is irrelevant
he's only a year older than big fat sam who still has ambitions to manage real madrid and then england before he retires

Big Fat Sam might find some competition for these two jobs from everyone's favourite Manager of the Century............Brendan Bodgers.


However, all joking aside, apart from other factors which have already been flagged up on this thread, I think the single biggest problem for us is that we never replaced Negredo.

At the end of the day, whether, or not our defence is weak (and being made weaker by too much rotation ??) and whether, or not, we're too open in midfield and, whether, or not, Yaya is a fading force, being one year older from last season's pinnacle achievements, if our forwards were banging in the goals all this wouldn't matter as we'd just be outscoring the opposition.

I think many people are still not convinced of the efficacy of the Aguero-Dzeko strike combination and, last season, Negredo had the nice capability of being able to play with either of these two. Granted, he faded in the second part of last season, but by that time the team was in full flow and we were able to continue without his sizeable input, as it were.

[I'm still a big Negredo fan, by the way]

As for Pellegrini being stubborn in his views, I'd say that he is firmly committed to his attacking ideals and I, for one, am rather glad he is.

At the moment, we are not firing on all cylinders and, at times totally misfiring, but this will come right as the season progresses. Chelsea won't always be rolling over sides for fun and Costa won't go the full season without a lengthy injury spell, which will leave them very short in front of goal.

Butthead will probably spend a King's ransom in January to complete his side but all the new players will still take time to blend together so, although they will/should be contenders for the top four places, they won't win the title.

Liverpool will do nothing with the players they now have and with Bodgers as their Manager :- his shortcomings will be cruelly exposed ever more throughout this campaign and he might be lucky to survive until May, without getting the boot.

Southampton, for all their current sparkle, will be found out and will, undoubtedly, fade after Christmas because of the paucity of their squad and Everton will never be effectively in the running, as they just don't have enough good players overall. I also think Spurs can now be discounted, although they might eventually put their house in order to come through with a late run for, say, fourth spot.

As for Arsenal; well with Whinger at the helm they might even struggle to finish fourth.

Forget the Champions League, that's done and gone (and we've always got the FA Cup to play for) because, all in all, when things start to come together again and we go on a rampaging, swashbuckling run, we'll all look back and laugh at our concerns at this present time. We've got the best team, the best squad, the best Manager and the best owners in the country and, at the end of the day, our class will prevail.

Just wish Negredo was still here though.

Mikhail Chigorin wrote:Just wish Negredo was still here though.

He really wouldn't have been in help this season so far.